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Full text of "Bolshevik propaganda. Hearings before a subcommittee of the Committee on the judiciary, United States Senate, Sixty-fifth Congress, third session and thereafter, pursuant to S. Res. 439 and 469. February 11, 1919, to March 10, 1919"

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Bolshevik  propaganda. 


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S.  RES.  439  AND  469 

FEBRUARY  11,  1919,  TO  MARCH  10,  1919 

Printed  for  the  use  of  the  Committee  oh  the  Judiciary 

:!JI    i'! 






CHAELES  A.  CULBERSON,  Texas,  dmirman. 
LEE  S.  OVERMAN,  North  Carolina.  KNUTE  NELSON,  Minnesota. 


JAMES  A.  REED,  Missouri.  FRANK  B.  BRANDEGEE,  Connecticut. 

HENRY  F.  ASHURST,  Arizona.  WILLIAM  E.  BORAH,  Idaho. 

JOHN  K.  SHIELDS,  Tennessee.  ALBERT  B.  CUMMINS,  Iowa. 

THOMAS  J,  WALSH,  Montana.  MILES  POINDEXTER,  Washington. 

HOKE  SMITH,  Georgia.  LeBARON  B.  COLT,  Rhode  Island. 

WILLIAM  H.  KING,  Utah.  THOMAS  STERLING,  South  Dakota. 

JOSIAH  O.  WOLCOTT,  Delaware. 

C.  W.  JUKNEY,  Clerk. 

F.  C.  Edwaeds,  Assistant  Clerk. 


Mr.  OVERMAN,  Chair-man. 
Mr.  KING-  Mr.  NELSON. 




Text  of  resolution  authorizing  hearings 6 

Excerpts  from  testimony  of  Thomas  J.  Tunney  in  German  propaganda 

hearings 6 

Excerpts  from   testimony   of  Arclilbald  E.   Stevenson   in  German  prop- 
aganda  hearings 11 

Testimony  of  William  Chapin  Huntington 36,  67 

Testimony  of  Samuel  N.  Harper 88 

Testimony  of  George  A.  Simons 109, 141 

Testimony  of  E.  B.  Dennis 163 

Testimony  of  Robert  F.  Leonard 194, 199 

^Testimony  of  Robert  M.  Storey 229 

Testimony  in  executive  session 235 

Testimony  of  Mrs.  Catherine  Breshkovskaya 241 

Testimony  of  Rogers  Smith 252 

Testimony  of  'William  W.  Welsh 264,  267 

Testimony  of  Roger  E.  Simmons 293,  308,  339 

Letter  from  Louis  Marshall,  president  American  Jewish  Committee 378 

Statement  by  Simon  AVolf 381 

Testimony  of  Herman  Bernstein 383 

Testimony  of  Theodor  Kryshtofovich 417 

Testimony  of  Col.  Y.  S.  Hurbau 434,  447 

Testimony  of  Carl  W.  Ackerman 462 

Testimony  of  Louise  Bryant  (Mrs.  John  Reed) .       466 

Testimony  of  John  Reed 561 

Testimony  of  Albert  Rhys  Williams 603,  649 

Text  of  resolution  extending  hearings 693 

Testimony  of  Bessie  Beatty B93 

Testimony  of  Frank  Keddie 723 

Testimony  of  Raymond  Robins 763,  857, 1007 

Testimony  of  Gregor  A.  Martiuszlne 896 

Testimony  of  Frederick  H.  Hatzel 922 

Statement  of  Col.  V.  S.  Hurban 921 

Testimony  of  Oliver  M.  Sayler 933 

Testimony  of  David  R.  Francis 935 

Letter  and  statement  from  Catherine  Breshkovskaya 1032 

Matters  submitted  by  Edwin  Lowry  Humes 1034 

Documents  submitted  l)y  Senator  Sterling 1101 

Matters  submitted  by  the  Postmaster  General 1110 

Excerpt  from  "  The  German-Bolshevik  Conspiracy  " 1125 

Text  of  Bolshevik  constitution  of  July  10,  1918 1159 

Appendix,  translation  of  Bolshevik  laws 1169 



TUESDAY,  rEBBtlABT  11,  1919. 

United  States  Senate, 
Subcommittee  of  the  Committee  on  the  Judiciary, 

Washington,  D.  C. 

The  subcommittee  met,  pursuant  to  the  call  of  the  chairman,  at 
10.30  o'clock  a.  m.,  in  room  No.  226,  Senate  Office  Building,  Senator 
Lee  S.  Overman  presiding. 

Present':  Senators  Overman  (chairman).  King,  Wolcott,  Nelson, 
and  Sterling. 

The  subcommittee  had  on  February  11,  1919,  concluded  hearings, 
held  under  Senate  resolution  307,  on  the  subjects  of  pro-German 
propaganda  and  activities  of  the  United  States  -Brevpers'  Association 
and  its  allied  interests'  in  the  liquor  business,,  which  were  published  in 
two  volumes  (2,975  pages)  entitled  "Brewing  and  Liquor  Interests 
and  German  Propaganda."  Senate  resolution  307  was  passed  by  the 
Senate  on  September  19, 1918,  and  is  as  follows : 

Whereas  Honorable  A.  Mitchell  Palmer,  Custodian  of  Allen  Property,  on  or  about 
September  fourteenth  made  the  following  statement : 

"  The  facts  will  soon  ajipear  which  will  conclusively  show  that  twelve  or 
fifteen  German  brewers  of  America,  in  association  with  the  United  States 
Brewers'  Association,  furnished  the  money,  amounting  to  several  hundred 
thousand  dollars,  to  buy  a  great  newspaper  in  one  of  the  chief  cities  of  the, 
ISTation ;  and  its  publisher,  without  disclosing  whose  money  had  bought  that 
organ  of  public  opinion,  in  the  very  Capital  of  the  Nation,  in  the  shadow  of 
the  Capitol  itself,  has  been  fighting  the  battle  of  the  liquor  traffic. 

"  When  the  traffic,  doomed  though  it  is,  undertakes  and  seeks  by  these  secret 
methods  to  control  party  nominations,  party  machinery,  whole  political 
parties,  and  thereby  control  the  government  of  State  and  Nation,  it  is  time  the 
people   know  the  truth. 

"  The  organized  liquor  traffic  of  the  country  is  a  vicious  interest  because 
it  has  been  unpatriotic,  because  it  has  been  pro-German  in  its  sympathies  and 
Its  conduct.  Around  these  great  brewery  organizations  owned  by  rich  men, 
almost  all  of  them  are  of  German  birth  and  sympathy,  at  least  before  we 
entered  the  war,  has  grown  up  the  societies,  all  the  organizations  of  this 
country  intended  to  keep  young  German  immigrants  from  becoming  real 
American  citizens. 

"  It  is  around  the  sangerfests  and  sangerbunds  and  organizations  of  that 
kind,  generally  financed  by  the  rich  brewers,  that  the  young  Germans  who 
come  to  America  are  taught  to  remember,  first,  the  fatherland,  and  second, 
America  " ; 

Whereas  it  has  been  publicly  and  repeatedly  charged  against  the  United  States 
Brewers'  Association  and  allied  brewing  companies  and  interests  that  there 
is  in  the  Department  of  Justice  and  in  the  office  of  a  certain  United  States 
district   attorney   evidence   showing: 

That,  the  said  United  States  Brewers'  Association,  brewing  companies,  and 
allied  interests  have  in  recent  years  made  contributions  to  political  cam- 
paigns on  a  scale  without  precedent  in  the  political  history  of  the  country 
and  in  violation  of  the  laws  of  the  land; 

That,  in  order  to  control  legislation  in  State  and  Nation  they  have  exacted 
pledges  from  candidates  to  office,  including  Congressmen  and  United  States 
Senators,  before  election,  such  pledges  being  on  file ; 



That,  in  order  to  influence  public  opinion  to  their  ends  they  have  heavily- 
subsidized  the  public  press  and  stipulated  when  contracting  for  advertising 
space  with  the  newspapers  that  a  certain  amount  be  editorial  space,  the 
literary  material  for  the  space  being  provided  from  the  brewers'  central 
office  in  New  York ; 

That,  in  order  to  suppress  expressions  of  opinion  hostile  to  their  trade  and 
political  interests,  they  have  set  in  operation  an  extensive  system  of  boycot- 
ting of  American  manufacturers,  merchants,  railroads,  and  other  interests ; 

That,  for  the  furthering  of  their  political  enterprises,  they  have  erected  a 
political  organization  to  carry  out  their  purposes ; 

That  they  were  allied  to  powerful  suborganizations,  among  them  the 
German-American  Alliance,  whose  charter  was  revoked  by  the  unanimous 
vote  of  Congress ;  the  National  Association  of  Commerce  and  Labor ;  and  the 
JIanufacturers  and  Dealers'  Associations,  and  that  tliey  ha^e  their  ramifica- 
tions in  other  organizations  apparently  neutral  in  character ; 

That  they  have  on  file  political  surveys  of  States,  counties,  and  districts 
tabulating  the  men  and  forces  for  and  against  them,  and  that  they  have 
paid  large  sums  of  money  to  citizens  of  the  United  States  to  advocate  their 
cause  and  interests,  including  some  in  the  Government  employ ; 

That  they  have  defrauded  the  Federal  Government  by  applying  to  their 
political  corruption  funds  money  which  should  have  gone  to  the  Federal 
Treasury  in  taxes ; 

That  they  are  attempting  to  build  up  in  the  country  through  the  control  of 
such  organizations  as  the  United  States  societies  and  by  the  manipulation  of 
the  foreign  language  press,  a  political  influence  which  can  be  turned  to  one 
or  the  other  party,  thus  controlling  electoral  results ; 

That  they,  or  some  of  their  organizations,  have  pleaded  nolo  contendere  to 
charges  filed  against  them  and  have  paid  fines  aggregating  large  sums  of 
money :   Therefore,  be  it 

Resolved,  That  the  Committee  on  the  Judiciary  of  the  Senate,  or  any  subcom- 
mittee thereof,  is  hereby  authorized  and  directed  to  call  upon  the  Honorable 
A.  Mitchell  Palmer,  Alien  Property  Custodian,  and  the  Department  of  Justice 
and  its  United  States  district  attorneys  to  produce  the  evidence  and  documents 
relating  to  the  eharses  herein  mentioned,  and  to  subpoena  any  witnesses  or 
documents  relating  thereto  that  it  may  find  necessary,  and  to  make  a  report  of 
the  results  of  such  investigation  and  what  is  shown  thereby  to  the  Senate  of  the 
United  States  as  promptly  as  possible. 

The  present  hearings  are  held  under  the  following  resolution 
(S.  Ees.  439)  passed  by  the  Senate  on  February  4, 1919 : 

Resolved,  That  the  authority  of  the  Committee  on  the  Judiciary  conferred  by 
S.  Res.  307  be,  and  the  same  hereby  is,  extended  so  as  to  include  the  power  and 
duty  to  inquire  concerning  any  efforts  being  made  to  propagate  in  this  country 
the  principles  of  any  party  exercising  or  claiming  to  exercise  authority  in 
Russia,  whether  such  efforts  originate  in  this  country  or  are  incited  or  financed 
from  abroad,  and,  further,  to  inquire  into  any  effort  to  incite  the  overthrow  of 
the  Government  of  this  country  or  all  government  by  force,  or  by  the  destruc- 
tion of  life  or  property,  or  the  general  cessation  of  industry. 

Maj.  Edwin  Lowry  Humes,  of  the  Judge  Advocate  General's 
Department,  United  States  Army,  detailed  by  the  "War  Department 
to  assist  the  subcommittee  in  the  hearings  held  under  Senate  resolu- 
tion 307,  appeared  as  counsel  for  the  subcommittee  in  the  present 

(The  following  excerpts  from  the  testimony  of  Mr.  Thomas  J. 
Tunney,  an  inspector  of  police,  police  department  New  York  City, 
before  this  subcommittee  on  Tuesday,  January  21,  1919,  pages  2679- 
2681  and  2684-2687  of  Volume  II  of  the  hearings  entitled  "  Brewing 
and  Liquor  Interests  and  German  Propaganda,"  were  ordered  in- 
serted in  this  record  at  this  point :) 

Mr.  TuNNET.  *  *  *  We  apprehended  and  secured  evidence  against  Emma 
Goldman  and  Alexander  Berkman,  and  they  were  subsequently  convicted  for 
trying  to  defeat  the  selective-draft  act. 


Senator  Overman.  Did  you  find  a  list  of  those  people?     . 

Mr.  TuNNEY.  Yes;  we  found  this  original  letter  that  was  used  in  the  testi- 
mony in  the  Hindu  case  in  San  Francisco,  and  was  also  used  against  Emma 
Goldman  and  Alexander  Berkman  in  the  trial  in  New  York. 

Senator  Oveeman.  Where  is  Emma  Goldman  now? 

Mr.  TuNNET.  She  is  in  prison  at  Jefferson  City,  Mo. 

Senator  Nelson.  In  a  safe  place? 

Mr.  TuNNEY.  Yes.  She  was  ordered  by  the  trial  judge  to  be  deported  after 
her  term  expires — both  she  and  Berkman. 

Senator  Overman.  What  Is  her  native  country? 

Mr.  TuNNEY.  I  think  she  is  a  native  of  Russia. 

Senator  Overman.  She  is  ordered  by  the  court  to  be  deported  after  her  term 
is  up? 

Mr.  TuNNEY.  Yes;  that  was  ordered  by  the  trial  judge  with  regard  to  both 
Emma  Goldman  and  Alexander  Berkman.  There  was  some  doubt  as  to  whether 
she  was  married  to  an  American  citizen  or  not. 

Senator  Overman.  What  age  woman  is  she? 

Mr.  TuNNEY.  She  is  a  woman  about  46  years  of  age ;  a  very  able  and  Intelli- 
gent woman  and  a  very  fine  speaker. 

Senator  Overman.  I  know  something  about  her,  of  course.  How  long  has 
she  been  in  this  country? 

Mr.  TuNNEY.  Nearly  30  years. 

Senator  Overman.  She  is  a  fine  speaker,  you  say? 

Mr.  TuNNEY.  Yes ;  she  is  a  very  fine  speaker. 

Senator  Nelson.  She  speaks  good  English? 

Jlr.  TuNNEY.  She  speaks  English  very  fluently.  In  fact,  I  have  heard  news- 
paper men  say  that  she  is  a  master  of  the  English  language.  She  and  Berkman 
defended  themselves  on  their  trial,  and  they  put  in  a  very  able  defense,  and 
their  cross-examination  of  the  prospective  jurors  was  particularly  noticeable. 

Senator  Overman.  Is  she  a  handsome  woman? 

Mr.  TuNNEY.  No ;  she  is  not.  I  would  not  call  her  a  very  homely  looking 
woman,  either.  She  was  a  rather  good-looking  woman  when  she  was  young. 
She  is  a  very  stout  woman. 

Leon  Trotsky,  before  he  left  New  York,  was  a  great  associate  of  Emma  Gold- 
man and  Alexander  Berkman. 

Senator  Overman.  That  is  the  Russian  leader? 

Mr.  TuNNEY.  Yes. 

He  called  a  meeting  of  the  German  socialists  and  Russians  at  the  Harlem 
River  Park  Casino,  at  One  hundred  and  twenty-second  Street  and  Second 
Avenue,  on  the  night  of  March  26,  1917,  after  the  breaking  oJ¥  of  the  diplomatic 
relations  between  the  United  States  and  Germany,  and  he  spoke  in  both  German 
and  Russian  that  night,  and  this  was  the  substance  of  his  speech. 

Senator  Sterling.  Who  is  that? 

Mr.  TuNNEY.  Leon  Trotsky. 

Senator  Overman.  The  foreign  minister  of  the  Bolsheviki. 

Mr.  Tunney.  He  said :  "  I  am  going  back  to  Russia  " — he  was  going  the  next 
morning  with  about  35  or  40  of  his  associates,  the  names  of  whom,  I  believe, 
the  Military  Intelligence  has.  There  was  a  report  submitted  to  Gen.  Churchill, 
and  previous  to  that  to  Col.  Van  Deman.     He  said : 

"  I  am  going  back  to  Russia  to  overthrow  the  provisional  government  and 
stop  the  war  with  Germany  and  allow  no  Interference  from  any  outside  govern- 

And  he  said : 

"  I  want  you  people  here  to  organize  and  keep  on  organizing  until  you  are 
able  to  overthrow  this  damned,  rotten,  capitalistic  Government  of  this  country." 

He  did  leave  the  next  morning,  with  his  followers,  on  the  Norwegian- 
American  Line ;  and  from  that  date  until  June  1  about  450  Russians  left,  with 
various  leaders,  and  they  also  went  back  there  to  roast  the  American  commis- 
sion that  was  over  there  at  that  time. 

Two  of  the  men  who  are  now  in  the  government  over  there  were  connected 
with  newspaper  publications  in  New  York.  One  of  them  was  named  William 
Schatoff,  and  is  commissioner  of  railroads. 

Senator  Nelson.  Commissioner  of  railroads  where? 

Mr.  Tunney.  In  Russia,  now.  Also,  I  understand,  he  is  the  new  executioner 
there  in  the  place  of  Uritski,  who  was  assassinated  by  a  woman  some  time  ago 
in  St.  Petersburg. 


There  were  some  American  boys  coming  out  of  St.  Petersburg,  and  one  of 
them  told  me  that  he  came  up  to  them  and  spoke  English  to  them,  and  said  to 
give  his  regards  to  Broadway,  and  had  the  train  go  back  to  St.  Petersburg, 
and  kept  them  there  until  the  next  morning. 

The  other  fellow,  Wallen,  was  connected  with  the  publications  Novymlr  and 
Golatruda,  Russian  publications. 

Senator  NELS0^^  Russian  publications  in  this  country? 

Mr.  TuNNET.  Yes. 

Senator  Sterling.  Who  else,  may  I  ask.  Inspector,  accompanied  Trotsky  at 
this  time? 

Mr.  TuNNEY,  I  can  not  tell  you  the  names.  Senator,  but  the  Military  Intelli- 
gence has  a  complete  list  of  them,  or  a  copy  of  them.  I  can  get  a  copy  if  they 
have  not,  from  New  York. 

Senator  Steeling.  Did  Lincoln  Steffens  accompany  them? 

Mr.  TuNNET.  No ;  no  Americans  accompanied  them  at  that  time.  They  were 
all  Russians,  but  they  were  well-known  anarchists,  well  known  to  some  of  my 

Senator  Overman.  I  wish  you  would  repeat  the  statement  that  Trotsky  made 
to  them  before  lie  left  this  country. 

Mr.  Tunnet.  He  said  to  keep  on  their  organization  here  and  they  would 
overthrow  the  Government  of  this  country. 

Senator  Nelson.  And  knock  out  the  capitalists? 

Mr.  TuNNEY.  Yes.  He  called  It  the  "  damned,  rotten,  capitalistic  Govern- 
ment.''    Those  are  the  words  that  he  used. 

Senator  Overman.  Capitalistic  Government? 

Mr.  TuNNEY.  Yes. 

Senator  Ovekman.  Do  you  know  whether  they  followed  his  ad\ice,  or  whether 
they  are  going  on  with  that  work? 

Mr.  TuNNEY^.  Yes.  I  would  not  say  that  it  is  very  effective,  but  that  is  Ihe 
talk  amongst  a  lot  of  the  same  folloAvers  now,  sometimes  in  public  and  some- 
times in  secret  conferences  that  they  have. 

Senator  Nelson.  You  have  a  nest  of  those  anarchists  yet  in  New  York,  have 
you  not? 

Sir.  TuNNEY.  Yes,  Senator ;  there  are  a  lot  of  them  there  yet.  I  might  say 
that  five  of  them  were,  subsequent  to  the  conviction  of  Emma  Goldman  and 
Alexander  Berkman,  apprehended  for  abusing  the  President  and  the  Govern- 
ment of  the  United  States,  and  in  .Tune  they  were  convicted  of  violating  the 
espionage  act ;  and  they  were  followers  of  Emma  Goldman  and  were  sentenced 
to  20  years  apiece.    That  was  .lust  a  few  months  ago. 

Senator  Overman.  What  was  Trotsky  doing  in  this  country  before? 

Mr.  TuNNEY.  He  was  ahvays  talking  to  the  Russians  on  organization.  He 
was  connected  with  that  ne^^•spape^  publication,  the  Novymir,  and  was  very 
ofteH  delivering  lectures  both  to  Russians  and  Germans  on  anarchy  while  he 
was  here — radical  socialism.    He  believed  in  the  overthrow  of  all  governments. 

Senator  Nelson.  He  spoke  German  as  well  as  Russian? 

Mr.  TuNNEY.  Yes;  very  fluently. 

Senator  Nelson.  What  was  his  nationality? 

Mr.  TuNNEY.  He  is  a  Russian. 

Senator  Nelson.  AVas  he  a  Slav  or  a  German? 

Mr.  TuNNEY'.  He  is  a  Russian. 

Senator  Nelson.  A  Russian? 

Mr.  TuNNEY'.  A  Russian  .Tew ;  but  they  do  not  believe  in  any  religion,  of 
course.  They  are  just  as  much  opposed  to  the  Jewish  religion  as  any  other. 
They  call  themselves  "  Internationalists." 

Senator  Overman.  Did  he  speak  English  as  well  as  Russian  and  German? 

Mr.  TuNNEY.  He  spoke  very  little  English. 

Maj.  Humes.  You  say  that  these  followers  of  Emma  Goldman  and  Alexander 
Berkman  were  convicted  and  sentenced  to  20  years? 

Mr.  TuNNEY.  Yes. 

Maj.  Humes.  Do  you  remember  what  the  sentence  was  that  was  imposed  on 
Emnta  Goldman  and  Berkman? 

Mr.  TuNNEY.  They  were  sentenced  to  two  years  each,  which  was  the  maxi- 
mum sentence  under  the  law  at  that  time,  the  espionage  act  not  being  at  that 
time  in  effect. 

I  also  remember  that  the  sentence  imposed  on  the  bomb  plotters  was  a  year 
and  a  half  each,  which  was  the  maximum  sentence  under  the  law  at  that  time ; 
and  then  it  was  a  subterfuge  to  get  to  try  them  under  that,  because  it  was  never 


intended  for  criminals,  but  for  legitimate  shippers  of  explosives — in  other  words, 
that  they  should  notify  the  common  carriers  that  they  were  shipping  explosises 
and  comply  with  the  Federal  laws  on  that  subject. 

It  *  «  4;  3((  4:  * 

Maj.  Humes.  What  do  you  know  about  activities,  since  the  armistice,  on  the 
part  of  these  people,  the  anarchists  and  others? 

Mr.  TUNNEY.  They  are  very  active.  They  hold  secret  meetings  and  they  plan 
to  organize  and  disseminate  propaganda  by  means  of  newspapers,  small 
pamphlets,  and  letters,  and  later  on  adopt  other  methods,  which  they  have  not 
decided  on  up  to  the  present  time. 

Senator  Stealing.  Is  there  evidence  of  renewed  activity  ou  the  part  of  these 
anarchists,  Mr.  Tunney,  since  the  armistice  was  signed? 

Mr.  Tunney.  There  is.  Senator ;  there  is  evidence,  but  hardly  sufficient  to 
proceed  against  them  up  to  the  present  time,  with  the  right  kind  of  witnesses. 
You  sometimes  get  this  information  direct  from  a  secret  agent  that  you  can  not 
get  him  to  testify  to,  because  it  takes  years  to  get  on  the  inside  to  find  out  cer- 
tain things.  You  destroy  his  evidence  after  you  use  it  in  one  case,  and  probably 
jeopardize  his  life.  Sometimes  people  think  a  man's  life  does  not  amount  to 
much  if  he  accomplishes  a  whole  lot  of  good ;  that  is,  a  man  is  willing  to  give 
up  his  life  for  the  cause  of  his  country. 

Maj.  Humes.  Do  you  know  anything  about  the  activities  of  Lenine  in  this 

Mr.  Tunney.  No  ;  I  never  found  any  of  Lenine's  connection  here,  never ;  but 
I  do  know  about  Trotsky  and  the  other  people. 

Senator  Nelson.  How  old  a  man  was  Trotsky? 

Mr.  TUiXNEY.  I  should  judge  Trotsky  was  a  man,  when  he  left  here,  of  about 
35  years  of  age. 

Senator  Nelson.  What  was  his  appearance? 

Mr.  Tunney.  He  was  a  typical  Russian ;  black,  bushy,  curly  hair,  and  very 
radical  looking  in  appearance  as  well  as  in  speech. 

Senator  Nelson. 'Was  he  a  tall  man  or  a  short  man? 

Mr.  Tunney.  No  ;  he  was  of  medium  height.  I  should  judge  he  was  about 
5  feet  6  or  5  feet  7. 

Senator  Overman.  Was  he  employed  In  the  hotels? 

Mr.  Tunney.  No.  I  have  heard  that  story.  He  used  to  write  articles  and 
probably  did  take  on  different  jobs.  I  think  he  used  to  write  articles  for  various 
Russian  newspapers  here. 

Senator  Overman.  Did  he  have  any  other  employment? 

Mr.  Tunney.  Not  that  I  know  of. 

Senator  Overman.  How  long  was  he  in  this  country? 

Mr.  Tunney.  He  was  only  in  New  York  for  a  few  months  before  he  left. 
He  had  traveled  somewhat  through  the  United  States.  What  he  did  in  the 
other  cities  I  do  not  know.    I  know  only  what  he  did  in  New  York. 

Senator  Steeling.  Did  your  activities  lead  you  to  investigate  any  newspapers 
in  New  York  or  anywhere  else? 

Mr.  Tunney.  No ;  no  direct  investigation.  From  time  to  time  those  foreign 
newspaper  investigations  were  turned  over  to  men  who  understood  the  language. 

Senator  Nelson.  Did  you  ever  do  anything  in  connection  with  Viereck's 
"  Fatherland"  ? 

Mr.  Tunney.  No  ;  I  did  not. 

Senator  Overman.  Who  owns  the  paper  now  that  Trotsky  was  connected 

Mr.  Tunney.  Weinstein  is  one  of  the  editors,  and  a  fellow  by  the  name  of 

Senator  Overman.  Really  the  same  man  thrt  owned  it  when  Trotsky 

Mr.  Tunney.  Weinstein  was  associated  with  Trotsky  in  running  it  at  the 
time  Trotsky  was  here. 

Senator  Overman.  And  he  is  now  running  it? 

Mr.  Tunney.  Yes ;  he  is  now  running  that  paper. 

Senator  Sterling.  Did  you  at  that  time  seize  or  take  into  j'our  possession,  Mr. 
Tunney,  any  material  at  newspaper  offices  which  was  meant  for  publication  in 
newspapers  of  an  anarchistic  nature? 

Mr.  Tunney.  You  mean  in  the  American  newspapers,  Senator? 

Senator  Sterling.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tunney.  No  ;  I  did  not,  with  the  exception  of  Emma  Goldman's  "  Blother 
Earth,"  and  tlie  "  Blast,"  which  were  published  in-Englrnd — two  anarchistic  pub- 


lications.     In  fact,  I  never  found  any  of  the  American  or  the  English  papers 
connected  with  this  movement  at  all. 

Senator  Nelson.  Did  Trotsky  appear  to  be  a  man  of  education  or  ability? 
Mr.  TuNNEY.  That  was  his  reputation  among  the  Russian  people  who  speak,  that  he  was  a  man  of  ability  among  his  own  people,  and  quite  a  leader 
of  men. 

Senator  Steeling.  Did  you  ever  hear  him  speak,  yourself? 
Mr.  TUNNEY.  I  did  not.  Senator.  I  saw  him,  though.  But  this  information, 
that  I  am  testifying  to,  was  by  one  of  my  o^^•n  men,  not  a  stool  pigeon,  but  a 
policeman  who  secured  this  information  that  I  have  testified  to,  and  upon 
which  he  based  his  reports  at  that  time.  That  was  turned  over  at  that  time 
to  the  Military  Intelligence,  shortly  after  he  made  his  speech,  and  I  think  they 
turned  it  over  to  the  State  Department.  That  is  on  information,  however.  I  do 
know  Trotsky  was  taken  nff  the  steamer  at  Halifax  and  detained  for  a  couple 
of  weeks.  And  while  he  was  detained  there  people  in  New  Y(]rk  held  a  protest 
meeting  and  demanded  his  release,  and  I  think  they  sent  a  telegram  to  the 
State  Department  in  Washington  at  that  time — some  of  the  other  radicals  did — 
and  some  time  subsequent  to  that  he  was  released. 

Senator  Overman.  AVhat  was  the  size  of  the  meeting,  do  you  remember,  that 
made  the  protest  ? 

Mr.  TuNNEY.  There  were  about  400  or  500  present.  It  was  in  a  place  called 
the  Lyceum.  64  East  Fourth  Street.  New  York.  It  was  in  April,  1917.  after  the 
declaration  of  war.  But  there  were  over  1,000  present  at  the  meeting  the  night 
before  he  sailed  from  New  York,  at  the  Harlem  River  Park  Casino.  Emma 
Goldman  and  Berkman  were  also  present  that  nit;lit  and  listened  to  him  speak, 
f'apt.  Lester.  Do  yon  know  how  long  Trotsky  was  in  this  country  altogether? 
Mr.  Tt'NNEY.  No :  I  know  he  was  in  New  York  only  a  few  months.  I  do  not 
know  how  long  he  was  in  this  country  altogether. 

Senator  ()vee:man.  Do  you  know  who  presided  over  that  big  meeting  in  which 
he  made  a  speech? 

I\Ir.  TUNNEY.  ^Vho  was  the  chairman,  do  you  mean? 
Senator  Ovekman.  Yes. 

Mr.  TuNNEY.  I  really  do  not  know,  but  I  think  it  was  a  man  named  Abra- 
hams, who  was  subsequently  convicted  and  sentenced  to  prison  for  20  years  for 
violation  of  the  espionage  act.  But  I  can  find  that  out,  I  can  get  the  names 
of  those  A^ho  were  there. 

Senator  Overman.  Did  you  have  occasion  to  investigate  the  I.  W.  W.  any? 
Mr.  TuNKEY.  Yes ;  in  the  early  part  of  the  European  war  they  were  making 
a  bomb  to  kill  a  couple  of  men  here  in  the  United  States — three  of  the  I.  W.  W's. 
who  were  also  associated  with  the  anarchistic  movement.  Those  men  were 
Carron.  Berg,  and  Hanson.  While  making  this  bomb  it  prematurely  exploded 
and  killed  themselves,  in  an  apartment  house.  One  hundred  and  fourth  Street. 
It  blew  the  front  out  of  the  building  and  killed  the  three  of  them,  and  killed 
a  woman  up  on  the  next  floor.  I  might  add  that  this  fellovir  Berg  had  a  sister 
known  as  Louise  Berg,  also  referred  to  as  "  Dynamite  Louise,"  who  went  back 
shortly  after  Trotsky,  with  one  or  the  other  Russian  bunch,  to  blow  up  some 
of  the  officials  in  Russia. 

Senatoi-  Overman.  Berg  was  one  of  the  three  conspirators  engaged  in  the 
manufactui-e  of  bombs? 

Mr.  TuNNEY.  Yes.  There  was  a  conspiracy  to  kill  three  prominent  men  in 
this  country  at  one  time,  and  as  many  thereafter  as  they  could. 

Senator  (Overman.  Do  you  know  who  were  the  prominent  men  they  had  in 

Mr.  TuNNEY.  I  do. 
Senator  Overman.  Who  were  they? 

Mr.  TuNNEY.  John  D.  Rockefeller,  sr.,  and  John  D.  Rockefeller,  jr.  It  was 
also  discussed  amongst  them  at  that  time  that  in  order  to  wipe  out  families 
there  was  no  good  in  killing  one  or  two  in  the  family,  that  they  should  kill 
them  all,  even  to  the  children,  and  they  used  to  talk  from  that  time  that  the 
best  way  to  do  it  was  to  get  servants  in  the  employ  of  the  households  of  these 
prominent  men,  so  as  to  get  a  line  exactly  on  what  the  family  was  composed 
of  and  what  it  consisted  of. 

Senator  Overman.  Have  you  noticed  the  carrying  of  the  red  flag  in  New, 


Mr.  TuNNEY.  No ;  they  stopped  carrying  that.  They  passed  a  local  ordinance 
prohibiting  its  being  carried.    They  used  to  carry  it  at  all  meetings. 

Senator  Overman.  What  effect  does  that  red  flag  have  on  a  crowd? 


Mr.  TuNNEY.  It  has  the  effect  of  creating  a  feeling  on  the  part  of  Americans 
that  they  would  like  to  assassinate  everybody  carrying  the  red  flag;  or  at 
least,  a  large  number  of  them  feel  that  way. 

Senator  Overman.  What  effect  does  it  have  on  the  people  who  are  in  sym- 
pathy with  carrying  the  red  flag? 

Mr.   Ttjnney.  It  simply   enthuses  them,   and  they   indulge  in  cheering  and   , 
waviug  it  in  the  air. 

Senator  Ovebman.  It  inflames  them? 

Mr.  TuNNEY.  Yes;  and  all  those  who  are  in  sympathy  with  (hem.  As  soon 
as  the  carrying  of  the  red  flag  was  stopped  they  started  in  to  \Aear  red  neckties 
and  sometimes  red  flowers  in  their  button  holes. 

Senator  Nelson.  Do  you  not  think  that  the  carrying  of  the  red  flag  tends  to 
promote  breaches  of  the  p'.>ace? 

Mr.  TuNNEY.  It  does ;  because  it  antagonizes  Americans  who  are  opposed  to 
them,  and  naturally  there  is  a  conflict  right  away.  Americans  claim  they  only 
want  one  flag  here,  and  th  it  is  the  Stars  and  Stripes. 

Seantor  Steeling.  The  red  flag  is  usually  understood  to  be  the  emblem  of 
anarchy  ? 

Mr.  TuNNEY.  Yes ;  it  is  the  emblem  of  anarchy.  They  sometimes  call  it 
Internationalism.  There  are  some  modern  Socialists  who  do  not  believe  in  the 
red  flag.  The  radical  Socialists  do  not  believe  in  any  form  of  government  at 
all ;  their  motto  is,  "  Do  as  you  like,"  and  everybody  do  the  same ;  they  have  no 
regard  for  law,  and  they  do  not  believe  in  law. 

Senator  Overman.  One  of  their  creeds  is  "  Down  with  capital  "  ? 

Mr.  TuNNEY.  "  Down  with  capital  and  Government."  They  claim  capital  is 
responsible  for  all  government.  They  blame  the  churches  for  standing  in  their 
way.  They  sometimes  say  they  would  like  to  destroy  the  churches.  I  met  a 
man  one  night  some  time  ago  who  claimed  the  only  way  to  destroy  every  build- 
ing was  to  blow  it  down  with  dynamite.  There  was  another  man  present  who 
said  he  did  not  believe  in  destroying  buildings  of  ai't  and  science  and  where 
literature  vras  kept,  but  all  other  buildings  he  would  destroy.  He  differed  to 
that  extent  from  the  other  fellow.. 

Senator  Nelson.  How  many  of  those  anarchists  and  those  radicals,  I.  W.  W.'s 
and  anarchists,  have  you  in  New  York?  As  nearly  as  you  can  tell,  how  many 
are  there? 

Mr.  Tunney.  Do  you  mean.  Senator,  who  belong  to  organizations  or  associ- 

Senator  Nelson.  No  ;  I  mean  that  belong  to  such  organizations  or  believe 
in  that  gospel. 

Senator  Overman.  Who  sympathize  with  them. 

Senator  Nelson.  Yes ;  who  sympathize  with  them. 

Mr.  Tunney.  I  believe  there  are  12,000  or  15,000  in  New  York.  I  mean  those 
who  sympathize  with  the  real  radical  movement.  I  should  say  we  probably 
have  50,000  who  more  or  less  sympathize  with  them. 

Senator  Nelson.  They  are  mostly  foreigners,  are  they  not? 

Mr.  Tunney.  Mostly  foreigners. 

Senator  Nelson.  From  what  part  of  the  old  country? 

Mr.  Tunney.  The  three  principal  nationalities  that  they  represent  are  Rus- 
sians, Spaniards — I  am  talking  now  about  the  anarchist  group — and  the  Italians, 
mixed  up  with  some  Germans.  There  are  a  few  radical  Irishmen  and  English- 
men and  a  few  Americans.  There  are  very  few  of  these  English-speaking  people 
with  the  exception  of — well,  there  is  a  very  small  percentage  of  them  that  mix 
up  with  the  real  anarchistic  groups. 

Senator  Nelson.  Are  there  many  Americans  mixed  up  with  them? 

Mr.  Tunney.  Very  few. 

(The  following  excerpts  from  the  testimony  of  Mr.  Archibald  E. 
Stevenson,  in  Volume  II  of  the  hearings  before  the  same  subcommit- 
tee entitled  "Brewing  and  Liquor  Interests  and  German  Propa- 
ganda," were  ordered  inserted  in  this  record:) 

[From  testimony  taken  on  Wednesaay,  January  22,  1919,  pages  2715,  2716,  2717,  and 

Mr.  Stevenson.  *  *  *  With  the  declaration  of  war  by  the  United  States 
the  raison  d'§tre  for  the  Emergency  Peace  Federation  and  the  American  Neutral 
Conference  CJommittee  ceased  to  exist,  and  they  became  defunct. 

12  BOLSHEVIK  pkopaga:sda. 

However,  the  movement  continued  to  become  more  radical,  and  on  August 
4,  1917,  the  I'eoplt's  Council  of  America  for  Democracy  and  Peace  was  organ- 
ized, with  offices  at  2  AVest  Thirteenth  Street,  New  York  City. 

Among  the  officers  and  executive  committee  are  found  Louis  P.  Lochner, 
Leila  Faye  Secor,  Rebecca  Shelley,  Scott  Xearing,  Jacob  Panken — who,  by  the 
way,  is  an  extremely  radical  speaker,  and  a  judge  of  the  municipal  court  in  New 
York  City  ;  Aigern  in  Lee.  socialist  alderman,  New  York  City ;  5Iax  Eastman ; 
Emily  Greene  BaU  h  ;  Judah  L.  Magnes  ;  Morris  Hillquit ;  Eugene  V.  Debs,  who 
is  now  serving  a  sentence  for  violation  of  the  espionage  act ;  Irving  St.  John 
Tucker,  who  was  just  convicted  with  Victor  Berger  for  violation  of  the  same 
act ;  and  the  treasurer  of  tliis  organization  is  David  Starr  Jordan. 

The  advent  of  organization  was  hailed  with  enthusiasm  by  the  German 
propagandists,  and  wide  publicity  was  given  to  it  in  the  German  organs,  such 
as  Issues  and  Events,  The  Fatherland,  etc. 

The  object,  of  course,  was  to  discourage  the  military  activities  of  the 
United  States  and  to  bring  about  peace. 

In  a  telegram  which  was  sent  by  Leila  Faye  Secor  to  President  Wilson  they 
stated  that  their  membership  is  1,800,000. 

Senator  Nelson.  Evidently  these  organizations  were  all  in  opposition  to 
Gen.  Pershing's  organization  over  in  France? 

Mr.  Ste\tsxson.  That  is  certainly  the  impression  that  one  might  get, 

This  telegram  to  President  Wilson  states : 

"  The  organizing  committee  of  the  Peojile's  Council  of  America,  now  repre- 
senting 1,800,000  consituents,  believe  that  a  combination  of  world  events  makes 
it  Imperative  that  Congress  speak  in  no  uncertain  terms  on  the  question  of 
peace  and  war." 

Senator  Wolcott.  What  is  the  date  of  that  telegram? 

Mr.  Steve>:son.  This  was  in  August,  1917. 

Senator  Nelsox.  After  we  entered  the  war? 

Senator  Wolcott.  After  Congress  had  spoken. 

Senator  Nelson.  Yes ;  we  spoke  in  April,  did  we  not? 

Senator  Wolcott.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stevenson   (continuing  reading)  : 

"  The  eminent  position  of  our  country  among  the  Allies  and  the  democratic 
members  of  our  Government,  and  the  lives  and  the  future  happiness  of  the 
young  manhood  of  our  Nation  all  demand  that  Congress  should  no  longer  re- 
main silent  and  inactive  on  what  is  now  the  supreme  interest  of  mankind, 
how  to  bring  a  just  and  lasting  peace  into  the  world.     *     *     * 

"  The  Russian  people  are  united  for  peace,  based  on  the  formula  which  is 
gaining  acceptance  everywhere :  No  forcible  annexations,  no  punitive  indem- 
nities, and  free  development  for  all  nationalities.     *     *     *  " 

Senator  Wolcott.  They  might  also  have  added :  "And  victory  for  Ger- 
many "? 

Mr.  Stevenson  (continuing  reading)  : 

"  Thus  we  have  the  representative  assemblies  of  Russia,  Germany,  and  Eng- 
land debating  peace  terms  while  only  the  American  Congress  remains  sijent 
in  this  fateful  war. 

"  Forward-looking  men  and  women  throughout  the  world  are  looking  expect- 
antly to  Congress.    Democracy  is  shamed  by  your  silence." 

That  was  a  telegram  addressed  by  this  organization  to  President  Wilson 
personally.  This  organization  is  still  in  operation,  and  they  held  a  dinner  last 
Monday  evening  in  New  York  City,  at  which  Scott  Nearing  presided,  and  they 
determined  to  flood  the  country  with  handbill  propaganda,  because  their  litera- 
ture has  been  denied  the  use  of  the  mails. 

Senator  Wolcott.  What  have  they  in  mind  now?  What  is  the  nature  of 
their  propaganda  now? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  They  are  taking  up  the  league  of  nations.  They  are  seeking 
the  amnesty  of  all  political  prisoners.  They  do  not  want  any  military  estab- 
lishment here.  It  is  a  very  mixed  type  of  propaganda.  I  do  not  know  exactly 
what  they  are  doing. 

Senator  King.  It  is  practically  the  overthrow  of  our  republican  form  of 
government,  and  the  establishment  of  a^ 

Senator  Nelson.  Bolshevik  government? 


Senator  King.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  There  are  a  large  number  of  persons  connected  with  tlils 
organization  that  sympathize  with  the  Bolshevik  and  Soviet  form  of  govern- 

Senator  King.  Class  government  is  what  they  want. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  think  we  shall  have  to  wait  until  we  see  their  propaganda 
before  we  know  exactly  what  they  are  doing. 

Senator  Wolcott.  There's  no  telling  what  they  are  going  to  do? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  do  not  think  so. 

The  outgrowth  of  this  People's  Council  was  the  Liberty  Defense  Union,  with 
offices  at  138  West  Thirteenth  Street,  New  York  City,  in  which  there  is  a 
curious  mixture  of  intelligentsia  and  anarchists,  radical  socialists  and- 

Senator  Wolcott.  What  do  you  men  by  "intelligentsia" — intellectuals? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Intellectuals. 

Senator  Nelson.  Senator,  it  means  those  anarchists  who  confine  their  opera- 
tions to  brain  storms  and  not  to  physical  force. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Among  the  members  of  this  organization  were  the  Rev.  John 
Haynes  Holmes ;  Scott  Nearing ;  Elizabeth  Gurley  Flinn,  who  is  well  known  as 
an  I.  W.  W. ;  Max  Eastman ;  Kate  Richards  O'Hare — and,  by  the  way,  there  is 
an  extremely  interesting  connection.  Kate  Richards  O'Hare  is  now  serving  a 
sentence  for  violation  of  the  espionage  act,  but  she  was  an  associate  of  Nicho- 
las Lenine  in  the  International  Bureau,  the  People's  House,  in  Brussels  before 
the  war,  in  1914. 

Senator  Wolcott.  This  question  has  been  running  through  my  mind,  Mr. 
Stevenson :  Is  it  not  a  fact  that  these  people,  after  all  their  efforts  and  agitation 
and  the  expenditure  of  a  great  deal  of  labor  and  emotional  energy,  after  all 
did  not  make  any  kind  of  an  impression  at  all  on  the  plain,  common-sense  Amer- 
ican people — speaking  by  and  large,  I  mean ;  they  did  not  make  any  dents,  did 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  think  if  you  really  mean  the  American  people,  I  should 
say  no.  Senator. 

Senator  Wolcott.  That  is  what  I  mean.  I  mean  the  ordinary  American 

Mr.  Stevenson.  But  it  is  a  fact  that 

Senator  Wolcott.  Of  course,  they  can  make  some  trouble  here  and  there  in 
spots ;  but,  taking  the  great  body  of  the  American  people,  were  they  not  too 
level  headed  to  be  influenced  by  this  outfit? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  We  must  remember.  Senator,  that  the  American  people — - 
and  by  that  I  mean  really  American  people — are  not  present  in  very  large  num- 
bers in  our  industrial  centers.  They  have  made  a  very  great  impression  on  the 
foreign  element,  which  we  will  develop  in  the  progress  of  the  radical  movement. 

I  have  brought  in  this  pacifist  movement  in  this  way  because  of  its  direct 
connection  with  the  subsequent  radical  movement,  which  is  the  thing  which  is 
of  most  importance  before  the  country  to-day. 

In  connection  with  this  Liberty  Defense  Union,  Amos  Pinchot  was  also  a 
member ;  Eugene  V.  Debs ;  Henry  Wadsworth  Dana,  a  late  professor  of  Colum- 
bia University ;  David  Starr  Jordan ;  Abram  Shiplacoff,  a  Socialist  assembly- 
man in  New  York ;  James  H.  Maurer,  of  the  Pennsylvania  Federation  of  Labor ; 
and  a  large  number  of  other  persons  of  similar  character. 

The  result  of  the  Ford  peace  mission  was  the  establishment  of  an  interna- 
tional committee  of  women  for  permanent  peace,  which  was  organized  at  The 
Hague  in  1915.  They  organized  a  special  branch  for  the  United  States  and  that 
branch  had  a  subsidiary  in  New  York  City,  which  is  now  known  as  the  Women's 
International  League. 

It  is  rather  interesting  to  note  that  at  a  meeting  held  on  the  28th  of  November 
in  New  York  City  by  this  league,  among  the  other  literature  which  was  dis- 
seminated was  a  pamphlet  by  a  man  known  as  Louis  T.  Fraina,  entitled  "  Bol- 
shevism Conquers,"  and  the  meeting  resulted  in  a  riot  by  some  unattached  sol- 
diers that  did  not  like  the  general  tenor  of  the  meeting. 

Senator  Nelson.  They  broke  it  up? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Mrs.  Henry  Villard,  the  mother  of  Oswald  Garrison  VlUard, 
was  the  honorary  chairman ;  Crystal  Eastman  was  the  chairman ;  and  Prof. 
Emily  Greene  Balch  was  also  a  member  of  that  organization. 


Before  going  into  the  radical  movement,  I  think  it  might  be  wise  to  define  the 
three  principal  kinds  of  radical  thought  which  go  to  make  up  the  radical  move- 


ment  and  which  are  merging  in  the  development  of  Bolshevism.     If  you  would 
care  for  me  to  give  a  brief  theoretical  analysis,  I  will  do  so. 

Senator  Nelsox.  Yes ;  but  be  brief. 
.  Senator  King.  Tes ;   I  was  just  asliing  a   member  of  the  committee  here 
whether  that  would  be  relevant  to  the  issues  which  we  were  to  investigate. 
Would  the  radical  movement  now  have  anything  to  do  with  the  German  propa- 
ganda or  the  investigation  of  the  activities  of  the  brewers? 

Senator  Nelson.  I  think  so.  I  think  they  are  still  carrying  on  that  propa- 
ganda now. 

Senator  King.  If  that  is  traceable,  of  course,  to  the  German  propaganda,  or 
is  a  part  of  the  Germ^an  propaganda,  I  think  that  would  be  relevant.  Other- 
wise, I  do  not  see  its  relevancy. 

Let  me  ask  you,  Mr.  Stevenson,  is  it  your  contention  that  this  is  a  part  of 
the  German  propaganda? 

Jlr.  Stevensox.  I  think  it  is  a  result  of  the  German  propaganda.  I  call  your 
attention  to  these  numbers  of  Issues  and  Events,  which  is  a  ijropaganda  maga- 
zine. They  begin  to  sive  publicity  to  Leon  Trotsky  here.  [Indicating.]  There 
is  a  history  of  Leon  Trotsky  in  this  magazine. 

IFrom  testimony  taken  on  Wednesday,  January  22,  1919,  pages  2729,  2737,  2738,  2739, 

and  2740  :] 

Mr.  Stevenson.  The  corollary  of  the  propaganda  which  was  mentioned  this 
morning,  and  in  which  a  large  number  of  tlie  persons  engaged  in  the  pacifist 
organizations  have  taken  part  and  now  take  part,  is  what  may  be  generally 
classified  as  the  radical  movement,  which  is  developing  sympathy  for  the  Bol- 
sheviki  movement,  and  which  in  many  quarters  constitutes  a  revolutionary 
movement  among  the  radical  element  in  this  country. 

Senator  King..  Your  contention  is  that  this  is  the  result  of  German  propa- 
ganda, had  its  origin  in  Germany,  and  therefore  would  be  properly  investigated 
under  the  resolution  of  this  committee? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Yes.  The  Bolsheviki  movement  is  a  branch  of  the  revolu- 
tionary socialism  of  Germany.  It  had  its  origin  in  tbe  philosophy  of  Marx 
and  its  leaders  were  Germans. 

Senator  King.  And  is  this  German  socialism  of  this  country  and  BoLshevism 
of  this  country  the  product  of  or  taught  by  these  organizations  to  which  you 
referred  this  morning,  in  part? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  The  membership  of  those  organizations  was  in  large  part 
made  up  of  persons  either  members  of  the  Socialist  Party  or  in  sympathy 
with  it. 

Senator  Nelson.  You  mean  that  the  German  socialism  was  imported  into 
this  country  by  these  men? 

Jlr.  Stevenson.  By  some  of  these  men. 

Senator  Nelson.  That  is  what  I  mean. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Yes. 

A  A  *  :^  V  *  * 

Senator  Overman.  Here  is  an  exhibit  that  you  put  in,  Mr.  Stevenson,  called 
the  California  Defense  Bulletin,  tbe  issue  of  December  2.  1918.    It  says : 


"  Great  things  are  about  to  happen.  In  fact  something  has  happened  that 
has  sent  a  thrill  of  joy  through  the  heart  of  every  true  internationalist. 

"  Germany  has  followed  the  example  set  by  Russia ;  the  Kaiser  and  his  mili- 
tarist gang  have  been  pulled  down  from  their  high  horses,  and  the  workmen 
and  soldiers  have  taken  over  the  reins  of  the  government. 

"  The  inspiring  news  was  flashed  through  the  world  that  the  soldiers  and 
sailors  had  joined  the  revolution,  thus  avoiding  a  bloody  and  long-drawn  civil 
war.  It  is  apparent  that  the  Russian  Bolsheviki  had  carried  on  an  agitation 
among  the  German  soldiers  as  well  as  among  the  civilian  population,  and  the 
results  are  such  that  we  feel  inclined  to  tip  our  hats  to  the  Bolsheviki  and 
excJaim :  '  Well  done,  brave  soldiers  of  the  class  war.' 

"  But  Bolshevism  is  contagious.  It  is  now  reported  that  a  revolution  is  brew- 
ing in  Holland.  There  have  been  strikes  and  riots  in  Switzerland,  and  In 
Copenhagen,  Denmark.  In  Sweden  there  has  been  a  manifesto  issued  calling 
the  workers  and  soldiers  to  unite  and  organize  along  the  same  line  as  in  Russia. 


,  "The  writer  is  acquainted  with  conditions,  and  is  aware  of  the  sentiment 
among  those  opposing  the  Swedish  Army,  and  it  is  safe  to  predict  that  the 
transformation,  or  rather  the  revolution  will  be  accomplished  without  much 
bloodshed.  Our  Swedish  fellow  workers  have  for  years  carried  on  a  systematic 
agitation  against  militarism,  and  have  gone  into  the  barracks  and  training 
camps  distributing  literature — and  that  they  have  been  successful  nobody  who 
knows  the  real  state  of  affairs  can  deny.  It  is  only  a  question  of  time,  and 
it  may  be  nearer  than  we  can  realize  when  the  Swedes  will ,  straighten  up  and 
throw  the  profiteers  and  militarists  oflf  their  backs.  They  are  slow  in  starting, 
but  when  they  set  out  to  do  anything,  they  usually  do  a  perfect  job. 

"  Let  the  '  patriotic  profiteers'  howl  and  shout  tJiemselves  hoarse.  Let  -tliem 
summon  all  their  stony-faced  judges  and  their  hypocritic  pulpiteers — it  will  be 
to  no  avail.  They  can  not  stop  the  onward  march  of  labor.  The  day  of  indus- 
trial freedom  is  drawing  near.  Get  ready  and  do  your  part  to  speed  the  day." 
Does  that  indicate,  taken  in  connection  with  what  you  have  referred  to  in 
these  other  publications,  that  there  is  an  organization  In  this  country,  now,  to 
bring  about  a  Bolsheviki  revolution? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  believe  that  is  the  desire  of  a  number  of  the  leaders.     I 
would  not  want  to  say  it  as  definitely  proved. 
Senator  Overman.  These  papers  indicate  that  that  is  going  on  now? 
Mr.  Stevenson.  All  of  these  papers  seem  to  indicate  that. 
The  other  publications  of  the  Socialist  Labor  Party  are  the  following  news- 
papers: Arbetaren    (Swedish),   Volksfreund   und   Arbelter-Zeitung    (German), 
Proletareets    (Lettish),    A   Munkas    (Hungarian),    Radnucka    Borba     (South 

I  believe  they  are  also  planning  to  have  a  Jewish  paper. 
Senator  Nelson.  They  are  carrying  on  this  propaganda? 
Mr.  Stevenson.  Yes. 

Senator  Oveeman.  So  that  it  looks  as  if  it  were  nearly  world-wido — this  so- 
cialism and  Bolshevism  and  syndicalism.    This  appears  to  show  that  this  propa- 
ganda is  prevalent  throughout  the  whole  -world,  advocating  a  revolution  in 
every  country  in  the  world— even  in  Sweden  and  Switzerland? 
Mr.  Stevenson.  Yes. 

The  prosecution  of  the  I.  W.  W.  enlisted  the  sympathy  and  support  of  the 

Socialist  Party  of  America.    This  was  shown  by  an  interesting  leaflet  printed  in 

Yiddish,  which  was  picked  up  in  the  I.  W.  W.  hall,  74  St.  Mark's  Place,  New 

■  York,  in  the  middle  of  December  last  year.    The  translation  of  it  is  as  follows: 

"  Socialists  attention : 

"  The  National  Executive  Committee  of  the  Socialist  Party  not  long  a'go  de- 
clared at  a  session  that  the  socialist  party  repeat  the  declaration  of  support  of 
all  the  economic  organizations  of  the  working  class  and  declares  that  listings, 
deportations  and  persecutions  of  the  I.  W.  W.  constitute  an  attack  upon  evei-y 
American  working  man. 

"  And  we  call  attention  to  the  fact  that  the  charges  against  the  I.  W.  W.  on 
the  ground  that  they  burnt  crops  and  forests  and  destroyed  a  lot  of  property 
having  been  submitted  to  a  legal  test  turned  out  to  be  all  lies. 

"  The  socialist  party  has  always  lent  its  material  and  moral  support  to  or- 
ganized labor  everywhere,  and  whenever  attacked  by  the  capitalistic  class, 
.whatever  was  the  character  of  the  organizations.  We  therefore  pledge  our- 
selves to  support  the  I.  W.  AV.'s  who  are  to  be  tried  at  Chicago  and  other  places, 
asking  for  a  fair  trial  and  without  prejudice,  and  we  ask  our  members  to  do 
everything  in  their  power  to  help  the  I.  W.  W.  by  informing  the  public  of  the 
true  facts,  and  also  to  refute  the  falsehoods  and  misinformation  wherewith  the 
capitalist  press  poisons  and  prejudices  public  sentiment  against  these  workers 
who  are  chosen  for  destruction  just  as  other  workmen  and  leaders  have  been 
repeatedly  doomed  to  destruction  by  the  same  capitalists. 
"  Socialists  collect  funds  and  send  to  the  I.  W.  W. 

"  Bring  the  matter  up  in  your  local  organizations  and  branch  meetings  and 
ask  them  to  send  two  delegates  to  the  I.  W.  W.  Defense  Committee  that  meets 
every  Sunday  at  3  p.  m.  74  St.  Mark's  Place,  New  York. 

"All  contributions  are  sent  by  the  above  mentioned  address  to  the  general 
office  at  Chicago.  .    . 

"  I   W  W.  Defense  Committee,  1001  West  Madison  St.,  Chicago,  111. 

"All  checks  to  be  made  payable  to  W.   D.   Haywood,   general   secretary 

"  Greetings  of  the  I.  W.  W.  Defense  Committee  of  New  York." 


That  centers  attention  on  the  Socialist  Party  in  America  and  on  socialism  in 

I  should  like  to  point  out  that  socialism  may  be  divided  roughly  into  two 
principal  kinds,  one  of  which  is  the  conservative  evolutionary  branch,  which  is 
sometimes  known  as  the  opportunist  or  possibilist,  which  desires  to  bring  about 
its  purpose  throufjh  parlianieutiiry  action  and  tlie  power  of  the  ballot.  The 
second  branch,  which  is  the  revolutionary  socialism,  otherwise  called  impossl- 
bilist,  is  the  official  German  socialism,  and  is  the  father  of  the  Bolsheviki  move- 
ment in  Russia,  and  consequently  the  radical  movement  which  we  have  in  this 
country  to-day  has  its  origin  in  Germany. 

Senator  Nelso>;.  Is  that  a  part  of  their  kultur? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  It  was  one  of  the  manifestations  of  their  kultur,  I  believe. 

Senator  Overman.  You  used  the  word  "  impossibilist."  Why  do  they  call  it 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Because  they  found  it  impossible  to  cooperate  with  existing 
forms  of  government. 

Senator  Overman.  And  they  wanted  to  tear  down  the  existing  form  of  gov- 

Jlr.  Stevenson.  Yes. 

The  capture  of  the  Socialist  Party  in  America  in  April,  1917,  by  the  revolu- 
tionary socialist  element  is  of  particular  interest  because  the  members  of  the 
committee  which  brought  in  the  majority  report,  the  committee  on  war  and 
militarism  of  that  convention,  had  for  its  leader  Kate  Richards  O'Hare,  and 
Mr.  Victor  Berger  was  a  member  of  that  committee.  Both  of  these  persons 
were  delegates  from  the  United  States  to  the  International  Socialist  Bureau 
at  Brussels,  which  carried  out  its  world-wide  propaganda  from  the  People's 
House  in  Brussels.  Representatives  from  other  countries  were  Nicholas  Lenine, 
the  leader  of  Russian  Bolshevism,  and  Rosa  Luxemburg. 

Senator  Nelson.  Lately  deceased? 

Mr.  Steve>'son.  Lately  deceased  ;  who  was  one  of  the  leaders  of  the  German 
Bolshevist  element  known  as  the  Spartacus  group,  and  Karl  Liebknecht. 

Senator  Overman.  He  is  also  deceased? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Yes ;  he  is  also  deceased. 

Senator  Overman.  Was  Berger  in  the  same  convention  with  Liebknecht  and 
Rosa  Luxemburg? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Yes ;  he  was  a  delegate  to  the  same  bureau,  and  represented 
the  United  States. 

Senator  Nelson.  Oh,  he  belonged  to  the  same  group. 

Senator  Overman.  I  know  he  did ;  but  I  did  not  know  that  he  had  attended 
the  convention  over  there  with  them. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  The  adoption  of  the  majority  report  of  the  committee  on 
war  and  militarism  at  that  convention  resulted  in  the  withdrawal  from  the 
party  of  the  conservative  element,  of  the  evolutionary  socialists,  such  as 
Charles  Edward  Russell  and  .John  Spargo,  who  have  since  done  valuable  service- 
to  the  Government  in  the  prosecution  of  the  war. 

Senator  Overman.  AVhere  was  that  convention  held? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  At  St.  Louis. 

Senator  Overman.  When? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  April  7  to  14,  1917. 

Senator  Overman.  Messrs.  Russell  and  Spargo  quit  when  they  adopted  those 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Yes. 

Senator  Overman.  And  did  valuable  service  for  the  Government? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Yes. 

At  this  convention  the  following  resolution  was  adopted : 

"  Now,  therefore,  be  it  resolved,  that  the  socialist  party  being  the  political 
arm  of  the  working  class  in  its  fight  for  industrial  freedom,  and  its  power  rest- 
ing mainly  in  its  clear-cut,  specific  declaration  of  political  and  economic  prin- 
ciples, rather  than  in  the  number  of  votes  passed  for  party  candidates,  and  the- 
purpose  of  the  socialist  movement  being  the  emancipation  of  the  working  class 
from  economic  servitude,  rather  than  the  election  to  office  of  candidates,  it  is,, 
therefore,  declared  to  be  the  sense  of  this  convention  that  all  state  organiza- 
tions facing  the  solution  of  this  question  be  urged  to  remember  that  to  fuse- 
or  to  compromise  is  to  be  swallowed  up  and  utterly  destroyed;  that  they  be 
urged  to  maintain  the  revolutionary  position  of  the  socialist  party  and  main,- 
tain  in  the  utmost  possible  vigor  the  propaganda  of  socialism,  unadulterated  by 


association  of  office  seekers,  to  tlie  end  that  the  solidarity  of  the  working  class, 
the  principles  of  international  socialism  may  continue  to  lav  the  foundations 
for  the  social  revolution. 

"  The  social  revolution,  not  political  office,  is  the  end  and  aim  of  the  socialist 
party.     No  compromLse,  no  political  tradins." 

*  *  *  *  *  *  * 

(From  testimony   taken   on   Thursday,   January   23,    1919,   pages  2751,   2752,   2753-2772. 

and  2776-2779:] 

Maj.  Humes.  Mr.  Stevenson,  will  you  now  resume,  please,  where  you  left  off 
last  night? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  If  I  remember  correctly,  I  was  just  giving  an  illustration  of 
the  socialist  expressions  from  the  Radical  Review  of  Tuly,  1918. 

Senator  Overman.  Where  is  that  magazine  published? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  It  is  published  in  New  York,  Senator,  by  the  Radical  Review 
Publishing  Association,  202  East  Seventeenth  Street,  New  York  City. 

Senator  Overman.  Has  it  a  large  circulation? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  do  not  know  what  the  circulation  of  it  is.  It  is  gotten  up 
in  very  good  style  and  has  no  advertisements.  It  is  circulated  at  all  of  the 
radical  meetings.  At  any  of  the  meetings  you  attend  you  will  pick  up  a  copy 
of  this  magazine.  ■ 

Senator  Overman.  Do  you  know  who  is  financing  all  of  these  associations  of 
the  Bolsheviki,  the  Socialists,  and  so  on? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  was  coming  to  that  with  regard  to  the  Bolsheviki,  Senator. 

Senator  Overman.  All  right ;  do  not  let  me  anticipate,  then.    Just  go  ahead. 

Mr.  Stevenson  (reading)  : 

"  True  to  the  dictate  of  necessity,  it  flies  the  red  flag  of  international  social- 
ism "— 

This  is  referring  to  the  Socialist  Party — ■ 
"  proclaiming  the  identity  of  the  workers'  interests  the  world  over,  recognizing 
only  one  enemy,  the  International  bourgeoisie,  and  substituting  the  national 
particularism  of  an  obsolete  competitive  capitalism  with  the  international  soli- 
darity of  socialism." 

Senator  Overman.  It  seems  that  they  have  a  common  flag,  and  that  is  the  red 
flag.    That  is  the  I.  W.  W.  and  the  socialists ;  have  they  aU  a  common  flag? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  They  have. 

Senator  Overman.  And  that  is  the  red  flag? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  That  is  the  red  flag. 

Senator  Overman.  Each  one  of  these  organizations  carries  the  red  flag? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  All  of  them. 

And  here  is  the  epitome  of  the  whole  thing : 

"  The  red  flag  of  the  Industrial  Republic  is  expressive  of  all  the  slumbering 
and  vital  forces  in  society  making  for  progress  and  true  civilization ;  it  is  a 
banner  proclaiming  and  symbolizing  the  noble  Ideal  of  social  fraternity  and 
industrial  equality.  The  ultimate  triumph  of  the  proletarian  armies  fighting 
under  the  re(}  flag,  therefore,  marks  the  dawn  of  the  universal  brotherhood  and 
of  the  cooperative  commonwealth." 

^  ^  il;  *  *  Hi  * 

Mr  Stevenson.  The  Anarchist  element  in  this  country  has  always  been  a 
small  one,  but  a  very  active  and  violent  group. 

Thev  came  into  prominence  again  with  the  declaration  of  war  by  the  United 
States"  and  participated  in  the  pacifist  movement. 

They  organized  the  No  Conscription  League,  with  headquarters  at  20  East 
One  hundred  and  tweuty-flftl)  Street,  Nev,-  York  City,  and  from  that  league 
thev  issued  the  most  violent  propaganda  opposed  to  conscription.  I  should  like 
to  submit  one  or  two  of  their  leaflets  in  the  record. 

A  large  number  of  anonymous  leaflets  were  distributed,  which  were  signed 
"Anarchist,"  and  by  the  underground  pass.  Among  the  assistints  of  Emma 
Goldman  and  Berkman  were  M.  Elinore  Fitzgerald,  Carl  Newlander,  Walter 
Merchant,  and  W.  P.  Bales. 

I  might  say  that  the  official  publication  of  the  Anarchist  was  Mother  Earth. 

Senator  Overman.  Where  was  that  published? 

Mr   Stevenson.  In  New  York  City. 

Senator  Nelson.  What  is  the  title  of  that— Mother  Earth? 

85723—19 2 


Mr.  Ste\'enson.  Mother  Earth. 

Senator  Ovkkman.  Who  is  the  editor  of  that  magazine? 

Mr.  Stevenson'.  Emma  Goldman.  It  is  still  being  published,  although  it  is 
not  coming  out  now  in  regular  issues.  She  is  conflned  in  prison  for  the  viola- 
tion of  the  espionage  act,  I  believe. 

Senator  Overman.  Was  she  tried  under  the  espionage  act  after  she  was  tried 
under  the  conspiracy  act? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Yes,  sir. 

The  anarchists  have  organized  a  school,  known  as  the  Ferrer  Modern  School, 
with  headquarters  at  Stelton,  N.  J.,  but  they  have  branches  in  most  of  the 
cities  of  the  United  States. 

In  connection  with  this  school,  I  must  call  attention  to  the  organization  of  a 
school  for  children  now  being  conducted.  The  head  of  this  movement  is  Mr. 
Leonard  D.  Abbott. 

On  the  trial  of  Emma  Goldman  and  Berkman,  Mr.  Abbott  was  called  to 
testify  as  to  the  character  of  Emma  Goldman  and  Berkman,  and  in  the  course 
of  the  examination  he  was  asked : 

"  Q.  Does  the  Ferrer  School  teach  children  to  disobey  the  laws  of  the 

To  which  he  replied: 

"It  teaches  them  to  criticize  all  laws,  and  to  prepare  themselves  for  a  free 

"  Q.  When  you  speak  of  criticizing  laws,  do  you  include  the  laws  of  this  gov- 

"A.  Yes." 

Senator  Overman.  \A'hat  is  the  extent  of  th<jse  schools? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  They  are  carrying  on  these  schools  in  a  great  many  centers. 

Senator  Oveeman.  Are  they  night  schools? 

Mr.  Ste\tsnson.  No:  I  hat  particular  school  Is  a  colony,  to  which  these 
children  go. 

Senator  Overman.  I  understand  they  have  other  schools? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  They  have  courses  of  lectures. 

One  New  York  branch  of  the  Ferrer  School  has  its  headquarters  at  Pythian 
Hall,  1914  Madison  Avenue,  New  Y'ork  City. 

Senator  Nelson.  I  suppose  they  have  night  schools  for  adults? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Yes ;  the  school  is  a  regular  school  for  teaching  anarchy  to 
children  as  well  as  adults. 

Senator  Nelson.  I  mean,  they  have  night  schools  for  adults  in  that  line? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  am  not  sure  whether  the  Ferrer  School  has.  I  am  sorry 
to  say  that  I  can  not  enlighten  you  on  that  point,  but  they  give  a  series  of 

It  might  be  of  interest  to  give  you  a  few  of  the  titles : 

On  November  17,  1918,  Elizabeth  Gurley  Flynn  lectures  on  "  Economic  recon- 
.struction."     She  is  an  I.  W.  W.,  as  well  as  a  sympathizer  of  the  "Anarchist." 

On  Sunday,  November  24,  "  The  spirit  of  the  mob,  a  factor  in  revolution," 
by  J.  Edward  Morgan. 

December  1,  "  The  anarchist's  relation  to  the  law,"  by  Lola  Ridge ;  and 
similar  lectures  are  carried  on  in  New  York. 

Senator  Overiian.  Are  any  of  these  people  educated  people? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  One  of  the  lecturers  here  is  Hutchins  Hapgood,  who  is  a 
brother  of  Norman  Hapgood. 

Senator  Nelson.  He  is  <ine  of  their  lecturers? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Yes. 

The  interesting  feature  of  the  anarchist  movement  is  that  it  was  originally 
associated  with  Karl  Marx  in  the  First  International;  that  was  the  Interna- 
tional Working  Men's  Association,  which  was  the  first  attempt  to  gather  the 
radicals  of  all  countries  into  one  party  which  would  direct  the  movement  in 
foreign  nations  and  which  would  attempt  to  bring  about  the  results  sought. 

The  anarchists  were  admitted  to  that  movement.  As  time  went  on,  however, 
the  socialists  rather  got  away  from  the  radical  thought  of  the  German  official 
socialism,  and  finally  the  anarchists  were  expelled,  in  1872. 

An  interesting  feature  of  the  International,  however,  at  the  present  time, 
is  that  when  the  war  broke  out  in  1914  the  International  AVorking  Men's 
Association  broke  up,  because  a  number  of  the  socialist  groups  in  their  respec- 
tive countries  supported  their  governments,  notably  the  German  socialists ; 
and.  for  a  time,  it  appeared  that  the  socialist  movement  had  received  its  death 
blow.    But  the  length  of  the  war,  the  extraordinary  sacrifices  of  the  peoples,  and 


the  economic  burdens  that  have  been  imposed,  have  revived  socialist  luovements, 
and  consequently  we  find  the  Bolshevik!  of  Russia  setting  for  tlieniselves  the 
task  of  reconstructing  the  International. 

The  Bolsheviki  are  simply  the  modern  manifestation  of  official  German 
socialism,  to  which  has  been  added  some  of  the  principles  and  tactics  of 

Senator  Ovebman.  And  they  carry  the  red  flag? 

Mr.  Stevenson,  And  they  carry  the  red  flag. 

The  interest  of  Russia  to  the  United  States  is  the  fact  that  they  have  deter- 
mined to  revive  the  International,  and  that  means  that  they  are  sending  their 
missionaries  into  all  parts  of  the  w^orld. 

It  vcas  through  their  influence  that  the  German  Spartacus  group,  headed  by 
Liebknecht  and  Rosa  Luxemburg,  got  their  start. 

Their  activities  in  Argentine  have  been  prominent  in  the  daily  papers. 

It  is  particularly  Interesting  to  note,  also,  that  a  very  large  area  in  Mexico 
is  now  in  control  of  the  Bolsheviki — a  matter  which,  I  think,  has  not  been  gen- 
erally known — and  that  the  propaganda  of  the  Industrial  Union  of  North  and 
South  America,  which  it  is  called,  is  being  circulated  in  New  York  City  and  in 
other  cities  of  the  United  States,  printed  in  Russian  for  the  benefit  of  the  Rus- 
sian immigrants  and  Russian  Jewish  immigrants  to  this  country. 

I  have  a  translation  of  this.  It  is  written  by  John  Sennzott.  It  sounds  rather 
German  to  me,  but  I  do  not  know  anything  about  him. 

Senator  Overman.  Yes ;  it  sounds  German  rather  than  Russian. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Yes. 

Maj.  Humes.  What  parts  of  Mexico  do  you  refer  to,  Mr.  Stevenson? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Yucatan  and  the  adjoining  States. 

Just  to  illustrate  what  they  are  telling  these  people  in  this  country,  I  quote : 

"When  a  man  wants  a  house,  he  goes  to  the  Building  Committee.  Possibly 
he  is  told  there  is  an  empty  house  at  such  and  such  a  place.  If  he  does  not 
like  it,  he  is  registered,  and  when  his  turn  comes,  he  is  built  a  house  according 
to  his  wishes." 

In  other  words,  they  do  not  use  any  money,  and  everything  is  done  on  a  co- 
operative basis. 

Senator  Nelson.  By  the  government? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  By  the  Soviet  government. 

Senator  Nelson.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  The  interesting  feature  of  the  Bolsheviki  movement  is  that 
every  one  of  these  currents  that  we  have  spoken  of  is  now  cooperating  with  the 
Bolsheviki  emissaries.  We  have  several  avowed  agents  of  the  Bolsheviki  gov- 
ernment here — avowed  propagandists. 

Senator  Nelson.  In  this  country;  operating  here? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  In  this  country ;  operating  to-day. 

Senator  Nelson.  Can  you  give  us  the  names  of  them? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Yes.  Two  of  them  are  American  citizens.  One  is  John  Reed, 
a  graduate  of  Harvard  University. 

Senator  Nelson.  You  don't  say? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  And,  by  the  way,  he  is  a  descendant  of  Patrick  Henry.  He  is 
now  under  indictment,  but  has  not  yet  been  tried,  for  violation  of  the  espion- 
age act. 

I  will  read  from  some  of  his  speeches  to  give  you  an  illustration  of  the  type 
of  propaganda  which  he  Is  spreading. 

Senator  Overman.  Are  these  people  financed  by  the  Russian  Bolsheviki? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  might  say  that  we  have  found  money  coming  into  this  coun- 
try from  Russia.  Money  has  come  into  this  country  to  the  head  of  the  Finnish 
branch  of  Bolsheviki  movement  in  this  country,  Sanitori  Nourotava ;  and  there 
is  reason  to  believe  that  money  has  come  in  from  other  sources.  Some  of  these 
matters  are  now  being  investigated,  and  it  would  not  be  wise  to  make  the  names 
of  the  people  or  the  matter  public. 

Senator  Overman.  You  said  there  were  two  Americans;  one  is  Reed,  who  is 
the  other? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  One  is  Reed  and  the  other  is  Albert  Rhys  Williams. 

Senator  Overman.  Where  is  he  from? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  He  is  from  New  York,  I  think.  I  do  not  know  where  he  came 
from;  he  is  an  American  citizen,  I  know.  He  was  a  newspaper  man.  I  be- 
lieve he  was  a  correspondent  in  Russia  before  we  entered  the  war.  I  offer,  as 
an  illustration,  a  book  or  pamphlet  published  by  The  Rand  School  of  Social 


Science,  by  Albert  Rhys  Williams,  entitled  "The  Bolsheviks  and  the  Soviets." 
That  is  an  exposition  of  the  spendid  conditions  in  Russia  under  the  Soviet  form 
of  government. 

The  Russian  Bolsheviki  have  flooded  America  with  propaganda  literature,  of 
which  an  example  is  "A  letter  to  American  working  men  from  the  Socialist 
Soviet  Republic  of  Russia,  by  Nikolai  Lenin,"  published  by  The  Socialist  Publi- 
cation Society,  431  Pulaski  Street,  Brooklyn,  N.  Y.,  in  December,  1918.  It  is 
an  appeal  to  the  American  working  men  to  straighten  up  and  throw  off  the 
incubus  of  cnpital  and  to  join  the  ranks  of  the  Soviet  government.  The  Rand 
School  of  Social  Science  has  published — and  these  are  in  English — articles  by 
Nikolai  Lenin,  entitled  "  The  Soviets  at  Work."  They  are  very  extremely  inter- 
esting documents  and  very  appealing. 

A  large  number  of  documents  are  printed  in  Russian,  Yiddish,  Finnish,  and 
the  various  other  languages  which  are  spoken  by  large  groups  of  our  foreign  im- 
migrants in  this  country ;  and  besides  all  this,  we  find  that  the  Socialist  papers, 
almost  without  exception,  encourage  and  support  this  movement. 

Senator  Ovebman.  Would  it  be  difficult  for  us  to  get  a  list  of  all  such  papers 
and  pamphlets  published,  and  have  it  put  in  the  record? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  It  would  be  quite  a  difficult  task.  In  the  first  place,  the 
means  of  the  Government  for  collecting  these  papers,  books,  pamphlets,  etc., 
are  rather  limited  at  the  present  time.  They  are  scattered  all  over  the  United 

Senator  O^-eeiian.  Is  any  of  this  propaganda  going  through  the  South? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Why,  not  so  much ;  at  least,  not  so  much  has  come  to  our 
nttention.  I  might  call  attention  to  the  New  England  Leader,  published  in 
Boston  and  Fitchburg,  Mass.,  for  November  23,  1918,  which  has  an  interesting 
article  on  the  first  page,  entitled  "  Capitalism  fast  tottering  to  fall — Smug  capi- 
talists of  this  Nation  will  lose  their  crowns  as  soon  as  the  spirit  of  the  prole- 
tariat of  Germany  is  contracted  by  the  American  workers."  and  the  heading  is 
"  The  people's  hour  has  arrived." 

Senator  Overman.  Where  Is  that  from? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  That  is  from  Boston  and  Fitchburg,  Mass.  I  am  sorry  that  I 
can  not  call  your  attention  to  all  the  interesting  articles  in  these  various  papers. 

Senator  Nelson.  Have  you  got  any  Finnish  paper  there? 

Mr.  STE^'ENSON.  I  have.    Here  is  a  Finnish  paper  [exhibiting]. 

Senator  Nelson.  Where  is  it  published? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Published  in  Astoria,  Oreg.  It  is  a  very  prosperous-looking 
paper,  published  in  three  sections,  and  the  name  is  Toverl.  It  has  in  English 
in  the  upper  right-hand  corner  "  The  circulation  of  the  Toverl  is  greater  than 
the  combined  circulation  of  all  other  newspapers  printed  in  Astoria."  It  is  a 
very  substantial  sheet. 

Senator  Overman.  Is  it  printed  in  English? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  No  ;  that  is  Finnish.  I  submit  now  copies  of  various 
Socialistic  newspapers  from  various  parts  of  the  country.  You  might  be  inter- 
ested to  look  some  of  those  over.  Now,  here  is  a  paper  in  English,  entitled 
International  Weekly,  with  a  subheading  "  Organ  of  the  social  revolution." 
That  is  published  in  Seattle,  Wash.  Another  one  is  entitled  "  Seattle  Daily 
Call.    To  carry  truth  to  the  people." 

Senator  Overman.  Is  that  in  English? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Yes;  that  is  in  English.  I  am  only  bringing  these  to  your 
attention  as  scattered  illustrations  of  the  type  of  publications  printed. 

Senator  Nelson.  Can  you  give  us  any  information  about  the  activities  of 
these  extreme  radicals  in  this  country ;  where  they  have  operated,  and  what 
they  have  done,  or  \indertaken  to  do? 

Mr.  Steatinson.  Up  to  the  present  time,  so  far  as  actual  proof  is  concerned, 
their  activities  are  largely  propaganda,  the  holding  of  large  numbers  of  meet- 
ings, and  the  distribution  of  radical  literature. 

Senator  Overman.  Pamphlets  and  newspapers? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Pamphlets,  newspapers,  books,  and  hand  bills.  For  instance, 
one  of  the  methods  was  to  print  a  leaflet  calculated  to  disturb  the  mind  of 
the  reader,  which  was  put  into  the  mail  boxes  of  a  very  large  number  of 
tenement  houses — stuffed  in  the  various  mail  boxes — entitled  "  Why  you  should 
be  a  socialist,"  by  Theresa  S.  Malkiel,  who,  by  the  way,  was  a  member  of 
several  of  the  pacifist  societies  that  we  spoke  of  yesterday. 

Immediately  after  the  signing  of  the  armistice  there  was  a  tremendous  out- 
cropping of  this  propaganda.  The  number  of  meetings  doubled,  and  one  of 
the  first  meetings  of  interest  was  held  on  November  15,  1918,  by  the  Yorkville 


agitation  committee  (Yorkville  being  a  part  of  New  York  City).  Comrade 
Patrick  Quinlan,  wlio  is  known  for  liis  connection  with  tlie  I.  W.  W.,  and  wlio 
has  served  a  sentence  for  his  activities  with  the  I.  W.  Vf.  in  Paterson,  N.  J., 
made  a  speech  tliat  night,  in  which  he  said : 

"  Do  not  allow  the  capitalists  to  keep  the  Army  in  Europe  for  the  purpose 
of  shooting  down  your  fellow  laboring  men  in  Germany  and  Russia.  Do  not 
trust  Lloyd  George  any  more  than  you  trust  the  Professor.  The  red  flag  is 
flying  over  nearly  all  of  Europe ;  it  will  soon  fly  in  France,  and  spread  across 
the  English  Channel,  an..  e\eiitually  will  fly  over  this  city  and  the  White  House, 
when  the  Republic  of  i  t  the  World  is  proclaimed." 

At  a  meeting  held  on  January  10,  1919,  at  the  Labor  Lyceum,  949  Willoughby 
Avenue,  Brooklyn,  N.  Y.,  Mr.  John  Reed,  who  is  the 

Senator  Overman.  The  Harvard  graduate? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Yes ;  the  Harvard  graduate,  and  wlio  is  in  this  country  as 
the  consul  general  of  the  Soviet  Republic,  stated,  among  other  things 

Senator  Overman.  That  is  not  recognized,  though? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  No  ;  not  recognized.     He  says : 

"  My  family  came  to  this  country,  botli  branches,  in  1607  ;  one  of  my  ancestors 
was  Patrick  Henry,  who  signed  the  Declaration  of  Independence;  another  of  my 
ancestors  was  a  general  under  George  Washington ;  and  another  a  colonel  on  the 
northern  side  in  the  Civil  War.  I  have  a  brother,  a  major  in  the  Aviation 
Corps,  now  in  France,  and  I  am  a  voter  and  a  citizen  of  the  United  States;  and 
1  claim  the  right  to  criticise  the  government  as  much  as  I  please.  I  criticise  the 
form  of  it  because  I  claim  that  it  is  not  a  democratic  enough  government  for  me. 
I  want  a  more  democratic  government.  I  consider  the  Soviet  government  in 
Russia  a  more  democratic  government  at  tlie  present  time  than  our  own  gov- 

He  goes  on  in  a  very  long  speech,  the  tenor  of  which  is  to  justify  the  position 
and  the  activities  of  the  Soviet  government,  and  expressing  the  highest  praise 
for  it.    He  goes  on  further  to  say : 

"Now,  this  war,  which  is  supposed  to  have  been  finished  up  now,  was  sup- 
posed to  be  a  conflict  between  two  ideas — democracy  and  autocracy.  Well,  the 
war  is  finished,  comrades,  and  where  in  Hell  is  the  democracy?  Now,  in  New 
York  City  free  speecii  is  suppressed ;  Socialists  are  not  allowed  to  meet ;  the  • 
red  flag  is  banned ;  periodicals  are  barred  from  the  mails,  and  all  the  evidences 
of  Prussianism  appear." 

I  might  point  out  another  dangerous  feature  of  this  thing. 

Maj.  Htjmbs.  It  would  suggest  that  tlie  whole  speech  be  put  into  the  record. 
I  have  glanced  over  it  myself.  It  has  only  been  referred  to,  but  I  believe  it 
is  an  interesting  outline  of  the  whole  plan  of  their  activities. 

Senator  Overman.  Let  it  go  in. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  The  thing  that  I  was  going  to  mention  is  that  a  lot  of  edu- 
cated people,  particularly  a  number  of  educated  and  cultured  women,  who 
have  taken  an  interest  in  what  is  known  as  "  liberal  ideas,"  have,  as  a  form 
of  entertainment,  the  inviting  of  John  Reed  and  others  to  come  and  address 
them  on  afternoons. 

SeJiator  Overman.  That  is  the  man  who  made  this  speech? 

Mr.  STE^■ENS0N.  Yes. 

(The  speech  referred  to  is  here  printed  in  the  record,  as  follows:) 

Comrades  and  friends :  I  am  just  told  that  there  is  an  order  from  the  police 
that  we  are  not  to  criticise  at  this  meeting  the  United  States  Government  or  the 
Allies.  Now  I  was  arrested  and  indicted  some  two  months  ago  for  criticizing 
the  intervention  of  the  Allies  in  Russia.  Since  that  time  not  socialist  papers 
but  bourgeois  papers,  the  Nation,  the  Dial,  the  Public,  and  the  New  Republic, 
the  Evening  Post,  Jane  Addams,  Senator  Hiram  .Johnson,  Senator  Borah,  and 
other  members  of  Congress  have  said  a  damned  sight  worse  things  than  I 
have,  and  nobody  dared  either  arrest  or  indict  them.  I  am  obliged  to  conclude 
from  that  that"  these  persecutions  are  directed  against  socialism.  Now  it 
evidently  has  not  come  to  the  attention  of  the  gentleman  who  gave  that  request 
from  the  police  that  according  to  my  information  the  Attorney  General  of  the 
United  States  has  ruled  that  criticism  of  the  allies  does  not  come  under  the 
Espionage  Act,  for  the  simple  reason  that  we  have  no  treaties  of  alliance  with 
any  European  power  at  the  present  moment,  and  the  foreign  nations,  we  can 
criticise  them  all  we  please. 

Now,  I  am  an  American,  and  my  family  has  been  here  a  good  deal  longer 
than  the  families  of  any  police.  My  family  came  to  this  country,  both  branches, 
in  1607.     One  of  my  ancesters  was  Patrick  Henry,  who  signed  the  Declaration 


of  Independence.  Another  of  my  ancestors  was  a  General  under  George  Wash- 
ington, and  another  a  Colonel  on  the  Northern  side  In  the  Civil  War,  now  In 
France,  and  I  am  a  voter  and  a  citizen  of  the  United  States,  and  I  ilaini  the 
right  to  criticise  the  government  as  much  as  I  please, 

I  criticise  the  form  of  it.  I  criticise  the  form  of  it  because  I  claim  that  it) 
is  not  a  democratic  enough  government  for  me.  I  want  a  more  democratic 
government.  I  consider  the  Soviet  Government  of  Russia  a  more  democratic 
government  at  the  present  time  than  our  own  government,  and  Col.  William 
Royce  Thompson,  who  is  a  millionaire,  said  the  same  thing  three  months  ago, 
and  nobody  dared  touch  him.  Now  I  charge  agencies  of  our  goxernment  witli 
keeping  from  the  people  of  the  United  States  the  truth  about  Russia,  and 
Senator  Hiram  Johnson  said  the  same  thing  the  other  day  in  Congress.  We 
have  also  agencies  of  our  government  which  have  not  only  kept  the  truth  from 
our  people,  but  they  have  given  out  information  about  Russia  which  is  not 
true,  and  I  refer  here  to  the  Sisson  documents  particularly,  proving  that  Lenine 
and  Trotzky  received  German  gold,  and  I  tell  the  people  In  this  hall  assembled, 
and  the  people  of  the  United  States,  and  the  Senate  of  the  United  States,  that 
proof  will  be  offered  in  Congress  within  ten  days,  and  it  is  there  now,  that  proof 
will  be  offered  that  the  Sisson  documents  are  largely  forgeries.  I  claim  that 
the  statement  of  our  government,  which  was  given  by  Chairman  Hitchcock  to 
the  United  States  Senate,  to  the  effect  that  our  troops  were  welcomed  by  the 
people  at  Archangel  and  Vladivostok  is  false,  and  the  agents  of  our  goverimient 
know  that  it  is  false.  We  were  not  welcome  in  either  Archangel  or  Vladivostok 
and  I  don't  mean  only  our  own  troops  but  all  the  Allies,  and  I  say  here  that  the 
Allied  troops,  British,  French,  and  Japanese,  when  they  landed  at  Vladivostok 
they  shot  In  the  streets  hundreds  of  Soviet  troops,  blew  down  buildings,  put  the 
Soviet  government  in  jail ;  that  when  it  was  over  a  funeral  procession  of  the 
working  people,  20,000  strong,  went  through  the  streets  carrying  the  coffins  con- 
taining their  dead,  which  they  laid  down  in  front  of  the  British  Consulate, 
from  which  machine  guns  had  played  on  the  people.  They  made  speeches  say- 
ing they  would  never  forget  their  dead,  and  there,  surrounded  by  machine  .guns 
and  artillery,  they  were  about  to  leave. 

There  were  American  cruisers  in  the  harbor.  It  was  the  4th  of  July,  and 
the  American  cruisers  flew  the  American  flag.  One  fif  the  speakers  said  to  the 
people :  "  See ;  to-day  America  celebrates  the  anniversitry  of  her  independence. 
Let  us  go  and  appeal  to  America  so  that  the  Americans  on  this,  their  day  of 
independence,  will  recognize  that  «e  are  struggling  for  freedom."  And  they 
carried  those  coflins  up  the  hill  and  laid  them  down  on  the  sidewalk  in  front 
of  the  American  Consulate,  and  asked  that  we  say  a  word  for  them.  And  five 
days  later  the  United  States  Marines  landed  and  three  weeks  later  they  were 
shooting  down  Russians  without  a  Declaration  of  War. 

I  want  to  point  out  another  thing,  and  charge,  as  Johnson  has  charged  in  the 
Senate  of  the  United  States — as  Senator  Hiram  Johnson  has  charged  in  the 
Senate  of  the  United  States — and  the  Dial,  the  Nation,  the  Public,  the  New 
Republic,  and  the  Evening  Post  have  charged  the  same  thing,  that  our  govern- 
ment in  sending  troops  to  Russia  without  a  declaration  of  war  has  violated  the 
Constitution  of  the  United  States  and  has  committed  an  illegal  act,  and  I 
charge  that  same  thing  here  tonight. 

Now  I  want  to  point  out  to  you  what  is  being  done  in  the  Baltic  provinces  bj 
the  Allies,  particularly  by  the  English.  The  English  have  taken  under  their 
protection  the  so-called  governments  of  the  Baltic  provinces.  Those  govern- 
ments which  were  set  up  by  who?  By  the  people  of  the  Baltic  Provinces?  No. 
By  the  officials  of  Kaiser  Wilhelm ;  and  those  are  the  governments  that  the 
British  government  is  taking  under  its  protection. 

I  also  want  to  call  your  attention  to  the  despatches  which  have  been  coming 
through  and  which  have  not  been  denied,  that  the  Brlti'sh  authorities  have 
told  the  Germans  to  resist  the  onward  march  of  the  Bolshevikl,  the  Lettish, 
the  Esthonian,  and  the  Lithuanian  people  who  are  trying  to  win  back  their  own 
country  from  the  tyranny  of  German  barons  who  have  terrorized  the  Baltic 
provinces  for  centuries.  There  is  a  very  Important  thing  for  you  to  remember, 
and  that  is  that  what  the  AUies  are  doing  at  the  present  time  in  the  Baltld 
provinces — and  I  don't  say  our  own  government,  because  our  government  has 
nothing  to  do  with  this — but  what  the  Germans,  the  English,  and  the  French  are 
doing  is  carrying  out  the  provisions  of  the  Treaty  of  Brest-Litovsk  which  the 
Germans  imposed  upon  the  Russian  Baltic  provinces — a  treaty  at  which  the 
whole  allied  world,  including  us  here  in  America,  threw  up  its  hands  in  horror, 
such  were  the  conditions  imposed  upon  the  Baltic  provinces.     And  now  the 


allies,  wlthont  any  further  delay  at  all,  are  imposing  these  same  conditions,  or 
trying  to  Impose  them,  iipon  the  Baltic  provinces,  and  the  only  reason  they  can- 
hot  do  so  is  that  there  is  an  international  red  army  of  Esthonians,  Letts, 
Lithuanians,  and  Russians,  who  are  resisting  them  to  the  last. 

Now  this  war,  which  is  supposed  to  have  been  finished  by  now,  was  sup- 
posed to  be  a  conflict  between  two  ideals,  democracy  and  autocracy.  Well,  the 
war  is  finished,  comrades,  and  where  in  hell  is  the  democracy?  Now  in  New 
York  City  free  speech  is  suppressed.  Socialists  are  not  allowed  to  meet,  the 
red  flag  is  banned,  periodicals  are  barred  from  the  mails,  and  all  the  evidences 
of  Prussianlsm  appear.  I  want  to  ask  yon,  if  ypu  know  anything  about  imperial 
Oermany,  If  you  had  ever  been  to  a  meeting  in  Germany,  a  political  meeting? 
Absolutely  the  same  phenomenon  is  here.  The  Chief  of  Police  comes  to  tell  you 
you  can't  talk  about  so-and-so,  and  100  cops  in  the  hall !    Is  that  so? 

Now  the  war  Is  ended,  but  a  new  war  is  begun,  and  this  time  it  IS  a  war 
between  two  ideas  for  the  first  time  in  history.  Those  two  ideas  are  these : 
There  are  two  parties.  On  one  side  is  private  property  and  nationalism,  and  on 
the  other  side  is  property  for  the  people  and  internationalism.  Now  the  system 
of  civilization,  comrades,  under  which  we  live,  is  bankrupt  at  the  present  time. 
It  hasn't  got  a  leg  to  stand  on.  It  doesn't  dare  to  permit  democracy,  because 
if  it  did  it  would  be  voted  out  of  existence.  It  rests,  of  course  upon  words 
which  do  no  mean  what  they  say,  and  upon  force. 

Now  In  this  connection  I  want  to  call  your  attention  to  a  statement  of 
Nieholai  Lenine's,  which  he  spoke  in  the  third  congress  of  Soviets,  after  the 
disposal  of  the  Constituent  Assembly,  when  the  other  members  were  accusing  the 
BolshevikI  of  using  force.  Lenine  stood  on  the  platform  and  said,  "  We  are 
accused  of  using  force.  We  admit  it.  All  government  is  merely  organized  force 
in  the  hands  of  one  class  against  another;  but  now,  for  the  first  time  in  history, 
this  organized  force  is  being  used  by  the  working  class  against  the  capitalist 

On  the  night  of  second  Congress  of  Soviets  in  Petrograd,  when  the  Bolshevik! 
insurrection  broke  out  and  the  Provisional  Government  fell,  the  Bolsheviki 
were  In  session  in  a  great  hall  like  this  one,  the  Smolny  Institute.  Throu,<Jh 
the  windows  came  the  sound  of  cannon  fire,  and  as  the  evening  wore  and  the 
success  of  the  Bolsheviki  Insurrection  became  apparent,  all  the  other  political 
parties  in  that  convention  began  to  walk  out.  One  after  another  the  leaders 
walked  out  and  their  delegates  followed  the  leaders.  And  Trotzky,  who 
noticed  that  among  the  Bolsheviki  delegates  who  ware  In  the  great  majority, 
there  were  a  number  of  delegates  who  seemed  uneasy  and  uncertain  to  see  all 
the  other  parties  leaving,  went  to  the  front  platform  and  said,  "  Let  the  com- 
promisers go ;  they  are  just  so  much  garbage  which  will  be  swept  Into  the 
rubbish-heap  of  history." 

But  what  I  want  to  tell  you  most  of  all  is  this,  that  when  these  compromising 
parties  walked  out  of  the  Congress  of  the  Soviets  and  left  the  balance,  the 
Bolsheviki,  greatly  reduced,  here  and  there  a  man  would  stand  up.  One  said, 
"  I  am  for  the  Esthonian  Social  Democracy ;  I  demand  a  place  on  that  platform." 
Another  said,  "  I  am  from  the  Lettish  Social  Democracy ;  I  demand  a  place  on 
that  platform."  A  third  said,  "  I  am  from  the  Lithuanian  Social  Democracy ;  I 
demand  a  place  on  that  platform."  And  so  it  finally  came  to  pass  that  represen- 
tatives of  the  working  class  from  all  over  Russia  came  and  joined  hands  with 
them,  and  that  was  the  beginning  of  the  Russian  international,  which  was  the 
beginning  of  the  third  international  of  the  world's  workers. 

I  was  In  the  Lettish  country  just  after  the  (all  of  Rega.  I  was  at  the  front 
and  saw  the  Lettish  soldiers,  who  alone  of  all  the  12th  Army  stood  against  the 
Germans,  and  stood  against  the  Germans  until  they  were  cut  down,  one  regi- 
ment 3000  to  18,  and  the  reason  they  stood  against  the  Germans  was  not  because 
they  didn't  like  the  Germans,  but  because  they  were  revolutionists,  and  they 
saw  Immediately  that  the  Germans  were  the  representatives  of  a  militant  capi- 
talism advancing  on  Russia.  The  i-eason  I  know  that  was  why  they  stood 
against  the  Germans  is  that  when  the  Allies  landed  at  Archangel  and  Vladivostok 
the  Corps  of  the  two  revolutionary  armies  sent  against  the  Allies  was  composed 
of  Letts,  which  race  had  already  sacrificed  their  lives  so  bravely. 

On  the  10th  of  November  the  Bolsheviki  controlled  the  City  of  Petrograd. 
Their  headquarters  was  in  Smolny  Institute,  and  they  were  organizing  the 
defence  of  the. City  against  Kerensky's  cossack  army  which  was  coming  up 
from  the  South. .  They  were  cut  ofC  from  communication  with  the  rest  of  the 
country.  The  reactionary  central  committee  of  the  postal  telegraph  union, 
the  telephone  workers,  and  the  railroad  workers  had  declared  against  them 


and  the  Bolsheviki  iu  the  Smolny  Institute  were  cut  ott  from  all  communication 
with  the  rest  of  Russia  and  the  world.  They  didn't  know  how  the  army  would 
go.  Of  course  they  knew  the  condition  of  mind  of  the  ai-my.  They  knew  they 
had  the  masses  of  Russian  people  with  them,  but  didn't  know  how  the  thing  was 
actually  working  out,  and  couldn't  get  any  information. 

In  the  Duma — on  the  Xevsky  Prospect  the  Duma  was  forming  what  they 
called  a  Committee  for  the  Salvation  of  Country  and  Revolution.  It  was  com- 
posed of  the  anti-Bolshevik  forces  and  included  the  compromising  socialist 
party.  This  Committee  for  Salvation  was  in  communication  with  Kerensky 
and  with  the  rest  of  Russia  and  was  trying  to  rouse  it  against  the  Bolsheviki. 
I  ^yas  in  the  Duma  that  afternoon.  I  left  the  Smolny  about  noon.  There  one 
man  was  doing  the  work  of  ten,  and  people  were  falling  down  from  fatigue, 
sleeping  three  or  four  hours,  getting  up  again  and  working,  and  everyone  was 
gloomy  and  depressed.  When  I  got  to  the  Duma  everybody  was  feeling  fine; 
they  thought  the  Bolsheviki  would  only  last  about  three  hours.  We  sat  there 
for  a  while  and  suddenly  I  looked  out  the  window  down  the  Nevsky  ProsiDect, 
and  saw  coming  up  a  double  file  of  soldiers  on  bicycles,  and  I  said  to  myself, 
"  Here  is  the  army,  the  loyal  regiments  coming  in  to  crush  the  Bolsheviki,"  and 
I  went  down.  All  the  town  had  come  out.  The  soldiers  stopped  and  lined  up 
for  a  moment's  rest  in  front  of  the  Duma,  and  after  a  while  people  began  to 
ask  questions,  "What  are  you?"  "Oh,  we  are  the  Lettish  sharp-shooters." 
"Where  do  you  come  from?"  "We  come  from  the  front."  "What  are  you 
going  to  do  here,  capture  the  Smolny  Institute  and  kick  out  the  Bolsheviki?" 
One  Lett  said,  "  Hell,  no,  we  are  here  to  support  the  Soviet ;  you  go  back  to  the 
Duma  if  you  want  to." 

Mr.  Stevenson.  An  extremely  interesting  bit  of  propaganda,  and  one  which 
has  been  used  by  all  of  the  Bolsheviki  newspapers,  is  a  letter  addressed  to 
President  Wilson  from  the  Rus.sian  Soviet  Government,  and  signed  by  the 
"  People's  Commissary  of  Foreign  Affairs,  Tchictherin,"  which  was  delivered 
through  the  Norwegian  Embassy  to  President  AYilson  October  24,  1918. 

Senator  Nelson.  Is  it  a  long  letter? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  It  is  a  very  long  thing,  but  it  is  a  matter  of  great  interest. 
It  is  an  extremely  well-written  document,  and  extremely  insidious,  and  for  that 
reason  it  has  been  used  by  the  Bolsheviki  in  this  country.  It  was  designed, 
when  sent,  to  be  used  as  propaganda,  and  it  is  interesting  that  the  first  English 
publication  of  it  was  in  the  Nation,  which  is  owned  and  edited  by  Oswald 
Garrison  Villard.  It  was  not  given  out  by  the  Government  of  the  United 
States.  I  do  not  know  whether  you  would  like  to  have  that  go  into  the  record 
or  not. 

Maj.  Humes.  It  is  a  matter  which  I  think  should  go  into  the  record.  It  gives 
their  view  of  our  form  of  government,  and  outlines  what  they  concede  to  be 
their  plan  of  government. 

Senator  Oveem.nn.  Contrasting  theirs  with  ours? 

Maj.  Hxtmes.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Ovekman.  Put  it  in  the  record. 

(The  letter  referred  to  is  printed  in  the  record  as  follows :) 

To  the  President  of  the  United  States  of  North  America,  Mr.  Woodrow  Wilson. 

Mr.  Pkesident:  In  your  message  nf  January  8th  to  the  Congress  of  the  United 
States  of  North  America,  in  the  sixth  point,  you  spoke  of  your  profound  sym- 
pathy for  Russia,  which  was  then  conducting,  single  handed,  negotiations  with 
the  mighty  German  imperialism.  Your  program,  you  declared  demands  the 
evacuation  of  all  Russian  territory  and  such  a  settlement  of  all  questions 
affecting  Russia  as  will  secure  the  best  and  freest  cooperation  of  the  other 
nations  of  the  world  in  obtaining  for  her  unhampered  and  unembarrassed 
opportunity  for  the  independent  determination  of  her  political  development  and 
national  policy,  and  assure  her  a  sincere  welcome  into  the  society  of  free 
nations  under  institutions  of  her  own  choosing;  and,  more  than  a  welcome, 
assistance  of  every  kind  that  she  may  need  and  may  herself  desire.  And  you 
added  that  "  the  treatment  accorded  to  her  by  her  sister  nations  in  the  months 
to  come  will  be  the  acid  test  of  their  good-will,  of  their  comprehension  of  her 
needs  as  distinguished  from  their  own  interests,  of  their  intelligent  and  un- 
selfish sympathy." 

The  desperate  struggle  which  we  were  waging  at  Brest-Litovsk  against  Ger- 
man imperialism  apparently  only  intensified  your  sympathy  for  Soviet  Russia, 
for  you  sent  greetings  to  the  Congress  of  the  Soviets,  which  under  the  threat  of 


a  German  ofEensive  ratified  the  Brest  peace  of  violence — greetings  and  assur- 
ances that  Soviet  Russia  might  count  upon  American  help. 

Six  months  have  passed  since  thep,  and  the  Russian  people  have  had  suffi- 
cient time  to  get  actual  tests  of  your  Government's  and  your  Allies'  good-will, 
of  their  comprehension  of  the  needs  of  the  Russian  people,  of  their  intelligent 
unselfish  sympathy.  This  attitude  of  your  Government  and  of  your  Allies  was 
shown  first  of  all  in  the  conspiracy  which  was  organized  on  Russian  territory 
with  the  financial  assistance  of  your  French  Allies  and  with  the  diplomatic 
co-operation  of  your  Government  as  well — the  conspiracy  of  the  Czecho-Slovaks 
to  whom  your  Government  is  furnishing  every  kind  of  assistance. 

For  some  time  attempts  had  been  made  to  create  a  pretext  for  a  war  between 
Russia  and  the  United  States  of  North  America  by  spreading  false  stories  to 
the  eifect  that  German  war  prisoners  had  seized  the  Siberian  railway,  but  your 
own  officers  and  after  them  Colonel  Robbins,  the  head  of  your  Red  Cross 
Mission,  had  been  convinced  that  these  allegations  were  absolutely  false.  The 
Czecho-Slovak  conspiracj'  was  organized  under  the  slogan  that  unless  these 
misled  unfortunate  people  be  protected,  they  would  be  surrendered  to  Germany 
and  Austria ;  but  you  may  find  out,  among  other  sources,  from  the  open  letter 
of  Captain  Sadoul,  of  the  French  Military  Mission,  how  unfounded  this  charge 
is.  Tlie  Czecho-Slovaks  would  have  left  Russia  in  the  beginning  of  the  year, 
had  the  French  Government  provided  ships  for  them.  For  several  months  we 
have  waited  in  vain  that  your  Allies  should  provide  the  opportunity  for  the 
Czecho-Slovaks  to  leave.  Evidently  these  Governments  have  very  much  pre- 
ferred the  presence  of  the  Czecho-Slovaks  in  Russia — the  results  show  for  what 
object — to  their  departure  for  France  and  their  participation  in  the  fighting 
on  the  French  frontier.  Tlie  best  proof  of  the  real  object  of  the  Czecho-Slovak 
rebellion  is  tlie  fact  that  although  in  control  of  the  Siberian  railway,  the 
Czecho-Slovaks  have  not  taken  advantage  of  this  to  le£tve  Russia,  but  by  the 
order  of  the  Entente  Governments,  whose  directions  they  follow,  have  re- 
mained in  Russia  to  become  the  mainstay  of  the  Russian  counter-revolution. 
Their  counter-revolutionary  mutiny  which  made  impossible  the  transportation 
of  grain  and  petroleum  on  the  Volga,  which  cut  off  the  Russian  workers  and 
peasants  from  the  Siberian  stores  of  grain  and  other  materials  and  condemned 
them  to  starvation — this  was  the  first  experience  of  the  workers  and  peasants 
of  Russia  with  your  Government  and  with  your  Allies  after  your  promises  of 
the  beginning  of  the  year.  And  then  came  another  experience :  an  attack  on 
North  Russia  by  Allied  troops,  including  American  troops,  their  invasion  of 
Russian  territory  without  any  cause  and  without  a  declaration  of  war,  the 
occupation  of  Russian  cities  and  villages,  executions  of  Soviet  officials  and 
other  acts  of  violence  against  the  peaceful  population  of  Russia. 

You  have  promised,  Mr.  President,  to  co-operate  with  Russia'  in  order  to 
obtain  for  her  an  unhampered  and  unembarrassed  opportunity  for  the  inde- 
pendent determination  of  her  political  development  and  her  national  policy. 
Actually  this  co-operation  took  the  form  of  an  attempt  of  the  Czecho-Slovak 
troops  and  later,  in  Archangel,  Murmansk  and  the  Far  East,  of  your  own  and 
your  Allies'  troops,  t()  force  the  Russia:}  people  to  submit  to  the  rule  of  the 
oppressing  and  exploiting  classes,  whose  dominion  was  overthrown  by  the 
workers  and  peasants  of  Russia  in  October,  1917.  The  revival  of  the  Russian 
counter-revolution  which  has  already  become  a  corpse,  attempts  to  restore  by 
force  its  bloody  domination  over  the  Russian  people — ^^such  was  the  experience 
of  the  Russian  people,  instead  of  co-operation  for  the  unembarrassed  expres- 
sion of  their  will  which  you  promised  them,  Mr.  President,  in  your  declara- 

You  have  also,  air.  President,  promised  to  the  Russian  people  to  assist  them 
in  their  struggle  for  independence.  Actually  this  is  what  has  occurred :  while 
the  Russian  people  were  fighting  on  the  Southern  front  against  the  counter- 
revolution, which  has  betrayed  them  to  German  imperialism  and  was  threaten- 
ing their  independence,  while  they  were  using  all  their  energy  to  organize  the 
defense  of  their  territory  against  Germany  at  their  Western  frontiers,  they 
were  forced  to  move  their  troops  to  the  East  to  oppose  the  Czecho  Slovaks  who 
were  bringing  them  slavery  and  oppression,  and  to  the  North — against  your 
allies  and  your  own  troops  which  had  invaded  their  territory,  and  against 
the  counter-revolutions  organized  by  these  troops. 

Mr.  President,  the  acid  test  of  the  relations  between  the  United  States  and 
Russia  gave  quite  different  results  from  those  that  might  have  been  expected 
from  your  message  to  the  Congress.  But  we  have  reason  not  to  be  altogether 
dissatisfied  with  even  these  results,  since  the  outrages  of  the  counter-revolution 


In  the  East  and  Xortli  have  shown  the  \\orkers  and  peasants  of  Russia  the 
aims  of  the  Russian  counter-revolution,  and  of  its  foreign  supporters,  thereby 
creating  among  the  Russian  people  an  Iron  will  to  defend  their  liberty  and 
the  conquests  of  the  revolution  to  defend  the  land  that  it  has  given  to  the 
peasants  and  the  factories  that  it  has  given  to  the  workers.  The  fall  of  Kazan, 
Symbyrsk,  Syzran,  and  Samara  should  make  it  clear  to  you,  Mr.  President, 
what  were  the  consequence  for  us  of  the  actions  which  followed  your  promises 
of  January  8th.  Our  trials  helped  to  create  a  strongly  united  and  disciplined 
Red  Army,  which  is  daily  growing  stronger  and  more  powerful  and  which  Is 
learning  to  defend  the  revolution.  The  attitude  toward  us,  which  was  actually 
displayed  by  your  Government  and  by  your  Allies  could  not  destroy  us ;  on  the 
contrary,  we  are  now  strcmger  than  we  were  a  few  months  ago,  and  your 
present  proposal  of  international  negotiations  for  a  general  peace  finds  us  alive 
and  strong  and  in  a  position  to  give  in  the  name  of  Russia  our  consent  to  join 
the  negotiations.  In  your  note  to  Germany  you  demand  the  evacuation  of 
occupied  territories  as  a  condition  which  must  precede  the  armistice  during 
which  peace  negotiations  shall  begin,  ^^■e  are  ready.  Mr.  President,  to  conclude 
an  armistice  on  these  conditions,  and  we  ask  you  to  notify  us  when  you,  Mr. 
President,  and  your  Allies  intend  to  remove  troops  from  Murmansk,  Archangel 
and  Siberia.  You  refuse  to  conclude  an  armistice,  unless  Germany  will  stop 
the  outrages,  pillaging,  etc.,  during  the  evacuation  of  occupied  territories.  We 
allow  ourselves  therefore  to  draw  the  conclusion  that  you  and  your  allies  will 
order  the  Czecho-Slovaks  to  return  the  part  of  our  gold  reserve  fund  which 
they  seized  in  Kazan,  that  you  will  forbid  them  to  continue  as  heretofore  their 
acts  of  pillaging  and  outrage  against  the  workers  and  peasants  during  their 
forced  departure  (for  we  will  encourage  their  speedy  departure,  without  waiting 
for  your  order). 

Witli  regard  to  other  peace  terms,  namely,  that  the  Governments  which 
would  conclude  peace  must  express  the  will  of  their  people,  you  are  aware  that 
our  Government  fully  satisfies  this  condition,  our  Government  expresses  the 
will  of  the  Councils  of  Workmen's,  Peasants'  and  Red  Army  Deputies,  represent- 
ing at  least  eighty  per  cent  of  the  Russian  people.  This  cannot,  Mr.  President, 
be  said  about  your  Government.  But  for  the  sake  of  humanity  and  peace  we 
do  not  demand  as  a  prerequisite  of  geiieral  peace  negotiations  that  all  nations 
participating  In  the  negotiations  shall  be  represented  by  Councils  of  People's 
Commissaries  elected  at  a  Congress  of  Councils  of  Workmen's,  Peasants'  and 
Soldiers'  Deputies.  We  know  that  this  form  of  Government  will  soon  be  the 
general  form,  and  that  precisely  a  general  peace,  when  nations  will  no  more 
be  threatened  with  defeat,  will  leave  them  free  to  put  an  end  to  the  system 
and  the  clique  that  forced  upon  mankind  this  universal  slaughter,  and  which 
will,  in  spite  of  themselves,  surely  lead  the  tortured  peoples  to  create  Soviet 
Governments,  which  give  exact  expression  to  their  will. 

Agreeing  to  participate  at  present  in  negotiations  with  even  sucli  Govern- 
ments as  do  not  yet  express  the  will  of  the  people,  we  W(5uld  like  on  our  part 
to  find  out  from  you,  Mr.  President,  in  detail  what  is  your  conception  of  the 
League  of  Nations,  which  you  propose  as  the  crowning  work  of  peace.  You  de- 
mand the  independence  of  Poland,  Serbia,  P)elglum  and  freedom  for  the  peoples 
of  Austria-Hungary.  You  probably  mean  by  this  that  the  masses  of  the  people 
must  everywhere  first  become  the  masters  of  their  own  fate  in  order  to  unite 
afterwards  in  a  league  of  free  nations.  But  strangely  enough,  we  do  not  find 
among  your  demands  the  liberation  of  Ireland,  Egypt,  or  India,  nor  even  the 
liberation  of  the  Philippines,  and  we  would  be  very  sorry  to  learn  that  these 
people  should  be  denied  the  opportunity  to  participate  together  with  us,  through 
their  freely  elected  representatives,  in  the  organization  of  the  League  of  Nations. 

We  would  also,  Mr.  President,  very  much  like  to  know,  before  the  negotia- 
tions with  regard  to  the  formation  of  a  League  of  Nations  have  begun,  what 
is  your  conception  of  the  solution  of  many  economic  questions  which  are  essen- 
tial for  the  cause  of  future  peace.  You  do  not  mention  the  war  expenditures — 
this  unbearable  Imrden,  wliich  the  masses  would  have  to  carry,  unless  the  league 
of  nations  should  renounce  payments  on  the  loans  to  the  capitalists  of  all  coun- 
tries. You  know  as  well  as  we,  Mr.  President,  that  this  war  is  the  outcome  of 
the  policies  of  all  capitalistic  nations,  that  the  governments  of  all  countries 
were  continually  piling  up  armaments,  that  the  ruling  groups  of  all  civilized 
nations  pursued  a  policy  of  annexations,  and  that  it  would,  therefore,  be  ex- 
tremely unjust  if  the  masses,  having  paid  for  these  policies  with  millions  of 
lives  and  with  economic  ruin,  should  vet  pay  to  those  who  are  really  responsible 


for  tbe  war  a  tribute  for  their  policies  ^vliicli  resulted  in  all  these  couutles8 

We  propose  therefore,  Mr.  President,  the  annulment  of  the  war  loans  as  the 
basis  of  the  League  of  Nations.  As  to  the  restoration  of  the  countries  that 
were  laid  waste  by  the  war,  we  believe  it  is  only  just  that  all  nations,  should 
aid  for  this  purpose,  the  unfortunate  Belgium,  Poland,  and  Servia,  and  however 
poor  and  ruined  Russia  seems  to  be,  she  is  ready  on  her  part  to  do  evei-ything 
she  can  to  help  these  victims  of  the  war,  and  she  expects  that  American  capital, 
which  has  not  at  all  suffered  from  this  war  and  has  even  made  many  billions  in 
profits  out  of  it,  will  do  its  part  to  help  tliese  peoples. 

But  the  League  of  Nations  should  not  only  liquidate  the  present  war,  but  also 
make  impossible  any  wars  in  the  future.  You  must  be  aware,  Mr.  President, 
that  the  capitalists  of  your  country  are  planning  to  apply  in  the  future  the  same 
policies  of  encroachment  and  of  super  profits  in  China  and  in  Siberia,  and  that, 
fearing  competition  from  Japanese  capitalists,  they  are  preparing  a  military 
force  to  overcome  the  resistance  which  they  may  meet  from  Japan.  You  are  no 
doubt  aware  of  similar  plans  of  the  capitalists  ruling  circles  of  other  countries 
with  regard  to  other  territories  and  other  peoples.  Knowing  this,  you  will 
have  to  agree  with  us  that  the  factories,  mines  and  banks  must  not  be  left  in 
the  hands  of  private  persons,  who  have  always  made  use  of  the  vast  means  of 
production  created  by  the  masses  pt  the  people  to  export  products  and  capital  to 
foreign  countries  in  order  to  reap  super  profits  in  return  for  the  benefits  forced 
on  them,  their  struggle  for  spoils  resulting  in  imperialistic  wars.  We  propose, 
therefore,  Mr.  President,  that  the  League  of  Nations  be  based  on  the  expro- 
priation of  the  capitalists  of  all  countries.  In  your  country,  Mr.  President, 
the  banks  and  the  Industries  are  In  the  hands  of  such  a  small  group  of  capi- 
talists that,  as  your  personal  friend.  Colonel  Ilobbins,  assured  us,  the  arrest  of 
twenty  heads  of  capitalistic  cliques  and  the  transfer  of  the  control,  which  by 
characteristic  capitalistic  methods  they  have  come  to  possess,  into  the  hands  of 
the  masses  of  the  people  is  all  that  would  be  required  to  destroy  the  principal 
source  of  new  wars. 

If  you  will  agree  to  this,  Mr.  President — if  the  source  of  future  wars  will 
thus  be  destroyed,  then  there  can  be  no  doubt  that  it  would  be  easy  to  remove 
all  economic  barriers  and  that  all  peoples,  controlling  their  means  of  produc- 
tion, will  be  vitally  Interested  in  exchanging  the  things  they  do  not  need  for 
the  things  they  need.  It  will  then  be  a  question  of  an  exchange  of  products 
between  nations,  each  of  which  produces  what  It  can  best  produce,  and  the 
League  of  Nations  will  be  a  league-  of  mutual  aid  of  the  toiling  masses.  It 
will  then  be  easy  to  reduce  the  armed  forces  to  the  limit  necessary  for  the 
maintenance  of  Internal  safety. 

We  know  very  well  that  the  selfish  capitalist  class  will  attempt  to  create 
this  internal  menace,  just  as  the  Russian  landlords  and  capitalists  are  now 
attempting  with  the  aid  of  American,  English,  and  French  armed  forces  to  take 
the  factories  from  the  workers  and  the  land  from  the  peasants.  But,  if  the 
American  workers.  Inspired  by  your  Idea  of  a  League  of  Nations,  will  crush 
the  I'esistance  of  the  American  capitalists  as  we  have  crushed  the  resistance 
of  the  Russian  capitalists,  then  neither  the  German  nor  any  other  capitalists 
will  be  a  serious  menace  to  the  victorious  working  class,  and  it  will  then  suf- 
fice, if  every  member  of  the  commonwealth,  working  six  hours  in  the  factory, 
spends  two  hoiirs  daily  for  several  months  in  learning  the  use  of  arms,  so  that 
the  whole  people  will  know  how  to  overcome  the  internal  menace. 

And  so,  Mr.  President,  though  we  have  had  experience  with  your  promises, 
we  nevertheless,  accept  as  a  basis  your  proposals  about  peace  and  about  a 
League  of  Nations.  We  have  tried  to  develop  them  in  order  to  avoid  results 
which  would  contradict  your  promises,  as  was  the  case  with  your  promise  of 
assistance  to  Russia.  We  have  tried  to  formulate  with  precision  your  pro- 
posals on  the  League  of  Nations  in  order  that  the  League  of  Nations  should 
not  turn  out  to  be  a  league  of  capitalists  against  the  nations.  Should  you  not 
agree  with  us,  we  have  no  objection  to  an  "  open  discussion  of  your  peac-e 
terms,"  as  your  first  point  of  your  peace  program  demands.  If  you  will  accept 
our  proposals  as  a  basis,  we  will  easily  agree  on  the  details. 

But  there  is  another  possibility.  We  have  had  dealings  with  the  President 
of  the  Archangel  attack  and  the  Siberian  invasion  and  we  have  also  had  deal- 
ings with  the  President  of  the  League  of  Nations  Peace  Program.  Is  not  the 
first  of  these — the  real  President  actually  directing  the  policies  of  the  American 
capitalist  government?     Is  not  the  American  Government  rather  a  Government 


of  the  American  corporations,  of  the  American  industrial,  commercial  and  rail' 
road  trusts,  of  the  American  banks — in  short,  a  (Jovernment  of  the  American 
capitalists?  And  Is  it  not  possible  that  the  proposals  of  this  Government  about 
the  creation  of  a  League  of  Nations  will  result  in  new  clialns  for  the  peoples. 
In  the  organization  of  an  International  trust  for  the  exploitation  of  the  workers 
and  the  suppression  of  weak  nations?  In  this  latter  case,  Mr.  President,  you 
will  not  be  in  a  iwsition  to  reply  to  our  questions,  and  we  will  say  to  the 
workers  of  all  countries :  Beware !  Millions  of  your  brothers,  thrown  at  each 
others  throats  by  the  bourgeoisie  of  all  countries  are  still  perishing  on  the 
battlefields  and  the  capitalists  leaders  are  already  trying  to  come  to  an  under- 
standing for  the  purpose  of  suppressing  with  united  forces  those  that  remain 
alive,  when  they  call  to  account  the  criminals  who  caused  the  war ! 

However,  Mr.  President,  since  we  do  not  at  all  desire  to  wage  war  against  the 
United  States,  even  though  your  Government  has  not  yet  been  replaced  by  a 
Council  of  People's  Commissaries  and  your  post  is  not  yet  taken  by  Eugene 
Debs,  whom  you  have  imprisoned ;  since  we  do  not  at  all  desire  to  wage  war 
against  England,  even  though  the  cabinet  of  Mr.  Lloyd-George  has  not  yet 
been  replaced  by  a  Council  of  People's  Commissaries  with  MacLean  at  its 
head ;  since  we  have  no  desire  to  wage  war  against  B>ance,  even  tliough  the 
capitalist  Government  of  Gleraenceau  has  not  yet  been  replaced  by  a  workmen's 
Government  of  Merheim,  just  as  we  have  concluded  peace  with  the  imperialist 
government  of  Germany,  with  Emperor  AYilhelm  at  its  head,  whom  you,  Mr. 
President,  hold  in  no  greater  esteem  than  we,  the  ^\'ln•kmen's  and  Peasant's 
Revolutionary  Government  hold  you,  we  finally  propose  to  you,  Mr.  President, 
that  you  take  up  with  your  Allies  the  following  questions  and  give  us-  precise 
and  business-like  rejilies:  Do  the  governments  of  the  United  States,  England 
and  France  intend  to  cease  demanding  the  blood  of  tlie  Russian  people  and 
lives  of  Russian  citizens,  if  the  Russian  people  will  agree  to  pay  them  a  ransom, 
such  as  a  man  who  has  been  suddenly  attacked  pays  to  the  one  who  attacked 
him?  If  so,  just  what  tribute  do  the  governments  of  the  United  States,  Eng- 
land and  France  demand  of  the  Russian  people?  Do  they  demand  concessions, 
that  the  railways,  mines,  gold  deposits,  etc.,  shall  be  handed  over  to  them  on 
certain  conditions,  or  do  they  demand  territorial  concessions,  stome  part  of 
Siberia  or  Caucasia,  or  ])eriiaps  the  Murmansk  coast? 

We  expect  from  you,  Mr.  President,  that  you  will  definitely  state  what  you 
and  your  Allies  demand,  and  also  whether  the  allowance  between  your  govern- 
ment and  the  governments  of  the  other  entente  powers  is  in  the  nature  of 
a  combination  which  could  be  compared  with  a  corporation  for  drawing  divi- 
dends from  Russia,  or  does  your  government  and  the  other  governments  of  the 
entante  powers  have  each  separate  and  special  demands,  and  what  are  they? 
Particularly  are  we  interested  to  know  the  demands  of  your  French  Allies 
with  regard  to  the  three  billions  of  rubles  which  the  Paris  banlrers  loaned  to 
the  Government  of  the  Czar — the  oppressor  of  Russia  and  the  enemy  of  his 
own  people?  And  you,  Mr.  President,  as  well  as  your  French  Allies  surely 
know  that  even  if  you  and  your  allies  should  succeed  in  enslaving  and  covering 
with  blood  the  whole  territory  of  Russia — which  will  not  be  allowed  by  our 
heroic  revolutionary  Red  Army — that  even  in  that  case  the  Russian  people, 
worn  out  by  the  war  and  not  having  sufficient  time  to  take  advantage  of  the 
beneljts  of  the  Soviet  rule  to  elevate  their  national  economy,  will  be  unable  to 
pay  to  the  French  bankers  the  full  tribute  for  the  billions  that  were  used  by 
the  Government  of  the  Czar  for  puiiaoses  Injurious  to  the  people.  Do  your 
French  allies  demand  that  a  part  of  this  tribute  be  paid  in  installments,  and 
if  so.  what  part,  and  do  they  anticipate  that  their  claims  will  result  In  similar 
claims  by  other  creditors  of  the  infamous  Government  of  the  Czar  which  has 
been  overthrown  by  the  Russian  people?  We  can  hardly  think  that  your  Gov- 
eernment  and  your  allies  are  without  a  ready  answer,  when  your  and  their 
troops  are  trying  to  advance  on  our  territory  with  the  evident  object  of  seizing 
and  enslaving  our  country. 

The  Rus.slan  people  through  the  People's  Red  Army,  are  guarding  their 
territory  and  are  bravely  fighting  against  your  Invasion  and  against  the  attack 
of  your  Allies.  But  your  Government  and  the  Governments  of  the  other  powers 
of  the  Entente  undoubtedly  have  well  prepared  plans,  for  the  sake  of  which  you 
are  shedding  the  blood  of  your  soldiers.  We  expect  that  you  will  state  your 
demands  very  clearly  and  definitely.  Should  we,  however,  be  disappointed, 
should  you  fall  to  reply  to  our  quite  definite  and  precise  questions,  we  wIU 
draw  the  only  possible  conclusion — that  we  ari'  justified   in  the   assumption 


that  your  Government  and  the  Governments  of  your  Allies  desire  to  get  from 
the  Russian  people  a  tribute  both  in  money  and  in  natural  resources  of  Russia, 
and  territorial  concessions  as  well.  We  vdll  tell  this  to  the  Russian  people  as 
well  as  to  the  tolling  masses  of  other  countries,  and  the  absence  of  a  reply 
from  you  will  serve  for  us  as  a  silent  reply.  The  Russian  people  will  then 
understand  that  the  demands  of  your  Government  and  of  the  Governments 
of  your  Allies  are  so  severe  and  vast  that  you  do  not  even  want  to  communi- 
cate them  to  the  Russian  Government. 

People's  Commissary  of  Foreign  Affairs, 


Mr.  Stevenson.  The  principal  publications  of  the  Bolshevikl  in  New  York 
City  are  the  Novy  Mir 

Senator  Nelson.  In  what  language  is  that? 

Mr.  STEVENSON'.  Russian.     The  Workman  and  Peasant. 

Senator  Overman.  What  does  "Novy  Mir"  mean? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  The  New  Era  or  New  Life.  These  are  the  accredited  official 
organs  in  this  country  of  the  Bolsheviki  government. 

The  Bolsheviki  have  organized  in  this  country  Soviets.  Each  industrial  cen- 
ter in  the  United  States  now  has  its  soviet. 

Senator  Nelson.  Is  that  so? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  And,  of  course,  the  plan  of  the  propagandists  is  to  extend 
their  influence  until  they  can  take  on  the  functions  of  government. 

Senator  Nelson.  What  is  their  system  of  organization  in  each  case? 

Mr.  Stex^enson.  It  is  merely  the  election  of  delegates  to  a  central  committee. 
That  is  what  the  soviet  is. 

Senator  Nelson.  Have  they  not  local  organizations?  Have  they  not  a  local 

Mr.  Stevenson.  The  central  committee  is  the  governing  committee;  it  acts 
as  the  government. 

Senator  Nelson.  Consisting  of  delegates  from  these  various  points? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Yes. 

Senator  O^-ekman.  The  idea,  then,  is  to  form  a  government  within  this  Gtov- 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Precisely. 

Senator  Overman.  And  to  overthrow  this  Government? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Precisely.  I  think  that  the  record  should  contain  a  copy 
of  the  constitution  of  the  Russian  Socialist  Federated  Soviet  Republic. 

Senator  Overman.  Will  you  give  us  the  names  of  some  of  the  heads  of  this 
soviet  government? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  In  this  country? 

Senator  Overman.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Those  are  largely  foreign^-s.  They  are  largely  Russians 
over  here  now. 

Senator  Nelson.  That  constitution  ought  to  go  in,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Senator  Overman.  Let  me  see  that. 

Mr.  Stevenson  (handing  paper  to  the  chairman).  You  will  find  some  extraor- 
dinarily interesting  matter  there.  The  disfranchisement  of  all  persons  who 
employ  anybody  or  pay  anyone  any  wages ;  anyone  who  does  that  can  not  vote 
in  the  Soviet  government.  You  will  find  some  very  interesting  political  ideas 

Senator  Nelson.  I  think  that  would  be  a  good  thing  to  go  into  the  record. 

Senator  Overman.  Yes;  this  will  go  in. 

(The  constitution  referred  to  is  printed  in  the  record,  as  follows:) 

[Outside  of  front  cover.] 

Since  intelligent  judgment  on  the  complex  problems  of  Russia  requires  some 
knowledge  of  the  purpose  and  methods  of  the  Soviet  Government  (which  is  one 
of  those  rare  things — a  new  event  in  history),  we  believe  that  our  readers  will 
be  glad  to  have  this  opportunity  to  study  critically  an  English  translation 
(taken  from  a  recent  issue  of  the  New  York  Tribune)  of  the  constitution  of 
the  Soviets.  It  has  been  generally  reco^ized  in  America  that  so  much  progress 
has  been  made  in  Russia  in  working  out  this  new  conception  of  the  state  and 


its  government.  Even  if  the  present  Soviet  Government  should  fall,  or  should 
learn  by  experience  to  modify  some  of  its  methods,  the  ideas  embodied  In  this 
document  are  from  henceforth  a  mighty  force  to  be  reckoned  with  in  the  world; 
and  the  document  itself  may  well  come  to  rank  with  the  great  declarations  of 
history.     1918. 

[Inside  of  front  cover.]' 

Read  the  following  books: 

The  Soviets  at  Work,  by  Nicolai  Lenin. 

Political  Parties  in  Russia,  Nicolai  Lenin. 

Our  Revolution,  Leon  Trotzky. 

On  Behalf  of  Russia,  Arthur  Ransom. 

The  Soul  of  the  Russian  Revolution,  by  M.  Olgin. 


The  Soviet  Constitution  and  Declabation  or  Rights  and  Duties. 



[Approved  by  the  Commission  of  the  Central  Committee  for  Drafting  the  Constitution  of 

the  Soviets.] 

We,  the  laboring  people  of  Russia,  workmen,  peasants,  cossacks,  soldiers  and 
sailors,  united  in  the  councils  of  the  Workmen's,  Soldiers',  Peasants'  and  Cos- 
sacks' delegates,  declare  in  the  persons  of  our  plenipotentiary  representatives, 
who  have  assembled  at  the  Pan-Russian  Congress  of  Soviets,  the  following  rights 
and  duties  of  the  working  and  despoiled  people: 

The  economic  subjection  of  the  laboring  classes  by  the  possessors  of  the 
means  and  instruments  of  production,  of  the  soil,  machines,  factories,  railways, 
and  raw  materials — those  basic  sources  of  life — appears  as  the  cause  of  all  sorts 
of  political  oppression,  economic  spoliation,  intellectual  and  moral  enslavement 
of  the  laboring  masses. 

The  economic  liberation  of  the  working  classes  from  the  yoke  of  capitalism 
represents,  therefore,  the  greatest  task  of  our  time,  and  must  be  accomplished 
at  all  costs. 

The  liberation  of  the  working  classes  must  and  can  be  the  work  of  those 
classes  themselves,  who  must  unite  for  that  purpose  in  the  Soviets  of  the  Work- 
men's, Soldiers',  Peasants',  and  Cossacks'  delegates. 

In  order  to  put  an  end  to  every  ill  that  oppresses  humanity  and  in  order  to 
secure  to  labor  all  the  rights  belonging  to  it,  we  recognize  that  it  is  necessary 
to  destroy  the  existing  social  structure,  which  rests  upon  private  property  in 
the  soil  and  the  means  of  production,  in  the  spoliation  and  oppression  of  the 
laboring  masses,  and  to  substitute  for  it  a  Socialist  structure.  Then  the  whole 
earth,  its  surface  and  its  depth,  and  all  the  means  and  instruments  of  produc- 
tion, created  by  the  toll  of  the  laboring  classes,  will  belong  by  right  of  common 
property  to  the  whole  people,  who  are  united  in  a  fraternal  association  of 

Only  by  giving  society  a  Socialist  structure  can  the  division  of  it  into  hostile 
classes  be  destroyed,  only  so  can  we  put  an  end  to  the  spoliation  and  oppression 
of  men  by  men,  of  class  by  class ;  and  all  men — ^placed  upon  an  equality  as  to 
rights  and  duties — will  contribute  to  the  welfare  of  society  according  to  their 
strength  and  capacities,  and  will  receive  from  society  according  to  their  require- 

The  complete  liberation  of  the  laboring  classes  from  spoliation  and  oppres- 
sion appears  as  a  problem,  not  locally  or  nationally  limited,  but  as  a  world 

^NoTE  BY  Majoe  Humes  at  time  of  submitting  this  excerpt  for  inclusion  in 
RECORD  OF  "  Bolshevik  Propaganda." — "  The  above  form  of  constitution  is  apparently  a 
preliminary  draft  of  that  instrument.  The  final  draft  was  adopted  on  July  10,  1918, 
and  appears  in  the  present  volume  immediately  preceding  the  Appendix  at  the  end. 


problem  and  it  can  be  carried  out  to  Its  end  only  through  the  united  exertions 
of  workingmen  of  all  lands.  Therefore,  the  sacred  duty  rests  upon  the  working 
class  of  every  country  to  come  to  the  assistance  of  the  workingmen  of  other 
countries  who  have  risen  against  the  capitalistic  structure  of  society. 

A  Dictatorship  of  the  Proletariat. 

The  working  class  of  Russia,  true  to  the  legacy  of  the  Internationale,  over- 
threw their  bourgeoisie  in  October,  1917,  and,  with  the  help  of  the  poorest 
peasantry,  seized  the  powers  of  government.  In  establishing  a  dictatorship  of 
the  proletariat  and  the  poorest  peasantry,  the  working  class  resolved  to  wrest 
capital  from  the  hands  of  the  bourgeoisie,  to  unite  all  the  means  of  produc- 
tion in  the  hands  of  the  Socialist  state  and  thus  to  increase  as  rapidly  as 
possible  the  mass  of  productive  forces. 

The  first  steps  in  that  direction  were: 

Abolition  of  property  in  land,  declaration  of  the  entire  soil  to  be  national 
property,  and  the  distribution  of  it  to  the  workmen  without  purchase  money, 
upon  the  principle  of  equality  in  utilizing  it. 

Declaration  as  national  property  of  all  forests,  treasures  of  the  earth  and 
waters  of  general  public  utility,  and  all  the  belongings,  whether  animals  or 
things,  of  the  model  farms  and  agricultural  undertakings. 

Introduction  of  a  law  for  the  control  of  workmen  and  for  the  nationalization 
of  a  number  of  branches  of  industry.  , 

Nationalization  of  the  banks,  which  heretofore  were  one  of  the  mightiest  in- 
struments for  the  spoliation  of  society  by  capital. 

Repudiation  of  the  loans  which  were  contracted  by  the  czar's  government 
upon  the  account  of  the  Russian  people. 

Arming  of  the  laborers  and  peasants  and  disarming  of  the  propertied  classes. 

Besides  all  this,  the  introduction  of  a  universal  obligation  to  work,  for  the 
purpose  of  eliminating  the  parasitic  strata  of  society,  is  planned. 

As  soon  as  production  shall  have  been  consolidated  in  the  hands  of  the  work- 
ing masses,  united  in  a  gigantic  association,  in  which  the  development  of  every 
single  Individual  will  appear  as  the  condition  for  the  development  of  all 
men ;  as  soon  as  the  old  bourgeois  state  with  its  classes  and  class  hatred,  is 
definitely  superseded  by  a  firmly  established  Socialist  society  which  rests  upon 
universal  labor,  upon  the  application  and  distribution  of  all  productive  forcea 
according  to  plan,  and  upon  the  solidarity  of  all  its  members,  then,  along  with 
the  disappearance  of  class  differences,  will  disappear  also  the  necessity  for  the 
dictatorship  of  the  working  classes  and  for  state  power  as  the  instrument  of 
class  domination. 

These  are  the  immediate  internal  problems  of  the  Soviet  republic. 

Tlw  Tnternntional  Policies  of  the  fioviet  Republic. 

In  its  relation  to  other  nations  the  Soviet  republic  stands  upon  the  principles 
of  the  first  Internationale,  which  recognized  truth,  justice  and  morality  as  the 
foundation  of  its  relations  to  all  humanity,  independent  of  race,  religion,  or 

The  Socialist  Soviet  republic  recognizes  that  wherever  one  member  of  the 
fiimily  of  humanity  is  oppressed  all  humanity  is  oppressed,  and  for  that  reason 
it  proclaims  and  defends  to  the  utmost  the  right  of  all  nations  to  self- 
determination  and  thereby  to  the  free  choice  of  their  destiny. 

It  accords  that  right  to  all  nations  without  exception,  even  to  the  hundreds 
of  millions  of  laborers  in  Asia,  Africa,  in  all  colonies  and  the  small  countries 
who,  down  to  the  present  day,  have  been  oppressed  and  despoiled  without  pity 
by  the  ruling  classes,  by  the  so-called  civilized  nations. 

The  Soviet  republic  has  transformed  into  deeds  the  principles  proclaimed 
before  its  existence.  The  right  of  Poland  to  self-determination  having  been 
recognized  in  the  first  days  of  the  March  revolution,  after  the  overturn  in 
October  the  Soviet  republic  proclaimed  the  full  independence,  of  Finland  and 
the  right  of  the  Ukraine,  of  Armenia,  of  all  the  people  populating  the  territory 
of  the  former  Russian  empire,  to  their  full  self-determination. 

In  its  efforts  to  create  a  league — free  and  voluntary,  and  for  that  reason  all 
the  more  complete  and  secure — of  the  working  classes  of  all  the  peoples  of 
Russia,  the  Soviet  republic  declared  Itself  a  federal  republic  and  offered  to  the 
laborers  and  peasants  of  every  nation  the  opportunity  to  enter  as  members  with 


equal  rights  into  tlie  fraternal  family  of  the  Republic  of  Soviets  (through  action 
taken)  independently  in  the  plenipotentiary  sessions  of  their  Soviets,  to  any 
extent  and  in  whatever  form  they  might  wish. 

The  Soviet  RcpuWc's  Basis  of  Peace. 

The  Soviet  republic  has  declared  war  upon  war,  not  only  in  words,  but  also 
in  deeds ;  and  in  doing  so  it  formally,  and  in  the  name  of  the  working  masses 
of  Russia,  announced  its  complete  renunciation  of  all  efforts  at  conquest  and 
annexation,  as  well  as  all  thought  of  oppressing  small  nations.  At  the  same 
time,  the  Soviet  republic,  to  prove  the  sincerity  of  the  purposes,  broke  openly 
with  the  policy  of  secret  diplomacy  and  secret  treaties,  and  it  proposed  to  all 
belligerent  nations  to  conclude  a  general  democratic  peace  without  annexations 
or  indemnities,  upon  the  basis  of  the  free  self-determination  of  peoples.  That 
standpoint  is  still  firmly  adhered  to  be  the  Soviet  republic. 

Compelled  by  the  policy  of  violence  practised  by  the  imperialisms  of  all  the 
world,  the  Soviet  republic  is  marshalling  its  forces  for  resistance  against  the 
growing  demands  of  the  robber  packs  of  international  capital,  and  it  looks  to 
the  inevitable  rebellion  of  the  working  classes  for  the  solution  of  the  question 
of  how  the  nations  can  live  peacefully  together.  The  international  Socialist 
rebellion  alone,  in  which  the  laboring  people  of  each  state  overthrow  their  own 
imperialists,  puts  an  end  to  war  once  for  all,  and  creates  the  conditions  for  the 
full  realization  of  the  solidarity  of  the  working  people  of  the  entire  world. 

The  Rights  and  Duties  of  the  Workers. 

Taking  its  stand  upon  the  principles  of  the  Internationale,  the  Soviet  republic 
recognizes  that  there  can  be  no  rights  without  duties,  and  no  duties  without 
rights,  and,  therefore,  proclaims  at  the  same  time,  with  the  rights  of  the  working 
classes  in  a  rejuvenated  society,  the  following  outline  of  their  duties : 

To  fight  everywhere  and  without  sparing  their  strength  for  the  complete 
power  of  the  working  classes,  and  to  stamp  out  all  attempts  to  restore  the 
dominion  of  the  despoilers  and  oppressors. 

To  assist  with  all  their  strength  in  overcoming  the  depression  caused  by  the 
war  and  the  opposition  of  the  bourgeoisie,  and  to  cooperate  in  bringing  about 
as  speedy  a  recovery  as  possible  of  production  in  all  branches  of  economy. 

To  subordinate  their  personal  and  group  interests  to  the  Interests  of  all  the 
working  people  of  Russia  and  the  whole  world. 

To  defend  the  republic  of  the  Soviets,  the  only  Socialist  bulwark  in  the 
capitalistic  world,  from  the  attacks  of  international  imperialism  without  spar- 
ing their  own  strength  and  even  their  own  lives. 

To  keep  in  mind  always  and  everywhere  the  sacred  duty  of  liberating  labor 
from  the  domination  of  capital,  and  to  strive  for  the  establishment  of  a  world- 
embracing  fraternal  league  of  working  people. 

In  proclaiming  these  rights  and  duties  the  Russian  Socialist  Republic  of  the 
Soviets  calls  upon  the  working  classes  of  the  entire  world  to  accomplish  their 
task  to  the  very  end,  and  in  the  faith  that  the  Socialist  ideal  will  soon  be 
achieved  to  write  upon  their  flags  the  old  battle  cry  of  the  working  people. 
Proletarians  of  all  lands  unite 
I/ong  live  the  Socialist  world  revolution ! 




The  fundamental  problem  of  the  constitution  of  the  Russian  Socialist  Federal 
republic  involves,  in  view  of  the  present  transition  period,  the  establishment 
of  a  dictatorship  of  the  urban  and  rural  proletariat  and  the  poorest  peasantry, 
the  power  of  the  pan-Russian  Soviet  authority,  the  crushing  of  the  bourgeoisie, 
the  abolition  of  the  spoliation  of  men  by  men  and  the  introduction  of  Socialism 
in  which  there  will  be  neither  a  division  into  classes  nor  a  state  authority. 

The  Russian  republic  is  the  free  Socialist  society  of  all  the  working  people 
of  Russia,  united  in  the  urban  and  rural  Soviets. 

The  Soviets  of  those  regions  which  diiferentiate  themselves  by  a  special  form 
of  existence  and  national   character  will  be  united  into  autonomous  regional 


associations  ruled  by  tlie  sessioDS  of  the  Soviets  of  tliose  regions  and  their  own 
executive  organs. 

Tlie  Soviet  associations  of  the  regions  participate  in  the  Russian  Socialist 
republic  upon  the  basis  of  federation,  at  tlie  head  of  whch  stands  the  pan- 
Eussian  session  of  the  Soviets  and,  in  periods  between  the  sessions,  the  pan- 
Knssian  central  executive  committee. 



The  right  to  vote  and  to  be  elected  to  the  Soviets  is  enjoyed  by  the  following 
•citizens  of  the  Russian  Socialists  Soviet  republic  of  both  sexes  who  shall  have 
completed  their  eighteenth  year  by  the  day  of  election : 

All  who  have  acquired  the  means  of  living  through  labor  that  is  productive 
and  useful  to  society  and  are  members  of  the  trades  associations,  namely : 

(a)  Laborers  and  employees  of  classes  who  are  employed  in  industry,  trade 
and  agriculture. 

(b)  Peasants  and  Cossack  agricultural  laborers  who  hire  no  labor. 

(c)  Employees  and  laborers  In  the  offices  of  the  Soviet  government. 

(d)  Soldiers  of  the  army  and  navy  of  the  Soviets. 

(e)  Citizens  of  the  two  previous  categories  who  have  to  any  degree  lost 
their  capacity  to  work. 

The  following  pei-pons  enjoy  neithei-  the  right  to  vote  nor  to  be  voted  for, 
even  though  they  belong  to  one  of  the  categories  enumerated  above,  namely : 

Persons  who  employ  hired  labor  in  order  to  obtain  from  it  an  increase  of 
profits ; 

Persons  who  have  an  income  without  doing  any  work,  such  as  interest  from 
■capital,  receipts  from  property,  and  so  on. 

Private  merchants,  trade  and  commercial  agents ; 

Employes  of  communities  for  religious  worship ; 

Employes  and  agents  of  the  former  police,  the  gendarmerie  corps  and  the 
Ochrana ;   also  members  of  the  dynasty  that  formerly  ruled  Russia ; 

Persons  who  have  in  legal  form  been  declared  demented  or  mentally  deficient 
and  also  deaf  and  dumb  persons ; 

Persons  who  have  been  punished  for  selfish  or  dishonorable  misdemeanors. 



The  government  is  based  upon  the  smallest  settlements  (villages  and  ham- 
lets), the  inhabitants  of  which  may  elect  one  representative  to  each  100 

The  rural  Soviets  are  under  the  authority  of  the  Soviets  of  the  Wolosts  (dis- 
tricts), and  these  latter  under  the  Soviets  of  the  TJjesd  (larger  regions). 

The  urban  and  Ujesd  Soviets  elect  delegates  to  .sessions  of  the  government 
•of  Oblast  Soviets.  Each  of  these  bodies  chooses  independently  its  own  execu- 
tive committee. 



The  Pan-Russian  Congress  of  Soviets  consists  of  representatives  of  the  urban 
Soviets  (one  delegate  for  each  25,000  voters)  and  representatives  of  the  gov- 
•ernment  congresses  (one  delegate  for  each  125,000  voters). 

The  Pan-Russian  Congress  of  Soviets  will  be  called  together  by  the  Pan- 
Russian  central  executive  committee  at  least  twice  a  year. 

The  extraordinary  Pan-Russian  Congress  will  be  called  together  by  the  Pan- 
Russian  central  executive  committee  upon  its  own  initiative  or  upon  the  demand 
of  the  Soviets  of  districts  embracing  at  least  one-third  of  the  entire  population 
•of  the  republic. 

The  Pan-Russian  Congress  of  Soviets  elects  the  central  executive  committee 
of  not  more  than  200  members. 

The  Pan-Russian  executive  committee  Is  responsible  to  the  Pan-Russian 
Congress  of  Soviets. 

85723—19 3 


The  Pan-Russian  Congress  of  Soviets  is  the  highest  power  in  the  republic. 
In  the  period  between  its  sessions  that  power  is  represented  by  the  Pan-Russian 
central  executive  committee. 

Eleven  Administrative  Departments. 

It  is  further  provided  that  the  central  executive  committee  shall  be  divided 
Into  11  colleges  for  administrative  functions.    There  are : 

Foreign  policies. 

Defense  of  the  country  (army  and  nav.y). 

Social  order  and  security  (militia),  census  of  the  people,  registration  of  so- 
cieties and  associations,  fire  department,  insurance,  organization  of  the  Soviets. 


Public  economy  (with  subsections  for  agriculture.  Industry,  and  trade, 
finances,  railways,  food  supply,  state  property  and  construction). 

Labor  and  social  welfare. 

Education  and  enlightenment  of  the  people. 

Public  health. 

Post,  telegraph  and  telephone. 

Federal  and  national  affairs. 

Control  and  auditing. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  One  could  continue  to  give  illustrations  of  the  speeches  made, 
and  illustrations  of  the  character  of  the  propaganda ;  but  I  hardly  think  It 
will  be  necessary  to  cumber  the  record  with  repetition. 

Senator  Nelson.  So  far,  with  the  exception  of  a  few  cases,  they  are  all 
confined  to  foreigners,  are  they  not? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Except  that  the  Socialists  approve  of  that  form  of  govern- 
ment in  a  great  many  instances. 

Senator  Nelson.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  And  express  sympathy  for  it  in  their  publications,  and  are 
cooperating  with  the  Bolsheviki.  A  casual  glance  at  some  of  the  Socialist 
papers  will  satisfy  anyone  that  that  is  the  case. 

Senator  Nelson.  There  is  a. community  of  interest? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Distinctly.  I  think  that  the  interesting  point  about  the 
Bolsheviki,  which  might  be  brought  out,  is  that  prior  to  their  propaganda  we 
had  these  difCerent  branches  of  radical  thought,  having  somewhat  conflicting 
principles  so  that  they  could  not  cooperate. 

Senator  Nelson.  Do  you  mean  by  that  that  instead  of  having  all  these  organ- 
izations of  various  kind.s  that  we  have  had  in  this  country,  the  Bolsheviki  in 
Russia  have  succeeded  in  concentrating  all  the  lye,  one  might  say,  into  one 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Precisely,  and  for  this  reason,  that  all  of  the  radical  people 
believe  that  everyone  should  belong  to  the  proletariat. 

Senator  Nelsox.  Yes. 

Jlr.  Stevenson.  The  Bolsheviki  say  "Everything  should  belong  to  the  prole- 
tariat ;  the  proletariat  should  take  control  now,  and  we  will  work  out  our  theory 
afterwards."  That  makes  a  common  platform  for  all  of  these  radical  groups 
to  stand  on,  because  the  anarchist  feels  that  if  the  proletariat  gets  control  he 
can  effect  his  theory,  and  the  same  is  true  of  the  various  other  groups  of 
radical  thinkers. 

Senator  Nelson.  Then  they  have  really  rendered  a  service  to  the  various 
classes  of  reformers  and  progressives  that  we  have  here  in  this  country,  have 
they  not? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Apparently. 

Senator  Nelson.  In  concentrating  their  doctrines  into  one  formula? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  They  have. 
*  *  *  *  *  *  * 

Maj.  Humes.  You  have  outlined  In  a  general  way  the  activities  of  the  radical 
groups  in  this  country,  and  from  your  study  of  the  cause  advocated  by  the 
radical  groups  in  this  country  that  you  have  referred  to  and  what  they  are 
contending  for,  and  your  knowledge  of  the  Soviet  government  In  Russia  and  the 
activities  in  Russia,  is  It  or  is  It  not  a  fact  that  the  elements  that  you  have 
referred  to  In  this  country  are  the  same  elements  that  are  now  at  war  with  and 
fighting  In  the  field  against  American  soldiers  in  Russia? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  They  are  the  same  element. 


Senator  Nelson.  They  are  not  exactly  the  same  crowd,  but  they  have  the 
same  gospel? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  They  are  even  the  same  crowd,  Senator,  because  John  Reed 
is  the  accredited  representative  of  that  government. 

Senator  Nht-son.  In  this  country? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  In  this  country ;  and  Albert  Rhys  Williams  admits  that  he 
is  a  propagandist  for  that  government  in  this  country. 

Senator  Nelson.  Is  Reed  the  official  representative  here? 

Mr.   Stevenson.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  Has  !ie  knocked  at  the  door  of  the  State  Department? 

Mr.  Ste\'enson.  I  believe  that  he  tried  to.  I  am  not  sure.  I  know  that  among 
his  effects,  however,  he  had  the  official  forms  supplied  by  the  Soviet  govern- 
ment for  Soviet  marriages  and  divorces,  and  all  that  sort  of  thing. 

Maj.  Humes.  What  are  the  forms  and  the  requirements  for  marriages  and^ 
divorces  under  the  Soviet  government  in  Russia? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Simply  a  statement  before  the  proper  commissary  that  they^ 
want  to  be  married  or  that  they  want  to  be  divorced. 

Senator  Overman.  Do  they  have  as  many  wives  as  they  want? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  In  rotation. 

Maj.  Humes.  Polygamy  is  recognized,  is  it? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  do  not  know  about  polygamy.  I  have  not  gone  into  the 
study  of  their  social  order  quite  as  fully  as  that. 

Senator  Nelson.  That  is,  a  man  can  marry  and  then  get  a  divorce  when  he 
gets  tired,  and  get  another  wife? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Precisely. 

Senator  Nelson.  And  keep  up  the  operation? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Yes. 

Senator  Overman.  Do  you  know  whether  they  teach  free  love? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  They  do. 

Ma.i.  Humes.  Can  a  divorce  be  secured  upon  the  application  of  one  party  to 
the  marriage,  or  has  it  to  be  by  agreement? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  think  by  one  party. 

Maj.  Humes.  By  either  party? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  By  either  party. 

Maj.  Humes.  They  can  renounce  the  marital  bond  at  will? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Precisely. 

Maj.  Humes.  Do  you  know  whether  or  not  the  element  that  is  active  in  this 
country  is  advocating  the  same  thing  here  in  their  public  speeches,  or  their 

Mr.  Stevenson.  In  considerable  of  the  literature  some  of  the  element  has 
done  so.    I  will  not  say  that  all  have. 

Maj.  Humes.  The  committee  asked  you  yesterday  to  rearrange  the  "Who's 
Who."  Has  that  work  been  completed  so  that  it  can  be  submitted  to  the  com- 

Mr.  Stevenson.  It  has  been  practically  completed,  Major. 

Maj.  Humes.  You  have  not  fully  completed  it? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  We  will  have  it  completed  very  shortly.  It  is  more  of  a  task 
than  I  realized  at  first. 

Maj.  Humes.  But  it  will  be  completed  for  submission  for  the -record  later  in 
the  day? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Yes. 

Maj.  Humes.  I  think  that  Is  all  I  have  to  ask,  unless  the  committee  has 
something  further. 

Senator  Overman.  You  think  this  movement  is  growing  constantly  in  this 
Mr.  Stevenson.  I  think  so. 

Senator  Overman.  Rapidly  or  slowly? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  think  it  is  growing  rather  rapidly,  if  we  can  gauge  it  by  the 
amount  of  literature  that  is  distributed  and  the  number  of  meetings  held.  It  is 
a  very  indefinite  sort  of  thing.  It  Is  extremely  difficult  to  state  how  effective 
these  sheets  are. 

Senator  Overman.  You  have  not  discovered  that  it  is  growing  among  the 
American  population;  it  is  more  among  the  foreigners,  is  it  not? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Well,  the  Rand  School  of  Social  Science  publishes  all  of  these 
works,  like  the  Letters  from  Lenin,  and  that  sort  of  thing,  and  that  is  made  up 
very  largely  of  American  citizens,  such  as  Charles  Andrew  Beard,  Henry  Wads- 
worth  Dana,  Algernon  Lee,  and  Scott  Nearing. 


Senator  Kklsox.  Do  you  reRarrl  this  propaganda  as  a  menace  to  our  country? 

Mr.  Ste\'enson'.  Decidedly.  I  conceive  it  to  be  the  gravest  menace  to  the 
country  to-day. 

Senator  Oveeman.  Tour  idea  is  that  these  people  are  conducting  In  tlii.s  coun- 
try an  organization  within  this  country  for  the  overthrow  of  its  Government, 
carrying  the  red  flag,  and  with  the  cry  "Down  with  capitalists"  as  the  prin- 
cipal teaching? 

Blr.  Stevenson.  That  is  true. 

Senator  Nelson.  You  have  given  us  a  good  diagnosis.  Now,  can  you  give  us 
any  remedy  or  suggest  any  remedy  for  It? 

Mr.  STE^fENsoN.  It  strikes  me,  Senator,  that  there  are  several  things  which 
might  be  done. 

In  the  first  place,  I  think  that  the  foreign  agitators  should  be  deported.  I 
think  the  bars  should  be  put  up  to  exclude  seditious  literature  from  the  country. 
There  is  practically  no  way  now  to  stop  this  material  from  coming  in. 

I  think  that  American  citizens  who  advocate  revolution  should  be  punished 
under  a  law  drawn  for  that  purpose. 

Senator  Overman.  Then  you  will  hear  somebody  in  the  Senate  talking  about 
freedom  of  speech,  will  you  not? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Yes ;  but  revolution  is  somewhat  different  from  freedom  of 

I  think,  however,  that  that  would  not  be  sufficient.  I  think  that  one  of  the 
things  that  must  be  carried  on  is  a  counter-propaganda  campaign. 

Senator  Nelson.  An  educational  campaign? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  A  campaign  of  education.  I  think  that  you  must  employ  the 
same  weapons  that  they  employ. 

The  thing  that  has  impressed  me  more  than  anything  else  is  that  you  see  all 
of  these  papers,  all  of  these  documents,  and  you  hear  of  all  of  these  speeches 
and  meetings,  and  you  do  not  see  a  scratch  of  the  pen  that  reaches  these  people, 
hardly,  to  disprove  the  arguments  which  are  put  forth  by  these  papers. 

Senator  Nelson.  But  do  you  find  much  in  our  public  press,  the  daily  press, 
the  weekly  press,  or  our  monthlies,  that  calls  the  attention  of  the  American 
people  to  these  things  and  points  out  the  danger  of  them? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Not  until  very  recently.  Senator.  We  have  seen  this  move- 
merit  grow  up  for  the  last  year  and  a  half  in  the  foreign-language  press,  and 
now  it  has  extended  to  all  these  other  papers.  It  seems  to  me  that  our  teachers 
in  the  public  schools  should  be  trained  to  combat  this  thing;  and  still  further, 
I  think  if  you  go  back  into  history  you  will  find  a  very  Interesting  parallel  in 
the  United  States  to  the  condition  which  we  find  here  now.  You  will  remember 
that  in  about  1791  or  1792  or  1793,  somewhere  along  there,  we  had  the  great 
whisky  rebellion  in  western  Pennsylvania.  That  whisky  rebellion  was  brought 
about  through  the  agitation  of  civil  liberties  bureaus,  which  were  the  reflex  of 
the  Jacobean  clubs  in  France,  and  In  the  Life  of  Washington  by  John  Marshall, 
he  makes  a  very  interesting  observation  on  the  fact  that  as  soon  as  Eobespiere 
was  guillotined  In  France,  and  the  Jacobean  clubs  lost  their  power.  Immediately 
in  the  United  States  there  came  the  dissolution  of  these  democratic  societies. 
And  it  seemed  to  be  that  there  was  a  lesson  for  us  to-day  In  that :  That  so  long 
as  the  Bolsheviki  control  and  dominate  the  millions  of  Europe,  so  long  that  is 
going  to  be  a  constant  menace  and  encouragement  to  the  radical  and  dissatisfied 
elements  In  this  country. 

*  *  K:  ^i-  *  ,(  4: 

Thereupon  the  subcommittee  proceeded  to  take  testimony. 


(The  witness  was  sworn  by  the  chairman.) 
Maj.  Humes.  Doctor,  where  do  you  reside? 
Mr.  HtTNTiNGTON.  With  my  parents  in  Elizabeth,  A".  J. 
Maj.  Humes.  Are  you  connected  with  any  department  of  the  Gov- 
ernment ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  With  the  Department  of  Commerce. 

Senator  WoLCOTT.  May  I  interrupt ?    Doctor,  what  is  your  degree? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Doctor  of  engineering. 


Maj.  Humes.  From  what  institution? 

Mr.  Huntington.  From  the  Royal  Technical  College,  Aix  la 
Chappelle,  in  Ehenish  Prussia. 

Ma].  Humes.  Have  you  a  degree  from  any  institution  in  this 
country  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  From  the  Columbia  University;  mechanical 

Senator  Wolcott.  Your  degree  from  the  foreign  institution  was  a 
postgraduate  degree? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes,  sir;  a  postgraduate  degree. 

Senator  Wolcott.  What  is  your  degree  from  Columbia  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Mechanical  engineer. 

Senator  Wolcott.  And  your  foreign  degree  is  doctor  of  engineer- 

Mr.  Huntington.  Engineering. 

Maj.  HuJiEs.  Were  you  attached  to  the  American  Embassy  in  Pet- 
rograd  at  any  time? 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  was  designated  to  the  embassy  as  the  commer- 
cial attache  of  the  Department  of  Commerce. 

Maj.  Humes.  During  what  period  of  time  were  you  serving  in 
that  capacity? 

Mr.  Huntington.  From  June,  1916,  until  September,  1918. 

Maj.  Humes.  Were  you  in  Russia  during  all  that  time? 

Mr.  Huntington.  During  the  entire  period. 

Maj.  Humes.  In  what  parts  of  Russia  were  you  during  that  period? 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  began  my  work  in  Petrograd.  Subsequently, 
following  instructions  of  my  department,  I  traveled  over,  in  the 
summer  of  1916,  very  nearly  the  whole  of  European  Russia,  that  is 
from  Archangel  as  far  south  as  Tiflis  in  the  Caucasus,  and  as  far 
west  as  Finland,  and  down  the  Volga. 

Senator  Nelson.  Were  you  in  the  Ukraine? 

Mr.  Huntington.  At  that  period,  yes,  sir ;  in  1916. 

Senator  Nelson.  And  in  Little  Russia  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes,  that  is  practically  the  same  thing. 

Senator  Nelson.  And  in  Great  Russia  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  In  Great  Russia,  yes.  That  is  the  part  which 
contains  Petrograd  and  Moscow. 

Senator  Overman.  Go  ahead. 

Mr.  Huntington.  Following  that  trip  about  Russia,  which  con- 
sumed something  over  two  months  at  that*  time,  I  remained  in  Petro- 
grad, only  visiting  Moscow  for  a  period  of  time ;  and  then  in  February 
of  1918,  when  the  allied  embassies  all  left  Petrograd,  I  was  sent  out 
by  Mr.  Francis,  the  American  ambassador,  to  Siberia.  So  that  in  the 
months  of  March  and  April,  1918, 1  lived  in  Siberia. 

I  returned  again,  on  instructions  of  the  ambassador,  from  Siberia 
to  Moscow,  arriving  there  about  the  1st  of  May,  1918,  and  remained 
in  Moscow  until  the  26th  of  August,  when  the  American  consulate 
general,  the  Italian  consulate  general,  the  military  mission,  with 
certain  exceptions,  one  man  in  each  case,  and  the  IBelgians,  repre- 
sented, as  it  finally  happened,  by  one  man,  their  consul  general,  were 
permitted  to  leave,  with  the  American  civilians,  the  confines  of  Rus- 

Senator  Nelson.  Wliere  did  you  go  in  Siberia? 


Mr.  HuNTixGTOx.  Primarily  to  Irkutsk,  which  is  the  capital  of 

Eastern  Siberia. 

Senator  Nelson.  That  is  in  the  eastern  part  of  Siberia,  on  the  west 
side  of  Lake  Baikal  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Irkutsk,  yes.  I  have  also  been  around  the  lake 
once,  and  I  also  went  to  Verkhne  Udinsk. 

Senator  Nelson.  Were  you  at  Kiakhata  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  have  never  been  there. 

Senator  Nelson.  Were  you  down  the  river  at  all  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Although  I  have  been  on  the  river  on  a  boat,  I 
ha\-e  never  been  on  it  to  go  for  any  distance. 

Senator  Nelson.  Were  you  down  as  far  as  the  station  at  the  mouth 
of  the  Usuri  River? 

Mr.  Huntington.  No,  sir. 

Maj.  Humes.  Will  you  state  what  the  conditions  were  as  you  ob- 
served and  found  them  during  your  stay  in  Russia,  and  especially 
outline  and  give  the  committee  any  facts  that  you  have  in  reference 
to  the  actual  application  of  the  Soviet  government  after  the  revolu- 
tion. Outline  the  conditions  just  as  you  found  them  from  time  to 
time  at  the  various  points  you  are  familiar  with. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Before  you  proceed  to  answer  that  question: 
You  say  that  jou  left  Moscow  along  with  members  of  the  Italian 
consulate  and  others? 

Mr.  Huntington.  There  was  a  special  train  made  up  on  that  occa- 
sion, composed  of  the  staff  of  the  American  consulate  general,  of 
American  citizens  who  comprised  chiefly,  but  not  all,  the  employees 
of  the  Y.  M.  C.  A.  and  of  the  employees  of  the  National  City  Bank, 
which  had  a  considerable  staff,  and  a  few  others;  the  Italian  repre- 
sentatives, chiefly  the  Italian  military  mission,  with  their  wives,  and 
the  Belgians.  * 

As  a  matter  of  fact,  only  one  Belgian,  the  consul  general,  came. 
They  had  not  a  very  large  representation  in  the  country  at  that  time. 
They  were  the  three  nationalities  to  go  on  that  train. 

Senator  Wolcott.  You  used  the  expression  that  you  were  permit- 
ted to  leave.  Were  these  various  officials  required  to  leave,  in  any 
wise  ?  Were  they  requested  to  leave,  or  was  the  desire  on  their  part 
to  leave,  and  was  it  that  they  got  the  permission  to  get  this  train 
and  thus  get  out? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes;  the  last  is  the  case.  They  had  arrived  at 
a  sort  of  impasse  where  they  were  no  longer  able  to  perform  their 
functions;  so  they  requested,  through  the  neutral  powers — that  is, 
each  one  of  the  allied  Governments  was  at  that  time  under  the  pro- 
tection of  a  neutral  power,  and  they  requested — permission  to  leave 
the  country.  I  say  "  finally  allowed  to  leave,"  because  there  were 
some  negotiations  on  the  subject,  and  the  leaving  was  made  con- 
tingent upon  certain  counter  concessions  to  the  representatives  of 
the  Bolsheviki  government  in  other  countries.  This  is  a  chapter  of 
the  political  history  which,  unless  you  care  to  have  me,  I  will  not  go 

Senator  King.  The  fact  is  that  they  murdered — the  Bolsheviki 
murdered — the  British  representative,  and  they  made  the  lives  of 
the  representatives  of  the  other  nations,  including  our  own  ambassa- 
dor, so  intolerable,  and  there  was  such  a  constant  menace  over  them, 


that  they  were  compelled  to  leave?  Is  not  that  a  fact,  that  they  mur- 
dered the  British  officer?  I  will  ask  you  that  first.  I  had  several 
questions  in  one. 

Mr.  Htjntington.  Rather  than  to  answer  that  directly,  I  should 
say  that  a  party  of  the  Bolsheviki  Eed  Guard,  under  a  commissar, 
came  to  the  British  Embassy  and  eame  into  the  embassy,  which  of 
course  is  always  recognized  as  the  ground,  in  every  part  of  the  civil- 
ized world,  of  the  power  at  home — that  is,  the  British  Embassy  or 
the  American  Embassy  is  a  piece  of  British  soil  or  of  America,  as 
the  case  may  be,  in  the  foreign  country — they  came  in  with  arms, 
intent  on  making  a  raid  on  the  embassy,  whereupon  the  British  naval 
officer  in  question,  who  was  there,  warned  them  to  leave.  They  came 
on  and  he  opened  fire  on  them,  defending  his  own  embassy. 

Senator  Nelson.  Were  you  there,  and  did  you  see  that? 

Mr.  Huntington.  No,  sir.  At  that  time  I  was  some  miles  from 
Petrograd,  a  very  short  distance  away,  in  a  border  town  at  the  Fin- 
nish border,  the  name  of  which  in  English  is  White  Island.  It  is 
about  a  half  an  hour  distant  from  Petrograd.  The  news  was  brought 
to  us  at  that  point. 

Senator  King.  The  officer  was  killed? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes. 
.    Senator  King.  You  did  not  state  that  fact. 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes;  of  course  he  was  killed. 

Senator  King.  Our  ambassador  is  not  there,  in  Petrograd  or  in 
Moscow  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  At  this  moment? 

Senator  King.  Yes. 

Mr.  Huntington.  Oh,  no  sir. 

Senator  King.  He  and  others  were  driven  out,  or  conditions  were 
so  intolerable  that  they  left,  many,  many  months  ago  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes;  the  conditions  were  made  such  that  they 
could  not  remain. 

Senator  King.  And  one  of  our  representatives  now  is  in  jail,  or 
imprisoned  by  the  Soviet,  or  by  the  Bolsheviki  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  understand  that  the  former  United  States 
consul  in  Petrograd  is  in  prison  in  Turkestan. 

Senator  Nelson.  Did  you  meet  Mr.  Leonard,  of  Minnesota,  who  was 
attached  to  the  service  over  there? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes ;  on  a  number  of  occasions. 

Senator  Steeling.  Is  Ambassador  Francis  in  Russia  still? 

Mr.  Huntington.  No,  sir ;  he  has  been  in  London,  and  was  called, 
so  the  newspapers  stated,  to  Paris  for  a  conference  with  our  repre- 
sentatives there.  Whether  he  has  returned  to  London  I  am  not  cer- 
tain. I  know  no  more  of  his  movements  there  than  what  the  news- 
papers have  told  us. 

Senator  Steeling.  He  remained  there  some  time  after  the  other 
legations  had  left  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  In  Russia  ? 

Senator  Steeling.  In  Russia;  not  at  Petrograd,  but  in  Russia? 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  should  explain  that,  sir,  by  saying  that  the 
allied  ambassadors  and  ministers  in  council  had  agreed  at  one  time 
to  leave  Petrograd,  and  had  about  agreed  to  leave  the  country ;  that 
some  of  them  took  steps  to  do  so;  that  Ambassador  Francis  finally 


decided  not  to  leave  Kussian  soil,  but  transferred  his  embassy  to  a 
town  about  360  or  360  miles  east  of  Petrograd,  called  Vologda. 

Senator  Nelson.  That  is  at  the  railroad  junction  on  the  route  from 
Archangel  to  East  Siberia? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes,  it  is  at  the  junction  between  the  north  and 
south  route  to  Archangel  and  the  east  and  west  route  to  Siberia. 
There  he  was  joined  by  the  other  allied  representatives. 

Senator  Nelson.  How  far  east  of  Petrograd  is  that  point? 

Mr.  Huntington.  My  memory  tells  me  it  is  360  mUes.  I  think 
I  am  nearly  right. 

Senator  Nelson.  Yes;  and  it  is  about  due  south  from  Archangel? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Very  nearly  due  south. 

Senator  Nelson.  What  is  the  distance  from  Archangel  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  It  is  very  nearly  the  same ;  perhaps  a  little  more. 
The  total  distance  to  Archangel  is  760  miles,  so  that  I  should  say  it 
was  about  400  miles  from  Archangel  to  Vologda. 

Senator  Sterling.  Do  you  know  whether  any  of  the  other  repre- 
sentatives were  intercepted  in  their  attempts  to  get  out  of  the  country, 
or  delaj'ed  by  the  Bolsheviki  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  In  February,  do  you  mean,  or  do  you  mean  later 
on  in  the  last  time ;  in  the  last  of  August,  when  I  described  the  de- 
parture of  the  Americans,  Italians,  and  Belgians  ? 

Senator  Steeling.  On  either  occasion  were  they  delayed  or  pre- 

Mr.  Huntington.  About  the  time  in  February  I  can  not  state  in 
detail,  or  from  direct  personal  knowledge,  since  I  left  on  the  train 
which  took  most  of  the  American  representatives  out  east,  and  was 
sent  subsequently  with  that  train  by  the  ambassador  to  Siberia. 

Senator  Overman.  Why  did  the  American  representatives  leave? 

Mr.  Huntington.  At  that  time,  sir? 

Senator  Overman.  Yes ;  at  any  time.     Why  did  they  leave  Kussia  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  There  were  two  situations  existing,  if  I  may  be- 
allowed  to  say,  at  those  times. 

Senator  Overman.  Yes;  that  is  what  I  want  to  know.  Why  did 
they  leave  there  ?     We  were  at  peace  with  them. 

Mr.  Huntington.  So  far  as  February  was  concerned,  the  immedi- 
ate cause  of  leaving  Petrograd  was  the  feared  German  advance  on 
the  town.  The  Germans  were  very  near  by  in  the  Baltic  Provinces,, 
and  the  advices  were  such  as  to  cause  very  great  fear  that  they 
would  come  to  Petrograd.  That  was  shared  more  or  less  by  all,  and 
it  was  the  cause  also  of  the  removal  of  the  Bolshevik  government 
from  Moscow  at  the  same  period. 

Senator  King.  Senator  Overman  wants  to  know  why  our  repre- 
sentatives and  the  representatives  of  other  nations  finally  left  Eussia. 

Mr.  Huntington.  Why  they  left  Petrograd  at  that  time? 

Senator  King.  No ;  why  did  the  representatives  leave  Russia  at  all  ? 
Why  are  not  the  representatives  of  foreign  Governments  there  now  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Simply  because  their  treatment  of  the  foreign 
Governments  is  such  as  to  make  functioning  as  a  Government  repre- 
sentative there  at  this  moment  impossible. 

Senator  Nelson.  Were  they  not  actually  ordered  out  of  the  coun- 
try, finally?  Now,  is  not  this  the  situation,  that  when  they  were 
threatened  with  the  German  advance  to  Petrograd,  the  Bolshevik 


government  and  the  foreign  representatives  all  retired  to  Moscow 
and  remained  there  for  a  while,  and  finally  the  foreign  representatives 
were  compelled  to  leave  Moscow  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Not  quite  so,  Senator.  In  February,  when  the 
German  advance  was  expected,  the  American  Embassy  divided  into 
two  parts,  a  larger  part  and  a  smaller  part,  the  smaller  part  con- 
taining the  ambassador  and  one  or  two  officers  who  stayed  with  him, 
and  the  larger  part,  containing  some  of  the  citizens — the  conditions 
in  Eussia  having  become  very  anarchical  at  that  time,  so  that  it  was 
thought  very  dangerous  for  the  average  person  who  had  not  official 
business  there  to  remain — we  sent  east  in  trains  thatv  passed  out  finally 
through  Siberia.  The  remaining,  smaller  section  of  the  embassy 
staff,  composed  of  the  ambassador  and  two  or  three  of  his  secretaries, 
proceeded  after  a  day  or  two — those  dates  could  be  supplied — to  the 
town  of  "Vologda  and  remained  there  until,  I  should  say — I  should 
wish  to  check  this  date  absolutely ;  it  will  be  on  file  here  in  the  appro- 
priate department — I  think  until  July,  when  the  ambassador  and  the 
allied  embassies  and  legations  left  Vologda  for  Archangel. 

Senator  Nelson.  Vologda  is  northeast  of  Moscow,  is  it  not? 

Mr.  HtTNTiNGTON.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Nelson.  About  how  far? 

Mr.  Huntington.  About  250  miles. 

Senator  Nelson.  So  that  our  people  retired  from  Moscow  up  to 
that  railroad  junction? 

Mr.  Huntington.  No,  sir;  our  embassy  at  that  time  did  not  go  to 
Moscow.  Our  embassy,  what  was  left  of  it,-  was  directed  to  Vologda. 
The  representatives  that  we  had  in  Moscow  were  those  of  the  Ameri- 
can consulate  general  always  stationed  at  that  place  and  who  did  not 
change  their  station. 

Senator  Nelson.  Among  them  was  Mr.  Leonard? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Mr.  Leonard  was  a  vice  consul  on  the  staff  of 
the  American  consul  general. 

Senator  Overman.  Were  you  there  when  Mr.  Summers  died? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Mr.  Summers  died  while  I  was  en  route  to  join 
him.  I  learned  of  his  death  while  passing  through  Vologda,  on  the 
way  to  Moscow. 

Senator  King.  Would  you  prefer,  Doctor,  to  proceed  in  your  own 
way,  giving  a  narrative  and  your  testimony  chronologically,  or  to 
submit  to  these  rather  irregular  interruptions,  which  must  disturb 
the  chronological  sequence  of  it? 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  had  thought,  if  it  was  agreeable  to  you,  to 
make  a  brief  chronological  record  and  then  submit  to  any  cross- 

Senator  King.  I  suggest,  Mr.  Chairman,  that  he  go  on  in  that  way. 

Senator  Overman.  Proceed  in  that  way,  Mr.  Huntington. 

Mr.  Huntington.  As  I  understand  it,  what  I  am  asked  to  appear 
here  and  do  is  to  tell  as  honestly  and  truthfully  as  I  may  what  I  know 
of  the  theory  aiid  practice  of  the  so-called  Bolsheviki  government  in 

I  was  sent  to  Eussia  in  1916  as  a  commercial  attache  of  the  Depart- 
ment of  Commerce,  accredited  to  the  American  Embassy.  That 
means  that  I  was  sent  there  as  a  Government  employee.  I  had  been 
previously  for  two  years  in  the  Government  employ  in  similar  work. 


I  was  sent  to  Russia  to  do  my  part  in  developing  Russian- American 
trade  relations. 

I  took,  up  my  quarters  in  the  American  Embassy,  where  my  office 
was  situated,  and  was  in  constant  touch  with  the  ambassador  and  the 
embassy's  staff,  so  that  I  had  rather  unusual  opportunities  to  observe 
and  study. 

I  spent  eight  months  under  the  so-called  regime — that  is,  under 
the  regime  of  the  Czar  Nicolas,  from  June,  1916,  to  March,  1917.  On 
the  Russian  New  Year's  Day,  1917,  I  was  presented,  with  the  other 
members  of  the  staff,  to  the  Emperor. 

In  March  the  same  Emperor  had  abdicated,  and  a  very  nearly 
bloodless  revolution  took  place,  after  which,  first,  the  provisional  gov- 
ernment of  Russia  was  formed.  I  then  lived  under  this  government 
and  its  successors  from  March  until  November  of  1917. 

In  November  of  1917  came,  after  long  preparation,  the  coup  d'etat 
of  the  so-called  Bolshevik  party,  and  this  coup  d'etat  was  successful ; 
and  I  then  lived  under  the  Bolshevik  regime  from  November  of  1917 
until  September  1,  to  be  accurate,  of  1918. 

Senator  Nelson.  Was  it  not  the  Kerensky  government  that  suc- 
ceeded the  Czar's  government  in  March,  until  November  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  It  is  most  often  called  the  Kerensky  government 
because  of  the  fact  that  Kerensky's  name  was  the  outstanding  name. 
Kerensky  was  npt  the  premier  of  the  first  provisional  government, 
but  sat  in  it  as  the  minister  of  justice,  and  his  star  was  a  rising  one. 
His  influence  grew,  or  the  influence  which  was  attributed  to  him,  so 
that  in  the  succeeding  combinations 

Senator  Nelson.  I  do  not  want  to  interrupt  you,  only  my  under- 
standing is,  and  I  want  to  bring  that  before  you,  that  the  real 
Bolshevik  government  did  not  succeed  until  in  the  fall  of  1917. 

Mr.  Huntington.  That  is  very  clear,  sir.  They  did  not  come  in — 
were  not  able  to  gain  the  power — until  eight  months  after  the  Rus- 
sian revolution  in  March,  1917. 

Beginning  with  June  of  1916,  and  from  that  time  onward,  I  had, 
first,  upwards  of  two  months  in  Petrograd,  and  then  over  two  months 
traveling.  The  country  was  at  war.  At  that  period  we  were  not,  so 
that  the  contrast  was  especially  sharp  to  me  who  had  come  from  a 
peace  country. 

The  transportation  system  was  hopelessly  overloaded.  Russia  is 
weakly  economically  developed  for  her  size,  anyhow,  being  chiefly  a 
peasant  country,  a  farming  country,  although  some  phases  of  indus- 
try are  strongly  developed.  But  in  general  the  economic  and  busi- 
ness apparatus  is  a  weak  one. 

The  transportation  was  overloaded,  which  caused  food  difficulty. 

In  manufacturing,  munition  manufacturing  was  going  on  as  best 
they  could,  but  still  not  enough.  There  was  profiteering ;  there  was 
corruption ;  there  were  reports  widely  circulated  of  German  intrigue 
in  high  circles.  The  country  at  large  was  hard  at  work  at  war.  Or- 
dinary society  as  we  know  it  was  very  much  disturbed,  mothers  and 
daughters  of  families  being  in  the  hospitals,  and  the  fathers  and 
sons  being  at  the  front. 

The  losses  were  very  great,  and  there  were  all  the  attendant  conse- 
quences of  war. 


Senator  Wolcott.  May  I  interject  a  question  here?  From  your 
observation  do  you  think  you  are  prepared  to  express  an  opinion  as 
to  the  wholeheartedness  oi  the  Russian  people  who  came  under  your 
observation,  in  support  of  the  war  at  that  time  ? 
.  Mr.  Huntington.  Those  with  whom  I  came  in  contact  in  the 
towns,  yes.  The  Russian  peasant  with  whom  I  had  contact  as  time 
went  on  was,  as  the  Russian  peasant  is,  as  a  man,  a  local  man,  a  man 
with  a  very  narrow  vision,  a  man  who  has  never  had  any  oppor- 
tunity, and  as  far  as  that  permitted  he  was  interested  in  the  war.  It 
was  always  pointed  out,  universally,  that  the  war  as  compared  to 
the  very  disastrous  Japanese  war,  was  a  popular  war,  a  people's  war. 

Senator  Wolcott.  So  that  you  think  the  statement  that  before  the 
Czar  abdicated  the  Russian  people  were  as  enthusiastic  in  favor  of 
the  war  as  could  be,  to  be  a  just  statement,  do  you  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes. 

Senator  Overman.  Proceed  with  your  story. 

Mr.  Huntington.  At  that  time  I  traveled  throughout  Russia,  and 
in  going  through  the  provincial  towns  was  able  to  go  into  many  shops 
and  stores  as  a  commercial  traveler,  so  to  speak,  and  to  see  the  absence 
of  goods;  was  able  to  see  the  building  operations  held  up,  large 
buildings  in  various  parts  of  Russia,  in  the  large  towns,  with  scaffold- 
ing about  them,  that  could  not  go  on  for  lack  of  material  and  labor; 
was  able  to  see  how  overloaded  the  railroads  were ;  was  able  to  see  the 
graft  which  was  used  to  get  shipments  made ;  was  able  to  see  the  work 
which  the  Zemstvo  organizations  were  doing,  and  without  which  the 
war  would  not  have  gone  on — they  and  the  war  industry  committees 
were  in  helping  the  Government ;  was  able  to  see  how  hard  hit,  under 
the  surface,  Russia  was,  as  a  weakly  organized  economic  and  manu- 
facturing country,  having  to  put  into  the  field  the  millions  of  soldiers 
which  she  did. 

Senator  Nelson.  You  speak  and  understand  the  Russian  language? 

Mr.  Huntington.  For  ordinary  conversational  purposes,  and  for 
reading  the  newspapers,  yes.  For  reading  economic  books,  yes.  To 
gain  a  perfect  knowledge  of  the  language  several  years  would  be 
required,  and  I  do  not  claim  to  have  a  perfect  knowledge  of  the  lan- 

Senator  Steeling.  I  would  like  to  have  you  at  some  time — you  may 
have  it  in  mind  to  do  so  later — describe  the  Zemstvo  and  the  authority 
of  the  Zemstvo,  and  how  it  is  constituted. 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  think  that  could  be  brought  out  later.  I 
should  prefer,  myself,  to  have  documents  to  explain  that. 

Senator  Steeling.  Very  well. 

Senator  Oveeman.  Go  on  with  your  story. 

Mr-  Huntington.  This  situation  which  I  have  described,  the  bad 
transportation,  and  the  heavy  load  of  the  war,  failure  on  the  front 
due  to  the  lack  of  materiel,  the  soldiers  not  being  provided  with  arms 
and  elementary  things  which  they  needed,  went  on.  As  the  winter 
drew  on,  the  effect  of  this  grew  every  day.  I  lived  in  an  apartment, 
and  was  able,  through  my  servants,  who  taught  me  my  first  Russian, 
to  find  out  what  difficulties  they  had  in  getting  food  in  the  shops. 

Finally,  in  February  and  March  the  situation  got  to  a  head.  A 
general  strike  broke  out  of  the  workmen. 

Senator  Wolcott.  This  was  in  1917? 


Mr.  HiTNTiNGTON.  1917.  They  could  not  quell  it.  The  food  ques- 
tion was  too  acute.  There  was  a  universal  feeling  amongst  the  masses 
that  there  was  corruption;  that  nothing  was  being  done.  I  had  that 
at  that  time  from  the  servants,  from  the  common  people  of  the  em- 
bassy and  my  house,  with  whom  I  had  come  in  contact.  It  was 
talked  about  in  stores  and  shops,  and  on  the  streets,  that  there  was 
corruption,  and  that  the  Germans  were  keeping  food  from  the 
people,  and  that  sort  of  thing.  There  were  parades  in  these  strikes, 
and  Cossack  soldiers  were  ordered  out  to  stop  those  parades.  For- 
merly, in  years  gone  by,  they  would  have  drawn  their  weapons  and 
would  have  fired,  if  necessary.  At  this  time  they  did  neither.  They 
rode  up  onto  the  sidewalks  very  gently  and  pushed  people  off  without 
hurting  anybody.  If  they  gathered  too  much  they  grinned.  They 
did  not  hurt  anyone.  It  was  freely  stated  to  me  by  the  people,  by  my 
servants,  that  they  would  not  fire,  and  it  was  known  that  they  would 
not  fire;  and  before  any  of  us  who  had  not  been  through  similar 
things  before,  knew  it,  there  was  mutiny  in  the  regiments  at  Petro- 
grad  followed  by  some  street  fighting.  Then  came  the  fighting  with 
the  police,  the  old  police,  which  was  the  hardest  fighting  of  all,  with 
machine  guns.    They  fought  from  the  housetops. 

In  a  few  days  it  was  all  over,  and  ,the  first  provisional  government 
was  formed  from  a  committee  of  the  Duma,  which  was  the  only  i-ep- 
resentative  organization  that  they  had. 

Alongside  of  this  provisional  government  there  was  immediately 
formed  the  organization  of  the  Soviets,  so-called — "  soviet "  being  the 
Russian  word  for  "  council " — of  workmen  and  soldiers,  on  the  model 
and  pattern  of  the  Soviets  of  1905.  These  were  primarily  a  move- 
ment of  the  so-called  social  democrats,  primarily  socialistic  and  not 
Bolshevistic,  at  that  time.  They  aspirecl  to  put  through  policies  and 
exercise  an  influence  on  the  government.  They  did  not  aspire,  at  that 
period,  to  have  members  in  the  government,  so  far  as  I  know,  except- 
ing their  member,  Kerensky,  who  served  as  a  link  between  them  and 
the  provisional  government,  sitting  in  both  organizations. 

Senator  Nelson.  Tell  us  what  the  Soviets  were.  You  have  not 
done  that  yet. 

Mr.  Huntington.  The  word  soviet  is  merely  the  Eussian  word  for 
council.  The  Soviets  were  a  form  of  group  organizations  which  came 
about  first  in  the  revolution  of  1905,  at  the  time  of  the  Russo-Japa- 
nese War,  and  which  was  not  successful. 

In  the  revolution  of  1917  the  Soviets  were  by  men  who  were  inter- 
ested in  this  movement,  formed,  and  immediately  put  one  of  their 
number,  Kerensky,  into  the  provisional  government  which  was 
formed  at  the  same  time.  They  were  not  themselves  the  govern- 
ment, nor  did  they  at  that  time  aspire  to  be,  but  they  aspired,  as  a 
political  outer  organization,  to  influence  the  government. 

Senator  Nelson.  It  seems  to  me  that  your  description,  right  here, 
is  a  little  wrong.  The  situation  is  this,  that  the  Russian  peasants 
settled  in  villages  and  communities,  called  mirs,  and  those  Soviets  are 
organizations  of  those  local  communities.  They  constitute  the  Soviets. 
Those  organizations  of  these  local  communities  constitute  the  soviet, 
and  these  local  communities  send  the  representatives  to  the  general 
soviet  at  the  headquarters.    Now,  is  not  that  the  case  ? 


Mr.  Huntington.  Yes;  that  grew  to  be  somewhat  the  case  except 
that,  if  only  because  of  the  very  hugeness  of  the  country  and  the 
ignorance  of  the  peasants,  it  was  never  possible  to  organize  them 
well,  in  fact. 

Senator  Nelson.  But  your  explanation  did  not  cover  that. 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  did  not  intend,  primarily,  Senator,  to  go  into 
this,  because  I  did  not  care  to  specialize  on  this  point,  because  I 
wanted  to  speak  more  on  the  economic  side. 

Senator  Nelson.  Well 

Mr.  Huntington.  The  soviet  organizations  began  in  the  great 
cities ;  began  chiefly  in  Petrograd,  which  is  the  political  center.  They 
subsequently  extended  throughout  the  country.  The  trained  leaders 
of  the  movement  were  in  the  towns,  not  in  the  country. 

The  movement  at  first  did  not  even  include  the  peasants ;  not  even 
in  its  title.  It  was  called  "  The  Soviet  of  the  Workmen  and  Soldiers.'' 
Of  course,  very  many  soldiers  were  peasants.  Subsequently  the  titles 
of  many  local  Soviets  were  changed  to  include  the  word  "  peasants." 

Presently  the  word  "  Cossack  "  was  also  used,  but  at  that  time  in 
Petrograd  the  organization  was  not  as  developed  as  it  subsequently 
became.    There  had  not  been  time  to  extend  it. 

Now,  the  new  provisional  government  which  came  into  power  at 
that  time  found  itself  faced  by  the  conditions  which  I  have  recited 
to  you  as  having  been  seen  by  me  from  the  time  of  my  arrival  in  1916, 
conditions  of  economic  breakdown,  breakdown  of  transportation  and 
business  and  manufacturing,  in  a  country  weakly  economically  devel- 
oped, and  at  that  time  carrying  on  the  greatest  war  in  its  history, 
with  millions  of  men  in  the  field,  and  unable  to  back  those  men  up 
with  arms,  railway  cars,  and  equipment.  There  was  also  the  further 
difficulty  of  the  so-called  dual  authority,  that  is  of  a  government,  but 
at  the  same  time,  along  beside  that  government,  the  organization  of 
the  Soviets  which  aspired  to  control  it  and  had  their  central  executive 
committee  in  Petrograd,  their  local  Soviets,  as  you  say,  in  the  prov- 
inces ;  that  was  a  political  conflict  which  went  on  and  which  resulted 
in  the  changes  from  one  government  to  the  next  which  I  would  pre- 
fer not  to  discuss,  since  there  are  political  students  who  can  do  that 
better  than  I,  and  resulted  in  the  changing  of  the  composition  of  the 
first  government,  resulted  in  their  resignation  and  their  replacement 
by  other  men.  and  resulted  in  the  prominence,  for  a  time,  of  Keren- 
sky,  and  finally  resulted  in  the  Bolshevik  coup  d'etat  of  November. 

in  July  of  1917  the  situation  had  already,  with  the  economic  con- 
ditions growing  constantly  worse,  become  so  tense  that  the  Bolshe- 
viks, as  the  slang  phras'e  goes,  tried  their  movement  on,  and  there 
was  for  several  days,  in  Petrograd,  anarchy.  That  is,  the  government 
went  into  hiding,  could  not  be  found  during  that  period,  and  troops, 
the  local  garrison,  marched  in  the  streets,  groups  of  irresponsible 
men  went  around  in  motor  trucks  with  machine  guns,  men  were 
up  in  the  top  floors  of  houses,  shooting  out  of  the  windows,  etc. 

The  only  result  of  that  was  16  dead  horses,  which  I  counted  in  the 
so-called  Liteiny  Prospect,  one  of  the  principal  streets,  and  a  Cos- 
sack funeral,  the  Cossacks  having  been  sent  out  to  bring  kbout  order. 

The  Bolshevik  group  was  active  always  in  the  soviet  organization. 
The  soviet,  as  I  explained  to  you,  was  a  movement  primarily  of 
workmen  of  the  cities,  later  expanded  to  the  peasants,  and  it  was 


predominantly  Menshevik — that  is,  the  opposite  of  Bolshevik.  The 
Bolsheviki  were  represented  in' the  soviet,  took  part  in  the  debates, 
stood  for  certain  principles,  were  outvoted  and  were  a  minority  party 
in  the  soviet. 

Senator  King.  There  were  some  bourgeois  in  the  original  soviet? 

Mr.  Huntington.  In  the  original  Soviets  there  were  verj'  few.  I 
do  not  know  of  any  so-called  bourgeois  except  for  some  intellectuals 
like  Kerensky,  if  you  like,  and  men  of  that  type. 

I  should  qualify  that,  and  say  if  you  mean  by  bourgeois,  the  edu- 
cated men  who  have  had  greater  opportunities  in  life,  yes;  there 
were  several  of  those. 

Senator  Nelson.  Can  you  tell  us  how  the  Bolshevik  revolution 
broke  out  in  November,  1917?     Can  you  tell  us  anything  about  that? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes,  sir;  I  think  so.  I  was  present  the  entire 

After  the  "  try-on  "  in  July,  which  failed  because  the  spirit  was  not 
worked  up  sufficienth',  yet,  to  make  it  win,  thej'  were  quiet  for  a 
time,  and  we  went  through  further  changes  in  the  structure  of  the 
nominal  government. 

Senator  Nelson.  By  that,  you  mean  the  provisional  government? 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  mean  the  provisional  government  headed  by 

Senator  Nelson.  Now,  you  have  skipped  an  interregnum  there, 
my  friend.  Under  the  Kerensky  government  they  continued  to  make 
further  war  on  German}'  and  to  keep  on,  until  finally  the  army  of 
soldiers  refused  to  fight  and  became  demoralized.  That  was  before 
the  revolution  of  November,  1917.     Now,  is  not  that  a  fact? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes,  sir;  that  is  a  fact.  The  changes  in  Petro- 
grad,  the  changes  in  the  central  government,  had  not  been  without 
influence  on  the  army,  very  naturally,  since  war  was  the  chief  prob- 
lem before  the  government  at  that  time,  aside  from  being  fed,  and 
the  change  from  the  old  regime,  the  change  of  discipline,  the  taking 
away  of  the  former  command,  and  the  introduction  into  the  army,  by 
idealists  like  Kerensky,  of  untried  principles  of  discipline,  all  con- 
spired to  bring  about  disintegration  and  lack  of  interest.  That  was 
backed  up  constantly  by  the  Bolshevik  propaganda.  The  Bolshe- 
viki were  working  in  the  city  of  Petrograd  principally,  which  was, 
of  course,  also  the  political  head  of  Russia,  and  at  the  front,  to 
break  down  the  spirit  of  war,  the  spirit  of  carrying  on  the  war,  with 

Senator  King.  Pardon  me,  right  there.  Kerensky,  Rodzianko, 
and  Prince  Lvoff,  those  who  were  controlling  the  provisional  gov- 
ernment, were  strong  allies  of  France  and  England,  and  the  op- 
ponents of  the  central  powers,  and  anxious  for  Russia  to  do  her  part 
in  the  great  struggle  for  the  defeat  of  the  central  powers  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  There  is  no  question  about  that. 

Senator  King.  And  Germany  had  spies  and  agents  in  Russia,  and 
they  conspired  with  traitors  in  Russia  for  the  purpose  of  disorganiz- 
ing the  army,  undermining  the  morale  of  the  Russian  people  and 
finally  compelling  the  withdrawal  of  Russia  from  participation  in 
the  war  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  That  is  correct,  sir. 


Senator  King.  And  the  Bolsheviks  were  there  leading  the  treason 
against  their  own  government  and  against  the  allies  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  The  Bolsheviks  are  internationalists,  and  they 
were  not  interested  in  the  particular  national  ideals  of  Russia. 

Senator  Overman.  What  was  the  nature  of  the  propaganda? 
Can  you  tell  us  what  that  was? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Sending  agitators,  so  called,  and  pamphlets, 
to  the  troops  in  the  army  throughout  the  campaign,  telling  them  if 
they  were  to  keep  on  fighting,  they  were  fighting  for  imperialistic 
and  selfish  aims  of  world  power  by  the  allies,  who  were  practically 
just  as  selfish  in  their  aims  as  Germany  was  in  hers.  Also  advising 
peasant  soldiers  to  go  home  so  as  not  to  lose  their  share  of  the  land 
which,  they  said,  was  being  divided  up. 

Senator  King.  Including  the  United  States? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Including  the  United  States. 

Senator  King.  They  made  as  bitter  an  attack  upon  our  Government 
as  they  did  upon  England  and  France  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes. 

Senator  King.  And  their  object  was  to  destroy  us  as  it  was  to  de- 
stroy the  other  allied  Governments? 

Mr.  HuNTiNGTON;  Yes. 

Senator  Oveeman.  Can  you  tell  us  anything  about  their  pamphlets 
and  speeches? 

Senator  King.  Just  one  question. 

Senator  Overman.  Ygs. 

Senator  Nelson.  Their  aim  was  to  commit  treason  against  the 
cause  of  the  allied  Governments,  and  in  favor  of  Germany  and 
Austria ;  that  is,  to  help  Germany  and  Austria  win  the  fight. 

Mr.  Huntington.  That  would  have  to  be  stated  differently,  Sena- 
tor. Their  aim  was  an  aim  of  a  group  of  fanatics  who  have  their 
own  game  to  play.  They  are  perfectly  willing  to  accept  aid  from 
Germany  in  playing  that  game.  Germany  had  at  all  times  had  Russia 
honeycornbed  with  spies.  Germany  knew  Russia  better  than  any 
otlier  country.  Germany  had  more  people  within  her  borders  and 
out  who  spoke  Russian,  and  had  studied  Russia  and  had  been  in 
business  in  Russia,  than  any  other  country. 

The  Bolsheviks  were  a  party  who  believed  in  so-called  interna- 
tionalism, who  believed  in  the  abolishment  of  war,  who  believed  in 
the  immediate  establishment,  in  the  bringing  about,  of  the  socialistic 
state,  and  were  against  this  war  because,  as  they  say,  they  believed  it 
to  be  a  war  of  capitalists.  They  expected  German  money  to  win 
their  cause,  which  was  to  stop  the  war.  Germany  used  them  as  a 
military  instrument  to  break  down  the  military  power  in  the  east, 
and  when  she  had  broken  it  down,  promptly  threw  her  soldiers  over 
to  the  west  against  us. 

Senator  King.  The  Bolsheviks,  then,  were  really  allies  of  Germany 
and  Austria? 

Mr.  Huntington.  They  were,  for  practical  purposes;  from  a 
military  point  of  view,  practically  our  point  of  view. 

Senator  King.  The  Bolsheviks  got  the  Russians  to  commit  treason 
against  their  own  Government  and  against  the  cause  of  the  allies? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes;  because  they  did  not  believe  in  the  cause. 

Senator  King.  Yes. 


Mr.  Huntington.  Xeither  did  tlu'y  wish  the  German  cause  to  win, 
as  such,  because  Germany  to  tliem  is  an  imperialistic  government,  or 
was,  and  they  were  quite  as  anxious  to  destroy  that  government  as  to 
destroy'  ours.  They  are  a  third  party  in  the  triangle  of  opinion,  if 
you  like,  but  as  they  themselves  admit,  they  are  quite  unscrupulous 
in  the  means  they  take  to  gain  their  end ;  so  they  were  willing  to  take 
the  German  money  and  to  use  it  for  their  own  principles. 

Germany  is  a  crook,  who,  as  we  have  proven,  is  perfectly  unscrupu- 
lous in  the  use  of  any  means  that  offer,  to  gain  her  end ;  and  they,  as 
equally  good  croolcs,  or  I  think  a  little  bit  better,  were  using  Ger- 
many to  gain  their  end;  so  that  we  have  the  spectacle  of  these  two 
using  each  other  to  gain  their  ends. 

Senator  Overman.  What  was  their  statement  about  our  country? 
What  is  their  objection  to  our  Government? 

Mr.  Huntington.  What  is  their  objection  to  the  Government? 

Senator  Overman.  Yes;  to  our  Government. 

Mr.  Huntington.  Their  objection  is  twofold.  In  the  first  place, 
we  had  joined  in  the  war,  and  they  were  against  the  war. 

In  the  second  place,  we  are  not  a  socialistic  Government,  and  they 
do  not  approve  of  us  for  that  reason. 

Senator  King.  Is  it  not  a  fact  that  Trotsky  and  a  number  of  other 
men  who  were  in  this  country,  undesirables,  bad  in  every  way,  went 
back  to  Russia  and  did  all  they  could  to  prejudice  the  Russian  people 
against  our  country;  that  they  denounced  our  country — Trotsky 
and  others — as  an  imperialistic  Government? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes;  they  did. 

Senator  King.  And  they  are  just  as  bitterly  opposed  to  the  United 
States,  to  our  representative  form  of  government,  and  would  destroy 
it  just  as  quickly  as  tliej'  would  destroy  that  of  any  other  country 
in  the  world? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Exactly. 

Senator  King.  And  their  purpose  now  is  our  destruction,  as  it  is 
the  destruction  of  all  orderly  governments  through  the  world? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  Is  not  this  a  fact — I  want  to  bring  it  to  your 
attention — that  after  the  Kerensky  government — I  call  it  that  for 
short — came  into  power  temporarily  they  issued  a  general  pardon  for 
all  offenders,  especially  those  that  had  been  sent  to  Siberia,  and  that 
Lenine  was  one  of  the  men  that  was  pardoned,  and  that  he  came 
back  by  way  of  Switzerland  and  was  given  a  passport  by  the  German 
authorities  to  come  back  to  Russia?  Do  you  know  anything  about 
that,  or  have  you  heard  anything  about  it  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes,  sir;  I  have  heard,  and  I  remember  per- 
fectly well  when  Mr.  Lenine  first  began  to  come  into  Petrograd 
and  speak  on  the  streets. 

Senator  Nelson.  Did  you  not  know  that  he  was  one  of  the  men 
pardoned  who  Avns  in  Siberia,  and  that  he  came  back  by  way  of 
Switzerland  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  do  not  believe  Lenine  was  at  this  period  in 
Siberia.    He  returned  to  Russia  from  Switzerland. 

Senator  Nelson.  And  got  a  passport  from  the  German  authorities? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes ;  he  came  into  Petrograd.    I  can  not  remem 
ber  the  time  when  he  began  to  come.     He  met,  of  course,  at  that  time 
with  gi-eat  resistance. 


Senator  Nelson.  Did  you  ever  see  him? 

Mr.   HrrNTiNGTON.  Yes;   for  once,  in    the    constituent    assembly 
-which  tried  to  meet  and  was  dismissed. 
Senator  Nelson.  By  him  and  Trotsky  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes ;  by  Lenine  and  Trotsky.  I  sat  at  that  time 
in  the  press  gallery  and  looked  down  on  him,  not  farther  from  him 
than  you  are  this  moment  from  me. 

Senator  Nelson.  Those  two  are  the  ringleaders  of  the  Bolshevik 
movement,  are  they  not? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes,  they  are  the  brains  of  the  movement. 
Maj.  Humes.  Is  it  not  a  fact  that  Lenine  in  going  from  Switzer- 
land to  Russia  went  through  Germany? 
Mr.  Huntington.  Yes.  , 

Maj.  Humes.  He  was  permitted  td  tf aver  through  Germany  for 
the  purpose  of  reaching  Russia  ? 
Mr.  Huntington.  Yes. 

Senator  Overman.  Did  you  hear  him  speak  on  the  street? 
Ml-.  Huntington.  No  ;  t  have  never  heard  Lenine  speak.    I  have 
heard  Trotsky  speak,  on  the  street  and  in  meetings  of  th6  Soviet. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Doctor,  would  this  be  a  correct  statement  or 
way  of  summing  up  the  purposes  of  this  Bolshevik  group  as  they 
existed  at  the  time  you  have  just  been  speaking  of,  namely,'that  they 
were  the  enemies  of  all  governments  organized  along  lines  other  than 
those  that  met  with  their  own  fantastic  notions ;  and  therefore  they 
were  the  enemies  of  the  United  States  or  of  the  allied  Govern- 
ments, and  of  Germany — enemies,  I  mean,  to  those  forms  of  govern- 
ment ;  that  they  found  in  their  own  country  a  people  who  were  sym- 
pathetic with  the  allies,  and  in  order  to  break  that  sympathy  they 
accepted  money  from  Germany,  whose  form  of  government  they 
did  not  like,  for  the  purpose  of  getting  the  Russian  people  in  line 
with  their  socialistic  notions;  that  they  hoped  to  break  down  the 
allied  sympathies  in  Russia,  and  then  weld  the  Russians  together  into 
a  Bolshevik  government,  expressing'  the  Bolshevik  idea,  in  the  hope 
that  then  they  would  have  such  strength  as  to  carry  their  principles 
throughout  the  world  and  overthrow  all  established  governments? 
Mr.  Huntington.  Yes ;  that  is  true.  I  would  like,  if  I  could  here, 
to  read  some  statements  of  the  Bolshevik  government  from  this  [in- 
dicating paper]. 

Senator  Nelson.  No,  but,  Mr.  Chairman,  if  you  will  allow  me; 
instead  of  getting  this  by  piecemeal,  if  you  can  tell  us — we  can  not 
stay  here  always — what  the  doctrines,  and  creed,  and  principles  of 
government  of  the  Bolshevik  government  are,  that  is  what  we  would 
like  to  know,  not  these  mere  scattering  quotations. 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  can  do  that,  sir.  I  would  like,  however,  to 
read  to  you  exactly  what  they  say  their  own  doctrines  are. 

Senator  Wolcott.  It  seems  to  me  that  is  better  than  the  doctor's 
interpretation  of  them. 

Mr.  Huntington.  In  the  first  place,  I  have  a  circular  here  which 
I  read  at  the  time  it  came,  which  is  an  open  circular.    There  is  noth- 
ing secret  about  it.     It  is  not  diplomatic  correspondence.     It  was 
sent  to  every  embassy  and  legation  in  Petrograd. 
Senator  Wolcott.  Sent  by  whom? 

85723—19 i 


Mr.  Huntington.  The  Bolshevik  government  then  located  in 
Petrograd.  The  matter  at  issue  was  the  matter  of  diplomatic 

Senator  Wolcott.  What  is  the  date  of  that  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  December  15, 1917.     [Eeading:] 

From  the  people's  commissariat  of  foreign  afCairs.  For  the  information  of 
the  allied  and  neutral  embassies  and  legations.  *  *  *  The  fact  that  the 
Soviet  Government  considers  necessary  diplomatic  relations  not  only  with  the 
governments  hut  also  with  the  revolutionary  Socialist  parties,  which  are  stiiv- 
ing  -for  the  overthrow  of  the  existing  governments,  is  not  suflBcient  ground  for 
statements  to  the  effect  that  "  an  unrecognized  government "  can  not  have 
diplomatic  couriers.     *     *     * 

This  is  their  own  statement  in  a  circular  letter. 

Senator  Sterling.  Who  issued  that  letter? 

Mr.  Huntington.  The  commissar  for  foreign  affaits. 

Senator  Steeling.  Lenine  and  Trotsky  were  then  at  the  head  of 
the  Bolshevik  rule  or  government? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes. 

Senator  Steeling.  That  was  during  their  regime? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Oh,  yes ;  that  was  within  a  month  of  their  com- 
ing into  power. 

Senator  Steeling.  At  that  time  Trotsky  was  the  commissar  for 
foreign  affairs? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  The  meat  of  that  circular  is  simply  this,  that  even 
if  they  had  not  been  technically  recognized  as  a  de  jure  government,, 
they  were  in  fact  the  government,  and  as  such  their  couriers  ought 
to  have  recognition.    Is  not  that  the  substance  of  it  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  No,  sir ;  I  beg  your  pardon.  I  think  the  meat 
of  it  is  that  they  considered  it  necessary  to  have  relations.,  and  claimed 
the  right  to  have  relations,  not  only  with  established  governments  in 
our  country  and  in  other  countries,  but  with  the  revolutionary  so- 
cialist parties  seeking  to  overthrow  these  governments. 

Senator  Nelson.  And  did  they  not  put  it  on  the  ground  that  they 
are  a  de  facto  government  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  do  not  understand  you,  sir. 

Senator  Nelson.  Do  you  not  understand  a  little  law  Latin  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  have  forgotten,  mostly,  what  I  knew. 

Senator  Nelson.  Do  you  know  the  difference  between  a  de  facto 
government  and  a  de  jure  government? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes,  sir;  but  the  important  thing  for  us  is,  in 
that  statement,  sir 

Senator  Nelson.  Go  ahead ;  go  ahead. 

Senator  Oveeman.  Their  purpose,  then,  was  to  overthrow  all  gov- 

Mr.  Huntington.  They  say  so. 

Senator  Wolcott.  That  circular  shows  plainly  their  intention  to 
overthrow  all  governments,  and  they  wanted  to  establish  relations  with 
all  revolutionary^  parties  under  these  governments  from  which  they 
were  seeking  vises  for  their  couriers.  That  is  the  purpose  of  that, 
very  clearly,  to  my  mind.  They  did  not  pay  any  attention  to  the 
established  governments. 

Mr.  HuifTiNGTON.  Again,  from  a  statement  from  "their  own  lips: 
Sometime  ago  there  was  published  in  a  paper  called  One  Year  of  the 


Eevolutlon,  published  in  this  country,  some  diplomatic  correspond- 
ence. I  have  tested  this  diplomatic  correspondence  to  see  whether 
it  took  place,  and  it  did,  and  it  is  correctly  given  here.  In  the  course 
of  the  reply  of  Mr.  Tchitcherin,  of  which  I  have  the  date  here  in 
my  notes,  he  said  this  [reading]  : 

To  the  neutral  legations  who  protested  against  the  cruelties  of  the  Bolshevik 
regime  Mr.  Tchitcherin,  the  commissar  for  foreign  affairs,  says : 

"  We  are  convinced  that  the  masses  in  all  countries  who  are  writhing  under 
the  oppression  of  a  small  group  of  exploiters  will  understand  that  in  Russia, 
force  is  being  used  only  in  the  holy  cause  of  the  liberation  of  the  people,  that 
they  will  not  only  understand  us,  but  will  follow  our  example." 

Senator  Overman.  What  is  that  document  you  read  from? 

Mr.  Huntington.  That  is  a  letter  written  by  Mr.  George  Tchit- 
cherin, commissar-  of  foreign  affairs  of  the  Bolshevik  govermnent, 
to  the  neutral  legations  in  Russia  who  protested  against  the  cruel- 
ties of  the  Bolshevik  regime.  It  is  addressed  in  care  of  the  Swiss 
minister,  dated  September  5.    That  is  only  one  sentence  in  it. 

Senator  Overman.  But  the  document  itself,  was  that  printed  in 
this  country? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes ;  it  has  been  printed  in  this  country.  How 
it  got  through  here  I  do  not  know,  but  it  has  escaped  the  censor- 
ship and  been  printed  in  this  country,  although  a  diplomatic  docu- 

Senator  Overman.  What  is  the  red  flag  on  the  back  of  that 

Mr.  Huntington.  That  is  the  illustration  on  the  cover. 

Senator  Sterling.  Have  you  that  passage  marked  there,  which  you 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes,  sir. 

Maj.  Humes.  It  was  just  after  or  about  the  time  of  the  writing 
of  that  letter  that  all  the  representatives  of  the  neutral  Governments 
were  compelled  to  leave  Russia, 

Mr.  Huntington.  That  was  September  5  when  that  letter  was 
written.  We  had  just  gone.  The  others  followed  us  within  a  short 

Senator  Overman.  Were  you  compelled  to  leave,  or  did  you  leave 
from  fear,  or  were  you  ordered  to  leave? 

Mr.  Huntington.  We  left,  sir,  because  we  were  unable  to  perform 
our  functions.  I  mean  by  that  that  the  diplomatic  and  consular 
officers  could  not  longer  treat  with  the  de  facto  government;  that 
they  found  it  impossible  to  protect  American  citizens,  which  was  a 
part  of  their  function ;  that  they  could  not  correspond  with  our  Gov- 
ernment because  it  was  forbidden.  We  were  the  only  consulate  gen- 
eral in  Moscow  allowed  to  send  even  a  wireless,  and  we  have  found 
out  since  that  most  of  the  wireless  messages  we  sent  were  not  al- 
lowed to  pass  through.  We  have  also  found  out  that  most  of  the 
wireless  messages  which  were  sent  to  us,  which  are  serially  numbered, 
never  reached  us.  Being  unable  to  communicate  with  our  Govern- 
ments ;  being  treated  with  discourtesy ;  being  unable  to  protect  the 
lives  and  property  of  our  citizens  resident  there,  we  were  scarcely  in 
a  position  to  render  any  service  any  more.  The  danger,  as  such, 
played  no"  part  in  the  transaction  at  all,  except  for  those  who  had 


no  work  to  do.  For  us  who  had  work  to  do,  had  we  been  able  to  con- 
tinue that  work,  the  danger  would  have  had  nothing  to  do  with  it. 

Senator  Overman.  You  were  not  threatened? 

Mr.  Huntington.  As  a  matter  of  fact,  it  was  dangerous,  of  coui'se. 
The  British  Embassy  representatives  were  put  under  ai'rest.  The 
Americans  were  never,  until  the  time  we  left,  arrested,  with  the  ex- 
ception of  one  man  who  was  arrested  in  the  town  of  Vologda  and 
kept  under  arrest  some  10  days  before  we  knew  of  it.  They  never 
informed  us.     We  found  it  out  by  accident. 

The  British  and  French,  however,  including  the  consular  officers, 
were  arrested,  both  civilians  and  officials.  It  was  in  the  manifest 
impossibility  of  doing  any  work,  of  accomplishing  anything,  of  being 
allowed  to  communicate  with  our  Government  at  home,  being 

Senator  Overman.  Can  you  state  to  us  the  character  of  those  cruel- 
ties and  what  was  going  on  while  j'ou  were  there — ^the  extent  of  it  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes ;  I  can  to  a  considerable  extent ;  and  in  order 
to  make  you  understand  it,  perhaps  I  could  read  again  from  the 
official  proclamations  of  the  Bolshevik  government.  Reading  from 
the  official  newspapers  of  the  Bolshevik  government  under  date  of 
September  2,  there  is  the  following — this  was  the  day  after  we  passed 
the  border. 

Senator  Nelson.  September  2  of  what  year? 

Mr.  Huntington.  1918.     [Reading:] 

Murder  of  Volodarski  and  Urkitski — 

Urkitski  was  one  of  the  terrorist  commissars  who,  while  our  train 
was  lying  on  the  side  track  in  the  Finland  Station,  was  shot  by  a 
young  student  who  came  into  his  office.     [Continuing  reading :] 

Murder  of  Volodarski  and  Urkitski,  attempt  on  Lenin  and  shooting  of  masses 
of  our  comrades  in  Finland,  Ukrania,  the  Don  and  Tshecko-Slovia,  continual 
discovery  of  conspiracies  in  our  rear,  open  acknowledgement  of  right  social 
revolutionists  party  and  other  counter-revolutionary  rascals  of  their  part  in 
these  conspiracies,  together  with  insignificant  extent  of  serious  repressions  and 
shooting  of  masses  of  White  Guard  and  bourgeoisie  on  the  part  of  the  Soviets, 
all  these  things  show  that  notwithstanding  frequent  pronouncements  urging 
mass  terror  against  the  social  revolutionists.  White  Guards  and  bourgeoisie,  no 
real  terror  exists. 

Such  a  situation  should  decidedly  be  stopped.  End  should  be  put  to  weakness 
arid  softness.  All  right  social  revolutionists  known  to  local  Soviets  should  be 
arrested  immediately.  Numerous  hostages  should  be  taken  from  the  bourgeois 
and  officer  classes.  At  the  slightest  attempt  to  resist  or  the  slightest  movement 
among  the  White  Guards,  shootings  of  masses  of  hostages  should  be  begun 
without  fail.  Initiative  in  this  matter  rests  especially  with  the  local  executive 

Through  the  militia  and  extraordinary  commissions,  all  branches  of  govern- 
ment must  take  measures  to  seek  out' and  arrest  persons  hiding  under  false 
names  and  shoot  without  fail  anybody  conected  with  the  work  of  the  White 

All  above  measure  should  be  put  immediately  into  execution.  Indecisive 
action  on  the  part  of  local  Soviets  must  be  immediately  reported  to  peoples 
commissar  for  home  afiairs.  Not  the  slightest  hesitation  or  the  slightest 
indecisiveness  in  using  mass  terror. 

That  is  an  order  from  the  commissar  for  home  affairs  to  the 

Senator  Overman.  Explain  who  the  White  Guard  are. 

Mr.  Huntington.  The  White  Guard  are  everybody  except  the 
lied  Guard.    The  Eed  Guard  are  nominally  the  loyal  army,  gathered 


around  the  Bolshevik  government  to  fight  the  so-called  class  struggle 
for  the  social  revolution. 

Senator  Wolcott.  The  Eed  Guard  are  the  Bolsheviks  and  the 
White  Guard  are  everybody  else? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Practically  speaking,  that  is  it.  "  If  you  are  not 
with  us,  you  are  against  us." 

Senator  Overman.  Then  that  order  was  to  shoot  down  everybody 
who  was  not  with  them  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  And  to  shoot  hostages  if  anything  happened  to 
any  of  their  people. 

On  the  11th  of  September,  about  10  days  after  our  departure  from 
Eussia,  the  following  letter  was  received  by  Maj.  Allen  Wardwell, 
commanding  the  American  Red  Cross  in  Eussia.  Because  of  the 
shooting  of  a  large  number  of  people  in  Petrograd,  Maj.  Wardwell 
had  written  a  letter  as  a  Eed  Cross  officer  to  the  Bolshevik  govern- 
ment, namely  to  the  commissar  for  home  affairs,  Mr.  Tchitcherin, 
protesting  in  the  name  of  humanity  against  the  killings,  which  did 
not  take  place  in  field  fighting,  but  were  shootings  of  people  against 
brick  walls. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Massacres ;  murders  ? 

Mr.  Huntington:  Yes.    This  letter  is  as  follows: 

[Republique   Russe   Federative   (Jps   Soviets   Commissariat   du   Peupie   pour    Les   Affaires 
etrangeres  Le  11    Septeml>re,   1918,   Moscow.] 

Mr.  Allen  Waedwell, 

Major  Commanding  the  American  Red  Cross. 

Deae  Sib  :  It  is  only  because  the  body  which  you  represent  is  not  a  political 
organization  that  I  can  find  it  compatible  with  my  position  not  to  repudiate 
ofE  hand  your  intervention  as  a  displaced  immixtion  in  the  affairs  of  a  for- 
eign state,  but  to  enter  in  the  friendly  spirit  corresponding  to  the  character 
of  your  organization  into  a  discussion  of  the  matter  involved.  Tou  affirm 
that  your  organization  did  not  hesitate  to  condemn  acts  of  barbarity  on  the 
part  of  our  adversaries.  Where  are  these  utterances  of  condemnation?  When 
and  in  vehat  form  did  the  American  Red  Cross  protest  \yhen  the  streets 
of  Samars  were  filled  with  corpses  of  young  workers  shot  in  batches  by 
America's  allies  or  when  the  prisons'  of  Omsk  were  filled  with  tens  of 
thousands  of  the  flower  of  the  working  class  and  the  best  of  them  executed 
without  trial  or  when  just  now  in  Novorossiisk  the  troops  of  England's 
mercenary  AlexejefE  murdered  in  cold  blood  seven  thousand  wounded  who  were 
left  behind  by  our  retreating  army,  or  when  the  oossacks  of  the  same  Alexejeff 
murdered  without  distinction  the  young  men  of  their  own  race  in  whom  they 
see  a  revolutionary  vanguard?  I  would  be  very  glad  to  learn  what  the 
American  Red  Cross  has  done  in  order  to  publicly  brand  these  untold  atrocities, 
the  everyflay  work  of  our  enemies,  everywliere  iiracticed  liy  them  upon  our 
friends  when  they  have  the  power  to  do  it.  But  are  these  the  only  atrocities 
around  us? 

In  a  wider  field,  at  the  present  period  when  the  oligarchies  who  are  the 
rulers  of  the  world  drench  the  earth  with  streams  of  blood,  cover  it  with 
heaps  of  corpses  and  whole  armies  of  maimed  and  fill  the  whole  world  with 
unspeakable  sufferings,  why  do  you  turn  your  indignation  against  those  who, 
rising  against  this  whole  system  of  violence,  oppression,  and  murdei'  that 
bears  as  If  for  the  sake  of  mockery  the  name  of  civilization,  those  I  repeat 
who  in  their  desperate  struggle  against  the  ruling  system  of  the  present 
world  are  compelled  by  their  very  position  in  the  furnace  of  a  civil  war  to 
strike  the  class  foes  with  whom  the  life  and  struggle  is  raging?  And  in  a 
still  wider  field  are  not  the  sacrifices  still  greater,  still  more  innumerable, 
which  are  exacted  every  day  on  the  battlefield  of  labor  by  the  ruling  system 
of  exploitation  which  grinds  youth  and  life  force  and  happiness  of  the  multi- 
tude for  the  sake  of  the  profits  of  the  few?  How  can  I  characterize  the 
humanity  of  the  American  Red  Cross  which  is  dumb  to  the  system  of  every- 
day murder  and  turns  against  those  who  have  dared  to  rise  against  It  and 


surrounded  by  mortal  enemies  from  all  sides  are  compelled  to  strike? 
Against  these  fighters  who  have  thrust  themselves  Into  the  flre  of  battle  for 
a  whole  new  system  of  human  society  you  are  not  even  able  to  be  otherwise 
than  unjust.  Our  adversaries  are  not  executed  as  you  affirm  for  holding 
other  political  views  than  ourselves,  but  for  taking  part  in  the  most  terrible 
of  battles,  in  which  no  weapon  is  left  untouched  against  us,  no  crime  is  left 
aside  and  no  atrocities  are  considered  too  great  when  the  power  belongs  to 
them.  Is  it  not  known  to  you  that  by  the  decree  of  September  3rd  the  death 
sentences  are  applied  only  for  distinct  crimes,  and  besides  Randitism  and 
ordinary  crimes  they  are  to  be  applied  for  participation  in  the  white  guard 
movement,  that  is  the  movement  which  helps  to  surround  us  everywhere 
with  death  snares,  which  unceasingly  attacks  us  with  fire  and  sword  and 
every  possible  misfortune  and  wishes  to  prepare  for  us,  if  only  it  had  the 
power  to  do  so,  complete  extermination? 

You  speak  of  execution  of  500  persons  in  Petrograd  as  of  one  particularly 
striking  instance  of  acts  of  like  character.  As  for  the  number  it  is  the  only  one. 
Among  these  500,  200  were  executed  on  the  ground  of  the  decision  of  the  local 
organization  to  whom  they  were  very  well  known  as  most  active  and  danger- 
ous counter-revolutionaries  nnd  300  had  been  selected  already  sometime  ago  as 
belonging  to  the  vanguard  of  the  counter-revolutionary  movement.  In  the  pas- 
sion of  the  struggle  tearing  our  whole  people,  do  you  not  see  the  sufferings, 
untold  during  generations,  of  all  the  unknown  millions  who  were  dumb  during 
centuries,  and  whose  concentrated  despair  and  rage  have  at  last  burst  into  the 
open,  passionately  longing  for  a  new  life,  for  the  sake  of  which  they  have  the 
whole  existing  fabric  to  remove?  In  the  great  battles  of  mankind  hatred  and 
fury  are  even  so  unavoidable  as  in  every  battle  and  in  every  struggle.  Do  you 
not  see  the  beauties  of  the  heroism  of  the  working  class,  trampled  under  the  feet 
of  everybody  who  were  above  them  until  now,  and  now  rising  in  fury  and  pas- 
sionate devotion  and  enthusiasm  to  re-create  the  whole  world  and  the  whole  life 
of  mankind?  Why  are  you  blind  to  all  this  in  the  same  way  as  you  are  dumb 
to  the  system  of  atrocities  against  which  this  working  class  has  risen?  It  is 
only  natural,  then,  if  you  are  unjust  against  those  whom  you  light-heartedly  con- 
demn, if  you  distort  even  the  facts  of  the  case,  if  you  see  wanton  vengeance 
against  persons  of  other  views  there,  where  in  reality  there  is  the  most  terrible, 
the  most  passionate,  the  most  furious  battle  of  one  world  against  the  other, 
in  which  our  enemies  with  deadly  weapons  are  lurking  behind  every  street 
corner,  and  in  which  the  executions  of  which  you  speak,  executions  of  real  and 
deadly  enemies,  are  insignificant  in  comparison  with  the  horrors  which  these 
enemies  try  to  prepare  for  us,  and  in  comparison  with  the  immeasurable  horrors 
of  the  whole  system  with  which  we  are  at  present  at  grips  in  a  life  and  death 

I  remain. 

Yours,  truly, 

(Signed)  G.  Tchitchkbin. 

I  think  that  is  probably  as  good  a  statement  as  you  could  have  of 
the  point  of  view  and  the  aims  of  the  Bolshevik  government. 

Senator  Overman.  Did  you  observe  any  of  their  cruelties?  Did 
you  see  any  of  it  yourself? 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  have  seen  many  arrests.  I  have  been  in 
prisons.  I  was  never  personally  arrested.  I  have  not  been  present  at 
shootings.  I  have  known  of  people  being  led  out  to  be  shot.  Very 
few  people  are  present  at  shootings.  Satisfactory  evidence  had  it 
that  most  of  them  were  performed  at  night  and  in  cellars,  and,  it  was 
said,  with  Maxim  silencers  on  the  muzzles  of  the  rifles,  to  muffle  the 
sound.  Friends  of  mine  have  been  in  prisons  and  have  seen  people 
daily  led  out  for  shooting,  who  have  never  come  back.  I  have  seen 
deportations  of  whole  trainloads  of  people,  herded  in  freight  cars, 
taken  away  from  their  homes. 

Senator  Overman.  Women  and  children  also? 

Mr.  HtTNTiNGTON.  Men,  women,  and  children. 

Senator  Overman.  Was  there  a  reign  of  terror  there  ? 


Mr.  Huntington.  Very  decidedly,  sir;  and  there  is  no  denial  of 
it,  but  a  justification  of  it,  in  that  letter  and  in  the  other  letters.  If 
you  will  recall  the  words  which  I  read  from  the  same  Mr.  Tchitcherin 
to  the  neutral  legations,  you  will  recall  that  he  says  that  the  masses 
of  the  world  will  understand  what  they  are  doing  as  violence  neces- 
sary to  attain  a  certain  end,  and  will  not  only  understand  it  but  adopt 
it  themselves  in  their  respective  countries. 

If  yOu  have  nothing  more,  sir,  I  would  like  to  take  up  the  economic 

Senator  Nelson.  I  would  like  to  hear,  if  you  will  tell  us,  what  their 
plan  and  scheme  of  government  is— this  Bolshevik  government — and 
what  they  expect  to  accomplish.  That  is  more  important.  I  would 
like  to  know  what  sort  of  a  government  they  are  seeking  to  establish 
there,  and  upon  what  principles? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes,  sir ;  I  will  tell  you  the  best  I  know.  I  have 
been  present  there  throughout  the  whole  time,  and  I  am  able  to  read 
the  papers,  and  I  read  them  daily.  There  are  no  other  papers  in 
Russia  now,  and  have  not  been  for  many  months,  but  the  Bolshevik 
papers.  Long  ago  they  suspended  the  papers  of  all  parties  opposed 
to  them,  saying  that  freedom  of  the  press  must  unfortunately  be 
sacrificed  to  the  good  of  their  movement. 

Maj.  Humes.  Then  there  is  no  freedom  of  the  press  in  Russia  under 
the  Bolshevist  government? 

Mr.  Huntington.  There  is  no  pretense  of  freedom  of  the  press,  sir. 

Maj.  Humes.  Is  it  not  a  fact  that  the  constitution  of  the  soviet 
republic  provides  expressly  for  depriving  people  of  the  rights  of 
free  press  and  free  speech,  and  any  other  rights  that  may  be  exer- 
cised to  the  detriment  of  the  revolutionary  party  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes,  sir;  that  is  a  part  of  the  principle.  In  an- 
swer to  your  question.  Senator,  do  I  make  myself  plain? 

Senator  Nelson.  Well,  you  have  not  got  at  it  yet.    [Applause.] 

Senator  Overman.  What  does  that  mean,  that  cheering  back  there? 
Bring  an  officer  in  here,  Mr.  Clerk. 

Senator  Nelson.  I  want  to  know,  in  short,  what  their  scheme  and 
plan  of  government  is  that  they  are  inaugurating,  and  propose  to 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes,. sir;  I  will  tell  you  that,  the  best  I  can. 

Senator  Nelson.  And  the  methods  they  intend  to  pursue  in  in- 
augurating that  government. ,  That  is  what  we  are  anxious  to  know. 

Mr.  Huntington.  Briefly,  this:  The  present  state  of  the  world  is 
unsatisfactory.  We  have  war.  We  have  injustice  to  the  gi'eat  masses 
of  the  people,  so  they  say.  These  are  great  evils.  The  present  state 
of  the  constitution  of  society,  which  is  known  as  the  capitalist  state, 
has  outlived  its  usefulness ;  has  shown  itself  unable  to  cope  with  these 
great  injustices,  war,  and  unequal  distribution  of  wealth.  The  capi- 
talist state  of  society  must,  therefore,  go.  To  get  rid  of  the  capitalist 
state  of  society,  which  is  a  long  habit  with  human  nature,  is  a  very 
difficult  task.  It  is  faced  primarily  by  the  difficulty  that  those  who 
have  property  part  with  it  unwillingly.  Now,  in  order  to  get  rid  of 
this  capitalist  state  of  society  we  are  going  to  have  the  socialist  state 
of  society,  loosely,  because  the  definitions  of  various  people  differ, 
but  in  general,  a  state  of  society  whereby  the  government,  the  state, 
owns  all  the  means  of  production,  factories,  farms,  railroads,  in- 


dustries,  steamship  lines,  etc.,  ^Yhereby  there  is  no  property  ex- 
cept— I  do  not  know  about  personal  property;  that  depends  on  the 
views  of  the  individual  persons — but  there  is  no  great  property,  no 
industrial  property,  no  fartiing  property,  in  private  ownership,  but 
only  that  of  the  state ;  that  by  removing  from  the  capitalist  class  the 
temptation  of  money  g'etting,  by  the  fact  that  they  can  no  longer  ac- 
cumulate wealth  but  become  govex-nment  servants,  like  those  of  us 
who  are  to-day  in  the  employ  of  the  government,  by  removing  those 
temptations,  war  and  injustice  are  obviated. 

Senator  Nelson.  One  part  of  their  creed,  then,  is  to  divest  private 
ownership  of  all  property  and  property  rights,  and  confer  it  upon 
the  state  or  the  government? 
Mr.  Huntington.  Very  definitely;  yes,  sir. 

Senator  Nelson.  That  is  one  of  the  primary  articles  of  faith. 
Then,  after  they  have  done  that,  after  they  have  taken,  for  instance, 
the  land  from  the  private  owners,  what  do  they  provide  as  to  the 
utilization  of  the  land  after  that  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  That  is  to  come  later.    If  1  may  go  on,  I  would 
like  to  answer  that  in  a  moment. 
Senator  Nelson.  Go  on;  yes. 

Mr.  Huntington.  To  realize  this  is  very  difficult.  They  have 
found,  naturally,  there  is  great  opposition  on  the  part  of  those  who 
own  the  property.  Their  aims,  they  say,  are  the  aims  of  the  socialist 
movement  throughout  the  world  for  many  years,  but  the  socialist 
movement  throughout  the  world,  which  is  opposed  to  them  to-day,  , 
has  been  unsuccessful  because  it  has  tried  to  work  in  the  parliamen- 
tary manner,  by  convincing  people,  sending  representatives  to  par- 
liament and  voting  their  measures  through.  They  therefore  have  to 
resort  to  compulsion.  To  compel,  they  divest  those  who  have  prop- 
erty of  that  property  by  force.  Should  they  resist,  they  may  even 
kill  them,  as  you  have  seen,  and  justify  that. 

Senator  Nelson.  In  short,  they  propose  to  divest  the  ownei-s  of 
their  property,  by  violence,  if  need  be  ? 
Mr.  Huntington.  If  need  be. 
Senator  NEL'iON.  And  without  any  compensation? 
Mr.  Huntington.  Without  any  compensation.  In  the  interim 
when  their  new  state  is  being  prepared — an  interim  of  indefinite 
length — they  provide  for  the  so-called  dictatorate  of  the  proletariat; 
that  is,  to  take  and  arbitrarily  divide  all  mankind  into  so-called 
bourgeois,  that  is  the  capitalists — and  in  that  they  include  everj^one 
from  those  who  own  the  smallest  houses,  right  through  to  a  million- 
aire. They  arbitrarily  divide  all  mankind  into  that  class — and,  on  the 
other  hand,  the  proletariat,  who  ha^-e  no  property  holdings.  They 
want  to  push  out  of  the  way  the  upper  class.  They  do  not  con- 
template the  participation  of  this  class  in  the  government.  They 
contemplate  the  participation  only  of  the  proletariat  in  the  govern- 
ment, and  that  is  why,  on  this  question  of  a  dictature  of  the  prole- 
tariat—that is,  when  they  have  finished  their  revolution  in  Eussiaj 
not  the  original  revolution  but  their  revolution— they  intend  to  keep 
the  formerly  propertied  classes  from  voting  in  the  new  government 
whichi  they  will  have  established. 

The  dictature  of  the  proletariat  is  fraught  with  difficulty  because, 
especially  in  a  countiy  like  Eussia,  where  due  to  the  tyranny  and 


laziness  of  the  olcl  regime,  the  proletariat  had  very  few  chances,  the 
proletariat  are  not  educated.  So  they  need  leaders,  a,nd  Mr.  Lenine 
and  Mr.  Trotsky  and  their  associates  put  themselves  forward  as  the 
leaders.  '  The"  result  is  that  whereas  there  is  on  paper  a  complete 
system  of  voting,  of  representation,  the  central  executive  committee 
of  all. the  Soviets — which,  as  you  have  rightly  stated,  are  placed 
throughout  the  country  wherever  their  power  extends — is  dominated 
by  a  few  brainy  men,  fanatics  like  Lenine  and  Trotskj\  The  for- 
merly propertied  classes — and  of  course  in  their  division  they  make 
it  arbitrarj',  as  they  like — could  not  participate  in  this  council,  nor 
is  it  expected  that  they  will.  At  some  distant  date,  when  this  prelimi- 
nary ground  work  is  carried  out,  it  is  contemplated  to  permit  these 
people  who,  by  that  time,  perhaps  have  had  a  change  of  heart,  or  to 
permit  their  children,  to  participate  in  the  new  social  state  which  has 
then  been  reached.- ■  This  is  an  interregnum  in  which  the  proletariat 
conducts  the  didtature. 

Senator  Nelson.  In  that  term  "  proletariat "  you  include  not 
only  workmen  but  others — peasants? 

Mr.  HtJNTiNGTON.'  Yes;  that  term  originally  included  workmen 
only,  but  was  exfehded  to  peasants;  but  they  came  from  the  party  of 
worlarien  in  the  ''eifies  in  former  times,  and  not  the  peasants. 

Senator  Nelson.  What  has  become  of  the  old  nihilist  element? 
Are  they  mixed  into  this  new  scheme  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  am  not  competent  to  pass  on  that. 
Maj.  Hx;mes.>' Is  there  nOt  a  distinction,  in  their  ■  application  of 
their  laws  and -their  administration,  between  peasants  and  what  they 
term  the  "  poor  "  peasants  ? 

Mr.  HtJNTiiiGTON.  Gn  that  comes  again  the  question.  I  told  you 
that  they  divided;  mankind  arbitrarily  into  two  classes;  the  bour- 
geois, as  they  sayj-thatis  those  who  have  Capital,  and  the  proletariat. 
Of  course,  they  make  the  division,  they  make  the  distinction,  and  they 
put  in  "their  divi^si'dns  whom  they  like,  because  it  is  an  arbitrary 
matter.  In  Russia  there  are','  in  most  peasant  communities,  peasants 
who  have,  under  the  systems  which  have  been  provided,  bought 
lands  of  their  ovifri'."- There  are  certain  ones, who,  as  it  happens  in 
every  community,  are  better  provided  with  the  good  things  of  life, 
the  harder  workers  of  more  energetic,  and  they  are  systematically 
excluded  by  the  Bolsheviks  and  placed  opposite,  in  the  community, 
to  the  so-called  poor  peiasants;  those  who  have  little  property,  who 
in  the  old  vodka  days  had  been  addicted  to  drunkenness,  or  who 
econoiriically.  have  inade  poor  progress  in  life.  In  the  villages  those 
two  groups  of  men  are  set  against  each  other. 

Senator  Nelson.  Is  hot  this  true,  when  you  come  back  to  the 
peasantry  and  all, farmers,  that  the  ownership  of  land  is  in  what 
they-  call  the  mir^  the  village  community;  that  they  are  settled  in 
villages,  in  communities,  and  the  title  of  the  land  is  in  the  mir  or 
in  the  community— in  the  municipality,  as  we  call  it  here^-and 
that  they  from  year  to  year  apportion  parts  of  the  land  to  be  used 
by  cerfein  peasant^*?  In  other  words,  the  peasants  are  not  cdm- 
plete'.-owners,  iri:the- sense  in  which  our  farmers  are  owners,  but 
the  ownership  of  theiand  is  in  the  community,  the  mir,  and  the  mir 
distributes  the  •  usfe  of  the  land  among  the  peasants  ?  Is  not  that 
the  condition?  '  - 


Mr.  Huntington.  That  is  true,  Senator,  for  about  80  per  cent  of 
the  country. 

Senator  Nelson.  Yes. 

Mr.  Huntington.  The  remaining  one-fifth,  we  will  say,  of  the 
lands  are  in  private  ownership. 

Senator  Nelson.  In  large  estates? 

Mr.  Huntington.  No;  I  do  not  speak  of  those  now.  I  leave 
those  quite  out  of  account.  I  am  speaking  of  the  peasants,  the 
20  per  cent ;  and  that  varies  according  to  the  portion  of  the  country. 
Private  peasant  ownership  is  more  in  the  south  and  west  than  in  the 
north.  They  are  not  only  sometimes  the  holders  of  the  mir,  in 
which  they  have  a  part,  but  they  own  land  of  their  own,  which  it 
was  permitted  them  to  buy  or  arranged  for  them  to  buj'  under  cer- 
tain reforms  introduced  by  the  old  imperial  government. 

Senator  Nelson.  That  is  mostly  in  southern  Russia  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  The  majority  of  it  is  southern  Russia  and 
western  Russia. 

Senator  Nelson.  In  what  we  call  the  Ukraine  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.    The  Ukraine  is  the  heart  of  South  Russia. 

Senator  Overman.  Now,  having  got  this  property,  taken  from 
the  people  who  owned  it,  into  the  State,  what  do  they  propose  to  do 
with  it? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Just  the  same  as  the  ideal  socialists.  I  sup- 
pose you  are  speaking  of  the  fact 

Senator  Overman.  What  do  they  propose  to  accomplish?  What 
is  the  end?  When  they  get  all  this  property  in  the  State,  what 
do  they  propose  to  do  with  it  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  It  is  proposed  that  life  should  go  on  very 
much  as  it  does  now,  except  very  much  better ;  that  we  should  have 
food,  and  clothing,  and  transportation,  and  all  those  things  under 
the  State  instead  of  in  private  ownership;  that  all  of  us  will  be 
employees  of  the  State  and  not  employees  of  private  concerns. 

Senator  Overman.  All  government  officers? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes. 

Senator  Overman.  Everybody  will  be  a  government  officer? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Nelson.  How  do  they  propose  to  handle  the  manufactur- 
ing industries  under  the  new  regime  ?  How  do  they  propose  to  oper- 
ate them  ?  Now,  we  will  say  that  the  workmen  take  possession  of  a 
big  industrial  plant  under  this  system,  what  do  they  propose  to  do 
after  they  have  taken  possession,  and  how  do  they  propose  to  operate? 

Mr.  Huntington.  What  happened,  sir,  was  this :  In  the  beginning 
of  their  administration  they  immediately  provided  for  the  so-called 
control  of  production  of  the  factories  by  the  workmen,  and  this  went 
into  effect;  and  workmen's  committees  did  actually  take  over  most 

Senator  Nelson.  In  other  words,  they  were  to  be  run  by  the  work- 
men themselves? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes,  sir.  In  the  original  legislation,  as  I  remem- 
ber it,  the  proprietor  would  be  in  a  manner  engaged  as  an  expert 
assistant.  Indeed,  it  was  first  provided,  I  believe,  that  he  should 
receive  a  rental  for  his  work,  and  he  would  participate  in  the  man- 
agement.   They  would  get  the  benefit  of  his  experience. 


Senator  Nelson.  They  went  so  far,  however,  in  their  program  as 
to  recognize  the  fact  that  they  needed  experts  who  belonged  to  the 
capitalist  class,  who  were  termed  intellectuals,  and  to  say  that  they 
would  employ  some  of  them  in  the  first  instance  to  assist  them  in 
running  the  factories ;  was  not  that  true  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  They  took  over  the  factories  with  a  great  deal  of 
enthusiasm,  but  very  shortly,  in  most  cases,  came  to  grie£  That  is,  a 
variety  of  things  happened;  either  the  grief  remamed  or  in  some 
cases  tactful  employers  made  an  arrangement  with  their  men  whereby 
really  their  brains  were  used  in  the  production,  and  there  was  a 
modus  operandi  worked  out  between  them  and  the  factory  and  the 
factory  was  enabled  to  go  on. 

Where  that  did  not  take  place  the  factory  came  to  grief,  as  most 
of  them  did. 

Even  where  that  did  take  place,  under  the  very  unusual  circum- 
stances the  operation  of  the  factory  was  hardly  an  operation  of  nor- 
mal times,  where  an  income  has  to  be  earned  on  the  investment. 

Senator  Nelson.  Of  course  they  expected  to  operate  all  the  rail- 
roads— this  government  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Seventy  per  cent  of  the  total  mileage  has 
always  been  operated  by  the  govermnent  in  Russia. 

Senator  Nelson.  They  have  been  operated  by  the  government,  so 
that  the  transition  was  not  so  great  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  No,  sir. 

.  Senator  Nelson.  But  what  did  they  propose  to  do  after  they  had 
seized  the  lands  and  taken  possession  of  them?  How  did  they  pro- 
pose to  utilize  those  lands,  and  what  show  did  they  propose  to  give 
the  peasants  ? 

'  Mr.  Huntington.  In  the  first  place,  they  nationalized  the  land. 
It  became  the  property  of  the  state ;  and  whereas  there  has  not  been 
time  in  such  an  enormous  place  as  Russia  to  work  all  these  things 
out,  in  general  they  gave  immediate  order  to  the  peasants  to  take  the 
land  of  the  contiguous  estates  of  the  landholders.  There  was  not 
much  order  about  that,  and  that  has  resulted  in  difficulty;  but  they 
were  going  on  this  simple  plan,  to  take  the  land  and  then  divide  it 
up  amongst  themselves. 

Senator  Nelson.  When  the  peasants  divided  the  land  up,  were  they 
to  get  title  to  their  little  patches  of  land  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Oh,  no,  sir;  because  the  land  is  nationalized. 
It  belongs  to  the  state. 

Senator  Nelson.  They  were  simply  to  cultivate  it  as  a  species  of 
tenants  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes,  sir. 

Maj.  Humes.  In  that  connection,  a  paragraph  from  the  Soviet  Re- 
public constitution  might  be  of  interest  as  to  its  provisions  on  that 
subject.     [Reading:] 

For  the  purpose  of  realizing  the  principle  of  the  socialization  of  land,  private 
ownership  in  land  is  abolished  and  the  entire  land  fund  is  declared  the  property 
of  the  people  and  Is  turned  over  to  the  toilers  without  any  indemnity  upon  the 
I>rinciple  of  equalization  of  Innd-allotments. 

And  again: 

All  forests,  mineral  wealth,  water  power  and  waterways  of  public  importance, 
as  well  as  all  live  stock  and  agricultural  implements,  all  model  landed  estates 
and  agricultural  enterprises  are  declared  national  property. 


As  a  first  step  to  the  complete  transfer  of  factories,  mills,  miues,  railroads 
and  other  means  of  production  and  transportation  into  property  of  the  Workers' 
and  Pensants'  Soviet  Republic,  the  law  ((iiicoTiiini;  the  workers'  control  and 
concerning  the  Supreme  Council  for  National  Economy,  which  aims  at  securing 
the  power  of  the  tollers  over  the  exploiters,  is  hereby  confirmed. 

Senator  Xelsox.  That  is  ^erv  good.  That  ought  to  go  into  the 
record,  if  it  is  not  in  already. 

Maj.  HyjiEs.  There  are  just  two  or  three  more  sentences  covering 
that  subject.     [Continuing  reading:] 

The  3rd  Convention  of  the  Soviets  considers  tlie  Soviet  law  concerning  the 
annulling  (repudiation)  of  loans  contracted  by  the  governments  of  the  Tzar, 
the  landlords  and  the  capitalists,  as  the  first  blow  at  international  banking 
and  financial  capital  and  expresses  the  conviction  that  the  Soviet  government 
will  advance  steadfastly  along  this  path  until  complete  vieti>ry  of  the  interna- 
tional workers  against  the  yoke  of  capitalism  is  secured. 

The  principle  of  the  transfer  of  all  banks  to  the  property  of  the  workers'  and 
peasants'  state,  as  one  of  the  conditions  of  emancipation  of  the  toiling  masses 
from  the  yoke  of  capital,  is  hereby  reaffirmed. 

For  the  purpose  of  doing  away  with  parasitical  elements  in  society  and  of 
organizing  the  economic  affairs  of  the  country,  universal  obligatory  labor 
service  is  established. 

In  order  to  secure  full  power  for  the  toiling  masses  and  to.  remove  every 
opportunity  for  reestablishin'g  the  government  of  the  exploiters,  the  principle 
of  arming  the  toilers,  of  forming  a  Socialist  Red  Army  of  the  workers  and 
peasants,  and  of  completely  dLsarming  the  ijroperty-holdiug  classes  is  hereby 

Senator  Oveemax.  Proceed,  Doctor. 

Mr.  HuxTiNGTON.  Eeturning  to  the  Senator's  question  about  the 
factories,  I  would  like  to  complete  that  by  saying  that  whereas  the 
first  phase  was  the  workmen's  control,  wliereby  a  committee  was 
formed  in  each  factory  to  take  charge  of  that  factory,  the  second 
phase  was  later  introduced  by  nationalizing  of  the  factories,  just  in 
the  same  manner  as  the  land  has  been  nationalized.  In  other  words, 
whereas  in  the  first  place  theoretically  the  factory  was  not  imme- 
diately taken  out  of  the  hands  of  the  owner,  but  was  to  be  turned 
over  to  the  control  of  his  workmen,  by  the  decree  of  nationalization 
the  factory  passed  from  the  ownership  of  the  former  owner  into  th« 
ownership  of  the  State. 

Senator  Nelson.  To  be  operated  by  the  workmen? 

Mr.  Huntington.  To  be  operated  under  what  was  called  the  Su- 
preme Council  of  National  Economy.  That  introduced  practical 
difficulties  again,  since  that  factory  was  then  to  be  operated  theoreti- 
cally as  one  of  a  chain,  one  of  a  system,  and  that  produced  friction 
and  quarrels  between  separate  factories,  practically,  for  the  reason, 
of  course,  that  some  factories  were  better  provided  with  the  raw  ma- 
terials than  others,  and  in  a  system  of  distribution  whereby  each  was 
to  receive  a  fair  part  would  have  to  give  up,  if  they  were  better 
provided,  perhaps,  some  of  the  materials  which  they  had,  which 
would  stop  their  production  earlier.  The  great  fact  in  all  the  in- 
dustry there  is,  of  course,  that  it  is  not  running  at  the  present  time, 
unless  you  want  to  say  that  a  few  machines,  or  one  isolated  factory, 
or  something  of  that  kind,  is  running;  but  it  is,  on  the  whole,,  not 
running,  for  the  very  good  reason  that  there  are  no  raw  materials 
present  to  work  on,  neither  iron,  coal,  petroleum,  nor  cotton;  and 
cotton  spinning  and  cotton  weaving  is  the  chief  industry  in  Russia, 
the  biggest  one  in  Russia  aside  frm  farming. 


Senator  Nelson.  Here  is  a  matter  that  occurs  to  me.  After  the^ 
have  succeeded  in  nationalizing  all  the  land  and  all  the  industries, 
in  other  words,  taking  it  over  by  the  Government  and  operating  it 
by  the  Government,  what  is  their  scheme  of  taxation  for  securing 
revenue  to  run  the  Government,  and  who  is  to  pay  the  tayxes? 

Mr.  Huntington.  That  is  not  clear  to  me  in  theory,  and  in  practice 
there  was  no  system  of  taxation  put  through.  The  only  taxation  that 
I  have  seen  was  in  the  matter  of  contributions  levied  on  the  capi- 
talist class.  Take  this  instance.  In  the  newspapers  of  Omsk,  in 
Siberia,  which  I  have  seen,  and  of  which  I  have  copies,  there  ap- 
peared a  list  of  the  men  or  firms  in  the  town  who  were  to  pay  25,000 
or  50,000  or  100,000  roubles,  or  whatever  it  may  be.  The  agency  of 
the  International  Harvester  Co.,  when  our  train  passed  through 
Novo-Nikolaevsk  (in  Siberia)  in  March  had  just  been  called  upon  to 
pay  a  fine,  I  think,  of  35,000  rubles,  and  I  Avas  asked,  as  an  em- 
bassy representative,  at  that  time  to  send  a  telegram  to  the  local 
soviet  pointing  out  that  this  was  an  American  concern  and  should 
not  be  asked  to  pay  this  fine. 

Apart  from  the  contributions,  their  revenue  system  is  chiefly  the 
printing  press. 

Senator  Nelson.  You  mean  printing  bills  and  bonds? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Printing  paper  money,  yes;  and  when  the  ob- 
jection is  raised  to  that  that  they  have  long  since  passed  any  gold 
reserve,  the  answer  is  simply  that  since  the  land  is  now  nationalized, 
all  of  Russia  belongs  to  the  Russian  Government,  and  all  of  Russia  is 
certainly  worth  all  the  paper  that  has  been  issued  up  to  this  time. 

Senator  Nelson.  Yes;  but  you  spoke  about  collecting  the  taxes. 
After  they  have  been  divested  of  all  their  property,  and  it  has  all 
been  condemned  and  taken  over  by  the  State,  there  are  no  more 
capitalists.    There  can  not  be  any  more  taxes,  can  there? 

Mr.  Huntington.  There  will  not  be  now;  but  there  were  at  that 
time.  At  that  time  they  did  not  take  a  man's  bank  account  from  him. 
They  forbade  him  access  to  his  bank  account,  but  his  account  re- 
mained on  the  books,  supposedly,  of  the  bank.  They  could  force 
him  to  sign  a  check  against  that  account.  They  could  also  force 
people  who  had  no  bank  account  to  dig  up  cash.  I  personally  lived 
in  Siberia,  in  Irkutsk,  with  a  former  merchant  who  had  such  a  con- 
tribution levied  on  him,  and  who  borrowed  the  money  from  his 
friends  to  pay  it.  He  did  so  against  the  advice  of  many  Russians, 
and  against  our  advice,  because  we  thought  that  he  would  be  asked 
for  a  second  contribution — that  he  would  be  askecl  a  second  time ;  but 
he  actually  went  out  and  borrowed  the  money  from  his  friends  who 
had  it  put  away  in  chimneypieces  and  stockings,  or  under  mattresses — 
who  had  been  able  to  save  it,  in  other  words — in  order  to  avoid 
being  sent  to  prison,  which  was  the  alternative. 

Senator  Wolcott.  You  say  that  in  defense  of  their  printing-press 
money  they  say  that  the  State  owns  the  land  and  that  Russia  is  worth 
as  miich  money  as  has  been  issued.    That  is  their  answer  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  That  is  one  of  their  answers. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Do  you  know  whether  anjj^body  eVer  suggested 
to  them  that  that  is  rather  insecure,  because  if  the  paper  money  is 
issued  and  is  in  sight  to  be  collected,  the  fellow  that  gets  the  land 
will  have  it  taken  away  from  him  again?  Is  there  any  answer  to 
that,  that  you  have  heard  ? 


Mr.  Huntington.  Oh,  they  have  an  answer  for  almost  anything. 

Senator  WoLCOTT.  It  would  be  a  curious  one,  to  that. 

Mr.  Huntington.  Most  of  the  answers  are  curious,  from  a  normal 
man's  view.  The  thought,  processes  of  those  people  are  not  in  the 
usual  grooves. 

About  conditions,  may  I  speak  as  to  conditions  as  they  exist  there 
now,  as  I  saw  them  before  I  left 

Senator  Overman.  That  is  what  we  want  to  hear. 

Mr.  Huntington  (continuing).  And  what  they  have  become  since. 
I  beg  permission  to  read  here,  because  I  have  been  so  often  asked 
whether  there  has  been  starvation  in  the  cities  of  Russia,  three  letters 
written  by  a  woman  who  was  formerly  a  clerk,  a  translator  in  the 
American  Embassy,  and  written  to  a  friend  of  her's  in  this  country. 
The  letters  are  dated  September  16,  20,  and  23. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Of  what  year  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Nineteen  eighteen.  That  is,  they  are  only  a 
few  months  old.  The  first  letter  I  will  quote  from  is  as  follows.  The 
original  is  in  the  hands  of  the  young  man  to  whom  it  was  written. 
It  is  dated  September  16, 1918.   "^[Reading:] 

I  am  glad  you  are  not  here  just  now;  living  conditions  are  awfully  hard. 
Have  you  ever  seen  people  dying  on  the  street?  I  did,  three  times,  twice  it  was 
men,  workmen  apparently,  once  an  old  woman.  One  man  fell  down  in  the 
Furshtadtskaya,  the  other  on  the  Liteinye,  when  I  walked  home  from  the  office 
last  Sunday.  Maybe  it  was  from  cholera,  maybe  from  starvation.  The  woman 
died  on  the  Ussacheff  Pereoulck.  She  was  sitting  quite  a  while  on  the  pave- 
ment, then  quietly  laid  down.  Nobody  paid  any  attention  to  her.  Later  on  a 
Red  Cross  car  carried  her  away.  But  horses  are  not  removed,  when  they  die 
on  the  streets  they  just  lie  there  for  weeks,  and  hungry  dogs  tear  their  bodies 
to  pieces. 

I  don't  think  the  people  died  from  cholera,  they  were  not  sick,  just  horribly 
thin  and  pale.  It's  awfully  hard ;  I  wouldn't  have  believed  it  if  I  hadn't  seen 
it  myself.  These  three  cases  Illustrate  to  you  the  conditions  of  Petrograd  better 
than  descriptions.  People  are  dying  quietly,  horribly  quietly,  without  any  groan 
or  curse,  poor  helpless  creatures,  slaves  of  the  terrible  rgglme  of  to-day.  I 
think  that's  really  the  only  thing  the  Russian  people  can  do  well. 

Altogether  Petrograd  is  a  dead  town  now.  People  are  very,  very  few,  nearly 
no  "  eats."  Trams  are  half  empty,  half  of  the  shops  are  closed.  Heaps  of 
offices  opened,  "  Commission  offices  "  as  they  call  themselves,  buying  and  selling 
furniture,  tableware,  linen,  articles  of  luxury,  etc.,  of  people  who  leave  the 
country  or  who  just  sell  everything  they  possess  so  as  not  to  starve.  Most 
precious,  vulgar,  or  intimate  things  of  housekeeping  are  sold  publicly.  It's 
sometimes  comical,  most  times  most  sad  and  shocking.  There  seems  to  be 
nothing  precious  any  more  in  families,  everything  is  to  be  bought. 

You  cannot  imagine  what  is  going  on  in  this  country.  Everything  what  is 
cultured,  wealthy,  accomplished  or  educated  is  being  prosecuted  and  systemati- 
cally destroyed.  But  you  know  it  all  through  papers,  don't  you?  We  all  here 
live  under  a  perpetual  strain  under  fear  of  arrest  and  execution.  Yesterday 
bulletins  appeared  on  corners  of  all  streets  announcing  that  the  allies  and  the 
bourgeoisie  have  spread  cholera  and  hunger  all  over  Russia  and  calling  to  open 
slaughter  of  the  latter. 

Do  you  remember  the  little  market  on  the  Basseinaja  where  they  used  to  sell 
food  stufE?  It  is  now  transferred  into  a  place  where  people  of  society  sell  all 
their  belongings,  overcoats,  furs,  shoes,  kitchenware,  table  and  bed  linen,  etc. ; 
they  sell  everything  right  on  the  streets.  The  food  question  is  terribly  acute. 
Petrograd  lives  on  herrings  and  apples.  Yes,  also  on  "  vobla."  That  is  fish, 
dried  in  the  sun.  The  size  of  it  is  about  the  same  as  of  a  small  herring's,  and 
it  smells  horribly.  But  it  can  be  eaten  when  properly  soaked  and  boiled.  We 
always  used  to  know  "  vobla  "  as  a  swearword.  But  now  I  know  that  it  is  a 
flsh,  and  eatable. 

You  know,  Stranger,  people  here  are  starving  in  accordance  with  four  cater 
gories.    The  first  category   (workmen)   get  i  pound  of  bread  every  two -days. 


i.  e.,  J  of  a  pound  a  day,  and  two  herrings ;  2  category  workmen  who  do  easy 
work,  get  i  pound  of  bread  every  two  days,  and  two  herrings.  The  tliird  cate- 
gory, people  who  "  drink  other  people's  blood  and  exploit  other  people's  work," 
i.  e.,  people  who  live  on  mental  work,  (sic!)  get  two  herrings  every  two  days, 
and  no  bread,  and  the  fourth  category  (not  mentioned  on  the  inclosed  slip) 
also  people  who  "  drink,  etc."  get  nothing  at  all,  sometimes  two  herrings.  I  in- 
Close  a  slip  from  our  official  paper,  which  mentions  these  four  categories.  The 
paper  is  called  "  Severanaja  Communa "  (The  Northern  Commune).  People 
may,  of  course  buy  food  besides  the  food  they  get  from  cooperative  stores, 
mentioned  above,  and  which  is  at  a  reasonable  price  (if  a  herring  a  day  and 
iw  lb.  of  bread  can  be.  called  food)  but  the  prices  are  enormous.  One  lb.  of 
black  bread  costs  Rs.  15. 

I  should  say  we  get  more  rubles  for  a  dollar  in  Kussia  than  you 
can  get  in  New  York.  We  paid  10  cents  for  a  ruble  up  to  the  time 
of  leaving,  which  was  therefore  10  rubles  to  the  dollar,  and  I  shall 
divide  the  ruble  prices  and  give  you  the  prices  immediately  in  gold. 
[Continuing  reading:] 

One  lb.  of  black  bread  costs  $1.50,  1  lb.  of  white  flour  Rs.  17  to  20,  black 
flour  $1.10  to  $1.20.  Potatoes  cost  32  to  38  cents  a  lb.,  butter  $2,  and  so  on 
Do  you  remember  the  big  store  on  the  corner  of  Snamenskaja  and  Kirochnaja, 
where  soldiers  used  to  live  and  where  there  were  once  on  the  windows  heaps  ot 
rotten  potatoes?  The  shop  is  now  occupied  by  a  commissioner's  office,  who 
sells  everything  in  the  world,  and  on  the  corner  there  is  quite  a  little  market, 
consisting  of  ladies  and  children  of  society,  who  sell  lumps  of  sugar  at  Rs.  1.20 
apiece  and  thin  slices  of  black  bread,  I  don't  know  at  what  price. 

I,  myself,  have  seen  this,  on  August  28,  1918.  [Continuing  read- 

And  this  year  Russia  has  unusually  good  crops !  People  who  have  a  little 
bit  of  money  left,  run  away  from  Russia.  They  sell  everything  they  possess 
and  just  run.  They  go  mainly  to  the  Baltic  provinces  and  to  Ukrainia.  And 
you  know,  its  the  German  consulate  there  who  helps  them  to  get  permits  and 
"tickets.  I  don't  know  how  the  Germans  manage  to  do  it,  but  I  know  for  sure 
that  they  do.  They  do  it  also  very  willingly  if  people  get  them  good  money 
in  exchange  of  their  Kerenki,  which  they  have  heaps. 

That  is,  the  money  of  the  old  regime,  of  the  Czar,  in  exchange  for 
the  kerenki.  Kerenki  is  the  little  money  that  was  brought  out  at 
the  time  of  the  Kerensky  government,  in  denominations  of  20  and  40 
rubles,  and  which  is  about  the  size  of  my  finger,  and  which  is  not 
pretty,  and  which  is  often  looked  down  upon  by  the  people ;  and  they 
prefer  the  fine  looking  bills  of  the  former  day. 

Here  is  another  letter.     [Reading:] 

We  have  four  new  decrees  now.  The  first  concerns  the  loding  question ;  the 
second,  forced  hard  labor  for  the  bourgeoisie;  the  third,  requisition  of  warm 
clothes  for  the  Bed  Army,  and  the  fourth  concerns  distribution  of  food. 

First  about  lodgings.  Comrade  ZinoviefE,  little  Jew  Apfelbaum,  on  a  meet- 
ing of  the  Soldiers'  and  Workmen's  deputies  said,  that  "the  bourgeoisie  has 
not  been  enough  '  reduced  to  beggary  '  yet ;  that  they  still  have  to  give  back 
what  they  have  acquired  by  way  of  exploiting  of  oppressions,  by  way  of  blood 
and  sweat  of  the  workman.  They  have  now  to  give  their  comfortable  lodgings 
and  furniture.  The  war  has  temporarily  diverted  the  attention  of  the  Soviet 
power  from  this  point,  which  can  as  well  be  pressed  on  the  bourgeoisie.  They 
still  have  much.  The  best  houses,  the  best  apartments  and  shops  belong  to 
them.  It  is  time  to  put  an  end  to  it.  The  workmen,  in  spite  of  the  decree,  still 
show  fear,  indecisiveness.  Socialism  is  not  carried  through  in  this  way. 
Further,  the  speaker  refers  to  Engles  and  other  Socialists  and  Paris  com- 
muneers  who  discussed  the  lodging  question.  "The  workmen  must  come  up 
from  their  caves  into  the  upper  floors.  Half  measures  must  not  be  tolerated. 
The  workmen  must  take  the  initiative  themselves,  they  must  abandon  their 
psychology  of  slaves,  that  in  rich  houses,  not  filled  up  by  workmen  they  will 
feel  uncomfortable.    We  do  not  want  Nevsky,  this  street  of  prostitutes,  we  want 


Kamenoostrovsky,  Vassily,  Ostroff,  etc.  Workmen  had  enough  courage,  to  go  on 
the  barricades,  to  stand  against  imperialistic  bayonets,  to  .break  down  the  im- 
perialistic power,  but  to  put  their  own  lives  and  the  lives"  of  tlieir  J;amilies  in 
better  conditions  they  are  iifraid.  If  they  will  need  money  or  means  of 
transportation  they  will  get  them.  If  a  milliard  will  }}e  needed — the  Soviet 
will  give  it.  The  lack  of  courage  still  proves  that  a  little  of  a  counterrevolu- 
tioneer  still  sticks  in  our  souls  and  shows  resistance.  Wdrljmen  still  .consider 
themselves  the  fourth  class,  while  they  are  the  first  now  since  a  long  time.  And 
soon  the  time  will  come  now,  that  they  will  be  the  first  in  the  whole  world." 

Referring  to  reasons  why  workmen  themselves  hesitate  to'' socialize  the 
lodgings.  Comrade  Zinovieff  gives  one  of  them  as  fear  of,  workmen  families 
to  be  sent  back  to  their  old  lodgings  by  the  "  White  Guard,"  i.  e.,  allies,  bour- 
geoisie, etc.  "  But  the  proletariat  should  be  quiet  in  this"  respect,"  he  says, 
"  if  the  White  Guard  comes.  They  will  send  away  hundreds  of  thousands,  a 
whole  million,  maybe,  but  not  to  their  former  lodgings,  but  to  the  other  world. 
But  this  will  never  be.  Their  hands  are  too  short.  It  is  nearly  a  wjiole  year 
now  since  the  proletariat  holds  the  power  in  its  hands,  and  this  power  grows ; 
gets  more  and  more  strong.  The  women  of  the  working  class-  must  kno>>?'  that 
during  the  French  revolution  laundry  women  understood  that  they  had  the 
right  to  travel  in  royal  carriages.  They  took  them  and  travelled.  The  diffi- 
culties are  now  behind  us.  We  are  the  ruling  class.  We  will"  show  the  bour- 
geoisie that  the  revolution  has  been  carried  through  for  the  sake  of  realistic 
advantages,  and  everything  that  formerly  belonged  to  the  class  of  the  oppressors 
will  now  be  taken  by  the  people." 

He  further  refers  to  the  example  given  by  the  Red  Giiard.  They  showed 
that  they  knew  how  to  treat  the  belongings  of  the  tyrants  and  oppressors. 
"After  Nikolai  Romanoff  has  been  executed,"  he  continues,  "  about  600  suits  of 
linen  have  been  taken  by  the  Red  Guard.  And  they  proved  that  they  could 
wear  them  not  any  worse  than  their  former  owner." 

Maj.  HuJiES.  Doctor,  you  have  had  attention  called  in  that  letter 
to  people  dying  in  the  streets  of  Petrograd.  What,  of  your  own 
knowledge,  do  you  know  about  the  actual  conditions,  the  living  condi- 
tions and  the  terrorism  in  Russia,  and  the  means  that  are  used  by 
the  Government  to  maintain  itself? 

Mr.  HuNTixGTON.  Of  my  own  knowledge  I  know  the  conditions 
in  Moscow  during  the  last  few  months,  where  I  lived  in  the  consulate 
general,  and  I  not  only  had  my  own  observation,  but  was  at  the 
center,  where  all  the  representatives  of  the  consulates  placed  in  dif- 
ferent parts  of  the  country  sent  their  reports. 

I  have  been  on  two  visits  to  Petrograd,  one  in  June  and  another 
when  we  passed  out  in  August.  I  have  been  over  the  entire  trans- 
Siberian  line  from  Petrograd  to  Irkutsk,  east.  I  have  lived  in 
Irkutsk  for  two  months,  and  participated  in  the  life  of  the  town  as 
much  as  anyone  would  who  came  into  the  town.  I  have  dealt  with  and 
seen  people  in  the  town,  school-teachers,  merchants.;  dealt  with  the 
Soviets  in  business  matters,  on  cases  of  American  goods;  have  been 
at  the  railway  stations  and  have  seen  the  Austro-BLxingarian  armed 
guards,  who  were  armed  to  fight  also  for  the  social  revolution,  and 
had  been  made  citizens  of  this  soviet  republic ;  I  have  talked  to  rail- 
road men,  to  station  masters,  to  self-made  men,  to  farmers,  to  peas- 
ants; I  have  been  in  the 

Maj.  HujiES.  '\'\Tiat  have  you  seen  in  all  this  experience  with 
reference  to  terrorism  and  the  conduct  and  practical  application  of 
the  policies  of  the  Bolshevist  regime? 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  have  seen  the  complete  overturn  of  all  we 
know  in  our  present  life,  and  absolute  chaos  in  all  htiman  relations. 

Maj.  Httmes.  How  is  the  control  maintained?  Is  it  maintained 
because  the  people  are  with  the  Bolshevist  government,  or  is  it  main- 


tained  through  terrorizing  the  people,  or  in  what  mani.   ^^^|o  they 
maintain  themselves? 

Mr.  Huntington.  It  is  maintained  absolutely  by  terror.  They 
gained  that  power  by  a  sudden  coup  d'etat  in  Petrograd  and  Moscow, 
by  promises  to  a  people  who  had  been  duly  prepared  by  eight  months 
of  propaganda,  for  which  Germany  had  contributed  large  sums. 
They  were  able  to  produce  the  coup  d'etat  bj'^  the  use  of  soldiers  in 
the  capital,  and  by  promising  to  the  crowds  peace,  land,  and  bread. 
They  maintain  their  power  by  owning  the  machine  guns  and  the 
arms,  and  getting  control  of  those  which  they  did  not  have  in  the 
beginning;  by  the  use  of  terror;  by  the  use  of  taking  hostages;  by 
the  use  of  any  unsci-upulous  methods  which,  as  you  have  seen  by  what 
I  have  read,  they  do  not  denj^,  but  justify,  and  by  the  help  of  mer- 
cenaries like  the  Letts  from  the  Baltic  Provinces,  and  Chinese 
soldiers,  such  as  they  embrace  out  in  Siberia,  and  out  in  Siberia  in 
one  case  where  they  interested  Austro-Hungarian  soldiers,  as  in  the 
case  of  the  trainload  armed,  which  I  saw,  and  which  were  being  sent 
out  to  fight. 

Their  present  armj^  to-day  consists  of  a  corps  of  Lettish  merce- 
naries and  Chinese  mercenaries,  to  which  they  have  added,  by  i 
threats — threats  perS'onally  as  to  themselves  and  as  to  their  wives  and 
children — citizens  who  no  doubt  serve  only  because  of  fear  of  what 
will  be  done  by  the  Bolshevik  government  to  their  families,  and  also 
because  by  serving  they  secure  food  and  clothing. 

Their  present  armies  are  formed  in  this  way.  They  are  not  formed 
of  enthusiastic  people  fighting  for  a  great  cause,  but  they  are  formed 
of  desperate  people  who  hope  by  service  in  the  army  to  be  clothed 
and  fed. 

Maj.  Humes.  You  have  referred  to  this  government  as  a  social- 
istic state.  Are  we  to  understand  from  that  that  the  Government,  as 
now  constituted,  represents  the  socialist  movement  of  the  socialist 
elements  of  Russia,  or  does  it  simply  represent  one  party  or  one  ele- 
ment of  the  socialist  movement  in  Russia? 

Mr.  Huntington.  It  represents  only  one  group  of  the  socialists 
of  Russia ;  and  to  show  that,  I  need  only  say  that  in  the  constituent 
assembly  which  was  finally  held  in  Petrograd  and  sat — 'at  least  pre- 
pared one  day  and  sat  for  a  second  day — and  where  I  was  present, 
by  having  been  allowed  in  there  by  sailor  guards  who  were  posted  at 
the  street  corners,  in  that  assembly  they  had  a  large  majority  against 
them,  and  they  disbanded  the  assembly  because  of  that  fact,  and  the 
large  majority  of  that  whole  gathering  were  socialists,  socialists 
by  conviction,  chiefly  of  the  so-called  social  revolutionary  party,  the 
party  of  the  peasant  socialists.  I  think  that  that  constituent  _as- 
semblv,  which  so  far  as  I  know  is  the  last  really  democratic  meeting 
that  has  been  held  in  Russia,  is  a  sufficient  answer  to  that  question. 

I  can  also  cite,  however,  the  treatment  of  such  great  groups  of 
socialists — although  these  are  not  political  groups — as  the  coopera- 
tive societies  who  are  formed  chiefly  of  socialists.  These  societies 
find  themselves  in  strong  oppostion  to  the  Bolshevik  power,  but  are 
forced  to  o-o  on  with  it.  For  a  long  time  the  Bolshevik  power  feared 
to  touch  their  organization,  because  it  was  democratic,  and  reaches 
the  hearts  and  pocketbooks  of  the  people  pretty  closely ;  but  lately 
they  have  gained  courage  in  that  regard,  and  they  have  put  a  com- 
85723—19 5 


missarf?t^°Jie  organization  of  the  largest  cooperative  in  central  Rus- 
sia and  they  have  also  taken  over  the  bank  of  the  cooperative  socie- 
ties— the  stockholders  of  which  are  peasants — and  have  their  mem- 
bers among  the  directors  of  that  bank. 

Maj.  Humes.  Have  you  any  idea  what  portion  of  the  socialist 
movement  in  Russia  is  represented  in  the  present  government  'i 

Mr.  Huntington.  When  the  Bolshevik  movement  began,  because 
of  the  economic  disintegration,  because  of  the  anarchy  of  mind  of 
a  people  held  in  political  oppression,  and  with  no  education,  because 
of  the  sins  of  the  old  regime,  they  had  a  considerable  vogue,  without 
question,  in  Petrograd  and  Moscow,  and  extended  a  sort  of  power — 
not  perfect  power,  but  a  sort  of  power — even  out  into  Siberia.  I  have 
seen  that.  But  as  time  went  on  and  they  did  not  fulfill  their  prom- 
ises, they  did  not  get  peace  and  did  not  get  bread,  and  the  distribu- 
tion of  land  only  caused  trouble  and  friction  among  the  peasants.  I 
have  seen  late  advices  from  the  land,  not  from  the  state  owners,  that 
peasants  in  many  parts  of  the  country  are  now  wishing  to  pay  for 
the  land,  and  hesitating  to  plow  the  land  which  they  took,  because 
they  feel  they  would  like  to  pay  for  it,  because  they  have  lots  of 
paper  money  and  would  like  to  pay  for  it  and  clear  the  title. 

When  they  promised  peace,  land  and  bread,  and  did  not  get 
any  of  them,  they  began  to  lose  adherents;  and  they  lost,  first,  the 
peasants,  because  the  peasants  in  Russia,  who  form  85  per  cent  of 
that  great  population,  who  are  not  nationally  minded,  whose  education 
and  form  of  environment  have  been  very  local,  and  who  did  not 
take  a  lively  interest  as  a  mass  in  any  movement  whose  chief  motive 
was  to  get  land — when  those  peasants  had  got  the  land,  as  they 
thought,  they  were  out  of  the  game. 

They  were  further  driven  out  of  the  game  by  the  requisitions  of 
food  by  the  Bolsheviks.  When  our  train  was  lying  at  one  point  in 
eastern  Russia  in  February,  1918,  where  we  lay  for  several  days,  the 
Red  Guards  arrived  with  machine  guns  and  sent  telegrams  through 
the  telegraph  office  in  the  station,  and  I  was  able  to  read  these  tele- 
grams. Through  these  telegrams  the  leader  of  these  Red  Guards 
reported  that  he  had  sent  his  command  out  into  the  country  among 
the  peasants  and  that  he  had  been  defeated,  and  he  asked  in  one  of 
his  telegrams  for  reinforcements.  Further,  while  certain  of  our  party 
were  drinking  tea  in  the  house  of  a  prosperous  peasant,  the  house  was 
surrounded  by  Red  Guards  composed  of  the  riffraff  of  the  village.  It 
is  this  "  peasant  poor  "  that  Lenine  incited  to  civil  war  against  their 
better-off  brother  peasants. 

I  cite  that  merely  as  a  case  in  point,  showing  how  they  have  sent 
squads  into  the  country  demanding  food,  and  the  peasants  ask  them  to 
give  in  exchange  for  the  food  manufactured  articles  instead  of  money, 
of  which  they  have  plenty,  and  which  is  useless  to  them;  they  ask 
for  shoes  and  cloth  and  other  articles,  and  the  Bolsheviks  refuse  to 
give  these  articles  to  the  peasants,  and  when  the  peasants  refuse  to 
sell  them  food  they  take  it  by  force,  and  that  only  causes  the  peasants 
to  hide  what  they  have,  and  in  certain  cases,  where  they  have  arms, 
to  fight.  They  have  lost,  therefore,  the  confidence  of  the  peasants, 
and  the  peasants  form  85  per  cent  of  the  Russian  people.  Therefore, 
I  can  not  see  how  they  can  claim  to-day  politically  to  control  the 


Now,  as  to  the  workmen,  we  have  the  best  of  advice  now  that  they 
have  lost  most  of  them.  The  workmen  of  Eussia  are  about  7  per 
cent,  or  perhaps  it  is  8 — about  7  or  8  per  cent,  I  think — in  the  great 
cities,  chiefly.  These  men  have  neither  food  nor  peace.  They 
are  having  almost  continuous  warfare  ever  since  the  peace  with 
Germany,  and  they  are  not  satisfied,  either;  and  they  are  not  to 
be  reckoned  to-day  as  adherents  of  the  Bolshevik  regime,  although 
that  regime  claims  them  most  vociferously,  and  in  order  to  secure 
their  support  has  taken  from  the  factories  certain  of  the  elite  or 
pick  of  the  workmen  and  made  them  commisars.  That  has  not, 
however,  been  enough  under  the  conditions,  under  their  economic 
failure,  to  realize  the  paradise  which  they  promised,  and  hold  the 
workmen.  Therefore,  I  feel  that  if  the  peasants  are  85  per  cent  and 
the  workmen  are  7  per  cent,  that  makes  92  per  cent,  and  if  they 
can  not  be  said  to  have  those  two — not  to  speak  of  the  higher  classes, 
which  I  do  not  mention  in  this  connection  at  all— I  can  not  feel  that 
they  have  to-day  a  very  large  following  in  Russia. 

(At  1.10  o'clock  p.  m.  the  subcommittee  took  a  recess  until  2.30 
o'clock  p.  m.) 


.The  subcommittee  reconvened,  pursua,nt  to  .thfe^4;aking  of  the  recess, 
at  2.30  o'clock  p.  m.  *-  " 


Maj.  Humes.  Doctor,  this  morning  you  gave  us  some  idea  of  the 
comparative  strength  and  following  of  the  various  parties  in  Eussia, 
which  indicated  that  the  present  Government  represented  less  than 
10  per  cent  of  the  people.  Now,  if  that  is  true,  how  do  they  main- 
tain their  power  or  maintain  the  de  facto  government? 

Mr.  Huntington.  In  the  first  place,  they  have  the  machine  guns. 
They  have  got  the  arms. 

Maj.  Humes.  How  do  they  use  the  machine  guns?  Where  have 
they  got  them  and  how  do  they  use  them,  and  what  do  they  use 
them  for? 

Mr.  Huntington.  The  machine  gun  is  the  weapon,  par  excellence, 
for  use  in  towns,  on  the  roads,  and  for  use  in  the  country  villages 
if  there  is  a  peasant  uprising;  and  also  for  obtaining  grain;  and 
they  have  not  only  the  machine  guns,  but  the  transport.  It  was  due 
also  to  the  presence  of  German  officers  that  they  have  more  than  once 

They  also  have  the  press,  because  for  several  months  now  there 
has  been  no  liberty  for  the  press  in  Eussia.  They  do  not  permit  any 
of  the  so-called  bourgeois  papers,  which  were  formerly  published,  to 
come  out. 

Maj.  Humes.  Do  they  permit  any  socialist  papers  of  other  groups 
than  their  own  groups  to  publish  papers? 

Mr.  Huntington.  No;  there  are  none  except  the  official  organs 
of  the  so-called  Soviet  Government  published  at  this  time  in  bol- 
shevik Eussia.  Having  the  press,  having  the  arms,  and  then  having 
the  railway  lines,  although  the  railway  men  themselves,  particularly 


the  higher  classes,  the  locomotive  engineers,  the  conductors,  and  fire- 
men and  station  masters,  are  not  for  them,  they  are  able  to  control 
the  country  pretty  well.    They  have,  of  course,  the  telegraph. 

Maj.  Humes.  Do  hostages  figure  at  all  in  their  control? 

Mr.  Huntington.  The  hostage  system  which  they  use  is  the  same 
as  the  German  system.  They  take  hostages  for  the  actions  of  some 
one  whom  they  vvish  to  control.  The  father  of  a  young  girl  who  was 
my  secretary,  an  Englishman  who  had  lived  in  Russia  for  many 
years,  was  walking  one  night,  smoldng  a  cigar,  in  the  garden  of  the 
Church  of  the  Saviour.  He  was  arrested,  with  every  one  else  in  the 
garden,  and  taken  off.  They  found  out  about  it  by  chance;  other- 
wise thej^  would  not  have  known.  The  girls  went  to  the  Kremlin; 
where  they  found  out  that  he  had  been  taken,  and  asked  for  what 
he  had  been  arrested,  and  were  jeered  at,  and  told  that  he  had 
already  been  executed.  They  proceeded  and  saw  the  second  highest 
man,  and  he  told  them  that  there  was  not  anything  to  be  done  about 
it;  that  he  did  not  know  anything  about  their  father,  and  his  case 
would  come  up  when  the  time  came.  The  other  men  in  the  office 
told  them  that  their  father  had  been  killed. 

They  were  then  told  that  one  of  the  Red  Cross  representatives  was 
the  only  one  that  would  be  allowed  to  find  out  anything  about  him, 
and  see  him,  so  that  one  of  the  Red  Cross  representatives  went,  at 
my  request,  to  find  out  about  this  unfortunate  man,  against  whom 
there  is  no  accusation  whatever,  or  any  charge  brought,  and  he 
spoke  to  the  assistant  to  Peters,  who  received  him  kindly  and  said. 
"  Yes;  I  will  do  the  best  I  can,  and  I  will  make  a  note  of  it,  but  I 
do  not  know  just  what  I  can  do.  I  have  to  put  so  many  people  to 
death  every  day  that  I  am  tired  at  night."  That  is  one  of  the  meth- 
ods which  is  used. 

Another  method  is  the  brandishing  of  force  before  one.  In 
Irkutsk,  in  Siberia,  where  T  lived,  there  was  daily  machine-gun 
practice,  so  called,  in  a  little  vard  on  one  of  the  main  streets,  so 
that  as  the  passers-by  passed  down  the  street  they  might  hear  the 
noise  and  rattle  of  the  machine  guns;  which  for  people  who  had 
just  been  through  the  social  revolution  as  they  had,  was,  of  course, 
a  little  bit  annoying,  and  tended  to  keep  people  on  edge.  The 
Peter  and  Paul  Prison  in  Petrograd  was  filled  with  hostages  of 
this  kind.  The  system  was  quite  universal.  That  was  another  part 
of  the  terror.  They  never  have  denied  the  terror.  You  heard  this 
morning  the  official  proclamation  read,  in  which  they  are  instructed 
to  do  this  very  thing,  and  they  do  not  deny  these  methods.  They 
justify  them. 

Maj.  Humes.  "^'^Tiat  is  the  attitude  of  the  Government,  as  it  is  con- 
stituted, toward  the  church  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  The  attitude  in  practice  is  very  hostile.  In 
theory  it  is  neutral.  In  theory,  the  church  is  a  cult,  recognized  as  a 
cult  of  people  who  have  the  right  of  congregation  like  any  sect  or 
cult,  and  this  sect  or  cult  occupies  a  church  building  nationalized  by 
the  Government — because  of  course  the  church  properties  are  na- 
tionalized, as  is  other  property — and  they  can  meet  in  this  church,  and 
I  believe,  are  supposed  to  pay  rent.  I  do  not  know  whether  the  rent 
has  been  paid  or  not.  That  is  the  theoretical  status.  Theoreticallv,  I 
think,  any  religion,  any  cult,  is  tolerated.    In  practice  the  attitude  is 


one  of  extreme  hostility,  if  only  for  the  reason  that  the  leaders  of  the 
movement  are,  of  course,  very  much  opposed  to  orthodox  Chris- 

Senator  Wolcott.  Are  they  in  favor  of  any  particular  religion? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Not  the  leaders  of  this  movement  themselves; 
no,  sir.  The  leaders  of  the  movement,  I  should  say,  are  about  two- 
thirds  Russian  Jews  and  perhaps  one-sixth  or  more  of  some  of  the 
othemationalities,  like  the  Letts  or  the  Armenians.  The  assistant  in 
the  foreign  office  was  an  Armenian.  Then  there  are  the  Georgians; 
that  is,  the  so-called  Gruzinians  of  the  Caucasus,  and  the  remaining 
number  Slavs.  The  superiority  of  the  Jews  is  due  to  their  intel- 
lectual superiority,  because  the  average  Jew  is  so  much  better  edu- 
cated than  the  average  Russian;  and  also,  I  think,  to  the  fact  that 
the  Hebrew  people  have  suffered  so  in  the  past  in  Russia  that  it  has 
inevitably  resulted  in  their  cherishing  a  grudge  which  has  been 
worked  out  by  the  movement. 

It  is  only  fair,  however,  to  say  that  the  best  of  the  Hebrew  people 
in  Russia,  among  whom  are  some  of  the  finest  in  the  world,  and 
the  greatest  strugglers  for  human  liberty  in  the  world,  have  dis- 
approved of  this  thing  and  have  always  disapproved  it,  and  fear 
its  consequences  for  their  own  people. 

Senator  Overman.  What  was  the  established  religion  there? 

Mr.  Huntington.  The  so-called  Eastern  Orthodox  Church,  which 
came  from  the  church  of  Constantinople  in  the  ninth  century.  Mis- 
sionaries were  sent  out  from  Constantinople  who  converted  Russia, 
and  it  has  gone  on  ever  since. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Commonly  called  the  Greek  Church? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Commonly  called  the  Greek  Church,  which 
separated  from  the  Roman  Church  at  the  time  of  the  schism,  and 
it  has  gone  on  its  own  way  ever  since. 

Maj.  Humes.  I  want  to  read  this  from  paragraph  13,  page  32,  of 
the  Soviet  constitution : 

For  the  purpose  of  securing  for  the  toilers  real  freedom  of  conscience,  the 
church  is  separated  from  the  state,  and  the  school  from  the  church,  and  the 
freedom  of  religious  and  antlreligious  propaganda  is  secured  for  all  citizens. 

What  became  of  the  church  property  in  Russia  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Theoretically,  the  status  of  the  property  is  that 
of  nationalization.  Practically,  where  it  was  needed  as  they  thought 
for  any  purpose  that  they  might  have,  it  was  taken  over,  which  in 
the  eyes  of  the  pious  was,  of  course,  desecration. 

In  Irkutsk  the  theological  seminary  was  taken  over,  and  they 
could  not  rest  with  taking  the  ordinarj'  rooms,  but  they  desecrated 
the  chapel. 

In  the  Kremlin  there  was  an  old  monastery  very  much  revered 
amono-  Russians,  an  ancient  citadel,  and  from  that  the  monks  were 

Priests  have  often  been  arrested.    Sometimes  they  have  been  put 

to  death. 

The  persecution  is  constant.  It  is,  however,  I  think,  having  a 
salutary  effect  on  the  church,  which  from  being  a  spoiled  creature 
of  the  state  in  former  times  is  now,  under  suffering,  reforming  and 
being  cleansed;  but  the  sufferings  of  the  people  and  the  church- 
o'oers  are  very  great.    In  the  end  the  church  will  be  strengthened. 


Maj.  Htjmes.  What  was  done  with  the  personal  pi'operty  of  the 
church,  gold  and  silver  ornaments,  or  anything  of  value,  of  a  per- 
sonal nature  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  You  probably  i*efer  to  the  altar,  the  sanctuary 
ornaments,  I  imagine.  There  there  were  cases  of  looting,  but  how 
general  I  do  not  know.  I  know  of  specific  cases  which  have  come  up 
before  us,  but  I  do  not  know  how  general  that  looting  has  been. 

Maj.  HuJiES.  There  has  been,  you  say,  in  particular  instances  that 
you  know  of? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes,  sir. 

Maj.  Humes.  You  stated  this  morning  that  you  had  'attended 
meetings  of  the  Soviets  in  the  constituent  assembly.  How  was  the 
constituent  assembly  conducted?  Was  it  a  representative  body  that 
controlled  its  own  deliberations  or  was  it  controlled  by  some  one  else  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  The  constituent  assembly  was  a  bone  of  conten- 
tion in  Russia  for  a  long  time.  Sometimes  the  Bolsheviks  claimed  to 
want  it  very  much,  and  other  times  they  did  not.  The  constituent 
assembly,  of  course,  as  you  all  know,  is  supposed  to  be  representative 
of  the  entire  nation,  and  was  to  decide  the  constitution  of  the  future 
Eussia.  It  was  elected  in  a  time  of  stress.  It  was  elected  even  at  a 
time  when  there  was  great  Bolshevik  influence.  But  in  spite  of  that 
it  turned  a  large  majority  against  the  Bolsheviks.  When  it  was 
finally  allowed  to  meet,  about  which  there  was  considerable  discus- 
sion, it  had  the  majority  against  the  Bolsheviks,  and  it  lasted  two 
days.  On  the  second  day  the  sailors  appeared  in  the  gallery  with 
machine  guns  and  told  the  deputies  to  go  home,  and  they  went  home. 
I  speak  from  knowledge,  having  been  in  the  assembly. 

Maj.  Humes.  The  sailors  side  with  the  Bolsheviks,  do  they? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes,  sir;  the  sailors  were  Bolsheviks,  and  they 
were  very  often  used  by  the  Bolsheviks  because  they  were  better 
educated  than  the  ordinary  soldiers,  and  they  were  very  fierce  at  that 
time.  They  were  amongst  some  of  the  hardest  of  such  people  that  I 
have  ever  known. 

Senator  Overman.  How  are  the  Cossacks?  How  are  their  feel- 

Mr.  Huntington.  The  Cossacks  were  the  former  frontiersmen  of 
Eussia,  and  they  had  special  charters  under  old  Eussia,  and  lands 
would  be  granted  to  them,  and  that  has  affected  somewhat  their  atti- 
tude toward  Bolshevism,  because  they  did  not  want  to  have  their 
lands  taken  away  from  them.  The  Bolsheviks  have  sometimes  made 
concessions  or  made  it  appear  that  they  did  not  want  to  take  the  Cos- 
sacks' lands ;  that  is,  they  were  making  a  special  case  of  them.  They 
did  at  the  time  win  some  of  the  Cossacks,  but  the  main  body  of  them, 
so  far  as  we  could  see,  they  have  never  won.  There  are  people  in 
Cossack  Eussia,  however,  who  have  been  in  the  Bolshevik  movement. 

The  sailors  have  been  complained  of  so  much  that  it  may  not  be 
amiss  to  say,  in  speaking  of  their  ferocity,  which  is  not  sentimental 
or  joking  but  a  fact,  that  I  stood  one  day  on  the  quay,  the  bank 
of  the  river  Neva,  in  the  building  occupied  by  the  National  City 
Bank,  and  looked  out  of  the  office  and  had  pointed  out  to  me  by  the 
manager  of  the  bank  a  spot  on  the  street  in  front,  which  was  red — 
a  dried-up  pool — and  he  told  me  that  it  was  blood,  and  that  he  and 
his  assistant  had  stood  in  the  window  of  the  bank  that  morning  and 


a  squad  of  sailors  had  marched  along  the  street,  which  ifuns  along 
the  river  front,  and  walking  along  on  the  walk  had  been,'  a  man  in 
an  officer's  coat,  who  was  walking  along  by  himself,  empty  handed, 
and  that  before  they  came  opposite  to  this  man  one  of  them  raised 
his  musket  and  shot  the  officer  on  the  spot,  and  he  was  left  there, 
and  the  march  of  the  men  was  not  even  stopped  to  see  whether  the 
job  had  been  done  or  not.     Afterwards  he  was  picked  up. 

Senator  Wolcott.  He  was  an  officer  in  the  Navy  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  No,  sir;  an  army  officer. 

Senator  Wolcott.  An  army  officer? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Of  what  grade  I  do  not  know.  They  were  not 
wearing  epaulettes  then,  and  you  could  not  tell  from  the  coat;  only 
from  the  cap  you  could  tell  that  he  was  an  officer. 

Maj.  Humes.  You  have  cited  one  instance  of  the  father  of  a  clerk 
of  yours  who  was  arrested  and  executed.  Are  you  familiar  with  any 
other  instances  of  similar  conduct  on  the  part  of  the  government 
authorities  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  am  sorry  if  I  have  given  the  impression  that 
I  said  he  was  executed.  I  do  not  know  whether  he  has  yet  been 
executed  or  not.  He  was  in  prison  up  to  the  latest  advices  which  we 
had,  up  to  a  month  or  so  ago. 

Senator  Wolcott.  I  understood  you  to  say  that  this  man  told  the 
daughters  that  he  had  been  killed. 

Mr.  Huntington.  They  told  them  that,  presumably  to  terrorize 
and  scare  those  girls. 

Senator  Wolcott.  And  the  daughters  learned  afterwards  that  he 
had  not  been  killed? 

Mr.  Huntington.  So  far  as  we  could  find  out.  No  one  ever  got 
inside  to  see.  They  admitted  no  one.  In  this  case  they  did  not  even 
admit  the  Ked  Cross  to  see  this  man,  although  they  said  they  would. 
They  did  admit  the  Ked  Cross  to  some  prisons.  People  were  con- 
fined in  there  whom  nobody  knew  about,  who  people  thought  had  fled 
to  other  parts  of  the  country,  in  Moscow,  as  was  the  case  with  our 
own  associate  Mr.  Simmons,  who  was  in  prison  for  8  or  10  days, 
although  he  wrote  letters  and  sent  telegrams,  which  went  to  the  com- 
mission, who  refused  to  forward  those  letters  of  a  supposedly  friendly 

Maj.  Humes.  What  tribunal  imposes  the  death  penalty  and  causes 
the  execution?  * 

Mr.  Huntington.  The  so-called  extraordinary  committee  for 
combatting  the  counter-revolution.  That  is  headed  in  Moscow  by 
a  man  who  has  become  famous  as  Peters,  a  Lett  from  the  Baltic 
Provinces,  who  speaks  English  and  is  an  educated  man,  and  is  one 
of  the  most  cruel  and  fanatic  men  connected  with  the  entire  move- 

Maj.  Humes.  What  does  this  committee  consist  of  ?  Does  it  consist 
of  one  man  or  more  than  one  man  ?    How  is  it  organized  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  can  not  tell  what  the  system  is  of  selecting 
the  people  who  sit  on  it. 

Maj.  "Humes.  Do  they  pretend  to  try  persons  who  are  accused,  or 
is  it  a  summary  proceeding? 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  think  there  is  a  pretense  of  trial,  but  nobody 
knows  anything  about  it,  and  they  do  not  have  to  show  any  record 
or  any  reason  to  the  -outside  world. 


Maj.  Humes.  The  trials  are  not  public,  then,  if  there  are  trials? 

Mr.  Hui^TTNGTON.  I  do  not  know  of  any  o'f  those  trials  being  pub- 
lic. Ther^  have  been  trials  before  a  revolutionary  tribunal  which 
have  been  public,  but  that  was  in  an  earlier  day,  such  as  the  trial  of 
the  woman  who  was  the  minister  of  public  welfare  under  the  Keren- 
sky  government.  But  since  the  establishment  of  the  extraordinary 
commission,  I  do  not  Imow  of  any  such  trial.  There  are  replicas  of 
this  extraordinarj'  commission  in  other  places.  There  is  one  in  Petro- 
grad.  They  are  made  up,  usually,  from  amongst  the  most  fanatical 
and  fiercest  of,  the  local  terrorists. 

Maj.  Humes.  Do  you  know  how  many  serve  on  this  commission? 

Mr.  Huntington.  No,  sir ;  I  can  not  tell  you. 

Maj.  Humes.  I  think  this  morning  you  were  just  getting  ready  to 
take  up  the  economic  situation  in  Russia..  Will  you  go  ahead  and 
state  to  the  committee  the  economic  conditions  there  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  The  situation  has  two  aspects,  as  it  seems  to  me. 
It  has  the  moral  aspect  and  the  economic  aspect.  I  mean  moral  in 
the  broad  sense,  of  all  morality;  not  sex  morality,  of  course,  which 
is  the  frequent  narrow  use  of  the  word  here. 

The  moral  aspect  has  rather  been  touched  upon  by  the  description 
of  the  terror — of  the  actual  cases,  many  of  which  can  be  cited.  I  never 
have  personally  had  any  great  interest  in  telling  thrilling  stories  to 
make  people's  nerves  tingle.  There  are  .plenty  of  stories,  and  you 
may  hear  others,  and  I  think  the  case  is  sufficiently  put  by  the  state- 
ment of  the  Bolshevik  Government,  in  which  they  do  not  deny  the 
use  of  terror,  but  justify  it.    The  moral  side  is  one  side. 

The  other  side  is  the  economic  side.  In  other  words,  has  the  move- 
ment succeeded  in  bringing  about  any  kind  of  an  economic  prosper- 
ity ?  I  do  not  mean  a  paradise,  or  anything  like  it.  To  that  I  can  only 
answer  most  decidedly  no ;  that  there  is  a  complete  chaos  in  Russia ; 
that  there  is  as  near  to  anarchy  as  there  could  be  and  anything  go  on 
at  all ;  that  the  center  of  the  whole  thing  is  really  the  railroad  system, 
which  is  conducted  out  of  previous  habits  of  good  order,  and  because 
there  is  the  need  of  living  by  the  railroad  men  themselves,  who,  I 
might  say,  deserve  great  credit  for  this,  in  my  opinion.  That  serves 
to  connect  the  various  parts  and  keeps,  to  a  certain  degree,  things 
going.  The  railroad  transportation  is  slowly  declining,  day  by  day. 
When  we  passed  out  through  Siberia  and  passed  back  again  the  side- 
tracks at  the  stations  were  filled  with  locomo'tives,  some  of  them 
American,  all  rusty,  with  parts  missing,  with  perhaps  a  connecting 
rod  off,  or  a  throttle  taken  off,  or  a  cab  boarded  up,  every  one  of  them 
lacking  this  or  that  or  the  other  part.  Engines  had  broken  down,  and 
they  had  taken  this  or  that  or  the  other  part  off  of  one  of  these  en- 
gines to  make  repairs.  The  rolling  stock  wears  out  day  by  day,  and 
there  is  no  repair  shop,  and  the  repairs  can  not  be  executed  for  lack 
of  material  and  because  the  labor  conditions  are  so  unfortunate. 

The  production  in  any  factories  that  have  material  has  dropped  off^ 
very  greatly,  in  enormous  percentages,  anywhere  from  500  to  1,000 
per  cent.  There  is  lack  of  discipline  in  the  factories  and  there  is  lack 
of  food. 

Senator  Wolcott.  What  do  you  mean  by  1,000  per  cent? 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  mean  10  times,  sir;  10  times  100  per  cent. 
There  is  lack  of  food. 


Senator  Wolcott.  Just  what  do  you  mean? 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  mean  that  a  factory,  for  instance,  that  might 
make  formerly  10  locomotives  a  month  now  makes  1;  such  as  the 
Kolomensky  works.  The  cotton  factories  are  closed  down.  There 
was  next  to  no  cotton  raised  in  Turkestan  this  last  year  on  account  of 
the  disturbances. 

Senator  Overman.  Heretofore  they  have  been  spinning  all  their 
own  yarn  and  not  importing  it.  The  cotton  they  use  comes  from 
where  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Oh,  about  one-half  of  it  from  outside,  from 
Egypt  and  from  us — it  did  come — and  about  one-half  from  them- 
selves, as  I  remember  it.  They  produced  a  great  part,  the  principal 
part,  of  their  own  needs  in  cotton  goods,  and  they  have  some  very, 
very  large  factories  for  this  purpose,  founded  by  Englishmen.  A 
German  began  the  movement,  but  brought  over  English  foremen  and 
superintendents,  and  their  successors  remain  there  still,  to  this  day — ■ 
or  did. 

There  is  in  the  factories  not  only  the  lack  of  discipline  and  chaos 
in  the  administration,  except  where  there  has  been  effected  a  sort  of 
agreement  between  the  men  and  the  foreman-proprietor,  who  gives 
his  brains  to  the  running  of  the  factory,  which  has  sometimes  oc- 
curred, but  there  is  hunger.  A  factory  inspector  of  the  Young 
Women's  Christian  Association,  who  visited  practically  every  fac- 
tory in  Moscow,  and  whose  report  I  have  read,  says  that  in  many 
cases  there  was  lack  of  work  because  there  was  lack  of  food,  in  addi- 
tion to  the  other  causes. 

There  is  no  banking,  in  the  accepted  sense.  It  is  impossible  to 
transfer  money  from  one  town  to  another  to^^n.  If  there  is  any  pay- 
ment to  be  made,  it  is  paid  in  cash.  If  you  want  to  make  a  payment, 
you  send  a  man,  preferably,  with  a  suitcase  with  the  money  in  it.  The 
banks,  formerly  private  banks,  are  now  called  departments  1,  2,  3, 
and  4.  of  the  People's  Bank  of  the  Federated  Socialist  Republic  of 
the  Soviet.  So  that  you  have  perhaps  the  Siberian  bank  of  Petrograd 
being  called  department  No.  1,  and  the  international  bank,  depart- 
ment No.  2,  etc.  They  carry  on  no  banking  business,  ordinarily  so- 
called,  except  the  passing  out  of  paper  money  which  is  paid  out  to 
factory  organizations,  those  who  are  still  running  at  all,  for  the  pay- 
ment of  workmen. 

Senator  Overman.  Did  they  abolish  liquor  while  you  were  there — 

vodka  ? 

Mr.  HuN'i-iNGTON.  That  was  done  before  I  arrived. 

Senator  Overbian.  Did  they  really  abolish  it? 

Mr.  Huntington.  It  vvas  very  efficacious,  and  for  the  masses  there 

was  no  liquor  when  I  arrived  in  Russia.    Tliei'e  was  liquor  for  people 

who  could  get  it  by  corrupt  methods  whicli  have  always  prevailed  in 

Russia,  ancl  have  never  prevailed  there  to  the  extent  to  which  they 

prevail  to-day.    When  we  left  Russia,  passing  out,  although  we  had 

the  vise  of  the  authorities  of  Moscow,  as  soon  as  we  got  to  Petrograd 

we  were  held  by  a  commissar,  who  was  unfortunately  killed  while  we 

were  there,  and  he  finally  let  us  go.    He  said  he  would  not  recognize 

the  authority  of  the  men  of  the  foreign  office  in  Moscow.    I  mention 

this  at  this' point  to  show  you  that  whereas  they  have  a  sort  of 

authority,  the  authority  of  their  so-called  government  is  not  very 


firm,  and  when  it  comes  to  issuing  a  constructive  or  definite  restrain- 
ing order  they  can  not  do  it.  An  order  to  loot  or  to  take  they  can  get 
obeyed,  but  many  times  they  can  not  get  obeyed  the  other  orders 
they  issue. 

We  were  held  up,  although  we  had  our  passports  in  order.  When 
we  got  to  the  border  we  had  to  pay  tribute  to  get  out  of  the  country, 
and  did  pay  tribute  to  the  Red  Guard,  who  were  at  the  border  and 
who  hustled  the  baggage,  and  also  to  the  official  at  the  border  who 
conducted  it. 

Senator  Overmax.  Is  the  Eussian  naturally  a  cruel  man  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Xo,  sir;  I  should  say  not.  He  is  naturally  a 
kind  man,  a  very  easy-going  man. 

Senator  Overman.  Are  they  hospitable  people? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Very,  under  normal  circumstances. 

Senator  Overman.  Under  present  conditions,  under  this  Bolshevik 
movement,  the  very  contrary  is  the  case  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  A  peasant,  for  instance,  who  has  been  taught 
that  his  landlord  is  his  enemy — although  that  may  not  have  been  the 
case,  because  many  landowners  were  kind  to  the  peasants — a  work- 
man who  has  been  taught  the  creed  of  Lenine  and  Trotsky,  which  is 
the  class  warfare;  and  which  says  distinctly  that  your  employer  is 
your  natural  enemy,  naturally,  when  he  has  been  so  taught,  and  he  is 
hungry,  will  strike  the  employer,  and  he  may  regret  it  a  week  after- 
wards. On  the  walls  of  the  stairway  in  the  Metropole  Hotel  in 
Moscow  when  I  went  in  there  the  last  time  in  August  with  two  others, 
in  perfectly  good  English,  undoubtedly  written  by  Mr.  Tchitcherin, 
there  was  a  copy  of  a  poster  which  they  were  planning  to  launch  up 
on  the  Murman  coast,  for  the  Bri^is^i  and  American  soldiers.  This 
piece  was  well  written,  and  ^  ery  logical,  and  the  only  trouble  was 
with  the  first  statement.  I  can  not  quote  it  exactly,  but  it  started  in 
this  way :"  Comrades,  workmen  of  Great  Britain  and  America,  wliy 
do  you  come  to  our  shores  of  this  workmen's  republic?  You  liavc 
nothing  in  common  with  your  employer.  He  is  your  enemy.  Turn 
around  and  go  home  and  fight  him,  and  you  will  achieve  hajppiness." 
That  is  the  creed,  and  when  it  is  taught  to  simple  people  who  are 
hungry,  it  produces  that  effect.  The  people  are,  apart  from  that, 
very  kind,  and  easily  led,  easily  to  be  had  for  any  idea. 

Senator  Overman.  What  proportion  of  the  people  are  educated? 

Mr.  Huntington.  The  estimates  vary  about  that.  The  best  esti- 
mate I  have  ever  seen  for  the  army  which  I  thought  was  trustworthy 
was  50  per  cent  for  the  army.  I  have  seen  others  higher,  but  I  caia 
not,  from  personal  experience  and  contact  with  these  men,  believe 
them.  If  we  accepted  50  per  cent  for  the  army,  then  you  would  have 
to  figure  that  the  army  is  only  a  portion  of  the  population  and  does 
not  include  the  women,  and  the  women  have  had  much  less  oppor- 
tunity than  the  men,  and  our  percentage  of  literacy  in  the  country 
would  seem  to  me,  even  with  a  very  broad  definition,  certainly  to  be 
low;  would  certainly  not  be  much  more  than  a  quarter,  on  a  very 
broad  definition  of  literacy — I  mean,  not  asking  that  a  man  know  too 

much,  but  that  he  be  able 

Senator  Overman.  Do  women  take  part  in  these  mobs,  these  lynch- 
ings  and  murders  ? 


Mr.  Huntington.  In  mobs  there  have  been  women  present.  In 
many  murders,  no,  sir.  I  have  seen  the  victims  of  murders  after 
they  were  killed,  but  I  have' not  been  present.  As,  for  instance,  one 
morning  in  the  embassy  news  was  brought  of  the  killing  of  the  liberal 
minister  of  finance  in  the  Kerensky  government,  Mr.  Shingaryov, 
who  had  been  a  little  doctor  in  south  Russia  and  had  come  up  to  the 
Duma  had  learned  state  finances  and  had  been  one  of  those  who 
fought  officials  of  the  old  regime  in  putting  their  schemes  through  of 
getting  money  for  the  Czar's  favorites.  This  man  was  arrested  and 
was  lying  in  the  prison  of  Peter  and  Paul  with  another  of  the  Keren- 
sky  ministers,  Kokoshkin,  who  was  ill,  and  they  allowed  him  and 
another  man  to  go  to  the  hospital  of  the  Liteiny  Prospect.  Into 
that  hospital  one  night  at  11  o'clock  armed  men  got  by  the  guards  and 
got  up  to  the  room  of  these  men  and  shot  them  in  their  beds  as  they 
lay  there. 

That  story  came  to  the  embassy  on  Sunday  morning  and  was  jiot 
believed,  and  so  I  went,  at  the  special  request  of  the  ambassador,  to 
the  hospital  on  the  Liteiny  and  personally  passed  through  the  crowd 
and  into  the  morgue  and  passed  along  by  the  marble  slabs  in  the 
morgue  and  stopped  before  the  slab  on  which  lay  the  body  of  Mr. 
Shingaryov,  and  next  to  him  this  other  man,  and,  knowing  him  per- 
sonally, I  readily  identified  his  body  and  went  back  and  reported. 
Such  things  I  have  no  desire,  as  I  say,  to  tell.  I  have  no  desire  to 
tell  thrilling  stories,  but  of  such  incidents  I  can  call  to  mind  a  good 

Maj.  Humes.  Are  you  familiar  with  any  atrocities  of  the  kind  com- 
mitted against  women?  Did  you  come  in  contact  with  anything  of 
that  kind? 

Mr.  Huntington.  No.  Personally,  the  only  atrocities  that  I  know 
of,  the  only  mistreatment  that  I  know  of  on  the  violent  scale,  I  know 
from  the  town  of  Irkutsk,  from  the  actions  of  the  guards  on  entering 
certain  houses  there  to  loot,  and  who  pretty  roughly  handled  the 
women,  but  did  not  kill  them.  I  believe  there  are  undoubtedly  such 
cases,  but  I,  personally,  have  not  seen  them. 

Maj.  Humes.  Proceed  with  the  economic  matters. 

Mr.  Huntington.  The  keynote  is  entire  absence  of  production. 
That  is  why  I  am  mystified,  sometimes,  when  I  read  accounts  that 
production  is  going  on  well.  There  must  be  entire  lack  of  produc- 
tion, because  there  is  not  only  lack  of  discipline  but  lack  of  material. 
The  government  is  founded  on  demagogy,  and  therefore  has  not  been 
able  to  work  constructively.  We  have  tried  to  work  with  them  con- 
structively on  a  number  of  occasions.  We  tried,  for  instance,  to  feed 
the  city  of  Moscow  from  the  Volga,  and  had  practically  a  plan  for 
doing  that  under  the  International  Red  Cross  when  Trotsky  blocked 
that,  because,  for  some  reasons  of  his  own,  he  feared  it  would  react 
unfavorably  upon  his  regime.  Besides  the  lack  of  real  administra- 
tive ability  amongst  these  men,  there  is  also  the  constant  additional 
difficulty  that  they  are  not  interested  in  building,  but  they  are  inter- 
ested primarily  in  propagating. 

Propagation  of  their  doctrines  is  the  prime  idea.  The  prime  idea 
is  to  get  these  doctrines  propagated,  to  get  the  social  revolution,  as 
they  see  it,  throughout  the  world,  and  then  do  your  constructing.  Such 
constructing  as  they  have  conducted  to-day  at  home  has  been  only 


such  as  was  forced  on  them  or  such  as  they  wanted  to  do  for  the 
effect  on  the  outside  world.  Now  they  are  constantly  trying  to  evince 
that  their  construction  is  a  success.  They  are  not,  from  a  normal 
man's  standpoint,  capable  of  constructive  work.  What  constructive 
work  is  done,  is  done  by  neutral  people  whom  they  employ  on  occa- 
sion ;  as,  for  instance,  an  engineer  friend  of  mine  in  the  ministry 
of  railways,  v^'hom  they  appointed  director  of  transportation.  He 
found  it  impossible  to  keep  on  with  them,  because  when  he  issued 
any  orders  that  were  not  satisfactory  to  the  workmen  they  were  not 
obeyed.  And  when  he  went  to  the  soviet,  which  guaranteed  him  aid 
and  protection — even  going  so  far  as  to  say  they  would  shoot  people 
who  did  not  obey,  because  they  were  bound  to  put  the  country  in 
shape  and  Mr.  Lenine  said  that  production  was  what  was  needed — 
when  he  went  to  them  they  were  afraid  of  the  people  in  his  offices, 
and  these  people  appealed  to  demagogy  and  said  that  they  would 
not  stand  to  have  this  or  that  measure  put  through,  and  the  so\'iets, 
of  course,  gave  in.  Having  founded  their  power  on  demagogy,  they 
could  not  do  otherwise.  They  would  gladly  have  made  use  of  us 
and  of  other  foreigners. 

The  foreigner,  as  a  rule,  has  had  a  better  chance  than  a  Russian. 
Among  the  foreigners  theie  were  clever  men  and  trained.  Some  of 
them  in  Russia  are  some  of  the  cleverest  men  in  the  world.  The 
Bolsheviks  made  offers  of  ''  cooperation  "  to  the  American  Embassy, 
and  wanted  men  for  constructive  work.  This  was  in  December,  a 
month  after  thej-  had  been  in  power,  and  they  would  promise  any- 
thing. They  wanted  to  get  experts  from  America.  They  knew 
that  the  people  were  very  badly  disciplined,  and  they  thought  if  we 
would  send  special  men  to  help  them  build  up  their  new  socialistic 
state,  they  would  punish  workmen  or  peasants  who  would  not  obey 
them.  They  were  bound  to  have  discipline  and  were  bound  to  have 
the  work  done.  Unfortunately,  like  all  the  rest  of  it,  it  does  not  get 
beyond  words  and  the  paper  that  it  is  printed  on. 

Senator  Wolcott.  According  to  their  program,  if  people  do  not 
do  like  they  want,  shoot  them;  if  they  will  not  work,  shoot  them; 
if  they  will  not  work  to  suit  them,  shoot  them  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes;  but  that  is  all,  of  course,  because  a  great 
good  is  coming  out  of  all  this ;  and  the  fact  that  a  few  hundred  people 
are  killed,  in  their  minds  does  not  mean  anything. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Yes;  of  course,  'the  worst  tyrants  that  ever 
lived  always  appealed  to  the  ultimate  good  in  their  behalf. 
Maj.  Humes.  What  about  the  production  of  raw  materials? 
Mr.  Huntington.  As  to  the  basic  raw  materials  like  coal,  for  in- 
stance, European  Russia  is  not  well  provided  with  coal,  to  begin 
with.  Coal  has  been  in  the  Ukraine,  and  they  have  juggled  with  the 
transportation  and  juggled  the  situation  with  the  Ukraine  so  that 
there  is  none  coming  from  there. 

The  petroleum  came  from  the  Caucasus,  but  they  brought  about 
a  political  situation  and  an  industrial  situation  in  Baku  by  which  no 
more  petroleum  is  produced,  and  petroleum  no  longer  comes  up  the 

As  for  cotton,  on  account  of  the  conditions  in  Turkestan,  where  the 
social  war  has  been  going  on,  and  especially  on  account  of  the  local 
religions  and  tribes  there,  cotton  production  has  been  very  low,  so 
that  they  have  not  cotton. 


Food  there  is  considerable  of,  in  various  points.  There  was  food 
in  the  south  of  Russia.  There  is  food  in  the  north  of  Caucasus. 
There  is  food  in  Siberia.  But  the  political  situation  which  they  have 
brought  about  and  the  breakdown  of  transportation  have  made  it 
impossible  to  tap  that  food ;  and  more  than  that,  there  is  food  in  the 
hands  of  peasants,  and  would  be  more — that  is  the  chief  difficulty — 
but  their  treatment  of  the  peasants  has  made  it  impossible  for  them 
to  get  any  food  into  the  towns.  The  peasants  will  not  give  up  the 
food,  in  the  first  place,  because  no  goods  are  exchanged,  nothing  but 
money,  and  money  is  valueless.  In  the  second  place,  they  will  not 
give  it  up  at  the  fixed  prices,  which  bear  no  relation  to  the  other 
things  which  they  have  to  buy. 

In  Siberia,  where  there  was  much  food,  but  under  the  Bolshevik 
regime  I  have  been  in  towns  where  it  was  very  difficult  to  obtain,  and 
yet  close  outside  of  those  towns  there  was  plenty  of  food,  but  the 
peasants  did  not  bring  it  in.  We  had  meat  brought  to  our  house  in 
Irkutsk  by  a  peasant  girl  who  had  raised  the  calf  and  killed  it  and 
brought  it  in  to  sell.  She  was  stopped  by  a  Eed  Guard,  who  took  the 
calf  away  from  her.  She  said  that  she  was  a  peasant  girl,  and  she 
said,  "  I  am  going  to  take  this  calf  in  and  sell  this  meat."  She  said, 
"  I  am  a  poor  girl,  and  I  am  going  to  sell  this  meat."  The  Red  Guard 
said,  "  You  will  have  to  sell  it  to  me  and  you  will  have  to  sell  it  at  the 
normal,  set  price  for  meat."  She  refused  to  do  this,  and  the  result 
was  a  battle  of  words  between  her  brother,  who  happened  to  be  fairly 
good  sized,  and  herself,  and  this  man ;  so  that  finally  the  calf,  in  that 
instance,  was  given  up,  and  we  ate  it. 

Maj.  Humes.  Go  on  with  any  other  phase  of  the  economic  situa- 
tion that  you  have  in  mind  and  are  familiar  with. 

Mr.  HuNTiKGTON.  Evidently  here  it  is  very  difficult  for  people 
living  under  normal  circumstances,  as  we  do,  to  make  any  picture  of 
life  there.  In  the  towns  like  Petrograd  and  Moscow,  as  soon  as  you 
come  into  them  you  immediately  mark  a  strangeness.  In  Petrograd, 
in  September,  the  town  in  the  first  place  was  very  empty.  As  many 
people  had  gone  away  as  could.  The  streets,  which  are  very  wide 
and  fine,  were  almost  empty.  A  sorrowful  aspect  over  the  whole 
place  was  very  terrible.  When  I  arrived  there  I  fortunately  had 
food  with  me,  as  every  one  else  had.  Everyone  brought  his  food. 
An  old  servant  of  the  house  where  I  lived  offered  to  share  her  one- 
eighth  of  a  pound  of  black  bread  with  me,  so  that  I  had  a  chance  to 
see  how  big  that  portion  was. 

As  far  as  the  theaters  are  concerned,  it  is  often  urged  that  the 
theater  is  an  amusement  place,  and  as  the  theaters  are  running,  life 
there  must  be  normal.  I  can  only  say  that  some  of  my  principal 
lessons  in  the  Russian  language  were  taken  from  one  of  the  best  actors 
there — one  of  the  second-rate  actors,  I  mean,  who  never  played  the 
first  role — of  the  Alexander  Theater  of  Petrograd,  and  that  he  was 
heart-broken  over  the  whole  matter,  and  recounted  to  me  the  reaction 
of  all  his  actor  friends  to  it,  and  I  was  able  in  the  theater  afterwards 
to  see  the  reaction  on  the  performance  of  these  people.  These  theaters, 
like  the  Art  Theater  of  Moscow,  which  is  perhaps  the  cleverest  in  the 
■World,  seen  in  1918  and  seen  in  1917  were  two  different  pictures ;  and 
doubtless  the  people  act  in  order  to  get  bread,  but  there  is  no  heart 
in  it. 


Senator  Overman.  What  is  the  normal  size  of  Petrograd? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Petrograd  and  Moscow  are  nearly  the  same 
size — ^2,000,000  apiece.  Population  in  war  time  swelled  by  the  influx 
of  refugees. 

Senator  Overman.  ^^Tien  you  left  there,  how  many  people  were 
left  in  Petrograd? 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  do  not  know.  I  have  seen  and  heard  esti- 
mates, but  I  have  no  waA'  to  tell  except  by  the  general  aspect  of  the 
lown  and  the  lack  of  people  on  the  streets;  no  more  movement,  no 
life,  no  "  go  "  about  it ;  the  shops,  many  of  them,  boarded  up. 

Senator  Overman.  Did  the  people  leave  the  city  on  account  of  the 
terror  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Terror  and  lack  of  food. 

Senator  Overman.  It  is  so  in  Moscow  also? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Moscow  was  a  little  better  placed,  because  Mos- 
cow is  nearer  the  center  of  the  country  and  it  has  more  railroad 
lines  running  into  it,  and  is  nearer  the  food-producing  area.  When  I 
speak  of  the  better  class  of  people  I  do  not  refer  to  the  old  court, 
necessarily,  at  all.  The  favorite  comparison  is  made  now  as  if  Russia 
was  only  in  two  parts,  the  old  court  and  the  new  Bolsheviks,  and  as  if 
the  Bolsheviks  had  made  the  Russian  revolution,  which  they  did  not; 
but  it  was  made  by  those  people,  liberal  people  of  all  kinds,  people 
who  have  been  fighters  against  the  old  regime  in  bygone  days. 

Senator  Overman.  Where  did  those  better  people  go;  where  did 
the  merchants  and  bankers  and  men  of  substance  go  when  they  left 
the  city  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Most  of  them  ran  to  Scandinavia.  Some  of 
them  went  to  the  Ukraine,  some  of  them  into  the  Baltic  Provinces, 
which  at  that  time  were  better  places.  Some  ran  to  Finland,  but  that 
got  difficult  because  the  Finns  did  not  want  more  people  over  there. 
They  had  too  little  food  themselves. 

The  better  class,  the  richer  class,  including  some  of  the  wealthiest 
class,  whom  Lenine  thought  he  had  brolien,  are  to-day  to  be  found 
in  Copenhagen,  London,  Paris,  living  along  quite  all  right,  while 
some  of  the  finest  of  the  old  Liberals  and  strugglers  are  living  in 
Moscow  in  apartments,  like  some  friends  of  mine  there,  not  knowing 
when  they  will  have  to  get  out  of  the  apartment;  having  people 
thrust  on  them ;  being  peremptorily  told  that  this  and  that  man  will 
come  and  live  with  them  to-morrow ;  and  on  their  sayin'g,  "  We  have 
not  any  room ;  every  room  is  occupied,"  being  told,  "  Well,  you  will 
have  to  double  up."  They  may  never  have  seen  this  man,  but  that 
makes  no  difference.  One  has  no  personal  liberty.  And  then,  as 
they  have  grown  more  desperate  the  terror  has  increased,  and  there 
comes  the  constant  risk  that  one's  life  may  be  taken. 

Maj.  Humes.  Have  you  any  idea  how  many  of  those  people  came 
to  this  country  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  think  comparatively  few  came  to  this  coun- 
try, because  it  was  very  difficult  to  get  passports,  very  difficult  to 
get  out — to  get  out  through  the  west  gate.  To  get  out  through  the 
gate  running  from  Petrograd  to  Stockholm  you  had  to  get  a  passport 
from  the  Swedes  before  you  could  leave  Russia,  because  Sweden  had 
a  rationing  of  food  and  did  not  want  to  take  refugees,  and  if  you 
could  get  your  passport  frotn  America,  then  you  took  it  to  the 


Swedish  and  Norwegian  authorities,  and  then  with  those  and  a 
Bolshevik  passport  you  could  presumably  leave  and  get  away  if  you 
could  pass  the  German  blockade  on  the  Baltic  Sea  on  the  way  across. 

It  is  rather  interesting,  since  the  international  point  of  view  of 
these  people  does  not  seem  to  be  comprehended  here,  and  the  fact 
that  they  worked  for  an  international  movement,  to  recount  the  story 
of  how  Mr.  Eansome  went  to  Stockholm.  He  is  an  English  writer 
of  very  considerable  brilliance  and  he  was  in  very  close  relation  with 
the  Bolshevik  government.  I  hav€  not  seen  him  doing  so,  but  some< 
of  our  Americans  reported  to  me  seeing  him  in  the  Bolshevik  foreign 
office  chatting  and  shaking  hands  with  the  German  representatives. 
That,  of  course,  was  perfectly  in  line  with  his  creed,  which  he  never 
denied,  so  far  as  I  know,  of  being  an  internationalist  and  not  recog- 
nizing the  German  as  his  enemy. 

He  came  to  the  Swedish  consul  general  one  day  in  Moscow  and 
asked  the  consul  general  for  a  passport — to  vise  his  Bolshevik  pass- 
port; not  his  usual  passport,  but  his  Bolshevik  courier's  passport; 
that  is,  the  passport  of  a  courier  carrying  documents,  which  covers 
the  courier  and  the  documents  in  a  sealed  bag,  which  he  carries.  He 
did  not  show  his  British  passport.  He  had  a  Bolshevik  passport. 
He  asked  for  a  vise  on  this.  The  Swedish  consul  general  looked  at 
him  and  said,  "  Why,  you  are  an  Englishman."  He  said,  "  Yes." 
He  said,  "There  is  no  use  my  viseing  your  passport.  You  will  get 
on  that  boat  and  they  (the  Germans)  will  put  you  off  at  Helsingfors," 
which  was  the  prominent  point  where  their  boats  stopped.  "  They 
will  take  you  off  the  boat  there."  He  said,  "  No ;  they  will  not." 
The  consul  general  said,  "  I  am  not  going  to  make  a  fool  of  myself 
and  vise  your  passport."  Kansome  came  again  and  was  refused  in 
the  same  way.  The  consul  general  said  there  was  no  use  to  talk 
about  it.  He  said,  "  You  will  be  arrested.  I  do  not  care  to  be  foolish 
about  it." 

Finally  he  came  a  third  time,  and  he  had  with  him  Mr.  Karl  Radek, 
who  was  the  representative  of  the  Bolshevik  foreign  commissariat 
in  charge  of  western  European  affairs,  whose  name  has  prominently 
figured  in  the  Bolshevik  group  in  Germany  recently  as  directing 
their  operations  or  advising  with  them.  Mr.  Radek  told  the  Swedish 
consul  general  that  they  wanted  Mr.  Eansome's  passport  vised.  He 
was  told  by  the  consul  general,  "  It  is  useless  for  me  to  do  that.  The 
Germans  will  take  him  off,  with  a  passport  vised.  They  know  he 
is  an  Englishman."  Mr.  Radek  said,  "You  leave  that  to  us.  Mr. 
Ransome  is  going  out  to  the  outside,  to  tell  the  truth  about  our 
work."  This  is  rather  interesting,  at  a  time,  of  course,  when  no 
messages  for  any  of  the  allied  countries  could  pass  out,  nor  could 
the  newspaper  correspondents  pass  out  except  at  great  risk,  through 
underground  channels;  yet  to  tell  the  truth  about  their  movement 
Mr.  Ransome  was  being  sent  by  the  Bolsheviki,  and  on  his  voyage 
to  Sweden  guaranteed  against  capture  by  the  Germans,  to  do  this 

Senator  Wolcott.  As  a  sequel  to  that,  did  Mr.  Ransome — I  do 
not  know  anything  about  the  man,  but  did  he  get  out  with  the 
rest  of  the  world  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes;  he  got  out  into  Stockholm.  I  do  not 
know  where  he  is  now.    In  Stockholm,  I  suppose  he  is. 


Senator  Wolcott.  Do  you  kno\\-  whether  he  is  writing  any  arti- 
cles for  the  papers  for  publication? 
Mr.  Huntington.  Yes ;  I  think  so. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Any  that  are  being  published  in  this  country? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes;  he  is  a  very  interesting  writer. 

Senator  Wolcott.  From  what  you  say,  we  are  entitled  to  say  that 

anything  Mr.  Ransonie  puts  out  in  this  country  ovqv  his  name  is 

the  expression  of  an  agent  of  this  Bolshevik  bunch  of  people  in 


Mr.  Huntington.  It  is  certainly-  the  expression  of  a  man  whom 
they  regard  as  a  good  propagandist,  or  interpreter  of  their  spirit 
and  work;  yes. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Have  you  seen  any  of  his  articles  in  this 
country  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  No,  sir ;  I  have  not. 

Senator  Overman.  Have  you  observed  in  this  country,  since  your 
return,  any  Bolshevik  jDropaganda  going  on — any  appearance  of  it 
in  this  country? 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  have  been  here  a  short  time,  and  I  have  made 
very  little  study  of  the  matter  up  to  this  time,  since  I  have  been 
mostly  engaged  with  the  organization  of  my  own  work,  v.-hich  is 
Russian-American  trade  relations,  preparing  for  the  future.  It 
seems  to  me,  though,  that  this  is  hot  a  case  for  fine-drawn  distinc- 
tions. If  it  be  urged  that  the  Bolshevik  Government  is  honest 
and  fair  and  true,  if  it  be  urged  by  speakers  here  that  it  be 
recognized  and  dealt  with,  when  you  had  read  to  you  this  morn- 
ing that  its  object  is  to  upset  every  government  in  the  world — to 
urge  people  to  have  such  friendly  relations  with  it  is  tantamount  to 
urging  them  to  have  relations  with  an  agency  which  contemplates 
their  ultimate  destruction.  Unless  it  "has  repealed  and  taken  back 
these  principles  which  it  has,  all  along,  been  enunciating  (of  which 
I  do  not  know),  by  actual  design  or  favorable  consideration  and  the 
condoning  of  the  terror  it  seems  to  me  one  makes  it  easier  for  these 
same  people  to  then  spread  the  doctrines  which  they  preach,  and 
which  there  is  no  hypocrisy  about,  it  being  a  matter  of  public  record 
in  our  country  and  other  countries. 

Senator  Overman.  Did  you  notice,  when  you  were  over  there,  any 
effort  to  make  propaganda  of  these  and  other  doctrines  in  other 
countries  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Constantly.  That  is  the  chief  thing  they  have 
tried  to  do — the  chief  thing  they  have  done  up  to  this  time. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Are  you  going  to  some  other  subject  now, 

Maj.  Humes.  I  was  going  to  take  that  right  up. 
Are  you  familiar  with  any  particular  instances  where  the  agencies 
of  the  Bolsheviki  regime  went  into  neutral  countries  for  the  purpose 
of  carrying  their  propaganda,  financed  from  Russia  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Wlien  I  was  in  Sweden  in  September,  it  was 
brought  to  my  attention  by  a  Socialist  friend,  who  arrived  on  a  boat 
from  Petrograd,  that  the  former  commissar  of  finance,  Mr.  Gukovsky, 
had  come  on  that  boat  with  a  young  lady,  and  Mr.  Gukovsky  had 
18  trunks  and  the  young  lady  was  reported  to  have  had  three, 
fl.nd  the  chief  contents  of  the  trunks,  or  one  of  the  chief  articles 


contained  in  the  trunks,  was  said  to  be  upward  of  60,000,000  rubles  of 
old  currency,  or  at  least  currency  printed  on  the  dies  of  the  old 
regime — the  fine  old  bills.  Those  bills  were  worth  in  Stockholm  at 
that  time,  where  there  was  a  considerable  market,  about  52/100  of  a 
Swedish  crown,  depending  upon  the  market,  whereas  the  new  so- 
called  Kerensky  money,  printed  from  the  new  designs,  was  only 
41/100  of  a  crown.  The  small  shin  plaster  "  kerenki,"  in  denomina- 
tions of  20  and  40  rubles,  brought  about  30/100  of  a  Swedish  crown. 
Maj.  Humes.  What  is  the  money  of  the  Bolsheviki  regime  worth, 

Mr.  Huntington.  At  that  rate,  that  quantity  of  money  would  rep- 
resent something  like  30,000,000  Swedish  crowns,  or  by  the  exchange 
of  that  day,  about  10,000,000  American  dollars,  for  propaganda  pur- 

Senator  Overman.  For  Bolshevik  propaganda^ 
Mr.  Huntington.  For  propaganda  purposes.     For  propaganda 
purposes  in  Sweden  they  had  a  legation.    I  did  not  go  into  it,  but 
of  course  many  people  have  been  in  it.     They  had  there  a  score  of 

In  Copenhagen  they  had  another  such  legation.  In  Bergen  they 
had  their  agent ;  but  chiefly  in  Copenhagen  and  Stockholm  they  had 
large  legations  that  were  steadily  at  work  all'  the  time  putting  out 
propaganda  into  the  Swedish  and  Danish  nations,  with  the  idea  of 
catching  the  workmen  in  those  countries. 

Senator  Overman.  Do  you  know  of  any  effort  in  this  country? 
Mr.  Huntington.  I  have  made  very  little  study  of  it,  sir;  but  there 
ure  appearing  lately,  apparently  in  the  last  few  days,  journals  which 
I  have  seen,  which  certainly  advocate  a  very  friendly  attitude  toward 
the  Bolshevik,  in  which  certiiiu  articles,  written  by  them,  appeared. 
As,  for  instance,  a  journal  called  "  The  Liberator,"  in  which  an  ar- 
ticle by  Mr.  Lenine  appeared ;  and  others  like  that,  advocating  their 
system,  have  appeared. 

Senator  Overman.  It  seems  from  what  you  say  that  they  have  a 
large  fund  outside  of  Russia  for  this  propaganda  work  in  order  to 
overturn  all  the  governments  of  the  world. 
Mr.  Huntington.  That  is  my  understanding. 
Senator  Overman.  Do  you  think  they  go  into  England  and  Ger 
many  also,  with  their  propaganda? 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  know  that  they  have  been  in  Germany,  work 
ing  as  hard  as  they  can.    In  England  they  are  working,  yes,  too. 
Senator  Overman.  And  in  France? 
Mr.  Huntington.  Yes ;  oh,  yes. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Coming  back  to  this  man  Ransome — what  is  his 
full  name? 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  think  his  first  name  is  Arthur.     I  do  not  know 
any  other  name. 

Senator  Wolcott.  It  runs  in  my  mind,  in  a  rather  hazy  way,  that 
I  have  seen  some  articles  in  newspapers  in  this  country  by  that  man. 
Mr.  Huntington.  He  wrote  for  the  New  York  Times,  for  a  serv- 
ice in  which  they  were  partakers,  and  for  a  long  time,  I  was  told  by 
one  of  their  editors,  they  printed  his  articles  because  they  thought 
they  were  interesting  and  because  it  gave  the  other  side  of  the  story. 
They  said  they  used  to  print  them  and  put  a  headline  over  them 
85723—19 6 


explaining  who  he  was.  I  have  never  seen  that.  I  was  not  here  at 
that  period. 

Senator  Wolcott.  He  came  out  of  Russia  when  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  could  get  the  exact  date,  perhaps,  out  of  a 
diary  or  a  notebook.     I  should  think  it  was  in  July. 

Senator  Wolcott.  In  1918? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes;  maybe  in  August. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Apparently  the  Russian  Bolshevik  official  who 
induced  the  Swedish  consul  to  vise  his  passport  had  some  connection 
with  the  German  authorities  which  wag  of  such  nature  that  this 
man  Ransome  would  be  allowed  to  go  on  to  his  destination,  showing 
that  there  was  some  connection  between  the  Bolsheviks  and  some- 
l30dy  in  Germany.  Were  the  Spartacans  at  that  particular  time  in 
the  ascendancy  in  Germany? 

Mr.  Huntington.  No;  the  change  in  Germany  had  not  taken 
place.  Their  relations  were  founded  upon  a  treaty  of  peace  and 

Senator  Wolcott.  Oh,  yes;  that  was  in  July,  1918.  Of  course, 
that  was  before  the  armistice? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes.  That  treaty  was  with  the  Imperial  Ger- 
man Government. 

Senator  Wolcott.  The  Kaiser  was  still  on  the  throne  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes. 

Senator  Overman.  They  carried  the  red  flag.  That  is  what  it 
means,  "  the  Reds  "?     Is  that  what  these  Bolsheviks  carry? 

Mr.  Huntington.  The  flag  is,  of  course,  simply  of  the  socialist 

Senator  Overman.  It  is  simply  revolutionary  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes. 

Senator  0^^;EMAN.  Do  the  socialists  carry  it.  also? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes. 

Senator  Overman.  And  do  the  I.  W.  W.  carry  it,  also? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes. 

Senator  Overman.  The  I.  W.  W.  have  a  red  flag,  the  Bolsheviks 
have  a  red  flag,  and  the  socialists  have  a  red  flag.  What  does  that 
all  mean — the  red  flag?     Is  it  just  an  emblem  of  revolution? 

Mr.  Huntington.  It  means  not  always  the  same  thing. 

Senator  Overman.  On  the  railroads  something  like  that  means 
danger  ahead.    On  automobiles,  in  the  rear,  it  means  danger. 

Mr.  Huntington.  In  the  case  of  the  Bolsheviks  it  means  interna- 
tionalism without  regarding  nationalit}'^,  and  the  spirit  of  the  social 
revolution  throughout  the  world. 

Senator  Overman.  What  does  it  mean  with  the  socialists? 

Mr.  Huntington.  In  the  case  of  the  socialists,  in  the  case  of  the 
honest  socialists,  as  far  as  I  understand  it — of  course  I  am  defining 
it  as  an  outsider — it  means  a  symbol  of  the  emancipation  of  society 
which  they  hope  to  achieve  by  honest  methods. 

Senator  Overman.  What  does  it  mean  in  the  I.  W.  W.  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  do  not  know  about  the  I.  W.  W.  I  have  not 
been  in  contact  with  that  organization. 

Senator  Overman.  Is  it  not  very  significant  that  all  these  asso- 
ciations have  the  same  flag,  the  red  flag? 


Mr.  Htjntington.  That  has  occurred  to  me,  but  I  have  not  fol- 
lowed it. 

Senator  Overman.  That  thej'  all  should  adopt  one  flag,  is  not  that 
significant  ? 

Maj.  Humes.  At  the  time  of  the  Ransome  incident,  is  it  not  true' 
that  the  Bolshevik  government  had  an  ambassador  in  Germany? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Oh,  yes;  they  had 

Maj.  Humes.  That  was  after  the  treaty  of  peace,  and  they  were 
officially  represented  in  Germany  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes;  they  were  in  friendly  relations  with  Ger- 
many. There  was  no  reason  in  the  world  why  they  should  not  have 
relations  with  Germany  after  the  signing  of  the  treaty  of  peace  with 

Maj.  Humes.  So  that  they  were  at  that  time  on  friendly  terms 
with  the  German  Government  and  in  touch  with  the  German  Gov- 
ernment through  their  diplomatic  service? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Oh,  yes. 

Senator  Overman.  Do  you  know  what  sort  of  flag  the  nihilists 
have  ?    Is  that  a  red  flag  also  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  do  not  know. 

Senator  Overman.  And  how  about  the  anarchists? 

Mr.  Huntington.  The  anarchists  have  a  black  flag. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Do  you  know  whether  or  not  there  are  any 
speakers  or  writers  in  this  country  who  are  acting  in  the  interests  of 
•  this  world-wide  Bolshevik  movement  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  do  not  know.  I  only  can  tell  anything  at  all 
by  reading  the  speeches  and  contributions  of  people  in  the  press,  and 
where  they  appear  to  be  not  only  friendly  to  the  Bolshevik  govern- 
ment, but  to  desire  that  it  be  aided  and  helped ;  and  either  they  do 
this  in  ignorance  or  they  do  it  hoping  that  the  ideals  of  the  so-called 
soviet  government  will  be  realized  in  this  country  or  other  coun- 
tries where  they  may  be  working. 

Senator  Wolcott.  At  all  events,  you  do  see  in  the  public  prints  in 
this  country,  at  one  time  and  another,  things  that  are  entirely  in 
harmony  with  these  Bolshevik  expressions? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes. 

Senator  Overman.  Did  you  go  to  this  meeting  at  Poll's  Theater 
that  people  have  been  talking  about  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes. 

Senator  Overman.  Was  that  speaking  there  in  line  with  that? 

Mr.  Huntington.  What  was  done  there  was  very  definite.  There 
were  two  speakers,  a  gentleman  and  a  lady,  who  each  one  in  his 
own  way  handled  this  question,  and  who  spoke  from  experience  in 
Russia,  and  who  praised  the  movement  there,  and  who  justified  its 
activities  there. 

Senator  Overman.  Were  they  American  citizens? 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  think  so. 

Senator  Wolcott.  They  had  just  come  from  Russia? 

Mr.  Huntington.- I  do  not  know  how  lately.  I  do  not  know  the 
exact  date  of  their  arrival  here ;  within  a  few  months,  I  think. 

Senator  Wolcott.  My  recollection  is  that  that  meeting  was  a 
n)e«i-.iin«  that  was  called  for  the  nurnose  of  telling  the  people  herp> 


in  the  Capital  the  truth  about  Russia.  Was  not  that  the  express 
purpose  of  the  meeting? 

Mr.  Huntington.  That  was  the  caption  in  the  newspaper  adver- 

Senator  Wolcott.  They  used  the  same  phrases  exactly  as  were 
employed  by  the  Bolshevik  man  over  in  Russia  when  he  was  inducing 
the  Swedish  consul  to  vise  the  passport  oi  Mr.  Ransome,  who,  ac- 
cording to  the  Bolsheviki,  was  going  out  into  the  world  to  tell  the 
truth  about  Russia? 

Mr.  Htjntington.  Yes. 

Maj.  Humes.  Were  you  present  at  that  meeting? 

Mr.  Huntington.  In  Washington,  here? 

Maj.  Humes.  Yes. 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes,  sir. 

Maj.  Humes.  What  do  you  say  as  to  the  statements  made  by  those 
persons  being  the  truth  about  Russia  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Well,  I  took  careful  note  of  many  of  them,  and 
it  seemed  to  me  that,  in  the  light  of  my  own  knowledge,  they  were 
not  true,  at  all.  What  this  was  founded  on,  whether  on  poor  obser- 
vation or  ignorance  of  the  subject  or  willful  misrepresentation,  I  do 
not  know;  but  I  do  not  believe  that  the  audience  heard  the  truth 
about  Russia. 

Maj.  Humes.  Do  you  or  do  you  not  know,  as  a  fact,  that  the  man 
who  spoke  on  that  occasion  came  to  this  country  purporting  to  offi- 
cially represent  the  Bolshevist  government? 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  do  not  know.  I  have  heard  that,  but  I  do  not 
kno^v  of  my  own  knowledge. 

Maj.  PIuMES.  Do  you  know  from  your  own  knowledge  of  an  at- 
tempt made,  while  you  were  in  Russia,  by  an  emissary  of  the  Bol- 
shevist government  to  present  credentials  of  the  Bolshevist  gov- 
ernment in  this  country? 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  know  of  it  simply  because  of  having  been  em- 
ployed in  the  American  Embassy,  that  there  was  a  request  made  by 
the  Bolshevik  commisar  of  foreign  affairs,  the  date  of  which  I  do  not 
recall,  since  it  was  not  my  business — it  was  told  to  me  as  a  matter  of 
interest  only  by  another  whose  business  it  was — to  accredit  Mr.  John 
Reed  as  consul  general  of  the  people's  soviet  government  in  New 

Senator  Overman.  Is  he  the  man  that  is  interned  now? 

Maj.  Humes.  No;  he  has  been  indicted. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Was  it  his  wife  that  was  at  this  meeting,  speak- 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  understand  so. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Did  she  call  herself  Mrs.  Reed  ? 

Maj.  Humes.  No;  Louise  Bryant  was  the  name  she  went  by  here. 

Senator  Wolcott.  She  is  the  wife,  then,  of  an  aspirant  to  the 
office  of  consul  of  the  Bolsheviki? 

Senator  Overman.  Did  she  speak  here  ? 

Maj.  Humes.  Yes,  sir;  under  the  name  of  Louise  Bryant. 

Senator  Overman.  I  noticed  a  communication  in  that  document 
you  had,  from  John  Reed  ? 

Maj.  HmsiEs.  Yes. 

Senator  Overman.  And  there  is  one  from  Lenine. 


Maj.  Humes.  Can  you  point  out  some  of  the  erroneous  statements 
that  were  made  by  these  two  speakers  at  the  meeting  in  question  ?  I 
do  not  want  to  go  over  their  addresses  in  detail,  but  just  as  you  think 
of  them,  just  the  high  spots. 

Mr.  Huntington.  If  that  would  be  of  value,  I  have  notes,  but  not 
with  me,  on  that.  I  could  take  those  up  if  it  should  be  thought  de- 
sirable to  do  so. 

Maj.  Humes.  I  do  not  know  whether  the  committee  would  care  to 
take  that  up  in  detail  or  not. 

Mr.  Huntington.  I  think  it  is  rather  long. 

Senator  Overman.  I  think  he  has  told  generally  about  it — that 
it  is  the  Bolshevik  doctrine  that  they  are  preaching  there,  and  it  is 
not  true. 

Maj.  Humes.  You  stated  a  few  moments  ago  that  the  Bolslieviki 
were  represented  in  Germany  by  an  ambassador.  What  other  coun- 
try received  ambassadors  or  ministers? 

Mr.  Huntington.  They  had  relations  with  the  neutral  Scandi- 
navian countries,  Sweden,  Norway,  and  Denmark,  and  they  also  had 
relations  with  Holland  and  Switzerland.  Holland's  minister  has 
left,  and  the  Swedish  minister  and  all  the  consular  officers  have  been 
recalled,  and  I  understand  the  Norwegian  also,  and  it  has  since  ap- 
peared in  the  papers  that  the  Danish  minister  appeared  in  Paris  at 
the  peace  confei-ence.  The  papers  also  stated  that  the  Swiss  minister 
had  some -difficulty  in  getting  away.  I  can  not  say  whether  he  has 
finally  left  or  not. 

Senator  Oveeman.  Do  you  know  whether  this  Bolshe^-ik  move- 
ment is  in  Switzerland,  Norway,  and  Denmark? 

Mr.  Huntington.  They  are  all  free  countries,  all  democratic 
countries,  and  from  time  immemorial  Switzerland  has  been  a  country 
in  Europe  where  people  might  say  what  they  liked,  and  take  refuge, 
and  these  people  have  enjoyed  Switzerland's  hospitality  like  many 

Senator  Oveeman.  Is  there  an  eifort  to  infuse  that  doctrine  among 
the  Swiss? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Most  decidedly. 

Maj.  Humes.  You  said  something  with  reference  to  graft  in 
Russia.  What  do  you  know  about  the  question  of  graft  in  the  pres- 
ent regime? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Well,  I  can  only  repeat  the  words  of  a  business 
man  who  was  trying  to  do  business  there.  When  I  asked  him  that 
question,  he  stated  he  had  never  found  it  so  expensive  to  do  business 
as  now.  As  a  matter  of  fact,  the  places  in  the  ministi'y,  or  so-called 
commissariats,  are  filled  by  chance  men,  and  these  men  are  changed 
often,  and  lots  of  times  these  men  are  simply  men  who  have  never  had 
much  opportunity  in, life,  and  therefore  perhaps  have  not  built  up 
strong  characters  or  principles,  and  also  because  they  think  they  may 
need  the  money.  As  a  matter  due  to  the  lack  of  morality,  and  an 
anarchical  condition,  the  use  of  money  for  such  purposes  is  very  fre- 
quent and  usual. 

Senator  Oveeman.  Was  not  that  so  under  the  old  regime,  that  there 
was  bribery  and  corruption? 

Mr.  Huntington.  There  always  has  been  in  Eussia,  which  par- 
takes of  the  Orient  in  that  way,  but  never  to  such  an  extent  as  now. 


Senator  Over Ji an.  If  you  wanted  things  done  you  would  have  to 
grease  them  I 

Jlr.  HuNTiNGTox.  Yes:  but  strangely  enough  under  the  monarchy 
the  bargain  was  observed,  and  if  the  grease  had  been  given,  as  a  rule 
it  was  thorouglily  standardized — if  you  will  overlook  my  apparent 
cynicism — and  the  promise  that  was  given  was  kept,  while  at  present 
people  have  no  hesitancy  in  accepting  money  and  turning  on  the 
giver,  which  seems  to  be  a  little  worse  than  the  other,  although 
neither  is  defensible.  The  difficulty  under  the  old  regime  was  the 
oriental  character  of  the  people,  and  was  in  numy  places  also  due 
to  the  low  pay  of  the  government  officials,  who  came  to  regard  these 
fees  which  they  received  as  a  part  of  their  income.  An  official  in  the 
ministry  of  commerce,  we  will  say,  through  wlwse  hands  certain 
applications  and  papers  p)assed,  and  who  by  signing  a  paper  quickly 
could  forward  it  and  get  a  matter  through,  instead  of  the  slow  prog- 
ress it  usually  made,  would  accept  a  fee  for  it,  salving  his  con- 
science by  saying  that  he  ought  to  receive  it  from  the  government, 
and  since  they  did  not  pay  it  he  Avould  take  it  from  these  men. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Coming  back  to  this  Washington  meeting  for  a 
moment.  You  say  3'ou  were  down  there  and  took  notes.  While 
there  was  praise  of  the  soviet  government  of  Russia,  was  there  or 
not  any  criticism  or  denunciation  of  our  form  of  government  in  this 
country  ? 

Mr.  HrXTiN(!TOX.  I  was  at  the  meeting  from  -1  o'clock  until  about 
half  past  4.  That  was  the  period  of  the  two  speeches  and  of  the 
introductions.  There  was  no  more  criticism  of  our  form  of  govern- 
ment in  that  time,  as  far  as  the  introducer  or  the  speakers  were 
concerned,  than  would  be  usual  in  a  political  discussion  on  their 
part.  During  the  period  I  was  there  the  criticism  was  only  by 
implication;  that  is,  thev  defended  and  advocated  and  urged  aid  for 
and  consideration  for,  and  justified,  a  government  whose  avowed 
purpose  is  to'  overthrow  ours.  They  did  not,  during  the  time 
I  was  there,  say  anything  directly  about  the  overthrow  of  the  Gov- 

Senator  Wolcoit.  Doctor,  do  you  know  anything  of  an  incident  or 
a  rather  gruesome  thing  that  occurred  in  Eussia  that  had  to  do 
with  throwing  some  dukes  or  grand  dukes  down  into  a  well  and 
firiiio-  band  grenades  in  on  them? 

]^.Ir.  Hux-JiNGTOx.  There  was  a  thing  of  that  kind  reported  in  the 
Ural  JMountains,  in  the  cit^'  of  Ekaterinburg,  which  is  a  sort  of 
capital  in  the  I^rals,  a  city  of  some  size,  and  a  mining  center.  It  was 
in  this  city  that  the  Czar  and  his  family  were  confined.  Also  grand 
dukes  had  been  confined  there,  and  .some  others  at  times.  The  letter, 
Avritten  in  November  by  an  American  business  man,  who  was  there, 
states  it  as  a  fact  that  this  was  done,  and  that  the  bodies  were  re- 
<jovered.    That  is  all  I  know. 

Senator  Wolcutt.  How  many  of  them  were  thrown  in  there? 

^Ir.  Huntin(;tox.  I  do  not  know. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Was  it  into  a  well  that  the  letter  stated  they 
were  thrown? 

iir.  HrxTixcTox.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Wolcott.  And  hand  grenades  thrown  on  them? 

]Mr.  HrxTixGTOx.  Thrown  on  them;  ves. 


Senator  Wolcott.  And  all  of  them  killed  in  there  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Yes;  that  was  the  account. 

Senator  Overman.  Plow  is  the  treatment  of  women  and  children? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Why,  nothing  special.  The  Bolshevik  theory  of 
government,  which  has  got  all  the  liberal  innovations — the  good  with 
the  bad,  all  kinds,  of  course — is  the  equal  rights  of  women. 
The  practice  is  all  right  toward  them  as  far  as  any  attention  is 
paid  at  all  to  the  women  and  children,  except  the  women  and 
children  of  the  former  so-called  upper  classes,  who  are  consid- 
ered as  class  enemies  and  who  may  be  let  alone  or  who  may  be 
arrested.  The  Official  Gazette  of  September  5,  which  I  did  not  read 
this  morning  but  of  which  you  have  a  copy,  said  that  they  arrested 
Kerensky's  wife  and  children  as  hostages.  There  are  reports  that 
the  children  have  been  killed.    I  could  not  state. 

Senator  Overman.  They  regarded  men  and  women  as  equals,  and 
if  they  imposed  cruelties  on  men  they  treated  the  women  the  same 
way,  taking  the  property  away  from  them  ? 

Mr.  Huntington.  Certainly,  as  far  as  that  is  concerned. 

Senator  Overman.  They  made  no  difference  with  women,  either 
for  or  against? 

Mr.  HuNiTNGTON.  No ;  except  that  the  women  come  less  in  con- 
tact with  them  from  the  fact  of  having  more  to  do  at  home.  They 
come  under  the  tyranny;  as  friends  of  mine  did  who  were  called 
before  a  commissar  and  were  told  that  they  must  take  men  into 
their  quarters  to  live  there;  and  they  may  be  embarrassed  by  them 
living  in  small  places,  and  not  being  able  to  be  shut  off  from  people 
whom  they  have  never  seen.  I  do  not  loiow  of  anything  besides  that, 
out  of  my  personal  knowledge.  I  know — not  personally,  but  by 
an  account  given  by  another — that  in  Moscow  many  women  were  im- 
prisoned, and  in  a  particular  instance  a  Russian  lady  in  whose 
house  a  British  diplomatic  representative  lived,  was  in  the  same 
prison  and  described  the  conditions.  That  is  all  I  know  of  any  par- 
ticular case. 

Senator  Overman.  Is  there  any  considerable  number  of  women  in 
the  army  over  there  ? 

Mr.  HuxTiNGTON.  No,  sir.  There  was  the  so-called  women's  bat- 
talion under  the  government  of  Kerensky,  which  doubtless  repre- 
sented on  their  part,  or  at  least  of  part  of  them,  a  noble  striving,  and 
on  the  part  of  others  a  spirit  of  adventure;  but  it  had  no  material 
weight  in  the  scale  at  all. 

Senator  Overman.  There  was  not  any  considerable  number? 

Mr.  Huntington.  No,  sir. 

Senator  Overman.  Any  questions.  Major? 

Maj.  Humes.  I  have  no  other  questions  at  this  time. 

Senator  Overman.  We  are  very  much  obliged  to  you. 

Mr.  Huntington.  If  there  is  anything  else  that  I  can  tell  you,  I 
am  at  your  disposal. 

Senator  Overman.  Thank  you.  If  we  need  any  other  testimony, 
we  shall  call  on  you. 

Now,  is  there  any  other  witness  that  you  can  put  on  this  after- 

Maj.  Humes.  Yes,  sir;  Mr.  Harper. 



(The  witness  was  sworn  by  the  chah-man.) 

Maj.  Humes.  Mr.  Harper,  where  do  you  live? 

Mr.  Harper.  Chicago. 

3Iaj.  Humes.  In  what  business  or  profession  are  you  engaged? 

Mr.  Harper.  I  am  a  teacher  in  the  University  of  Chicago. 

Maj.  Humes.  Have  you  during  a  number  of  years  past  given 
special  attention  to  Eussia  and  to  Russian  conditions  and  Eussian 
history '. 

Mr.  Harper.  ]My  special  topic  of  study  has  been  Eussia.  My 
official  title  in  the'  university  is  assistant  professor  of  Eussian  lan- 
guage and  institutions.  I  have  devoted  the  major  portion  of  my 
time  during  the  last  15  years  to  the  study  of  Eussian  institutions, 
Eussian  historj'.  and  Eussian  political  movements. 

Maj.  Humes.  How  much  time  have  you  spent  in  Eussia  during 
that  period? 

Mr.  Harper.  An  aggregate,  I  should  say,  of  about  four  years,  but 
it  has  been  spread  out.  I  have  been  able  to  go  to  Eussia  frequently 
by  arrangements  with  the  university  or  other  institutions  with  which 
I  have  been  connected.  I  have  made  to  Eussia  12  visits,  varying  in 
length  from  two  to  six  months. 

Maj.  Humes.  When  were  you  last  in  Eussia? 

Mr.  Harper.  In  1917.  I  arrived  in  Eussia  the  end  of  June,  1917, 
and  left  the  end  of  September  of  that  same  year,  1917. 

Maj.  Humes.  That  was  during  the  so-called  Kerensky  regime? 

Mr.  Harper.  Yes.  I  arrived  when  Prince  Lvoff  was  still  prime 
minister  of  the  first  provisional  government. 

Maj.  Humes.  Have  you  during  the  last  few  years  been  in  the 
service  of  the  Government  in  connection  with  anj^  Eussian  work? 

Mr.  Harper.  I  have  not  been  in  the  service  of  the  Government  in 
the  sense  of  being  officially  appointed  as  a  Government  official  or  at- 
tached officially  to  an  embass;\' ,  but  in  my  last  two  visits  to  Eussia.  in 
1916  and  19l7,  I  offered  my  services  to  the  ambassador,  and  my 
services  were  used  occasionallj'  as  an  interpreter.  But  I  have  had  no 
official  connection  with  the  Government  in  the  sense  of  being  ap- 
pointed to  a  definite  task  or  being  paid  for  a  definite  piece  of  work. 

Maj.  HuJiEs.  Now,  Professor,  Avill  you  outline  the  changes  in  the 
Government  of  Eussia,  commencing  with  the  overthrow  of  the  mon- 
archical government,  the  different  forms  of  government,  and  the  the- 
ories of  government  of  the  different  regimes  ? 

Mr.  Harper.  The  form  of  government  before  the  revolution  was 
somewhat  difficult  to  define  in  our  terms. 

Maj.  Humes.  What  do  you  mean  by  revolution? 

^Mr.  Harper.  Before  the  revolution  of  March,  1917.  The  head  of 
the  state  was  an  emperor  so  that  we  call  it  a  monarchical  form  of  gov- 
ernment. The  fundamental  laws,  what  would  be  our  Constitution, 
spoke  of  him  as  an  autocrat.  There  had  been  instituted  since  1905  a 
representative  elective  assembly,  the  Duma,  elected  not  by  direct  suf- 
frage, but  elected  on  a  system  of  elections  bj'  which  all  groups  of  the 
population  were  represented,  though  not  in  proportion  to  their 
number.  It  was  in  that  sense  a  representative  body.  It  had  legisla- 
tive functions,  but  it  did  not  have  much  control  over  the  adminis- 


tration.  In  view  of  the  fact  that  they  had  a  legislature  elected,  it 
was  technically  called  a  constitutional  form  of  government,  though 
in  actual  practice  the  parliament  had  very  little  independent  voice 
in  the  affairs  of  the  country.  It  had  no  control  over  the  administra- 
tion.   It  did  control  legislation  to  a  certain  extent. 

This  institution  was  introduced  in  1905.  From  the  very  start  there 
was  conflict  between  what  Avas  called  the  government,  that  is  the 
executive,  and  this  legislative  body.  The  first  Duma  sat  only  two 
months  and  was  dissolved.  The  second  Dmna  sat  only  two  months 
and  was  dissolved.  A  change  in  the  election  law  was  introduced  by 
which  a  larger  share  in  the  voting  and  dominant  conti-ol  of  the  elec- 
tions Avas  secured  to  the  landlord  and  manufacturing  classes  in  the 
third  Duma. 

Senator   Wolcott.  That   change   in   election   law    was   made   by 
whom  ? 

Mr.  Harper.  It  was  made  by  the  sovereign,  by  the  Emperor,  and 
this  was  quite  distinctly  a  coup  d'etat.  It  was  an  infringement  of  the 
constitution — the  fundamental  laws. 

Senator  Wolcott.  It  was  not  made  by  the  legislative  body  of  the 
nation  ? 

Mr.  Harper.  No.    It  was  made  by  the  sovereign. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Had  this  Duma  any  real  legislative  power  ? 

Mr.  Harper.  In  the  fundamental  law  one  clause  read  that  no  meas- 
ure could  become  a  law  without  the  sanction  of  the  imperial  council — 
which  was  an  upper  house,  half  appointed  and  half  elected — and  the 
Imperial  Duma.  Various  devices  were  used  to  get  around  that  pro- 
vision. I  will  cite  just  one.  In  the  fundamental  law  there  was  also 
a  provision  that  in  the  event  of  emergency  the  administration  or 
executive  could  introduce  a  measure,  and  could  apply  that  measure 
immediately,  the  provision  being  made,  however,  that  within  60 
days  after  the  reconvening  of  the  legislature  the  measure  must  be^ 
submitted  to  the  legislature. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Was  it  under  the  emergency  provision  that  the 
Czar  proclaimed  the  change  in  this  election  law  that  you  spoke  of  ? 

Mr.  Harper.  No;  he  did  not.  In  the  manifesto  dissolving  the 
second  Duma  and  introducing  the  new  electoral  law,  though  I  do  not 
recall  the  words  exactly,  he  pointed  out  that  this  second  Duma  had 
not  proven  worthy ;  that  the  system  of  election  was  faulty ;  and  he 
appealed  to  his  historic  right  to  change  the  law.  It  was  frankly  a 
coup  d'etat. 

This  third  Duma  was  elected,  if  I  remember  correctly,  in  1907.  It 
went  through  its  full  period  of  five  years,  but  toward  the  end  of 
its  session,  despite  the  fact  that  it  had  been  elected  under  this  new 
law  which  gave  to  the  propertied  classes  the  majority  of  the  seats  in 
the  electoral  colleges  that  elected  the  Duma — it  was'  an  indirect 
election — ^the  Duma  developed  an  oppositionary  spirit. 

During  the  elections  for  the  fourth  Duma  in  1912 — I  happened  to 
be  in  Kussia  at  thei  time — the  administration  was  able,  through 
its  local  officials,  to  exercise  a  very  definite  control  over  the  elections, 
and  the  fourth  Duma  had  even  a  larger  majority  of  the  landlord  and 
manufacturing  classes.  They  were  politically  the  more  conservative 
element  of  the  community,  and  this  election  law  was  a  very  interesting 
law  in  that  it  definitely  provided  for  representation  of  all  groups  of 


the  population.  I  avoid  the  word  "  class,"  and  call  them  groups — 
economic  groups.  The  Eussian  community  had  been  divided  into 
economic  groups  verj-  rigidly  for  a  great  many  generations.  The 
system  of  taxation  was  perhaps  the  most  important  factor  behind  this 
distribution  of  the  population  into  economic  groups.  Roughly,  a  man 
who  was  a  landlord  owning  a  large  estate  would  be  in  the  landlord 
group;  the  manufacturer  would  be  in  tlie  manufacturers'  group. 
There  would  also  be  the  worlonen  group  and  the  peasant  group. 
Those  were  the  largest  groups.  The  clei'gy  were  also  a  group  by 
themselves,  the  basis  not  being  economic  entirely,  although  to  a  cer- 
tain extent,  because  the  clergy  under  the  old  regime  received  not 
only  a  salary  but  were  assigned  a  certain  amount  of  land,  which  the 
village  priest  either  cultivated  himself  or  had  cultivated,  and  that 
■was  iDart  of  his  means  of  subsistence. 

This  electoral  laAv  provided  for  the  repi'esentation  of  each  of  those 
groups,  and  it  provided  that  the  peasants  must  elect  a  peasant 
representative  from  their  own  number  to  this  assembly.  Without 
going  into  the  detail  of  that  law,  the  result  was  that  one  found  in 
the  fourth  Duma,  on  the  eve  of  the  war,  landlords,  one  found  manu- 
facturers, one  found  peasants — that  is  to  say,  men  who  came  from  the 
villages — and  one  found  workmen  who  were  elected  under  this  elec- 
toral system  from  the  factories.  In  one  sense  it  was  a  very  repre- 
sentative bod}',  in  that  all  groups  had  tlieir  spokesman,  the  basis  of 
the  law  being  that  workmen's  interests  could  be  represented  only  by 
workmen,  and  peasants'  interests  by  peasants. 

Theoretically,  then,  all  groups  were  represented,  and  it  was  a  ques- 
tion of  the  weight  that  the  electoral  law  ga\e  to  each  grouj).  If  I 
am  not  mistaken,  of  the  450  members  of  the  Duma,  only  13  or  14 
were  workmen,  and  the  peasants  were  about  80,  one  from  each  of 
the  provinces,  and  some  had  slipped  in  in  addition  to  the  peasant 
deputies  that  had  been  elected  under  the  provisions  of  the  law  from 
each  province.  Then  the  rest  were  professional  men,  men  of  the 
liberal  professions,  landlords  or  manufacturers,  the  landlord  and 
manufacturing  classes  being  given  by  the  law  a  majority  in  the 

The  fourth  Duma  worked  with  the  government  for  the  first 
period  of  its  existence,  but  very  early,  before  the  war,  there  developed 
the  conflict  between  the  Duma,  representing  the  beginning  of  con- 
stitutionalism in  Eussia,  and  the  government.  This  conflict  was 
very  bitter  on  the  eve  of  the  war.  The  first  reports  from  Eussia 
after  the  declaration  or  outbreak  of  war  in  August,  1914,  spoke  of 
a  session  of  the  Duma  that  was  called.  The  Duma  was  called,  was 
convened  in  extraordinary  session,  and  the  reports  of  the  speeches 
there  showed  that  all  the  leaders  of  the  various  parties  in  the  Duma — 
and  there  were  social  democrats  and  reactionaries — were  going  to 
drop  their  political  strife  in  support  of  the  government,  and  the 
Duma  voted  the  war  appropriations  asked  for  by  the  government. 

When  the  war  began  to  go  against  Eussia,  and  members  of  the 
Duma  saw  the  inefficienc}-  with  which  the  war  was  being  conducted, 
they  demanded  a  reconvening  of  the  Duma,  which  took  place  in  the 
early  months  of  1915,  and  at  that  meeting  it  was  clear  that  conflict 
was  again  developing  between  the  Duma  and  the  government, 
not  on  the  basis  of  any   internal   political  questions,  but  on  the 


basis  of  the  acts  and  methods  of  the  government  in  organizing 
the  machinery  for  the  prosecution  of  tlie  war.  This  conflict  took 
a  sharper  turn  in  the  beginning  of  the  second  year  of  tlie  Avar 
after  the  defeats  and  military  disasters  on  the  southwestern  front, 
and  in  Poland  particularly,  and  the  Duma  was  convened  but  not 
allowed  to  sit  for  a  very  long  period. 

I  left  Eussia,  on  my  second  visit  since  the  outbreak  of  the  war,  in 
September,  1916,  and  by  that  date  the  conflict  between  the  Duma  and 
the  government  had  Ijecome  very  definite,  and  those  of  us  who 
Avere  following  that  phase  of  the  situation  saw  very  many  evidences 
pointing  to  an  open  conflict  between  the  public,  which  was  repre- 
sented with  the  limitations  that  I  have  indicated  in  this  Duma,  and 
the  government,  or  administration,  the  ruling  group. 

The  history  of  the  revolution,  as  given  by  Dr.  Huntington,  points 
out  that  during  the  period  of  the  revolution  itself,  that  first  week, 
the  Duma  played  a  very  important  role,  and  it  was  from  the  com- 
mittee of  the  Duma  that  the  first  provisional  government  was  ap- 
pointed, in  collaboration — that  is,  after  consultation — with  the  lead- 
ers in  these  other  institutions,  the  so^-iets,  that  emerged  from  the  first 
•days  of  the  revolution. 

The  first  government  after  the  revolution  was  the  provisional  gov- 
ernment. It  was  called  the  provisional  government,  the  word  ''  pro- 
visional '"  indicating  that  it  was  not  a  permanent  government,  but 
provisional  until  the  convening  of  a  constituent  assembly  that  would 
determine  the  form  of  government  for  Eussia.  This  first  provisional 
government  Avas  not  in  a  technical  and  political  sense  responsible 
to  anybody.  It  did  not  consider  itself  responsible  to  the  Duma. 
This  Duma  connnittee  had  met  during  those  first  da3's  of  the 
revolution  and  selected  this  government,  and  continued  to  meet 
but  really  as  a  private  gathering.  The  Duma  was  not  abolished.  It 
was  a  very  moot  question  as  to  what  the  status  of  the  parliament  of 
the  old  I'egime  was  after  the  revolution.  The  government  was  not 
responsible  to  these  new  institutions,  the  Soviets,  that  had  grown  iip, 
that  had  emei-ged  with  the  revolution,  institutions  organized  defi- 
nitely on  the  class  Itasis,  councils  of  workmen  and  soldiers  and  coun- 
cils of  peasants. 

In  the  first  proA'isional  government  there  Avas  one  member  who 
Avas  at  the  same  time  the  vice  president  of  the  central  committee  of 
the  Petrograd  council  of  workmen  and  soldiers'  deputies,  which  Avas 
the  first  of  the  councils  to  emerge,  and  that  Avas  Kerensky,  but  he 
was  not  in  there  as  the  representative  of  the  council,  and  he  Avas  not 
technically  responsible  to  the  Soviets.  This  first  proA-isional  govern- 
ment Avas,  therefore,  as  its  name  indicated,  a  provisional  government 
exercising  a  kind  of  supreme  authority.  One  could  hardly  call  it  a 
dictatorship,  but  it  Avas  not  responsible  to  any  legislatiA-e  body.  It 
recognized  the  influence  of  the  Soviets  as  shown  by  the  facts  that 
in  the  second  month  of  the  reA'olution  tAvo  members  of  the  goA-- 
emment  resigned  largely  because  of  the  attitude  and  the  criticisms 
of  their  policies  and  of  their  acts  in  the  Soviets.  The  Soviets  in- 
stituted themselves  as  the  organization  of  what  was  knoAvn  as  the 
reA'olutionary  democracy  of  the  Avorkmen,  of  the  peasants,  and  of 
the  soldiers.  They  did  not  pretend  during  those  first  two  months 
of  the  revolution  to  exercise  political  power  in  the  technical  sense. 


The  resolution  of  the  soviet  executive  council  said  definitely  that 
they  would  support  the  provisional  government  so  long  as  it  clearly 
by  its  policies  showed  it  was  following  a  democratic  line.  The 
soviet  constituted^itself  as  a  land  of  watchdog  over  the  provisional 

After  the  resignation  of  the  two  ministers  of  the  first  provisional 
government,  because  of  the  attitude  toward  them  of  the  Soviets,  the 
question  of  a  frank  coalition  government  in  which  should  be  repre- 
sented members  of  all  parties,  was  taken  up,  and  the  nonsocialists  in- 
sisted on  the  formation  of  what  is  generally  Iniown  as  and  what  was 
specifically  called  in  Eussia  a  coalition  government,  in  which  there, 
should  be  representatives  of  all  parties,  socialists,  nonsocialists.  and 
the  socialist  members  who  were  in  this  coalition  government  were 
also  members  of  the  soviet. 

Again,  it  was  not  a  question  of  their  being  selected  by  the  Soviets, 
elected  from  the  soviet  to  represent  the  Soviets  in  the  government. 
They  merely  recognized  their  personal  responsibility  to  the  soviet. 
and  were  constantly  reporting  to  the  soviet  on  their  policies,  appear- 
ing before  the  Soviets,  justifying  their  measures  before  the  Soviets. 
That  was  the  coalition  form  of  government  that  was  introduced  in 
June.  It  still  called  itself  a  provisional  government,  waiting  for  the 
constituent  assembly  to  determine  the  final  form  of  government  in 
Eussia.  There  were  later  changes  in  the  composition  of  the  pro- 
visional government  at  moments  of  crisis.  At  such  moments  of  crisis 
many  persons  would  resign,  and  thei'e  were  a  whole  series  of  crises 
from  July  on.  Other  membeis  would  be  brought  in.  The  coalition 
idea  was  maintained,  however,  up  to  the  time  of  the  Bolsheviki  coup 
d'etat,  there  being  in  the  provisional  go\'ernment  always  representa- 
tives of  the  two  main  political  groups  or  tendencies,  the  nonsocialists 
and  the  socialists. 

We  could  hardly  speak  of  that  as  a  definite  form  of  government. 
It  was  a  provisional  form  of  government  to  carry  the  country  through 
the  first  months  until  the  constituent  assembly  could  be  convened. 

The  revolution  was  in  March,  1917.  The  date  for  the  convening  of 
the  constituent  assembly  was  fixed  for  September,  1917.  That  date 
was  later  postponed  to  Decembei'.  1917,  the  postponement  being  made 
when  Kerensky,  who  was  prime  minister,  saw  that  it  would  be  impos- 
sible to  conduct  the  election,  not  because  no  preparations  had  been 
made,  but  because  the  economic  organization  of  the  country  had  col- 
lapsed, and  the  war  burdens  and  general  disorganization  of  the  coun- 
try, not  produced  by  the  revolution  entirely,  but  inherited  from  the 
old  regime,  made  it  impossible  to  carry  out  the  reelections  of  local 
goveniment  bodies  which  were  to  take  place  before  the  general  elec- 
tions for  the  constituent  assemlily. 

In  July  and  August  they  started  to  reelect,  under  a  new  law,  the 
local  government  bodies,  the  municipal  councils,  and  what  the  Eus- 
sians  call  their  provincial  councils,  somewhat  similar  to  our  county 
councils,  local  government  in  rural  as  opposed  to  urban  com- 
munities. These  elections  took  place  in  July  and  August.  The  sys- 
tem of  election  was  universal  suffrage,  direct  vote,  proportional  repre- 
sentation. These  new  bodies  were  to  be  elected  on  the  basis  of  elec- 
tion lists  that  were  prepared  during  the  registration  of  those  first 
months.     Then,  one  of  their  first  tasks  was  to  be  the  verification  of 


the  registration  or  election  lists,  so  that  on  the  basis  of  these  verified 
.election  lists  the  election  for  the  constituent  assembly  could  take  place. 

We  often  hear  the  statement  that  the  provisional  government  delib- 
erately postponed  the  convening  of  the  constituent  assembl}'.  I  have 
personally  felt  that  that  statement  was  not  a  correct  statement ;  that 
the  reasons  given  for  postponing  were  perfectly  valid.  The  Kerensky 
government  stated  definitely,  as  I  recall  it,  that  it  would  be  a  mistake 
to  sacrifice  regularity  of  election  in  order  to  have  the  constituent 
assembly  meet  a  little  earlier.  Those  of  us  who  were  there  at  the 
time  saw  the  confusion  of  the  coimtrv,  and  knew  that  \'\'hen  there 
had  been  elections  in  Russia  before  they  had  been  on  a  class  basis, 
the  community  having  been  divided  into  groups;  that  there  never  has 
been  held  a  general  election;  this  was  to  have  been  the  first  general 
election  in  a  country  covering  an  enormous  area  and  a  large  popula- 
tion. Taking  those  facts  into  consideration,  I  think  that  those  of  us 
who  were  there  saw  that  it  was  a  physical  impossibility  to  have  an 
election  earlier,  always  having  in  mind  the  need  for  taking  every 
precaution  for  the  regularity  of  the  elections. 

It  was  just  on  the  eve  of  the  elections  for  the  constituent  assemblj' 
that  the  Bolsheviki  accomplished  their  coup  d'etat.  They  had  pre-, 
viously  advocated  frankly  in  their  papers  the  overthrow  of  the  pro- 
visional government  and  the  jiassing  of  all  power  to  the  Soviets. 
They  were  opposed  to  the  idea  of  coalition,  of  cooperation  between 
the  socialists  and  nonsocialists.  or,  to  use  other  terminology,  be- 
tween the  proletariat  and  the  bourgeois  elements.  Tliey  had  op- 
posed  the  proA'isional  government  on  principle,  and  they  had  at- 
tacked it  specifically  for  certain  policies,  and  they  had  advocated 
that  the  .-oviets  take  over  all  political  authority. 

In  the  summer,  in  the  time  that  I  was  there,  the  Bolsheviki  did  not 
definitely  abandon  the  idea  of  a  constituent  assembly.  It  was  some- 
times rather  diihcult  to  reconcile  their  attacks  on  the  Government  for 
postponing  the  constituent  assembly  with  their  other  statement  that 
all  power  shoukl  pass  to  the  Soviets.  It  would  seem  that  their  idea 
was  to  play  one  against  the  other.  By  November  it  was  evident  that 
they  had  clecided  to  play  the  first  point  of  their  program,  the  taking 
over  of  all  power  by  the  soviet,  and  that  was  what  their  coup  d'etat 
implied.  The  Soviets  were  to  take  over  forcibly  the  government  and 
organize  definitely  a  dictatorship  of  the  proletariat  for  the  iieriod  of 
transition  to  a  new  order  of  society,  what  they  now  call  a  socialistic 
federated  soviet  republic. 

Senator  Overman.  Who  devised  that  scheme?  Was  it  Lenine  or 
Trotsky,  or  more  intelligent  men  than  either  of  them  ? 

Mr.  Harper.  That  would  be  difficult  to  sa}'.  The  two  most  out- 
standing intellectual  forces,  the  two  deepest  thinkers,  the  two  best 
known  because  of  their  records,  are  the  two  luen  Lenine  and  Trotsky, 
men  who  have  been  known  in  Russian  revolutionary  circles  for  a  good 
many  years. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Trotsky  also? 

Mr.  Harper.  Trotsky  also.  He  was  known  as  an  active  and  promi- 
nent participant  in  the  revolution  of  1905,  that  was  referred  to  this 
morning,  and  Lenine  was  prominent  in  the  revolutionary  movement. 
Both  of  the  men,  because  of  conditions  in  Russia,  had  lived  abroad. 
33oth  of  them  were  writers  and  publicists,  had  written  books,  and  had 


contributed  to — I  believe  they  -were  even  editors  of — newspapers, 
organs  representing  the  views  of  the  Russian  socialists. 

The  publications  of  the  Russian  socialists  had  to  be  printed  abroad 
during  the  last  1;)  or  more  years.  There  had  developed  from  a 
verj'  early  period  in  Russian  revolutionary  movements,  from  the 
fifties  of  the  last  century,  what  is  known  as  the  foreign  press  of 
Russia,  publications  in  Russian  published  abroad  but  intended  pri- 
marily for  the  Russian  public,  published  abroad  because  of  censor- 
ship conditions  in  Russia,  smuggled  into  Russia  by  various  methods. 
Lenine  and  Trotslry  were  prominent  participants  in  this  foreign 
literature,  and  all  of  them  debated  and  carried  on  polemics  in  regard 
to  the  government.  And  in  the  congress  of  Russian  socialist  parties 
Lenine  and  Trotsky  were  prominent. 

Senator  Overman.  Did  you  know  Lenine  and  Trotsky? 

ilr.  Harper.  I  did  not  know  Trotskj-  personally.  I  of  course 
know  his  writings,  and  I  heard  him  speak  on  several  occasions  last 
summer.  I  did  not  Imow  Lenine  personall}'.  although  of  course  I 
had  known  of  Lenine  and  of  his  name  as  far  back  as  1905. 

Senator  Overman.  Were  they  peasants? 

Mr.  Harper.  Xo  ;  Lenine  came  from  what  is  generally  translated  as 
the  nobility  class.  That  is  hardly  a  correct  translation.  That  is  the 
class  that  includes  the  landlord  class,  but  it  includes  many  who  are 
not  landlords.  Perhaps  I  could  bring  my  point  out  more  clearly  by 
saying  that  a  man  who  gets  a  university  degree  is  by  that  very  fact 
put  into  the  nobilit}^  class  though  not  hereditary  nobility.  The  fact 
that  he  was  in  the  nobility  class  did  not  mean  that  Lenine  was  a  land- 
lord or  was  sympathetic  with  that  class.  It  meant  that  he  was  not  a 
peasant.  He  was  not  a  workman  who  had  grown  up  from,  the  peas- 
antry, because  a  workman,  in  the  modern  sense  of  the  word,  is  a  com- 
paratively new  phenomenon  in  Russia.  Russia  had  serfdom  until 
1861,  and  before  that  there  was  a  very  small  percentage  of  free  hired 
labor — wage  earners.  He  Avas  not  a  workman,  nor  a  merchant  regis- 
tered as  one  of  the  merchant  guild.  He  was  not  an  artisan.  lie  was 
in  this  other  category,  the  nobility  class. 

Maj.  HrrMES.  Is  it  not  a  fact  that  his  occupation  during  all  his 
life  has  been  as  an  agitator?  You  have  told  us  what  he  was  not. 
What  was  he,  in  other  words? 

Mr.  Harper.  His  brother  was  involved  in  one  of  the  earlier  revo- 
lutionar}'  movements,  and  I  know  this  simply  from  the  accounts  of 
Lenine's  history.  The  fact  of  his  brother's  past  meant  that  he  was 
Avatched  particularly  when  he  was  a  student  in  the  imiversity,  and 
was  subjected  to  police  surveillance  and  sujDervision,  as  a  very  large 
percentage  of  the  university  students  at  that  time  participated  in 
student  demonstrations  against  the  existing  form  of  government; 
sometimes  against  the  very  severe  regulations  with  regard  to  student 
activities  and  student  life.  It  would  seem  that  from  the  very  start  he 
was  not  only  a  socialist,  but  joined  in  the  conspirative  organizations 
that  existed  among  the  radical  element  of  the  Russian  educated 
class — among  university  students  particularly.  He  came  to  grief 
because  of  his  publication  work,  his  writings,  and  had  to  leave.  I 
can  not  give  the  details.  I  believe  he  went  to  Siberia.  Because  of 
his  revolutionary  activities  in  1903,  he  was  one  of  the  well-knoAMi 
thinkers  and  leaders  of  the  Russian  social  democratic  party.    He  was 


living  abroad  because  conditions  in  Kussia  made  it  impossible  for 
him  to  reside  there. 

Maj.  Humes.  Let  me  ask  the  question  in  another  way.  How  did 
he  make  a  living?     Did  he  have  a  competency? 

Mr.  Harpee.  I  presume  he  made  a  living  as  a  writer. 

Maj.  Humes.  That  was  what  I  was  trying  to  get  at. 

Senator  Overman.  What  is  his  racial  extraction? 

Mr.  Harper.  He  is  a  Russian ;  a  Slav. 

Senator  Overman.  What  is  Trotsky? 

Mr.  Harper.  A  Russian  Jew — of  Jewish  origin. 

Senator  Wolcott.  What  is  this  man  Tchictherin  ? 

Mr.  Harper.  Tchitcherin,  the  present  commisar  of  foreign  affairs, 
is  a  Russian  Slav,  also  of  the  nobility  class. 

Senator  Wolcott.  These  three  men  are  all  in  the  nobility  class  ? 

Mr.  Harper.  I  can  not  give  you  the  exact  past  of  Trotslcy.  Legally 
they  were  in  the  nobility  class,  but  that  meant  simply  from  our 
point  of  view  that  they  were  men  of  liberal  education ;  writers. 

Senator  Wolcott.  The  nobility  class,  with  respect  to  them,  simply 
meant  that  they  were  educated  ? 

Mr.  Harper.  Yes. 

Senator  Wolcott.  What  universities  were  they  from  ? 

Mr.  Harper.  I  can  not  tell  you. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Russian  universities  ? 

Mr.  Harper.  Yes. 

Maj.  Humes.  IJ^roceed,  Professor. 

Mr.  Harper.  Shall  I  proceed  on  the  question  of  the  form  of  gov- 
ernment ? 

Maj.  Humes.  Yes. 

Mr.  Harper.  They  established,  in  November,  this  proletariat  dicta- 
torship under  a  definite  program  and  tactics,  to  carry  through  the 
period  of  transition  for  the  establishment  of  the  socialist  federated 
soviet  republic.  The  theory  of  this  soviet  government — the  soviet 
form  of  government,  has  already  been  outlined  bj^  Dr.  Huntington. 
For  the  period  of  transition,  the  bourgeois  class  was  to  have  no  right 
to  vote  in  the  election  of  Soviets,  or  to  be  elected  to  Soviets.  Only 
those  who  labored  were  to  have  a  vote.  That  did  not  exclude  intel- 
lectual thinkers,  men  who  were  in  sympathy  with  the  soviet  idea,  who 
were  ready  to  cooperate  with  the  idea  and  lend  to  the  soviet  their 
intellectual  abilities.  They  were  considered  workers,  but  the  consti- 
tution provided  definitely  that  those  who  derived  income  from  the 
exploitation  of  the  labor  of  others,  or  from  rents  and  profits,  or  in- 
terest, were  to  be  excluded  from  participation  in  the  elections,  and 
were  to  be  excluded  also,  it  was  definitely  stated,  from  being  elected. 

Now,  these  Soviets  were  to  be  local  and  central.  The  country  was 
to  be  .covered  with  a  network  of  Soviets  built  up  from  the  smaller 
units.  The  villages  were  to  elect  Soviets  and  delegates  to  the  dis- 
trict Soviets,  which  were  in  turn  to  send  delegates  to  the  Soviets  of 
the  larger  administration  district,  which  was  to  send  delegates  to  the 
all-Russian  congress  of  Soviets,  which  was  to  meet  at  certain  inter- 
vals. The  constitution  provides  that  it  was  to  meet  at  least  twice  a 
year.  I  believe  since  November,  1917,  there  have  been  six  all-Russian 
congresses  which  have  been  convened  more  frequently  because  of  the 
many  problems  during  the  transition  period.    These  all-Russian  con- 



gresses  of  Boviets  were  to  sit  for  as  long  as  necessary  to  determine  the 
broader  lines  of  policy  of  legislation  on  the  more  important  sides  of 
public  life,  political,  and  economical,  but  they  were  not  to  be  a  per- 
manent assembly.  They  were  only  to  be,  perhaps,  periodically 
convened  policy-making  bodies,  constitution-making  bodies.  They 
were  to  elect  an  executive  committee  which  was  to  sit  permanently 
and  act  as  a  kind  of  permanent  parliament,  which  was  in  constant 

The  executive  committee  was  responsible  to  the  all-Russian  con- 
gress, which  as  I  have  said  was  to  meet  at  least  twice  a  year,  and 
has,  in  fact,  met  more  frequently.  The  executive  conmiittee  is  to 
elect  the  commissars,  or  people's  commissars,  who  correspond  to  the 
heads  of  the  government  departments,  and  the  chairman  of  the 
councils  of  the  people's  commissars,  who  would  in  our  Avestern  par- 
lance be  called  the  prime  minister  of  the  government. 

The  local  Soviets  were  to  be  allowed  considerable  freedom  in  the 
administration  of  local  affairs,  but  they  were  to  follow  in  their  local 
administration  the  principles  established  by  the  resolutions  of  the 
all-Russian  congress  of  Soviets. 

Senator  OvEiniAN.  Did  they  form  a  constitution? 

Mr.  Hakpee.  The  thii'd  congress  drew  up  certain  general  resolu- 
tions for  their  organizations,  and  the  fifth  congress  definitely  voted 
a  ccnstitution.  I  ha\'e  not  seen  that  in  the  original,  but  I  have  seen 
translations  of  that  constitution  which  have  .been  published  in 
America  in  English. 

That  is  the  theory  of  the  soviet  government.  The  champions  of 
that  theory  point  out  that  it  provides  for  participation  in  local 
and  central  affairs  of  the  wcrkers,  the  peasantry,  the  workmen,  and 
(lio^c  who  have  thrown  in  their  lot  with  the  working  class. 

Senator  Overman.  Is  the  soviet  part  of  the  Bolshevik  goveriunent? 
Is  it  one  and  the  same  thing? 

Mr.  Habper.  In  my  opinion,  it  is  one  and  the  same  thing.  Efforts 
have  been  made  to  point  out  that  the  Bolsheviki  are  simply  a  political 
party  as  opposed  to  the  institution  .of  the  Soviets,  and  that  at  the 
present  moment  they  merely  have  the  majority  in  the  local  Soviets 
and  in  the  central  Soviets.  The  parallel  is  often  drawn  that  the  Soviets 
are  like  a  parliament  of  a  western  country,  while  the  Bolsheviki  are 
simply  the  majority  party  in  that  parliament.  But  inasmuch  as  the 
idea  of  turning  over  to  the  Soviets,  all  power  of  organizing  the  coun- 
try on  this  soviet  basis  is  the  Bolshevik  idea,  opposing  the  idea  of 
the  other  socialists'  pai-ties,  and,  of  course,  of  the  bourgeois  parties. 
In  actual  fact  I  do  not  see  what  distinction  can  be  made  between 
the  Bolsheviki  and  the  Soviets.  In  July  of  last  year,  or  June,  dur- 
ing the  summer,  we  had  in  our  American  newspapers  a  report  that 
the  Bolsheviki  had  definitely  by  decree  expelled  from  the  Soviets, 
from  the  central  soviet  or  executive  committee,  and  had  issued  an 
order  of  expulsion  from  the  local  Soviets,  of  all  the  social  democratic 
Mensheviki  and  the  right  social  revolutionaries.  I  have  not  seen  a 
Eussian  paper  describing  this  fact  in  detail,  though  I  have  seen  in 
one  of  the  Russian  papers  published  in  this  country  a  summary  of 
the  account  of  the  meeting  at  which  that  decision  was  made,  and  I 
accepted  the  statements  of  those  persons  that  have  come  out  and  the 


statements  in  this  paper,  as  supporting  the  cable  news  that  we  had 
on  that  point. 

I  state  again  that  the  Bolsheviki  definitely  expelled  from  the  soviet, 
from  the  executive  committee  of  the  soviet,  and  ordered  the  expulsion 
from  their  local  Soviets,  of  the  right  social  revolutionaries  and  of 
the  Mensheviki  social  democrats,  the  pretext  for  the  expulsion  being 
that  the  two  groups  were  counter-revolutionists  and  were  working 
against  the  Soviets,  and  their  presence  therefore  could  not  be  toler- 
ated. In  fact,  they  were  counter  to  a  revolution  of  the  Bolshevist 
brand,  not  the  revolution  of  March,  1917.  One  of  the  general  facts 
that  we  can  accept  is  that  the  right  social  revolutionaries  and  the 
Mensheviki  have  refused  to  go  in  with  the  Bolsheviki,  and  have 
opposed  them,  and  in  view  of  the  expulsion  of  these  members,  because 
of  their  opposition  to  the  program  of  the  Bolsheviki  and  the  use  that 
the  Bolsheviki  have  made  of  the  Soviets,  or  the  way  in  which  they 
have  worked  out  the  soviet  form  of  government,  it  seems  to  me  that 
one  can  not  make  a  distinction  between  the  Soviets  and  the  Bolsheviki. 

Maj.  Httmes.  Well,  doctor j  can  you  outline  from  your  study  of  the 
situation  an  authoritative  opmion  on  the  effect  of  the  practical  appli- 
cation of  the  Bolshevik  government  to  the  life  of  Russia  ? 

Mr.  Harper.  I  left  Eussia,  as  I  said,  in  September,  1917,  before 
the  Bolsheviki  came  into  power.  Inasmuch  as  Russian  political  in- 
stitutions is  my  subject,  I  have  followed  with  the  greatest  care  the 
reports  that  have  come  out,  either  in  our  daily  press,  in  the  cable 
reports,  or  in  articles  contributed  to  our  press  by  men  who  have  come 
out  from  Russia.  I  have  made  it  a  point  to  talk  with  a  great  many  of 
our  Americans  who  have  come  out  of  Russia  or  neutrals  who  have 
come  from  Russia,  and  with  Russians  who  have  come  out. 

There  have  been  two  definite  sets  of  statements  with  regard  to  what 
one  might  call  the  fruits  of  Bolshevism.  I  tried  to  study  as  carefully 
as  possible  those  reports  and,  as  I  say,  check  up  one  statement  against 
the  other.  There  are  these  two  sets  of  statements.  In  a  general  way 
one  group  says  that  the  experiment  is  a  great  success ;  a  success  in  the 
sense  that  it  has  the  support  of  the  workmen  and  peasants ;  a  success 
in  the  sense  that  it  is  solving  the  economic  problems  of  the  country. 
Those  that  make  these  statements  admit  the  great  difficulty  of  the  first 
months  when  there  was  the  disorder,  disorganization;  a  great  deal 
of  it  not  made  by  the  Bolsheviki,  but  the  accumulation  of  a  great 
many  decades  of  shortsighted  policy  of  the  old  regime;  a  good  deal 
of  it  a  result  of  the  war  burdens ;  a  good  deal  of  it  the  inevitable  re- 
sult of  the  revolution  of  March,  1917. 

As  I  say,  the  champions  of  the  success  of  the  experiment  admit 
these  difficulties,  but  insist  that  the  Bolsheviki,  largely  through  the 
support  of  the  workmen  and  peasants,  are  solving  these  problems 
and  are  going  to  be  able  to  start  in,  if  they  have  not  already  done  so, 
on  constructive  work. 

The  other  set  of  statements  gives  a  quite  different  picture.  It 
points  out  the  increase  in  the  economic  disruption  of  the  country, 
and  points  out  the  failure  of  the  efforts  of  the  Bolsheviki  leaders 
to  introduce  constructive  policies.  The  other  set  of  statements  points 
out  the  beginning  of  the  definite  disillusionment  of  the  masses  of 
workmen  and  peasants  with  this  program  that  was  to  bring  them 
to  the  promised  land,  peace,  and  bread. 
S572.'?— 19 7 


As  I  say,  naturally,  I  have  been  confused  by  these  two  conflicting 
reports,  and  have  had  to  weigh  the  one  against  the  other,  taking  into 
account  the  number  that  brought  out  one  set  of  statements  and  the 
number  that  brought  out  the  other. 

Senator  Wolcott.  That  is  the  only  thing  you  have  taken  into 
account,  the  number? 

Mr.  Harper.  Because  of  the  wider  field  of  observation. 

Senator  Wolcott.  And  the  character  of  the  witness? 

Mr.  Harper.  I  took  into  account  the  bias.  If  it  was  a  business 
man,  I  took  that  into  account.  If  it  was  a  man  who  had  been  in- 
terested in  radical  movements,  I  recognized  clearly  that  there  was 
a  spiritual  background  to  the  revolution  and  a  very  definite  back- 
ground to  the  revolution  of  March,  1917,  that  appealed  not  only  to 
the  radical  but  appealed  to  the  liberal. 

So  I  took  into  account  that,  and  took  into  account  of  course  my 
own  knowledge  of  the  earlier  conditions  of  Russia  and  what  I  had 
seen  up  to  September,  1917;  and  without  hesitation,  as  a  student, 
I  have  come  to  accept  the  statements  that,  first,  the  economic  con- 
ditions in  Eussia  have  become  insuperably  worse ;  that  the  workmen 
and  peasants  are  suffering  as  a  result  of  the  further  economic  disrup- 
tion of  the  country;  that  it  is  not  simply  the  bourgeois  that  have 
paid  the  cost  of  what  I  have  considered  an  experiment,  but  that  it 
is  the  workmen  and  peasants  that  are  paying  that  cost,  and  that  they 
are  beginning  to  see  that,  though  this  Bolshevik  program  sounded 
good,  it  has  not  proven  good,  and  they  are  becoming  disillusioned  as 
to  the  soviet  and  the  Bolsheviki. 

Senator  Overman.  What  proportion  of  the  Russian  population  do 
you  think  is  behind  this  Bolshevik  movement? 

Mr.  PIarper.  In  percentages  it  is  rather  difficult  to  say,  for  the 
total  population.  Now  that  the  peasants  have  received  more  land, 
I  do  not  think  they  are  back  of  the  Bolshevik  movement,  the 
political  program,  because  it  has  not  brought  order  or  economic  de- 
velopment. I  have  had  from  a  great  many  people  the  statement  that 
the  peasants  have  definitely  in  certain  districts  kicked  out  the 
Soviets,  even  the  peasants  in  those  districts  that  are  in  the  area 
controlled  from  a  military  point  of  view  by  the  Bolshevik  or  cen- 
tral Soviet;  that  they  have  kicked  out  the  soviet  because  they  did 
not  like  the  way  it  ran  things.  There  was  too  much  graft.  And  the 
peasants  have  gone  back  to  their  former  system  of  an  elected  elder. 
The  resentment  of  the  peasants  toward  the  Bolsheviki  is  of  a  more 
definite  character  in  those  districts  where  the  red  guards  have  gone 
to  the  peasant  villages  to  seize  the  grain.  I  should  sa,j,  on  the  basis 
of  the  information  that  has  come  to  me,  which  I  have  gone  over  very 
carefully,  that  the  larger  percentage  of  the  peasantry  has  gone 
against  the  Bolsheviki.  The  Bolsheviki  recognized  that  the  peasants 
were  interested  first  of  all  in  land,  and  in  their  previous  discussions 
of  how  they  would  act  if  an  opportune  moment  came,  they  definitely 
stated  that  there  would  be  this  peasant  antagonism  toward  their  pro- 
letarian dictatorship,  but  they  definitely  said  that  that  antagonism 
would  be  allayed  by  the  turning  over  of  the  land,  and  they  also  had 
the  definite  idea  of  stirring  up  in  each  village  a  class  war  between 
the  more  prosperous  elements  of  the  village  and  the  poorer  elements 
of  the  village.     In  the  first  decrees  of  the  Bolshevik  government  they 


never  used  tlie  words  "  Government  of  the  workmen."  They  used  the 
expression,  "  The  workmen  and  the  poor  peasants."  They  made  a 
distinction  between  the  more  prosperous  peasants  of  the  community 
and  the  poorer  peasants,  men  who  perhaps  have  no  land  of  their  own 
because  they  had  been  unfortunate  and  were  at  the  bottom  of  the 
economic  scale  in  that  particular  community. 

Senator  Overman.  We  are  trying  to  get  what  is  going  on  in  this 
country.  Do  you  Icnow  anything  of  Bolshevism  in  this  cormtry — any 
movement  in  this  counti'y  for  Bolshevism? 

ilr.  Harper.  May  I  define  Bolshevism  for  myself? 

Senator  Overman.  I  would  like  to  have  it  for  myself. 

Mr.  Harper.  As  I  have  read  the  accounts  with  regard  to  Russia,  and 
talked  with  those  who  have  come  out,  and  heard  speeches  in  regai'd 
to  Eussia  by  those  who  have  come  out,  or  read  the  discussion  of  the 
Russian  problem,  this  word  "  Bolshevism  "  has  been  used,  in  my  be- 
lief, to  represent  two  distinct  things.  It  has  been  used  frequent^  to 
mean  a  state  of  mind.  I  know  before  the  Bolsheviki  came'into  power 
in  Russia,  when  the  Bolsheviki  were  agitating  in  September,  1917,  I 
often  heard  the  expression  "  The  country  is  going  Bolshevist.  There 
is  a  great  deal  of  Bolshevism  in  this  country?' 

Senator  Wolcott.  Speaking  of  this  country? 

Mr.  Harper.  No;  Russia.  There  was  confusion  of  mind  as  to 
how  to  solve  the  many  problems.  And  I  now  read  in  our  papers 
with  regard  to  America,  about  the  spread  of  Bolshevism  in  the 
United  States.  As  I  have  discussed  such  a  point  where  it  has  been 
made,  I  find  that  they  speak  simply  of  confusion  of  mind  as  to 
just  liow  we  are  going  to  solve  the  problems  before  us,  problems  of 
our  own.  prnblcns  with  regard  to  the  reconstruction,  laroblems  with 
regard  to  the  settlement  of  the  war.  In  that  sense  I  believe  there  is 
a  gi-eat  deal  of  Bolshevism  in  the  Ignited  States. 

Senator  Wolcott.  I  want  to  say  that  I  never'  heard  it  used  in 
that  sense,  simply  to  express  the  idea  that  we  do  not  clearly  see  our 
future  ancl  how  we  shall  solve  the  problems  of  the  country. 

Senator  Overman.  Why  not  look  at  it  from  the  way  we  have  been 
treating  it,  the  idea  of  overthrow  of  all  the  governments  of  the 
world:  not  only  the  United  States  but  other  governments  of  the 
world;  chaos? 

Mr.  Harper.  I  have  not  heard,  myself,  any  preaching  of  the  doc- 
trine of  the  Bolsheviki,  the  overthrow  of  the  Government  in  Amer- 
ica, as  I  heard  it  frankly  preached  by  word  of  mouth  and  in  the 
press  in  Russia.  I  have  read  in  their  papers  that  the  experiment  in 
Russia  has  been  very  successful  and  has  been  of  the  greatest  interest 
and  the  greatest  value. 

Senator  Overman.  What  do  you  think  about  it? 

Senator  Wolcott.  About  the  success  of  the  experiment? 

Mr.  Harper.  I  consider  that  it  has  been  a  failure  from  the  point 
of  view  of  the  peasant  and  the  workman ;  that  it  has  not  brought 

Senator  Wolcott.  It  has  also  been  a  failure  from  the  point  of 
view  of  national  obligation — performing  a  national  duty — has  it  not  ? 

Mr.  Harper.  It  meant,  of  course,  the  withdrawal  of  Russia  from 
the  war,  because  it  was  clear  to  such  leaders  as  Kerensky  that  one 
could  not  carry  on  the  foreign  war  and  an  internal  class  war  at  the 
same  time.     That  was  why  Kerensky,  for  example,  stood  for  the 


principle  of  coalition  government  on  principle;  not  simply  be- 
cause of  the  existing  conditions,  but  on  the  principle  of  cooperation 
of  the  groups  of  the  population.  Now,  the  declaring  of  a  class  war 
and  the  putting  into  practice  of  the  principle  of  class  warfare  in- 
evitably would  lead  to  the  withdrawal  of  Russia  from  participation 
in  ithe  war  in  which  Russia  was  then  a  participant. 

Senator  Overman.  Doctor,  we  have  what  we  call  nihilists,  anar- 
chists, I.  W.  W.'s,  socialists,  and  Bolsheviki  in  this  country.  You 
have  heard  of  those  things.  As  a  student  and  as  a  thinker,  do  you 
see  any  relation  between  those  five  organizations? 

Mr.  Haepee.  Nihilists  is  a  name  that  has  been  used  in  a  very  loose 
way  to  apply  to  all  Russian  revolutionists.  There  were  in  Russia 
in  the  sixties,  the  last  century,  a  group  that  were  called  by  another 
person,  by  a  writer,  nihilists.  They  never  accepted  the  name,  but 
they  were  called  by  their  opponents  nihilists. 

Senator  Oveeman.  Did  not  the  Bolshevists  come  from  the  nihil- 

j\Ir.  Harper.  There  is  the  element  of  nihilism  in  the  Bolshe^dki. 
The  nihilists  about  1860  were  the  people  that  had  gone  through  the 
most  oppressi^'e  regime  in  recent  times,  the  police  regime  of  Nicholas 
I,  which  had  created  in  the  younger  generation  the  spirit  of  pro- 
test. The  Russian  writer,  Turgenev,  spoke  of  them  as  "  the  Nihil- 
ists." They  represented  this  protest  against  the  conditions  of  the 
previous  regime,  of  the  previous  reign.  It  was  one  of  the  most  A'io- 
lent  of  the  protests,  but  it  was  in  its  first  stage  an  intellectual  move- 
ment, a  mental  protest.  It  was  only  later  that  it  developed  into  a 
political  movement,  and  many  of  those  who  were  in  the  student  or- 
ganizations which  were  called  by  Turgenev  "  nihilists  "  later  became 
members  of  frankly  revolutionary  political  organizations,  such  as  the 
land  and  liberty.  There  was  a  series  of  political  parties,  revolution- 
ary parties,  with  different  programs,  from  1860  on. 

Senator  Overman.  Is  not  that  all  developed  in  the  Bolsheviki,  the 
protest  and  this  fight  for  the  majority,  a  fight  against  those  that  have, 
to  give  to  those  that  have  not? 

Mr.  Haeper.  There  is  this  element  of  protest  in  Bolshevism;  a 
protest  against  the  existing  order,  the  injustice  of  the  existing  order. 

Senator  Oveeman.  Is  not  that  so  with  tha  I.  W.  W.  ? 

Mr.  Haepee.  Yes. 

Senator  Oveeman.  Is  it  not  so  with  the  socialists? 

Mr.  Haepee.  A  protest  against  the  injustice  of  the  existing  order. 

Senator  Oveejian.  So,  then,  there  is  a  relationship  between  all  five 
of  them,  and  most  of  them  have  the  same  flag? 

jMr.  Haepee.  They  have  the  same  red  flag,  but  they  differ  as  to 
program  and  as  to  tactics. 

Senator  Overman.  They  differ  as  to  many  things,  but  in  basic 
principles  are  they  not  the  same? 

ilr.  Haepee.  They  represent  a  protest  against  what  they  consider 
the  injustices  of  the  present  organization  of  society.  Some  of  them 
go  so  far  as  to  say  that  the  present  form  of  the  organization  of  so- 
ciety can  not  be  corrected,  and  must  be  overthrown  and  replaced  by 

Senator  Oveeman.  The  uniting  of  those  five  great  organizations 
under  the  red  flag  in  this  country — do  you  consider  it  a  menace  ? 


Mr.  Harper.  I  think  the  fact  that  they  use  the  red  flag  does  not 
imply  any  actual  unity.  Many  men  are  socialists  who  are  not  Bol- 
sheriki.  The  Bolsheviki  say  that  a  great  many  socialists  are  not  true 

Senator  Overman.  You  are  a  student  and  a  thinker.  What  is  the 
reason  that  they  all  have  this  red  flag? 

Mr.  Harper.  The  fii'st  of  the  protests  of  this  general  character 
came  in  the  early  half  of  the  last  century.  They  used  the  red  flag.  1 
think  it  is  little  more  than  a  tradition,  and  I  have  always  looked  upon 
the  red  flag  as  not  the  emblem  of  the  Bolsheviki,  the  emblem  of  the 
socialists,  the  emblem  of  the  I.  W.  W.,  but  as  representing  this  men- 
tal protest. 

Senator  O'verman.  Does  it  not  all  at  last  come  down  to  the  idea  of 
revolution  ? 

Mr.  Harper.  The  word  "  revolution "  is  used  with  a  great  many 
qualifying  adjectives,  which  are  sometimes  used  to  express  ideas 
which  it  usually  fails  very  carefully  to  express.  We  have  industrial 
revolutions,  political  revolutions,  and  mental  revolutions. 

Senator  Overman.  Revolution  against  the  Government;  of  course 
that  would  mean  industrial  revolution. 

Mr.  Harper.  Revolution  in  the  sense  of  overthrow  of  the  existing 
form  of  government? 

Senator  Overman.  Yes. 

Mr.  Harper.  I  do  not  think  that  can  be  said.  Many  men'  call  them- 
selves socialists  and  recognize  the  red  flag  as  the  flag  of  socialism, 
which  will  represent  an  effort  to  bring  about  changes  of  an  economic 
and  sometimes  purely  political  character  within  the  existing  political 

Senator  Overman.  What  is  the  I.  W.  W.  ?    What  is  their  idea  ? 

Mr.  Harper.  As  far  as  I  know,  the  program  of  the  I.  W.  W.  is  to 
attempt  by  direct  action  to  bring  pressure  upon  the  existing  authori- 
ties for  changes,  but  within  the  existing  political  system.  I  have  not 
read  I.  W.  W.  literature  definitely  advocating  the  overthrow  of  the 
existing  political  order. 

Senator  Over:.ian.  So  that  you  think  that  there  is  no  connection 
between  them  by  reason  of  the  fact  that  they  have  this  red  flag,  which 
actually  means  a  menace;  no  connection  because  they  use  a  common 


Mr.  Harper.  I  think  there  is  no  connection.  With  regard  to  Rus- 
sia I  can  say  quite  definitely  that  there  are  definite  differences  of 
program  and  tactics. 

Senator  Overman.  You  do  not  think  that  there  is  much  harm  being- 
done  by  the  Bolshevists  in  Russia  ?_ 

Mr.  Harper.  I  do  think  there  is  an  enormous  amount  of  harm, 
being  done  in  Russia.  But  I  consider  that  that  experiment,  this 
venture  tried  on  Russia,  exhausted  by  the  first  three  years  of  the 
war,  has  cost  the  Russian  people  in  wealth,  in  property,  in  values^ 
I  should  say,  and  in  lives,  enormously. 

Senator  Overman.  Have  you  been  over  there  to  observe  the  condi- 
tions of  the  prosperous  ? 

Mr.  Harper.  I  have  not  been  in  Russia  since  September,  1917. 

Ma'j.  Humes.  Doctor,  are  you  familiar  with  any  of  the  representa- 
tions that  are  being  made  in  this  country  by  the  Bolsheviki,  as  to> 

102  BOLSHEVIK  ±-±iu±-AViAiNUA. 

whether  or  not  they  are  true?    In  other  words,  is  there  a  tendency 

or  an  elioit  on  the  part  of  boino  agitatoro  to  inisrcprcsoiit  the  veal 
facts,  in  tlioir  literature  or  in  their  publications  I 

Mr.  Harpek.  It  seoius  to  me  that  a  general  atatenient  without  luiy 
background,  ■without  any  filling  in  of  detailed  facts,  that  the  Bol-lu>- 
vik  experinieiit  hay  lx»en  a  successful  experiment,  or  if  not  entirely 
successful,  is  a  hopeful  experiment,  is  not  a  true  picture  of  what  has 
been  going  on  in  Russia  since  the  Bolsheviki  came  into  power.  Ore 
gets  that  very  general  statement  that  it  is  a  hopeful  experiment,  and 
one  gets  the  more  specific  statement  that  it  has  been  a  suc.essful  ex-- 
periment.  developing  that  general  idea  by  describing  the  election  of 
the  Soviets,  and  not  paying  any  attention  to  the  statements  that  have 
been  published  by  Americans  who  have  come  out,  by  neutrals  who 
have  come  out,  by  Eussians,  as  to  the  methods  used  by  the  Bolsheviki 
to  control  the  elections. 

Senator  "Wolcott.  And  you  say  ynu  do  not  agree  with  those  state- 
ments ? 

Mr.  Haeper.  I  do  not  agree  with  those  statements  on  that  basis. 
In  other  words,  I  accept  the  other  set  of  statements.  It  has  been 
very  difficult  to  decide  between  those  two  sets  of  statements.  As  I 
have  said,  it  was  my  special  study,  and  I  have  devoted  my  time  and 
what  intelligence  I  have  to  the  verification  back  and  forth.  I  give 
it  as  my  personal  opinion,  based  on  a  careful  study,  that  the  set  of 
statements  with  regard  to  the  Bolshevik  experiment,  the  set  of  st;ite- 
ments  that  describe  it  as  having  cost  the  country  enormously  in 
values,  in  lives,  the  set  of  statements  that  state  that  at  last  the 
workmen  and  peasants  have  become  disillusioned,  and  are  opposed 
to  the  soviet  regime  and  the  Bolshevik  regime,  that  set  of  facts  is  the 
one  that  I  have  accepted.  Of  course,  we  have  had  misstatements  back 
and  forth.  We  have  had  a  good  niany  exaggerated  statements  from 
Russia,  '  arried  on  our  cables  to  the  newspapers.  We  have  had  exag- 
gerated statements  or  misstatements  from  both  sides — from  both 

Senator  OxT.nMx^.  You  do  not  think  we  are  getting  the  truth 
abou',  Russia? 

ilr.  Harper.  It  is  difficult,  of  course,  in  view  of  the  chaos,  to  get 
jdl  the  facts. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Is  there  not  one  fact  upon  which  they  all  agree, 
that  the  Bolshevists  have  seized  and  confiscated  property  of  indi- 
viduals and  have  taken  it  over  from  the  people,  and  run  on  a  career 
of  theft  and  robbery  ? 

Mr.  Harper.  According  to  our  conceptions  here  in  this  country,  on 
that  point  there  is  no  difference  of  opinion.  There  is  difference  of 
opinion  as  to  the  extent  of  the  terrorism. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Then,  can  there  be  any  doubt  in  your  mind  that 
that  thing  is  an  abominable  failure,  that  it  is  a  program  of  con- 

Mr.  Harper.  When  I  speak  of  it  as  a  failure,  I  qualify  it  to  this 
extent :  That  it  has  proven  itself  a  failure  for  the  Russian  workmen 
and  the  Russian  peasants. 

Senator  Overman.  You  do  not  agree  with  the  teachings  of  Lenine 
and  Trotsky,  do  you? 

Mr.  Haeper.  I  do  not. 


Maj.  Humes.  Professor,  you  are  familiar  somewhat  with  political 
parties  and  groups  in  Russia.  What  proportion  of  the  Eussian 
socialist  movement  do  the  Bolshevists  represent? 

Mr.  Haepee.  In  June  of  1917,  in  the  first  all-Russian  congress,  the 
Bolsheviki  were  polling  about  20  to  25  per  cent,  on  certain  occasions ; 
on  other  occasions,  less.  That  was  in  the  all-Russian  congress  of 
Soviets.  In  the  Petrograd  soviet,  which  was  composed  of  the  work- 
riien  of  Petrograd  and  the  garrison  soldiers  of  Petrograd,  the  Bol- 
sheviki had  a  majority.  In  Moscow  the  Bolsheviki  were  strong — 
in  the  Moscow  soviet.  We  have,  then,  certain  votes  on  which  to  base 
an  estimate  of  the  strength  of  the  Bolsheviki  as  a  party.  The  elec- 
tion returns  of  the  constituent  assembly  as  a  result  of  the  elections 
held  during  November,  when  the  Bolsheviki  were  in  power,  would 
indicate  that  the  majority  were  against  the  Bolsheviki. 

Maj.  Humes.  Now,  Professor,  we  hear  of  persons  who  are  advo- 
cating Bolshevism  in  this  country,  or  the  recognition  of  the  Bolshe- 
vist government  in  this  country,  insisting  upon  even  a  greater  free- 
dom of  press  and  freedom  of  speech  in  this  country  than  we  now 
have.  Do  they,  in  their  form  of  government,  recognize  the  right  of 
freedom  of  the  press  and  freedom  of  speech,  or  is  it  their  policy  to 
deprive  individuals  of  any  of  their  rights  that  may  be  used  to  inter- 
fere with  their  particular  form  of  government  and  its  activities  ? 

Mr.  Haepee.  They  definitely  state  in  their  constitution  that  during 
the  period  of  transition  they  must  protect  themselves  against  those 
whom  they  have  thrown  out,  and  that  they  can  not  allow  the  use  of 
freedom  of  the  press.  During  the  first  weeks  after  the  Bolshevik  coup 
d'etat  a  great  many  bourgeois  papers  continued  to  come  out — ^a  great 
many  non-Bolshevik  and  nonsocialist  papers  continued  to  come  out. 
I  was  able  to  get  hold  of  many  copies  of  papers  published  in  Novem- 
ber, 1917,  in  which  the  non-Bolshevist  socialists  attacked  the  Bol- 
sheviki and  spoke  of  them  as  adventurers  and  as  traitors,  so  that 
during  these  first  months  the  non-Bolsheviki  could  express  their 
opinion.  But  my  interpretation  of  that  fact  was  that  during  those 
first  months  the  Bolsheviki  did  not  have  time  or  did  not  feel  secure 
enough  to  suppress  freedom  of  the  press.  But  now  in  no  case,  accord- 
ing to  the  constitution,  do  they  allow  the  publication  of  non-Bolshevik 

Senator  Ovekmax.  You  think  they  were  justified  in  that,  do  you 


Mr.  Haepee.  No,  sir. 

Maj.  Humes.  Then  they  are  advocating  free  speech  and  free  press 
in  this  country,  but  are  not  permitting  it  in  their  own  country.  That 
is  the  first  proposition  that  we  can  accept,  is  it  not  ? 

Mr.  Haepee.  They  complain  that  they  are  not  getting  an  oppor- 
tunity to  present  the  facts  of  the  situation  to  the  American  people.  _ 

Senator  Wolcott.  They  complain  more  than  that.  I  read  an  arti- 
cle in  one  of  the  Washington  papers  the  other  night,  in  which  a  man 
was  complaining  that  the  criticism  of  this  meeting  that  was  held  in 
Poll's  Theater  Sunday  night,  I  believe  a  week  ago,  was_a  suppres- 
sion of  free  speech ;  that  the  very  fact  that  they  were  criticized  for 
expressing  their  views  constituted  a  .suppression  of  their  constitu- 
tional right. 

Mr.  Haeper.  I  do  not  follow  the  reasoning. 


Senator  Wolcott.  I  do  not  follow  the  reasoning,  either.  I  think 
it  is  nonsense.  I  am  telling  you  what  they  claim.  They  claim  more 
than  you  stated  a  moment  ago.  If  there  is  anybody  on  earth  who 
ought  to  stand  abuse  and  criticism,  it  is  that  crowd. 

Mr.  Harper.  The  complaint  that  I  have  read  is,  first  that  the  capi- 
talistic press  does  not  publish  certain  facts,  certain  statements  in 
regard  to  what  is  going  on  in  Eussia,  that  come  into  their  hands,  and 
that  they  publish  without  proper  discrimination  all  sorts  of  reports 
coming  from  all  sorts  of  sources  which  are  gross  exaggerations,  as 
proven  by  later  developments. 

I  think  perhaps  that  there  is  no  question  that  we  have  had  in  the 
American  press  a  good  many  misstatements  with  regard  to  Russia. 
Just  for  an  illustration  that  came  to  my  attention,  it  was  called  to 
my  attention  recently  that  a  well  known  Eussian  revolutionary 
leader,  Catherine  Breshkovskaya,  called,  popularly,  "  The  Grand- 
mother of  the  Eussian  Eevolution,"  was  reported  either  killed  or  as 
having  died  in  prison  several  times  in  the  course  of  the  last  year. 
The  other  side  also  reported  with  regard  to  Catherine  Breshkovskaya, 
insisting  that  we  were  not  getting  the  truth  about  Eussia.  They 
insisted  that  the  press  was  simply  sending  these  reports  that  Cath- 
erine Breshkovskaya  had  been  killed,  in  order  to  stir  up  antagonism 
to  the  Bolsheviki.  In  an  article  written  in  a  publication  called  "  One 
Year  of  Eevolution,"  printed  in  November,  1918,  this  other  state- 
ment is  given,  what  the  writer,  Mr.  Nuorteva,  claims  is  the  true  state- 
ment with  regard  to  Catherine  Breshkovskaya.     [Eeading:] 

Catherine  Breshkovskaya  has  never  been  imprisoned  by  the  Soviets.  When 
she  died, — not  of  privation,  but  of  old  age, — the  soviet  government,  although 
she  was  its  opponent  on  many  questions  of  tactics  and  principles,  gave  her  a 
public  funeral  and  hundreds  of  thousands  of  Moscow  workers,  members  of  the 
soviet,  turned  out  to  pay  their  respects  to  "  The  Grandmother  of  the  Russian 

Senator  Wolcott.  Neither  one  of  them  is  right. 

Mr.  Harper.  I  believe  Catherine  Breshkovskaya  is  coming  to 
Washington.  I  had  several  hours'  talk  with  her  in  Chicago  the 
other  day. 

Senator  "Wolcott.  One  said  that  she  was  killed,  and  the  other  said 
she  was  given  a  respectable  funeral  by  the  Soviets,  and  both  are 

Mr.  Harper.  But  on  the  question  of  the  use  of  terrorism,  and  on 
the  question  of  the  confiscation  of  the  property  of  the  bourgeois, 
there  is  no  difference.  There  is  no  difference  of  opinion  between  these 
two  groups. 

Senator  Wolcott.  No ;  that  is  fundamental,  of  course. 

Mr.  Harper.  One  group  will  say  that  it  is  not  against  the  taldng 
over  of  property,  and  admit  that  there  was  a  certain  amount  of  ir- 
regularity which  we  can  characterize  as  looting ;  and  the  other  set  of 
statements,  in  covering  this  question  of  the  confiscation  of  property, 
says  that  it  was  irregular,  mere  seizure,  mere  legalized  loot,  and  that 
in  many  cases  it  was  the  bribe  tliat  gained  temporary  support  for  the 
bolshevist  program  by  workmen  groups,  peasant  groups,  and  some 
soldier  groups. 

Maj.  Humes.  To  summarize  for  a  minute,  professor,  as  I  under- 
stand it  from  your  outline  of  the  present  regime,  we  can  gather  this 
conclusion :  That  in  order  to  maintain  themselves  they  are  conducting 


a  reign  of  terrorism,  keeping  people  in  fear ;  secondly,  they  are  de- 
priving people  of  the  right  of  the  press  and  the  right  of  free  speech, 
and  preventing  them  from  getting  information  as  to  what  is  ac- 
tually going  on;  thirdly,  they  provide  for  a  compulsory  military 
service  for  their  purposes ;  they  provide  force  for  the  disarmament  of 
everyone  that  is  not  in  sympathy  with  their  cause  and  does  not  belong 
to  the  particular  element  with  which  they  are  affiliated,  and  of  which 
they  are  a  part.  Then  to  establish  their  control  further  in  elections, 
they  have  limited  the  right  of  suffrage  as  to  the  persons  who  have 
been  grouped,  so  as  to  prevent  their  overthrow  in  a  popular  election, 
by  way  of  disfranchisment,  have  they  not? 

Mr.  Harper.  Up  to  the  last  statement,  the  last  point,  every  point  is 
supported  by  their  own  decrees  or  by  provisions  in  their  constitution. 

Maj.  Htjmes.  The  last  statement  is  that  they  have,  in  order  to  make 
it  possible  to  control  elections,  disfranchised  a  considerable  element 
of  the  population. 

Mr.  Harper.  By  law  they  have  disfranchised,  of  course,  the  bour- 

Maj .  Humes.  Is  that  all  ?  I  call  your  attention  to  this  provision  of 
their  constitution;  if  this  is  not  disfranchisement  I  would  like  to 
know  what  it  is : 

"  The  following  persons,  even  if  they  should  belong  to  any  of  the  above-men- 
tioned categories,  may  neither  elect  nor  be  elected : 
"  a.  Persons  using  hired  labor  for  the  sake  of  profit." 

That  would  include  anyone  that  had  anyone  in  their  employ  for  the 
purpose  of  conducting  a  business,  as  a  merchant  who  had  a  clerk  in 
his  employ. 

Mr.  Harper.  He  would  be  a  bourgeois. 

Maj.  Humes.  And  the  person  who  had  a  domestic  would  also  be 
deprived  of  the  right  of  suffrage  under  that  provision. 

Mr.  Harper.  He  is  getting  profit  from  the  work  of  that  individual. 

Maj.  Humes.  Wherever  help  is  necessary  to  conduct  a  business,  it 
contributes  to  the  profit,  does  it  not  ?    And  those  people  are 

Mr.  Harper.  Those  would  be  the  bourgeois  classes. 

Maj.  Humes  (reading)  : 

"  Persons  living  on  unearned  increments  such  as :  interest  on  capital,  income 
from  industrial  enterprises  and  property." 

Now,  everyone  that  has  an  unearned  income  is  disfranchised? 
Mr.  Harper.  Yes ;  that  is  what  they  call  the  bourgeois  class. 
Maj.  Humes  (reading)  : 

"Private  traders,  trading  and  commercial  agents;" 

Whom  does  that  include?  That  would  include  all  persons  engaged 
in  any  undertakings  as  the  representatives  of  individual  concerns, 
would  it  not?  The  salesmen  class  would  be  included  in  that,  would 
they  not  ? 

Mr.  Harper.  Yes. 

Maj.  Humes.  Would  not  merchants  be  included? 

Mr.  Harper.  Certainly. 

Maj.  Humes.  All  merchants  are  traders? 

Mr.  Harper.  That  is  directed  against  them. 

Maj.  Humes  (reading) : 

"  Monks  and  ecclesiastical  servants  of  churches  and  religious  euUs." 


^Ir.  Hakpee.  Yes;  it  is  directed  against  them. 

Maj.  Humes.  Well,  then,  the  disfranchised  include  that  element 
of  the  population.  It  also  includes  the  disfranchisement  of  clergy- 
men and  persons  in  the  service  of  the  church,  does  it  not? 

Mr.  Harper.  Yes. 

Maj.  HtJMES.  It  includes  clei'gymen.    Why? 

Mr.  Harper.  I  do  not  know  just  why  they  do. 

Maj.  Humes.  They  would  not  be  comprised  in  the  term  "ser- 
vants ■"  ? 

Mr.  Hari^er.  I  have  never  seen  any  of  their  statements  with  regard 
to  the  clergy  except  that  clause  Avhich  you  have  read,  in  the  accounts 
with  regard  to  Russia,  and  I  do  not  know  what  reasons  they  give  for 

Maj.  HuJiES.  I  do  not  care  about  the  reasons.  We  are  talking 
about  the  application  of  this  thing  and  just  what  they  are  doing. 
That  includes  the  clergymen  and  the  priests  in  the  service  of  the 
church.  That  would  include  even  the  janitor,  under  that  class  that 
the  constitution  here  disfranchises,  would  it  not?  We  have  all  that 
class  eliminated  from  the  Government? 

Mr.  Harper.  As  to  the  question  of  the  janitor,  if  the  house  has  been 
taken  over  by  the  State,  or  by  the  local  soviet,  then  the  janitor  be- 
comes an  employee  of  the  Slate. 

Maj.  HuJiEs.  We  will  disregard  that. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Let  the  janitor  vote. 

jMaj.  Humes.  Yes;  we  will  let  him  vote. 

Senator  Overman.  He  is  about  the  only  man  that  can  vote,  so  far. 

Maj.  HuTNiES  (reading)  : 

"  Employee.'!  and  agents  of  the  former  police,  of  the  special  corps  of  gen- 
darmes and  of  branches  of  secret  police  departments,  and  also  members  of  the 
former  reigning  houst^  of  Kussia." 

Of  course  that  relates  to  those  that  were  connected  with  the  mo- 
narchical form  of  government^ 

Mr.  Harper.  It  says  "  members  of  the  secret  police  and  of  the 
ruling  house."  That  would  not  exclude  necessarily,  on  that  ground, 
the  landlord. 

Maj.  Humes.  But  as  the  landlord  was  receiving  an  income  from 
property,  that  would  exclude  him.  Then,  Mr.  Harper,  it  is  a  fact, 
is  it  not,  that  under  the  Soviet  Eepublic,  instead  of  giving  universal 
suffrage  as  is  proclaimed  from  the  platform  by  many  advocates 
of  bolshevism,  and  b_v  many  newspapers  that  are  supporting  bol- 
shevism,  instead  of  creating  uniA'ersal  suffrage,  instead  of  according 
universal  suffrage  to  persons  over  18  years  of  age,  men  and  women 
alike,  a  very  large  percentage  of  the  population  is  disfranchised, 
is  it  not? 

Mr.  Harper.  They  do  not,  in  the  first  place 

Maj.  Humes.  Just  answer  the  question. 

Mr.  Harper.  A  very  large  percentage. 

Maj.  Humes.  Now,  what  percentage? 

Mr.  Harper.  I  should  say  that  theoretically,  according  to  this 

Maj.  Humes.  It  is  not  theoretical,  it  is  practical.  It  is  the  consti- 


Mr.  Harper.  That  would  exclude  at  least  10  per  cent.  It  would 
not  exclude — the  difficulty  in  answering  that  question  is  because  of 
the  status  ol'  the  peasants  after  this  nationalization  of  the  land.  If 
a  peasant,  as  was  said  this  morning,  had  bought  and  owned  land 

Maj.  Humes.  How  many  peasants  can  operate  any  quantity  of 
land  without  having  hired  help  ? 

Mr.  Harper.  Very  few. 
,  Maj.   Humes.  Then  if  they  have  hired  help  they   are  excluded 
because  of  that  fact,  so  that  would  exclude  all  the  peasants  that  had 
any  considerable  amount  of  land  under  cultivation. 

Mr.  Harper.  That  would  exclude  at  least  10  per  cent  of  the  pop- 
ulation, but  it  would  not  exclude  more  than  20  per  cent  of  the  popu- 
lation. That  is  to  say,  after  this  exclusion,  80  per  cent  of  the  popula- 
tion would  have  the  right  to  vote. 

Senator  Overman.  What  class  would  be  allowed  to  vote? 

Mr.  Harper.  The  peasants,  the  workmen,  and  those  of  the  edu- 
cated class  who  were  not  tillers  of  the  soil  or  workmen  in  the  fac- 
tories but  who  had  thrown  in  their  lot  with  the  workmen  and  the 

Maj.  Humes.  But  how  could  a  man  in  that  class  live  unless  he 
had  some  income  from  interests  or  investments,  or  something  of  that 

Senator  M^olcott.  As  soon  as  he  gets  in  that  class  he  is  disfran^ 
chisecl.  In  other  words,  is  a  man  disfranchised  who  accumulates 
enough  property  to  get  an  education  for  himself:  is  he  at  once  dis- 
franchised by  virtue  of  the  other  clauses  of  the  constitution? 

Mr.  Harper.  Of  course,  they  have  contended 

Senator  Wolcott.  Is  not  that  the  practical  application  of  it  ? 

Mr.  Harper.  They  contend  that  as  thej^  work  out  the  system- 

Senator  Wolcott.  I  am  not  asking  what  they  contend.  I  am  ask- 
ing what  the  facts  are. 

Mr.  Harper.  They  have  given  up  their  property  and  have  become 
-\\  orkers,  and  are  therefore  eligible  to  vote  and  eligible  to  election. 

Senator  Overman.  It  is  a  pretty  good  constitution,  you  think,  do 
you  not? 

Mr.  Harper.  No. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Now  that  industries  are  paralyzed,  where  are 
those  people  working?  There  is  no  work,  and  where  are  they  work- 

Mr.  Harper.  That  question  I  have  often  asked  myself  and  have 
put  to  a  great  many  men  with  whom  I  have  talked.  How  does  the 
country  go  on  ?  You  know  that  the  industries  are  not  working,  that 
the  means  of  transportation  are  breaking  clown.  The  answer  was 
that  there  are  accumulated  goods,  shelter  and  food  on  which  the 
industrial  and  urban  populations  still  manage  to  exist.  The  peasants 
have  sufficient  food  of  certain  kinds.  The  peasants  before  the  indus- 
trial changes  in  Russia  often  supplied  many  of  their  needs,  and  manu- 
factured articles  through  their  household  industries,  and  those  in- 
dustries are  being  developed  so  that  the  peasant  does  manage  some 
way  or  another  to  get  enough  cloth,  and  to  hammer  out  enough  iron 
to  put  ends  on  his  wooden  plows,  and  the  country  is  continuing  to 
exist,  it  is  my  opinion,  on  the  accumulated  goods,  manufactured 
goocls,  and  (On  the  f  oad  and  shelter  that  is  accumulated. 


Senator  Overman.  It  is  a  great  country  over  there. 

jMr.  Harper.  I  have  had  statements  from  several  men  who  left 
there  as  late  as  October  who  said  that  in  view  of  the  conditions  that 
they  saw  in  the  cities,  they  do  not  believe  that  those  urban  centers 
will  be  able  to  avoid  literal  famines  and  epidemics  during  these  win- 
ter months.  Now,  as  to  the  extent  of  these  famines  and  epidemics 
in  the  last  months  we  do  not  know,  because  our  reports  from  Eus- 
sia,  particularly  in  the  last  month,  have  been  very  inadequate.  , 

(Thereupon,  at  5.45  o'clock  p.  m.,  the  subcommittee  ad]'ourned  until 
to-morrow,  Wednesday,  February  12,  1919,  at  10..30  o'clock  a.  m.) 

(The  following  was  subsequently  ordered  inserted  here  in  this 
record,  having  been  handed  in  too  late  for  inclusion  in  the  hearings 
under  Senate  resolution  307:) 

JIayoe  Thompson's  Pledge  to  United  Societies. 

expression  op  views  by  candidate  for  public  office  to  the  united  societies 
fob  local  self-govern  itent. 

The  undersigned  respectfully  represents  that  he  is  a  candidate  for  the  office 
Of  Mayor  on  the  Republican  Ticket  of  the  City  of  Chicago  at  the  election  to  be 
held,  Tuesday  April  6th,  A.  D.  1915. 

That  he  favors  and  will  promote  in  every  way  the  objects  for  which  the 
United  Societies  for  Local  Si^lf-Government  ^vere  organized ;  namely  :  Personal 
Liberty,  Home  Rule,  and  Equal  Taxation. 

That  he  believes  every  citizen  should  be  protected  in  the  full  enjoyment  of 
all  the  personal  rights  and  liberties  guaranteed  him  by  the  Constitution  of  the 
United  States  and  the  State  of  Illinois. 

And,  that  if  elected  Mayor  of  the  City  of  Chicago,  he  will  use  all  honorable 
means  to  promote  such  objects : 

1 :  That  he  will  oppose  all  laws  known  as  "  Blue  Laws  "  and  that  he  espe- 
cially declares  that  he  is  opposed  to  a  closed  Sunday,  believing  that  the  State 
Law  referring  to  Sunday  closing  is  obsolete  and  should  not  be  enforced  by  the 
City  Administration.  And  that  he  is  opposed  to  all  ordinances  tending  to  cur- 
tail the  citizens  of  Chicago  in  the  enjoyment  of  their  liberties  on  the  weekly 
day  of  rest. 

2 :  That  he  is  in  favor  of  "  Special  Bar  Permits  "  until  three  o'clock  A.  M., 
being  issued  by  the  City  of  Chicago  to  reputable  societies  or  organizations  for 
the  purpose  of  permitting  such  societies  to  hold  their  customary  entertainments. 

3 :  That  as  mayor  he  will  use  his  veto  power  to  prevent  the  enactment  of  any 
ordinance  which  aims  at  the  abridgment  of  the  rights  of  personal  liberty  or  is 
intended  to  repeal  any  liberal  ordinance  now  enacted,  especially  one  repealing 
or  amending  the  "  Special  Bar  Permit  "  ordinance  now  in  force. 

4:  That  he  will  oppose  the  further  extension  of  the  Prohibition  Territory 
within  the  City  Limits,  unless  such  extension  is  demanded  by  a  majority  of  the 
residents  in  a  district  in  which,  at  least,  two-thirds  of  the  building  lots  arc 
improved  with  dwelling  houses. 

5 :  That  he  is  unalterably  opposed  to  having  the  Anti-Saloon  Territory  Law 
extended  to  the  City  of  Chicago. 

6:  I  hereby  declare,  that  I  have  not  signed  the  pledge  of  the  Anti-Saloon 
League,  any  other  so-called  "  Reform-Organization  "  and  have  not  given  any 
pledge  to  any  newspaper. 

Chicago,  March  —  A.  D.  1915. 

(Name)     Wm.  Hale  Thompson, 

(Address)     3200  Sheridan  Rd. 

Received  and  placed  on  file,  iNIurch  20th,  1915. 

Aman  Beennan, 
Se<yretary  of  the  United  Societies  for  Local 

Self-Government  and  the  Liberty  League. 



United  States  Senate, 
stnbcommittee  of  the  committee  on  the  judiciary, 

Washington,  D.  C. 
The  subcdmniittee  met,  pursuant  to  adjournment,  at  10.45  o'clock 
a.  m.  in  room  226,  Senate  Office  Building,  Senator  Lee  S.  Overman 

Present:  Senators  Overman  (chairman),  King,  Wolcott,  Nelson, 
and  Sterling. 

Senator  Oveesian.  Maj.  Humes,  whom  do  you  desire  the  commit- 
tee to  hear  this  morning  ? 

Maj.  Humes.  We  would  like  the  committee  to  hear  Mr.  Simons. 


(The  witness  was  sworn  by  the  chairman.) 

Maj.  Humes.  Doctor,  where  do  you  reside? 

Mr.  Simons.  At  the  present  time,  in  the  parsonage  of  the  Washing- 
ton Square  Methodist  Episcopal  Church,  121  West  Fortieth  Street, 
New  York  City,  of  which  church  I  am  pastor. 

Maj.  Humes.  When  did  you  return  from  Russia? 

Mr.  Simons.  On  October  6,  1918. 

Maj.  Humes.  In  what  work  were  you  engaged  in  Russia? 

Mr.  Simons.  As  superintendent  of  the  Methodist  Episcopal  Church 
in  Petrograd,  Russia. 

Maj.  Humes.  For  how  long  a  period  of  time  had  you  been  in 
Russia  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  Since  the  fall  of  1907. 

Maj.  Humes.  Now,  Doctor,  this  committee  desires  to  secure  infor- 
mation with  reference  to  conditions  in  Russia  and  the  practical  op- 
eration of  the  existing  government  in  Russia.  If  you  would  prefer 
in  your  own  way  to  go  ahead  and  make  a  statement  of  those  facts,  you 
may  proceed  in  that  way. 

Mr.  Si3roNS.  I  think  you  better  ask  me  some  of  the  main  questions 
in  your  mind,  and  then,  as  I  find  that  there  are  things  necessary  to  be 
'elaborated,  I  will  give  you  whatever  data  I  have  at  my  disposal. 

M'aj.  Humes.  Well,  JDoctor,  were  you  in  Petrograd  at  the  time  of 
the  March  revolution  ? 

Mrr  Simons.  I  was. 

Maj.  HuJiES.  What  was  the  nature  of  the  revolution?  Was  it  a 
socialistic  revolution? 

Mr.  Simons.  You  are  referring  to  the 

Maj.  Humes.  The  so-called  Kerensky  revolution. 

Mr.  Simons.  That  is,  of  the  winter  of  1917? 

Mai.  Humes.  Yes. 


Mr.  Simons.  I  received  the  impression  that  it  was  partly  socialistic. 
It  started  with  large  parades  of  workingmen  clamoring  for  bread 
when  most  of  them  were  getting  not  only  sufficient  bread  but  more 
than  enough,  and  the  object  of  all  that,  so  most  of  us  understood,  ^Yas 
to  bring  on  a  revolution.  Of  course,  Rasputin  had  been  already  put 
out  of  the  way. 

Senator  Wolcott.  By  the  way,  he  was  a  monk,  was  he  not  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes ;  a  very  illiterate  man ;  uncouth ;  rough. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Was  he  supposed  to  be  a  German  agent  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  We  have  had  all  kinds  of  statements  about  Easpiitin 
having  been  a  pro-German,  and  the  Czarina  being  pro-German.  I 
have  no  direct  evidence,  but  the  people  that  claimed  that  both  the 
Czarina  and  Rasputin  were  pro-German  are  well  qualified  to  stand 
as  truth-loving  persons.  Some  of  them  are  well-known  editors;  and 
some  of  the  finest  people  that  I  have  become  acquainted  with  in  Rus- 
sia maintained  that  the  Czarina  and  Rasputin  both  were  pro-German. 

Senator  Xelson.  "Were  you  then  at  Petrograd  when  he  was  killed? 

Mr.  SiJioxs.  I  was. 

Senator  Xelson.  As  I  understand  it,  he  was  inveigled  to  the  house 
of  a  certain  member  of  the  royal  family,  a  prince  somebody — I  can 
not  think  of  his  name — and  there  he  was  killed. 

ilr.  Simons.  Yes;  certain  members  of  the  Russian  nobility  assassi- 
nated him. 

Senator  Xelson.  The  man  to  whose  house  he  was  inveigled  and 
killed  was  connected  either  by  blood  or  marriage  with  the  royal 
family,  as  I  understand  it. 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes. 

Maj.  Humes.  Well,  Doctor,  after  this  re\olution  was  successful, 
what  was  the  condition  in  Russia  up  to  the  time  of  the  November 
revolution  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  Under  the  provisional  government  it  was  quite  ap- 
parent that  different  political  groups  were  working  with  might 
and  main  to  get  the  upper  hand,  and  they  had,  roughly  speaking, 
over  20  different  political  groups.  I  have  a  document  which  came 
out  at  the  time  of  the  Bolsheviki  revolution,  showing  the  program 
of  the  various  parties.  I  had  it  translated  and  copies  of  the  transla- 
tion given  to  our  embassy  in  Petrograd,  and  also  our  consulate,  and 
one  copy  was  sent,  I  think,  to  the  Department  of  State  in  Washing- 
ton, as  I  recollect.  Very  near  the  end  of  this  list  of  groups  we  found 
the  Bolsheviki,  as  they  call  them.  I  have  the  thing  here,  and  have 
gone  through  it,  and  it  simply  bears  out  the  statement  which  has 
been  made  in  many  books  on  Russia  and  the  Russians,  that  when 
you  have  a  thousand  Russians  the  chances  are  that  you  M-ill  have  at 
least  one  hundred  different  groups  among  these  Russians. 

I  have  spoken  with  people  who  have  traveled  widely  in  Russia, 
even  in  religious  circles,  and  they  say  it  is  very  amusing  that  ifi  one 
village  of  a  thousand  people.  Baptists  Sectanti,  they  have  not  less 
than  twelve  different  Baptist  groups.  It  is  a  peculiarity  r>i  the 
Russian  mind  and  psychology,  and  it  is  my  contention  that  if  there 
had  not  been  such  a  large  number  of  political  parties  Kerensky  might 
have  won  the  day  with  a  provisional  government. 

Soon  after  we  noticed  a  pro-German  current  quite  marked 

Senator  Wolcott.  Soon  after  when? 


^Ir.  Simons.  After  the  great  revolution  of  the  winter  of  1917. 

Senator  Wolcott.  In  March? 

Mr.  Simons.  Let  us  say  it  made  itself  felt  within  two  months.  I 
can  not  tell  you  just  when  Trotsky  and  Lenine  came  in.  I  have  no 
data  here. 

Senator  Wolcott.  You  speak  of  the  revolution  of  the  winter  of 
1917.  We  had  it  referred  to  yesterday  as  of  March,  1917.  Is  that 
what  YOU  mean  by  the  winter  of  1917,  along  about  March? 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes. 

Senator  Wolcott.  I  did  not  want  any  confusion  in  the  time. 

Mr.  Si3ioNS.  They  had  the  old  calendar  system  there,  which  is  13 
days  behind  ourg. 

Senator  Nelson.  It  culminated  in  March? 

Mr.  SiMoxs.  Yes;  the  new  style,  I  should  say.  We  then  soon 
noticed  that  whereas  at  the  beginning  of  the-  so-called  new  regime 
there  was  a  disposition  to  glorify  the  allies  and  to  make  a  great  deal 
of  what  the  French  Revolution  had  stood  for;  within  from  six  to 
eight  weelis  there  was  an  undercurrent  just  the  opposite,  and  things 
began  to  loom  up  in  a  pro-German  Avay. 

I  could  not  bring  any  of  my  papers  that  we  had  collected  over 
there  along,  because  everything  .was  examined  as  we  passed  the 
border — the  Russian- Finland  border — last  October,  but  in  our  church 
archives  we  have  all  these  papers,  and  we  have  saved  every  scrap; 
and  I  think  at  least  50  of  my  friends  have  collected  data  for  us. 

Senator  Nelson.  Let  me  call  your  attention  to  this.  Was  it  not 
one  of  the  first  acts  of  ^^hat  we  call  the  Kerensky  government  to  issue 
a  general  pardon  to  offenders? 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  And  did  not  that  result  in  bringing  back  Lenine 
from  Siberia? 

Mr.  Simons.  Lenine,  as  you  recall,  did  not  come  from  Siberia, 
but  came  from  another  part  of  Europe,  passing  through  Germany. 

Senator  Nelson.  But  he  Tiad  been  gent  to  Siberia  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  He  had  been  sent  to  Siberia  either  as  a  convict, 
or  had  been  deported,  and  he  came  back  by  way  of  Switzerland  and 

Mr.  Simons.  Well 

Senator  Nelson.  Do  you  not  know  that? 

Mr.  Simons.  We  knew  that  he  came  from  Switzerland. 

Senator  Nelson.  With  German  passports? 

Mr.  Simons.  With  German  passports,  and  the  Germans  expe- 
dited his  transit,  and  the  exit  of  those  who  came  into  Russia  at  the 
time  when  this  movement  had  already  been  under  way. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Which  movement  had  been  under  way? 

Mr.  Simons.  The  movement  which  became  known  as  the  Bol- 
shevik movement. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Well,  you  do  not  mean  that  he  came  in  after 
this  pro-German  undercurrent  had  developed  ?  Did  he  come  after 
the  appearance  of  that  pro-Germanism,  or  before? 

Mr.  Simons.  He  came  while  that  thing  was  growing. 

Senator  Wolcott.  And,  of  course,  he  did  not  try  to  stop  it  any, 
did  he? 


IMr.  SisroNs.  Kerensky  was  spending  a  good  deal  of  his  time  run- 
ning up  and  down  the  front,  trying  to  hearten  the  B,u=;sian  soldiers 
in  their  warfare,  and  he  was  generally  accredited  with  being  a  fine 
orator  and  doing  splendid  work,  and  I  do  not  doubt  but  what  he 
did  manage  to  keep  the  men  longer  than  they  otherwise  would  have 
stayed  in,  but  we  were  told  there  were  hundreds  of  agitators  who 
had  followed  in  the  trail  of  Trotsky-Bronstein,  these  men  having 
come  over  from  the  lower  East  Side  of  New  York.  I  was  sur- 
prised to  find  scores  of  such  men  walking  up  and  down  Xevslty. 
Some  of  them,  when  they  learned  that  I  was  the  American  pastor 
in  Petrograd,  stepped  up  to  me  and  seemed  very  much  pleased  that 
there  was  somebody  who  could  speak  English,  and  their  broken  Eng- 
lish showed  that  they  had  not  qualified  as  being  real  Americans; 
and  a  number  of  these  men  called  on  me,  and  a  number  of  us  were 
imjDressed  with  the  strong  Yiddish  element  in  this  thing  right  from 
the  start,  and  it  soon  became  evident  that  more  than  half  of  the  agi- 
tators in  the  so-called  Bolshevik  movement  were  Yiddish. 

Senator  Nelsox.  Hebrews? 

Mr.  Siiiox'.s.  They  were  Hebrews,  apostate  Jews.  I  do  not  want 
to  say  anything  against  the  Jews,  as  such.  I  am  not  in  sympathy 
with  the  anti-Semitic  movement,  never  have  been,  and  do  not  ever 
expect  to  be.  I  am  against  it.  I  abhor  all  pogroms  of  whatever 
kind.  But  I  have  a  firm  conviction  that  this  thing  is  Yiddish,  and 
that  one  of  its  bases  is  found  in  the  East  Side  of  New  York. 

Senator  Nelson.  Trotsky  came  over  from  New  York  during  that 
summer,  did  he  not? 

Mr.  Simons.  He  did. 

Senator  O^teehiax.  You  think  he  brought  these  people  with  him? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  am  not  able  to  say  that  he  brought  them  with  him. 
I  think  that  most  of  them  came  after  him,  but  that  he  was  responsible 
for  their  coming. 

Senator  Over Ji an.  Do  you  know  whether  the  Germans  furnished 
them  any  money  to  come? 

Mr.  Simons.  It  was  generally  understood  that  Lenine  and  Trotsky 
had  been  financed  by  the  German  Imperial  Government.  Docu- 
ments were  afterwards  issued  showing  that  these  leaders  of  the 
Bolshevik  movement  had  received  German  funds.  Mr.  Nicholas  A. 
Zorin,  a  personal  friend  of  mine,  who  is  the  vice  president  of  the  so- 
called  society  for  promoting  mutual  friendly  relations  between  Eus- 
sia  and  America,  worked  out  a  treatise,  as  he  called  it,  showing  that 
the  German  Imperial  Government  was  backing  this  thing,  and  he 
had  gotten  hold  of  certain  documents,  and  he  issued  this  thing 
privately,  and  scores  of  copies  were  sent  to  us  for  distribution. 
These  were  mimeograph  copies.  I  could  not  bring  one  over  with  me, 
but  I  suppose  the  contents  of  his  treatise  are  kno'\^■n  to  the  State 
Department,  because  I  handed  copies  to  our  embassy  and  our 

Senator  Nelson.  Have  you  got  copies  yourself,  at  home? 

Mr.  Simons.  No;  I  did  not  dare  to  bring  that  across  the  border, 
because  it  might  incriminate  me. 

Senator  Nelson.  We  ought  to  get  that  document  and  put  it  in 
the  record. 


Mr.  Simons.  I  think  you  will  find  a  copy  in  the  Russian  division, 
of  the  State  Department.    I  am  pretty  sure  they  have  one. 

Senator  Overman.  It  would  be  a  very  remarkable  thing  if  the 
Bolshevik  movement  started  in  this  country,  financed  by  Germans, 
would  it  not? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  do  not  think  the  Bolshevik  movement  in  Russia 
would  have  been  a  success  if  it  had  not  been  for  the  support  it  got 
from  certain  elements  in  New  York,  the  so-called  East  Side. 

Maj.  Humes.  Doctor,  you  have  referred  to  Lenine  coming  from 
Siberia  through  Switzerland.  Is  it  not  a  fact  that  Lenine  went  from 
Siberia  to  Switzerland  about  the  time  or  shortly  before  the  out- 
break of  the  European  war  in  1914,  and  Avas  in  Switzerland  from 
that  time  up  until  the  time  he  returned  to  Russia? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  have  not  paid  particular  attention  to  that  phase  of 
Lenine's  career.  I  only  know  he  was  given  the  privilege  by  the 
German  Imperial  Government  to  have  a  hasty  transit  through  Ger- 
many, and  that  they  evidently  seemed  to  be  very  anxious  to  get  him 
as  quickly  as  possible  over  to  Russia. 

May  I  state  at  this  juncture  that  before  the  outbreak  of  the  war — 
that  is,  before  Russia  entered  into  the  war — we  were  apprised,  and 
it  is  a  fact,  that  hundreds  of  thousands  of  rubles  had  been  put  at  the 
disposal  of  certain  labor  leaders  in  St.  Petersburg,  as  it  was  then 
known,  to  create  a  strike  in  the  factories.  A  large  number  of  fac- 
tories in  Petrograd,  as  well  as  in  Moscow  and  other  parts  of  Russia 
near  these  large  centers,  have  been  controlled  by  British  and  Ger- 
man capital.  It  was  apparent  at  that  time  that  Germany  was  trying 
to  cripple  Russia  economically  by  getting  her  into  the  throes  of  an 
awful  strike.  I  have  spoken  with  men  who  were  high  up  in  official 
life  in  Petrograd,  and  they  said  they  had  proofs.  The  thing  after- 
wards came  out  in  the  Russian  press,  and,  of  course,  there  was  a 
very  strong  anti-German  feeling  there  as  the  result  of  that.  Well, 
that  strike  did  not  prove  successful  because  the  old  regime  had  so 
much  power  that  it  succeeded  in  squelching  it. 

I  have  noticed  again  and  again  in  Russia  that  there  is  a  strong 
German  element  there.  I  gave  a  copy  to  our  ambassador.  Gov. 
Francis,  of  a  so-called  German  yearbook  which  was  suppressed,  as 
well  as  a  German  daily  newspaper,  the  oldest  newspaper,  so  they 
claim,  in  all  Russia,  which  was  suppressed  soon  after  Russia's  en- 
trance into  the  war,  and  when  the  Bolsheviki  came  into  power  all 
these  things  were  started  up  again.  German  papers  were  not  only 
published,  and  everything  that  was  German  and  pro-German  fos- 
tered, but  we  also  knew  that  at  the  outbreak  or  before  the  outbreak 
of  the  Bolshevik  revolution  of  October,  1918,  there  were  several  Ger- 
man officers  in  the  seat  of  the  Smolny  government,  so  called. 

There  were  two  institutes « that  had  that  name,  and  one  of  the 
buildings  Lenine  and  Trotzky  and  their  forces  took  even  while 
Kerensky  and  the  provisional  government  were  governing,  and  one 
of  the  oldest  teachers  in  the  Smolny  Institute  had  occasion  to 
come  over  to  the  building  where  the  Bolsheviki  now  had  their 
guns,  doing  their  work  of  propagandizing  the  Russian  j)roletariat. 
She  is  a  lady  over  50  years  of  age,  and  had  been  teaching  in  the 
Smolny  Institute,  I  presume,  over  20  years,  and  has  been  attending 
our  church  for  about  10  years,  and  is  related  to  some  of  the  most 


distinguished  Eussians.  She  came  to  see  me  and  said,  "  I  have  had 
an  opportunity,  because  of  being  a  teacher  in  the  Smolny  Insti- 
tute, to  visit  certain  rooms  in  the  building  now  occupied  by  the  so- 
called  Bolshevik  government.  I  have  seen  with  my  own  eyes  Ger- 
man officers  sitting  at  the  long  table  around  which  sat  the  leaders 
of  the  Bolshevik  movement.  I  have  heard  German  spoken  there. 
Because  they  believed  in  me  I  have  had  the  privilege  of  passing 
through  certain  rooms,  having  to  take  certain  things  over  for  our 
teachers  and  our  pupils,  and  what  not,  and  several  times  I  have 
noticed  German  documents  on  the  table,  with  the  German  stamp''; 
and  one  time  she  told  me  that  she  had  become  impressed  by  one  thing 
in  the  Smolny  Institute,  that  more  German  was  being  used  there 
than  Russian.  It  may  be  she  heard  Yiddish,  because  Yiddish  is 
partly  German.  It  seems  strange  to  me,  but  when  you  talk  with  the 
average  man  from  the  lower  East  Side  he  is  not  going  to  speak 
English  or  Russian,  but  he  is  going  to  speak  Yiddish.  It  may  be 
that  she  heard  Yiddish  and  thought  that  she  heard  German;  but 
anyway,  that  was  her  testimony. 

Senator  Nelson.  The  Yiddish  language  is  distinct  from  the  He- 

Mr.  Simons.  It  is  German.    It  is  a  mistum  compositum. 

Senator  Nelson.  It  is  a  mixture  of  Hebrew  and  German,  is  it  not? 

Mr.  SiMONSif  There  are  some  Slavic  terms,  some  Russian,  and  somB 
Polish  iii  it,  and  it  may  have  some  English,  too.  The  Yiddish  that 
is  spoken  on  the  East  Side  of  New  York  has  ever  so  much  of  the  Eng- 
lish in  it,  and  the  Yiddish  that  is  spoken  in  Petrograd,  Moscow,  War- 
saw, and  Odessa,  would  have  quite  a  lot  of  Russian  in  it. 

Senator  Overman.  This  institute  was  the  nest,  the  beginning,  of 
this  government,  was  it  not?    That  was  where  it  started,  was  it  not? 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes. 

Senator  Wolcott.  You  have  made  one  statement  here  which  to  me 
is  very  interesting,  largely  because  it  may  be  intensely  significant. 
Some  time  back  in  your  testimony  you  said  that  it  was  your  con- 
tention that  if  it  were  not  for  these  elements  that  had  come  from 
the  East  Side  of  New  York  City,  the  Bolsheviki  movement  would 
have  been  a  failure.  That  to  me  is  very  interesting,  because  if  it  is 
true  it  is  very  significant.  There  are  many  people  in  this  country,  I 
think — I  am  sure  there  are  many  people— ^who  rather  look  upon  this 
Bolsheviki  movement  as  just  a  passing  fad,  and  of  no  deep  signifi- 
cance ;  but,  of  course,  if  the  success  of  this  monstrous  thing  m  Russia 
is  due  to  the  men  who  came  out  of  New  York  City,  then  this  country 
has  not  anything  to  deal  with  that  is  trifling,  at  all. 

Now,  because  of  the  very  significance  of  that,  can  you  tell  us  any- 
thing in  the  way  of  detail  that  leads  you  to  the  conviction  that  the 
presence  of  these  East  Side  people  in  Russia  contributed  to  the  suc- 
cess of  the  Bolsheviki  movement  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  The  latest  startling  information,  given  me  by  some 
one  who  says  that  there  is  good  authority  for  it — and  I  ani  to  be 
given  the  exact  figures  later  on  and  have  them  checked  up  properly 
by  the  proper  authorities — is  this,  that  in  December,  1918.  in  the 
northern  community  of  Petrograd,  so-called — that  is  what  they  call 
that  section  of  the  Soviet  regime  under  the  presidency  of  the  man 
known  as  Mr.  Apfelbaum — out  of  388  members,  only  16  happened  to 


be  real  Russians,  and  all  the  rest  Jews,  with  the  exception  possibly 
of  one  man,  who  is  a  negro  from  America,  who  calls  himself  Prof. 
Gordon,  and  265  of  the  members  of  this  northern  commune  govern- 
ment, that  is  sitting  in  the  old  Smolny  Institute,  came  from  the  lower 
East  Side  of  New  York — 265  of  them.  If  that  is  true,  and  they  are 
going  to  check  it  up  for  me — certain  Eussians  in  New  York  who  have 
been  there  and  investigated  the  facts — I  think  that  that  fits  into  what 
you  are  driving  at.  In  fact,  I  am  very  much  impressed  with  this,  that 
moving  around  here  I  find  that  certain  Bolsheviki  propagandists  are 
nearly  all  Jews — apostate  Jews.  I  have  been  in  the  so-called  People's 
House,  at  7  East  Fifteenth  Street,  New  York,  which  calls  itself  also 
the  Rand  School  of  Social  Science,  and  I  have  visited  that  at  least 
six  times  during  the  last  eleven  weeks  or  so,  buying  their  literature, 
and  some  of  the  most  seditious  stuff  I  have  ever  found  against  our 
own  Government,  and  19  out  of  every  20  people  I  have  seen  there  ha^e 
been  Jews. 

And  as  I  move  around  to  give  my  lectures,  usually  I  am  pursued  by 
Bolsheviki  propagandists,  and  in  one  big  church  in  New  York  I  was 
interrupted,  on  the  east  side  of  the  church — it  so  happened  that  they 
were  sitting  on  the  east  side  of  the  church — by  two  Bolsheviki  agita- 
tors. I  suppose  they  were  agitators  because  they  tried  to  agitate 
while  I  was  giving  my  lecture  on  Russia,  and  they  grumbled  and 
growled,  and  the  assistant  pastor  stepped  up  to  them  and  tried  to 
calm  them,  and  they  instantly  remarked  to  him — I  hate  to  repeat  it,. 
but  if  you  want  to  know  I  will  tell  you — "  Everything  that  man  says 
is  a  damn  lie."  When  the  pastor  assured  them  that  that  language 
was  not  quite  proper  in  the  church,  and  so  on,  and  asked  them  to 
speak  with  the  speaker  himself  afterwards,  they  said  it  was  no  use 
speaking  with  him,  "  He  knows  nothing.  But  this  book  will  tell  you 
all  about  the  thing,  and  give  you  the  truth,"  and  they  handed  him 
this  book  bj'  Albert  Rhys  Williams,  "  76  Questions  and  Answers  on 
the  Bolsheviki  and  Soviets,"  and  he  turned  it  over  to  me. 

On  several  other  occasions  men  have  tried  to  disturb  our  meetings^ 
using  this  pamphlet  of  Williams. 

I  have  analyzed  certain  questions  and  answers,  especially  with  re- 
gard to  this  paragraph  on  religion,  and  I  have  no  doubt  in  my  mind 
that  the  predominant  element  in  this  Bolsheviki  movement  in  America 
is,  you  may  call  it,  the  Yiddish  of  the  East  Side. 

Senator  Wolcott.  You  said  that  you  met  many  of  these  New  York 
East  Siders  on  the  streets  in  Petrograd,  did  you  not? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  met  a  number  of  them  on  the  Nevsky  Prospect  in 
Petrograd,  yes;  and  spoke  with  them,  and  a  number  of  them  have 
visited  me. 

Senator  Wolcott.  That  was  how  long  ago  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  That  was,  I  should  say,  well,  along  in,  I  think,  June- 
and  July.  I  have  all  these  things  checked  up  over  in  Petrograd,  but 
they  are  put  away  in  a  trunk  just  now  in  the  embassy,  so,  of  course,. 
if  i  do  not  strike  a  date  right 

Senator  Wolcott.  Approximately. 

Mr.  Simons.  I  should  say  it  was  just  before  they  made  their  first 
attempt  in  July,  1917,  to  oust  Kerensky,  but  he  had  enough  strength 
to  put  them  down. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Are  you  able  to  say  whether  or  not  the  appear- 
ance of  these  East  Side  New  Yorkers,  these  agitators,  was  a  sudden; 


appearance  there ;  did  they  seem  to  come  all  at  once,  a  flock  of  them, 
so  to  siJeak,  or  had  they  been  around,  but  just  started  to  talk^ 

iNIr.  SiJioxs.  I  was  impressed  with  this,  Senator,  that  shortly  after 
the  great  revolution  of  the  winter  of  1917  there  were  scores  of  Jews 
standing  on  the  benches  and  soap  boxes,  and  wliat  not,  talking  until 
their  mouths  frothed,  and  I  often  remarked  to  my  sister.  "  "Well,  what 
are  we  coming  to,  anyway?  Tliis  all  looks  so  Yiddish."  Up  to  that 
time  we  had  very  few  Jews,  because  there  was,  as  you  may  know,  a 
restriction  against  having  Jews  in  Petrograd ;  but  after  the  revolution 
thev  swarmed  in  there,  and  most  of  the  agitators  happened  to  be 
Jews.  I  do  not  want  to  be  unfair  to  them,  but  I  usually  know  a  Jew- 
when  I  see  one. 

Senator  Overman.  You  mean  they  are  apostate  Jews  ? 

^Ir.  Simons.  Apostate  Jews;  yes. 

Senator  Wolcott.  You  mean  Christianized  Jews? 

Mr.  Simons.  No,  sir. 

Senator  Wolcott.  What  do  you  mean  by  the  term  ''  apostate  "  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  An  apostate  Jew  is  one  who  has  given  up  the  faith  of 
his  fathers  or  forefathers. 

Senator  Wolcott.  But  he  lias  not  accepted  any  other  ? 

JMr.  Simons.  He  has  not  accepted  any  other,  except  the  Bolslievik 
faith  or  anarchistic  faith,  whatever  it  may  be. 

Senator  O^'erjian.  AVere  any  of  these  men  you  met  over  there 
afterwards  promoted  by  Trotsky  or  his  people  in  the  cabinet? 

]Mr.  Simons.  Some  weelcs  before  1  left  Petrograd  1  became  quite 
well  acquainted  with  one  member  of  the  Soviet  government,  who  was 
the  commissar  of  the  post  and  telegraph,  Sergius  Zorin,  and  I  tried 
to  get  a  dictum  from  him  as  to  what  would  happen  to  me  if  I  stayed 
there,  inasmuch  as  a  decree  had  been  issued  by  the  Soviet  government 
that  all  subjects  of  allied  countries  remaining  in  Russia,  from  18  to 
45  years  of  age,  would  be  considered  as  prisoners  of  war.  Our  em- 
bassy had  urged  all  Americans  residing  in  Russia,  in  the  fall  of 
1917  and  the  winter  of  1918,  to  leave  that  territory.  Finally,  Consul 
Poole,  who  was  in  Moscow  up  to  about  the  middle  or  end  of  Septem- 
ber, 1918,  wrote  a  letter  to  me  stating  that  the  American  Government 
demanded  that  all  American  citizens  should  leave  Russia  immedi- 
ately, and  that  I  should  use  whatever  influence  I  had  with  the  other 
Americans  in  Petrograd  to  have  them  leave  also. 

1  then  and  there  decided  that  I  ought  to  find  out  just  what  would 
happen  in  case  1  could  not  get  out — wliat  would  happen  to  me  and 
my  sister.  I  was  not  quite  45,  but  was  within  six  months  of  my  forty- 
fifth  birthday,  and  I  wanted  to  get  from  some  of  these  commissars 
what  they  would  do  to  me.  The  president  of  the  northern  commune 
section  would  not  receive  me.  They  told  me  he  was  not  receiving 
anybody,  that  he  was  strongly  guarded,  and  never  slept  in  the  same 
room  twice. 

Senator  Nelson.  What  was  his  name? 

Mr.  Simons.  Apfelbaum.  That  is  his  real  name,  but  his  assumed 
Russian  name,  like  many  of  them,  is  Zinovyetf.  His  real  name  is 

Senator  Nelson.  That  means  apple  tree,  does  it  not  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes.  But  his  second  or  third  secretary — they  were 
all  Jews  there — referred  me  in  a  rather  vague  way  to  any  other  com- 


missar  that  I  might  see.  There  had  been  threats  made  to  kill  not 
only  Lenine  and  Trotsky,  but  Apfelbaum,  and  just  prior  to  that 
another  man,  who,  as  was  said,  held  the  lives  of  all  of  us  in  his  hands, 
and  who  was  responsible  for  the  killing  of  so  many  people  without 
even  a  trial  given  them,  was  assassinated  by  a  Jew.  There  was 
an  awful  terroristic  atmosphere  in  Petrograd,  and  we  were  expect- 
ing still  worse  things  to  happen  every  day.  With  a  view  to  finding 
out  what  my  real  status  quo  was  in  Soviet  tei'ritory,  and  not  having 
had  any  success  with  Mr.  Apfelbaum,  I  Avent  to  the  commissar  of 
the  post  and  telegraph,  Sergius  Zorin.  I  had  learned  that  he  had 
come  from  New  York,  whei'e  he  had  spent  eight  years. 

Senator  Nelson.  What  was  his  real  name? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  never  asked  him,  but  Avhen  I  called  on  him — I  will 
get  up  to  that  point  presently — he  told  me  that  so  long  as  the  Ameri- 
can troops  did  not  take  the  offensive  on  Russian  territory,  we  Ameri- 
cans residing  in  Russia  would  not  be  considered  prisoners  of  war. 
I  cabled  that  immediately  to  our  authorities  in  New  York,  through 
the  Norwegian  Legation,  who  had  the  protection  of  American  citizens 
and  interests  in  Russia  at  that  time. 

Senator  Nelson.  Did  he  speak  to  you  in  English,  this  man? 

Mr.  Simons.  He  spoke  in  English.     His  English  was  quite  fair. 

Senator  Nelson.  He  had  come  from  this  country  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  He  had  been  in  this  country. 

Senator  Nelson.  From  the  East  Side? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  imagine  so. 

Senator  Wolcott.  How  do  you  spell  his  name  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  Sergius  Zorin,  the  commissar  of  the  post  and  tele- 
graph. Commissar  Zorin  was  very  gracious,  not  only  to  me  but 
also  to  Capt.  Webster,' with  whom  he  soon  after  became  acquainted,, 
who  was  the  head  of  the  American  Red  Cross  mission  to  Russia, 
While  discussing  different  things  Zorin  told  me  that  he  was  anxious 
to  hear  from  his  brother,  a  certain  Alexander  Gumberg,  who  he 
said  was  the  secretary  of  Col.  Raymond  Robins. 

Senator  Nelson.  Where  was  he? 

Mr.  Simons.  He  had  left  Russia,  and  Zorin  was  anxious  to  hear 
something  from  him.  He  said  he  had  not  heard  from  him  for  a 
long  time,  so  he  asked  me  if  I,  getting  any  papers  from  the  outside 
or  any  mail,  could  get  any  word  out  to  his  brother.  I  said  I  would 
be  glad  to  do  that  for  him,  and  I  wrote  a  letter  to  that  effect  to 
Col.  Robins,  which  I  believe  he  has  never  received.  When  last 
I  met  him  he  said  he  had  not  received  it. 

Senator  Nelson.  Who  is  this  Col.  Robins? 

!Mr.  SiMoxs.  Col.  Raymond  Robins  was  identified  with  the  Ameri- 
can Red  Cross  missimi  ito  Russia. 

Senator  Nelson.  Was  he  there  in  Russia,  or  here? 

Mr.  Simons.  At  the  tim.e  I  was  speaking  with  Mr.  Zorin  he  vas 
here  in  Amerirn,  and  Mr.  Zorin  spoke  of  him  highly  and  said  that 
he  was  the  greatest  American  of  all,  and  he  hoped  that  he  would 
be  ambassador  to  Russia.  ,    ,      .„  .       -r. 

Senator  0-\terman.  He  is  the  chairman  of  the  Progressive  Party, 
is  he  not,  Raymond  Robins? 

Mr  SiMoxs.  I  do  not  know  very  much  about  him,  except  what  i 
have  seen  in  Who's  Who.     I  had  always  thought  highly  of  Mm 


until  he  came  over  to  Russia  and  embarrassed  our  embassy  in  many 
ways  and  got  into  the  press,  and  our  ambassador  was  obliged  to 
come  out  again  and  again  with  certain  statements,  and  finally  the 
unpleasant  controversy,  if  we  may  call  it  such,  Avas  brought  to  an 
end  by  a  statement  made  by  Ambassador  Francis  that  he  and  Col. 
Eobins  were  friends,  and  he  did  not  know  who  Avas  trj'ing  to  cause 
enmity  between  them,  or  something  to  that  effect,  and  he  hoped  now 
that  this  thing  would  be  put  at  an  end. 

I  read  all  those  things  in  the  Russian  press,  and  we  felt  very  much 
distressed  over  it.  because  we  thought  that  our  ambassador,  who  was 
doing  such  magnificent  work  over  there,  ought  to  have  the  support 
of  every  last  American.  There  was  no  reason  why  anybody  should 
pose  even  as  a  candidate,  so  called,  for  the  ambassadorship  to  the 
Soviet  government. 

Senator  "Wolcott.  AVhat  was  the  nature  of  the  controversy  that 
you  speak  of  between  the  ambassador  and  Mr.  Robins,  that  was  pub- 
lished in  the  papers? 

Air.  Simons.  I  have  not  the  papers  here.  I  think  Prof.  Harper 
is  probably  in  possession  of  those  papers,  or  they  must  have  them  in 
the  Russian  division  of  the  Department  of  State. 

Senator  "Wolcott.  Can  you  not  tell  us  in  a  general  waj'  what  it 

Mr.  SiAiONS.  As  I  recall  the  whole  thing,  the  Soviet  government 
was  feeling  very  strongly  about  the  attitude  which  the  allies  and 
America,  for  that  matter,  had  taken  in  regard  to  the  Lenine-Trotsky 
regime  in  not  recognizing  them,  and  withdrawing  their  representa- 
tives, their  ambassadore,  and  so  on,  and  Gov.  Francis  issued,  several 
times,  messages  in  the  Russian  press  to  the  Russian  people  assuring 
them  of  the  good  will  of  America,  and  so  on;  and  coming  out  very 
plainly  with  this  statement,  that  the  Brest-Litovsk  treaty  would  not 
be  recognized  at  the  peace  conference,  and  in  our  Thanksgiving 
service  in  the  American  church  in  Petrograd  in  November,  1917,  the 
ambassador  said  a  similar  thing.  I  have  a  copy  of  that  speech. 
There  were  quite  a  number  of  distinguished  Russians  present,  and 
that  speech  of  his  irritated  the  Bolsheviki  very  much. 

Then,  his  Fourth  of  July  message,  which  was  given  in  Vologda, 
on  the  4th  of  July,  1918,  distressed  them  very  much,  too.  That  was 
afterwards  printed  in  thousands  of  copies  in  Russian  and  widely 
circulated,  and  Gov.  Francis  in  that  message,  of  course,  even  more 
strongly  than  ever  stated  that  the  Brest-Litovsk  treaty  would  not  be 
recognized  at  the  peace  conference,  but  that  America  would  stand 
by  the  Russian  nation  and  had  a  real  affection  for  the  Russian  nation. 
1  am  only  quoting  in  a  general  way,  because  I  have  not  the  data  here 
before  me. 

Col.  Robins  was  quoted  again  and  again  as  being  the  typical 
American,  having  been  a  workingman  himself,  having  been  down  in 
the  mines,  and  whatnot,  and  he  knew  the  needs  of  the  laboring  people, 
the  laboring  element,  and  so  on;  and  then  our  Ambassador  Francis 
was  placed  as  being  a  typical  capitalist,  and  they  rang  off  a  good  deal 
of  that,  and  he  was  persona  non  grata  with  the  Bolsheviki  officials 
for  that  reason.  The  criticisms  against  the  Root  mission  were  just 
along  that  same  line. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Was  all  that  accompanied  by  the  suggestion 
that  Mr.  Robins  ought  to  be  ambassador  ? 


Mr.  Simons.  That  came  out  again  and  again,-  that  he  really  was 
going  to  be,  and  he  ought  to  be,  the  American  ambassador  to  the 
soviet  government. 

Senator  WoLCOTr.  Is  that  what  Mr.  Apfelbaum  wanted,  too  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  have  not  spoken  with  Mr.  Apfelbaum. 

Senator  Wolcott.  I  mean  the  other  fellow. 

Mr.  Simons.  Mr.  Zorin? 

Senator  Wolcott.  Yes. 

j\Ir.  Simons.  Zorin  was  very  enthusiastic  about  that  proposition. 
Then  he  asked  me  if  I  could  get  in  touch  with  his  brother,  Alexander 
Gumberg,  who  was  supposed  to  be  with  Col.  Robins  somewhere  in 
America ;  but  when  I  came  here  I  did  not  find  him.  I  was  told  that 
he  had  gone  back  to  Europe,  and  possibly  was  going  to  Russia. 

Senator  Overman.  Did  Robins  make  any  statements  over  there, 
showing  he  was  ambitious  for  this  place  and  was  siding  with  the 
Soviet  government? 

Mr.  Simons.  He  was  reported  as  having  said  certain  things,  but  I 
am  not  in  a  position  to  say  that  he  really  made  those  statements.  I 
only  know  this  much :  There  was  a  strong  feeling  on  the  part  of  the 
real  Russian  element  against  this  thing.  It  became  very  nauseating 
to  the  people  who  really  had  admiration  for  America,  and  for  our 
own  American  representative.  Gov.  Francis,  whom  I  esteem  most 
highly,  as  also  his  staff.  I  think  we  were  most  fortunate  in  hav- 
ing those  men  over  there.  I  do  not  know  any  finer  set  that  we  ever 

Senator  Nelson.  Now,  to  bring  you  back  to  the  chronological  order 
of  events,  after  Kerensky  got  in  charge  of  the  government,  he  at- 
tempted to  prosecute  the  war  against  the  Germans,  did  he  not  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  Kerensky,  I  believe,  was  sincere  in  that. 

Senator  Nelson.  He  carried  that  on  for  a  while,  and  was  success- 
ful, until  finally  the  Russian  Army  got  demoralized  and  insisted  on 
controlling  their  officers  and  everything  else,  and  refused  to  fight, 
is  not  that  true  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  That  is  true. 

Senator  Nelson.  Do  you  know  anything  about  how  that  movement 
demoralizing  the  army  was  inspired;  by  what  element? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  have  heard  from  somebody  recently,  and  I  could 
check  it  up  within  a  few  days,  'that  there  was  one  American  in  the 
Y.  M.  C.  A.  that  actually  saw  German  money  being  passed  over  from 
the  German  front  to  the  Russians. 

Senator  Nelson.  Among  the  Russian  soldiers  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  And  to  the  men  who  were  authorized  to  receive  the 
money  for  propagandist  purposes. 

Senator  Nelson.  Among  the  Russian  Army  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes;  and  I  do  happen  to  know  that  soon  after  the 
great  revolution  of  the  winter  of  1917  tens  of  thousands  of  copies  of 
the  communist  manifesto,  in  Russian,  were  circulated  among  the 
Russian  soldiers.  It  contained  the  official  program  of  the  Bolsheviki. 
That  is  the  communist  manifesto,  and  this  is  the  thing  that  made  the 
Lenine-Trotsky  propaganda  successful  over  there.  This  is  an  Eng- 
lish translation. 

Senator  Nelson.  Was  not  the  collapse  of  the  Russian  Army,  and 
the  demoralizing  of  that  army,  by  which  the  soldiers  refused  to 


fight,  and  even  went  over  to  the  enemy,  one  of  the  means  of  helping 
Trotsky  and  Lenine  to  get  control  of  the  Go\-ernment? 

Mr.  Simons.  Most  assuredly. 

Senator  Overmax.  And  did  these  Yiddish  from  the  East  Side,  who 
Avere  there  assisting  Lenine  and  Trotsky,  discuss  this  question  of 
Bolshevism  with  you,  or  how  did  they  impress  you  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  They  were  very  guarded,  because  they  knew  that  as 
a  100  per  cent  American,  and  as  a  Christian  clergyman,  I  would  not 
be  in  sympathy  with  the  ideals  and  spirit,  and  the  means  which  they 
were  thinking  of  employing;  but  when  I  spoke  with  these  men  I 
always  told  them  that  our  Methodist  Episcopal  Church  in  America, 
in  the  general  conference  of  1916,  had  passed  very  fine  resolutions 
with  regard  to  labor  reform,  and  what  not,  and  that  ours  was  really 
the  people's  church.  I  had  said  that,  and  said  also  that  I  was  a 
Christian  Socialist,  of  course  reserving  for  myself  the  definition.  I 
am  a  Christian  Socialist  in  the  sense  that  every  Christian  who  takes 
the  New  Testament  as  his  ideal  would  be,  standing  very  much  where 
Charles  Kingsley  and  Morris  stood,  believing  not  in  revolutionary 
socialism,  but  evolutionary  socialism,  taking  the  Sermon  on  the  Mount 
of  Christ,  and  the  thirteenth  chapter  of  First  Corinthians,  as  the 
ideal,  believing  that  not  by  force  but  by  moral  persuasion  shall  we 
really  succeed  in  making  a  brotherhood  out  of  the  Avhole  human  race. 

Senator  King.  You  recognized  that  a  brotherhood  was  compatible 
with  the  maintenance  of  orderly  government  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  certainly  would. 

Senator  King.  And  your  ideal  of  Christianity  did  not  mean  the 
subversion  of  government? 

Mr.  Simons.  First,  last,  and  all  the  time  I  stood  for  Avhat  we  con- 
sider the  most  ideal  government  the  world  has  ever  had,  the  Govern- 
ment of  the  United  States  of  America ;  and  I  had  no  sympathy  at 
all  with  the  red  flag  propagandists. 

Senator  King.  You  believed  in  a  government  that  recognized  the 
right  of  contract,  the  right  of  acquisition  and  the  possession  of  prop- 
erty, and  all  those  personal  rights  which  we  enjoy  under  our  repre- 
sentative form  of  government? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  certainly  do. 

Senator  King.  You  believe  in  this  form  of  government? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  certainly  do. 

Senator  King.  You  do  not  believe  in  any  socialism  which  has  for 
its  object  the  destruction  of  our  form  of  government? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  absolutely  repudiate  all  that. 

Senator  King.  So  your  classifying  yourself  as  a  Christian  So- 
cialist does  not  mean  an  opposition  to  our  form  of  government? 

Mr.  Simons.  Wlien  I  say  Christian  Socialist  I  mean  that  I  take 
that  tenn  and  I  put  it  as  high  as  it  ever  could  be  put,  taking  the 
teaching  of  Jesus  Christ  Avith  regard  to  the  principle  of  the  father- 
hood of  God  and  the  brotherhoocl  of  man,  standing  by  what  Christ 
taught,  the  very  best  kind  of  socialism  the  world  could  ever  hope 
for.  That  is  Avhere  Kingsley  and  Morris  stood.  That  is  where  I 
think  every  real  man  would  stand  who  knoAvs  anything  at  all  about 
the  New  Testament.  If,  of  course,  they  had  known  what  I  had  back 
in  my  mind,  they  would  not  have  recognized  me  even  as  a  tenth- 
rate  Socialist. 


Senator  Nelson.  You  were  there  Avhen  the  treaty  of  Brest-Litovsk 
was  entered  into? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  was. 

Senator  Nelson.  Can  you  tell  us  anything  wliich  actuated  the  Bol- 
sheviki  in  entering  into  such  a  treaty?  By  that  treaty  they  re- 
linquished the  Ukraine,  they  relinquished  Finland,  they  relinquished 
Courland  and  the  Baltic  coast,  all,  to  the  Germans.  At  all  events, 
they  gave  up  all,  so  that  they  left  Russia  with  no  access  to  the  sea 
except  at  Petrograd;  and  they  also  got  considerable  gold  from  the 
Russian  Government  or  from  the  Bolsheviki. 

Senator  King.  You  ought  to  add  to  that,  Senator,  the  Aland 
Islands,  which  are  at  the  mouth  of  the  sea,  so  it  made  the  harbor  of 
Petrograd  valueless. 

Senator  Nelson.  The  Aland  Islands  are  southwest  of  the  Finnish 

Senator  King.  But  they  are  really  a  protection,  as  a  naval  base, 
very  largely,  to  the  entrance  to  the  harbor  that  goes  in  to  Petrograd — 
that  arm  of  the  sea  that  extends  into  Russia. 

Senator  Nelson.  Now,  what  information  can  you  give  us  about 
that.  Doctor? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  am  not  a  military  expert,  as  you  know.  I  read  the 
papers  and  I  heard  the  account  of  their  proceedings  at  the  Brest- 
Litovsk  meeting,  and  so  on,  with  scores  of  others  who  were  in  the 
British,  American,  and  French  colonies  in  Petrograd  and  Moscow, 
and  Russians  who  were  well  qualified  to  pass  judgment  on  the  thing. 
I  also  had  a  strong  conviction  that  the  Brest-Litovsk  performance 
was  largely  a  German  thing,  and  that  for  the  simple  reason  that 
while  Lenine  and  Trotsky  ancl  their  helpers  were  saying  all  kinds  of 
bitter  things  about  the  allies,  I  hardly  ever,  up  to  that  time,  caught 
them  saying  anything  very  bitter  against  Germany.  I  had  seen  their 
proclamations,  and  only  last  summer,  in  July  and  August.  One 
particularly  I  have  in  mind,  which  was  addressed  to  the  whole 
civilized  world  and  posted  up  all  over  Petrograd,  and  that  referred  in 
no  delicate  language  to  the  allies  as  being  flesh-eating  and  blood- 
drinking  allies. 

Senator  King.  That  included  the  United  States,  of  course,  in  that 

Mr.  Si^ioNS.  Well,  then  they  went  on  to  speak  of  England  and 
France.  As  I  recall,  I  do  not  think  they  mentioned  us,  but  in  a 
number  of  conversations  that  I  had  with  officials  in  the  Soviet 
regime  I  discovered  that  there  was  a  tendency  to  remain,  if  possible, 
friendly  with  America,  which  was  interpreted  by  men  in  the  diplo- 
matic service  of  the  allied  countries  as  being  an  attempt,  if  possible, 
to  separate  America  from  her  allies.  And  then  again,  when  the 
Bolsheviki  regime  would  fall  to  pieces  there  might  be  an  asylum  to 
which  the  Bolsheviki  demons  might  escape.  Excuse  me  for  calling 
them  demons,  but  I  have  seen  so  much  that  I  have  not  been  able  to 
find  a  better  word  to  characterize  thera. 

Senator  Overman.  Do  you  know  this  man  Gordon  that  you  spoke 
of — ^this  negro  from  the  United  States? 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes ;  I  knew  him.  He  came  over  to  me  to  get  married 
to  a  so-called  Russian  lady,  who  was  an  Esthonian.  He  lived  with 
her  only  a  short  time. 


Senator  Overiiax.  Where  did  he  come  from,  do  you  know? 

Mr.  Simons.  He  came  from  America.  He  was  a  pugilist,  and 
issued  cards  as  being  a  professor  of  physical  culture,  boxing,  and 
■what  not,  and  for  a  certain  time  he  was  the  doorkeeper  in  our 
American  Embassy  in  Petrograd. 

Senator  Overman.  You  spoke  of  him  as  being  mixed  up  with  this 
Bolshevik  crowd  in  the  institute. 

]\ir.  Simons.  I  think  that  is  the  same  Gordon — Prof.  Gordon. 

Senator  Overman.  You  spoke  of  his  being  in  with  these  Bol- 

^Ir.  Simons.  That  is  the  last  statement  that  we  had. 

Senator  Overman.  That  he  was  with  them? 

INIr.  Simons.  That  was  the  last  statement. 

Senator  Xelsox.  Do  you  not  think  the  Germans  absolutely  con- 
trolled the  situation  at  the  time  that  the  treaty  of  Brest -Litovsk  was 
entered  into,  and  that  they  practically  had  their  own  way? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  certainly  do. 

Senator  Nelson.  Do  you  not  believe  that  Trotsky  and  Lenine  were 
really  in  the  toils  of  Germany  and  willing  to  do  what  Gennany 
wanted  ?  , 

Mr.  Simons.  I  have  been  led  to  believe  that  most  of  the  men  in  the 
Bolsheviki  service,  who  are  real  Bolshevists — there  are  some  who  are 
not — most  of  them  are  avowedly  antially,  and  have  a  strong  hatred 
toward  England,  and  an  affection  for  Germany.  That  has  come  out 
again  and  again. 

Senator  Nelson.  "Were  j'ou  there  when  the  revolution  of  Lenine 
and  Trotsky,  as  distinguished  from  the  former  revolution,  took  place, 
in  November,  1917? 

Mr.  Simons.  T  was  present. 

Senator  Nelson.  Can  you  tell  us  about  what  took  place  then? 

Mr.  Simons.  It  is  a  long  story.  To  give  you  a  graphic  picture  of 
it  would  take  hours.    I  can  only  say  this 

Senator  Nelson.  Give  us  an  outline. 

Mr.  Simons.  I  can  onlj'  say  this,  that  the  air  was  pregnant  with  the 
most  hellish  terrorism  that  any  fine  grained  person  could  ever  expe- 
rience. I  dressed  up  again  and  again  as  a  Russian  workman  and 
put  on  a  Russian  shirt  that  hangs  down  almost  to  the  knees,  and  I  put 
on  an  old  slouch  hat  and  nickel  spectacles  so  that  my  sister  said  I 
really  looked  like  a  Bolshevist,  and  I  went  out  and  moved  among  those 
fellows  and  I  heard  their  talk.  I  moved  into  the  barracks.  I  wanted 
to  get  inside  information  inasmuch  as  I  was  preparing  a  book.  I 
felt  that  history  was  being  made,  and  I  believed  in  Russia,  I  loved 
Russia,  but  I  did  not  believe  in  this  thing,  and  I  wanted  to  see  just 
what  it  would  do  to  the  Russia  that  I  expected  to  live,  and  I  wanted 
to  get  first-hand  information,  and  as  I  moved  among  the  hoi  poUoi, 
I  found  that  the  average  man  did  not  know  the  difference  between 
his  elbows  and  his  knees.  These  agitators  would  come  and  speak  for 
Lenine  and  Trotsky,  and  they  would  say,  "  That  is  entirely  correct, 
entirely  correct."  And  then,  after  those  agitators  had  left  with  their 
truck  auto,  another  auto  would  come  along,  and  there  would  be  some 
other  agitators. 

Senatoi^  Nelson.  "Who  were  those  agitators  ?  Were  they  workmen 
■or  soldiers,  or  of  what  class  or  community? 


Mr.  Simons.  They  were  made  up  of  professional  agitators,  and 
some  of  them  had  on  the  Russian  uniform,  and  some  of  them  were 
simply  clad  as  workmen,  with  the  black  robosa  or  workman's  shirt. 

Senator  King.  Had  any  of  them  been  in  the  United  States,  and 
gone  back? 

Mr.  Simons.  Some  of  them  had. 

Senator  King.  From  the  East  Side? 

Mr.  Simons.  From  the  East  Side,  as  I  happen  to  knoAv. 

Senator  Wolcott.  This  man  Apfelbauni  was  not  from  the  East 

Mr.  Simons.  I  do  not  k^ow.  I  have  not  been  informed  as  to  his 
antecedents,  and  so  on.  I  have  a  paper  here  which  was  circulated 
when  Lenine  and  Trotsky  were  asserting  themselves,  in  August,  Sep- 
tember, and  October  of  1917,  giving  a  list  of  about  20  names,  showing 
the  Jewish  in  one  column,  and  then  the  assumed  Russian  name  in  the 
other.  That  thing  was  considered  a  very  dangerous  document,  but  it 
was  being  circulated  everywhere,  and  one  copj'  came  to  me.  In  that 
■document  I  found  Apfelbaum's  name,  and  his  assumed  name.  Be- 
yond that  I  do  not  know  anything  about  Mr.  Apfelbaum. 

Senator  King.  I  interrupted, you  when  you  were  answering  Senator 
Nelson's  question. 

Senator  Nelson.  I  would  like  to  have  you  go  on  further  and  tell  us. 

Mr.  Simons.  We  could  not  escape  this  observation,  that  the  suc- 
qess  of  the  Bolsheviki  revolution  was  largely  due  to  the  fact  of  having 
■employed  terrorism. 

Senator  Overman.  What  was  the  nature  of  the  terrorism? 

Mr.  Simons.  They  had  practically  all  their  men  armed.  The  work- 
ingman  there  got  so  inspired  with  the  holy  zeal  of  the  great  cause, 
which  was  to  kill  off  -the  capitalist  and  enthrone  the  proletariat,  that 
he  felt  he  was  in  a  holy  crusade  for  humanity's  sacred  cause.  That 
is  the  way  those  men  talked :  and  these  men  were  given  arms.  I  have 
•one  paper  here  which  shows  that  they  used  it  as  a  slogan.  It  reads 
something  like  this,  "  The  surety  of  the  proletarian  cause  lies  in  put- 
ting the  gun  into  the  hand  of  the  workman."  It  was  that  thing  that 
made  the  Bolsheviki  revolution  a  success.  Without  having  the  so- 
called  proletarian  element  armed.  I  do  not  believe  it  would  have  suc- 

Senator  Nelson.  The  masses  of  their  people,  then,  were  armed, 
and  paraded  the  streets  in  armed  bodies,  did  they  not? 

Mr.  Simons.  Many  of  them ;  yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  And  that  parading  of  these  armed  men  bred  this 
spirit  of  terrorism? 

Mr.  Simons.  They  then  took  opportunity  to  oppose  all  political 
parties  that  were  not  in  favor  of  the  Bolsheviki  program.  The  differ- 
■ent  parties  were  defined,  and  they  were  still  hoping  that  they  might 
succeed  in  having  their  constituent  assembly,  but  soon  after  the 
Bolshevist  revolution  had  succeeded,  even  those  banners  were  torn 
down,  and  it  was  considered  the  most  dangerous  thing  to  even  speak 
in  favor  of  a  constituent  assembly. 

Senator  King.  A  constituent  assembly  representing  all  of  them? 

Mr.  Simons.  All  of  the  parties. 

Senator  King.  Which  gave  them  all  a  chance  to  participate? 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes. 


Senator  King.  The  peasants,  the  workingmen,  the  laboring  men: 
proletariat  and  capitalistic  classes? 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes. 

Senator  King.  A  sort  of  general  democratic  government? 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Were  there  any  threats  manifest  at  that  time  to 
kill  those  who  had  property  or  were  intellectual  people? 

Mr.  Simons.  After  the  Bolsheviki  came  into  power  one  paper 
after  another  that  stood  out  against  them  was  suppressed,  and  it 
was  not  long  before  we  had  only  one  kind  of  press  there,  and  that 
was  the  Bolshevistic  or  anarchistic.  I  h^ve  a  few  copies  here,  and 
in  these  papers  they  employ  the  harshest  terms  that  I  have  ever  found, 
in  regard  to  putting  out  of  the  way  all  groups  or  institutions  that 
were  not  in  sympathy  or  in  accord  with  the  Bolshevik  ideal,  spirit, 
and  program. 

Senator  King.  Do  you  mean  assassination  and  murder  to  accom- 
plish that  end? 

Mr.  Simons.  It  became  quite  evident  that  they  had  that  as  their — 
what  shall  I  say? — trump  card,  and  many  of  their  proclamations 
breathed  not  only  an  intense  diabolical  class  hatred,  but  also  murder, 
and  for  weeks  and  weeks  they  were  fine-tooth  combing  the  dif- 
r«nt  sections  of  Petrograd — and  ^loscow,  for  that  matter — trying  to 
get  hold  of  the  officers  who  up  to  that  time  had  been  holding  out 
against  them.  Many  of  them  had  already  made  their  escape  and 
gone  over  to  the  allies. 

Senator  Nelson.  You  mean  the  army  officers  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  The  army  officers.  And  they  were  rushing  from  one 
home  to  another.  Some  of  them  even  came  to  us  and  asked  whether 
they  could  not  spend  the  night  with  us.  They  said,  "  It  will  be  only 
for  one  night " ;  but  we  never  did  that,  for  the  simple  reason  that  we 
did  not  want  to  be  found  guilty  of  that  sort  of  thing.  Scores  of 
these  officers — and  some  of  them  who  were  high  up  in  the  Russian 
Army  under  the  old  Government  and  imder  the  provisional  govern- 
ment— called  on  me  when  the  embassy  was  no  longer  there,  and  asked 
me  to  give  them  either  a  card  or  a  letter  to  our  embassy  in  Vologda, 
which  I  did.  These  men  gave  me  a  good  deal  of  information,  too.  I 
have  made  memoranda  of  some  of  these  conversations,  but  all  that 
lies  in  the  trunk  over  in  the  American  Embassy  in  Petrograd,  await- 
ing the  day  when  I  can  go  there  and  use  it  for  later  publication. 

Senator  Xelson.  Can  you  tell  us  of  the  acts  of  barbarism  and  the 
destruction  of  life  and  property  that  took  place  there?  Can  you 
tell  us  anything  about  that  i 

]\Ir.  Simons.  I  beg  your  pardon. 

Senator  Xelson.  You  have  spoken  of  the  terrorism  they  engen- 
dered by  beinp'  armed.    Can  you  tell  us  wlmt  they  did  ? 

ilr.  SuroNs.  Here  are  a  few  things  that  came  under  my  own  im- 
mediate observation  :  It  was  a  short  time  before  Ambassador  Francis 
left  Petrograd  that  we  invited  him  to  have  dinner  with  us.  It  must 
have  been  either  in  December  or  January — I  am  not  sure,  but  I  am 
inclined  to  believe  it  must  have  been  in  January  or  February,  1918 — 
but  about  an  hour  and  a  half  Ijefore  he  came,  accompanied  by  two  of 
his  secretaries,  one  of  the  most  horrible  things  I  have  ever  witnessed 
hapjoened  right  in  front  of  our  American  proj^erty  there.    I  was  m 


my  office  at  the  time,  speaking  with  our  head  deaconess,  and  I  heard 
shots  and  groans,  and  looked  out  of  the  window,  and  right  in  front 
of  our  property  there  was  a  crowd  of  people,  all  ex:ited,  shouting, 
and  two  Russian  soldiers  running,  with  several  Eed  Guards — Bol- 
sheviks— right  after  them,  and  I  witnessed  tlieui  shoot  each  of  those 
men  as  they  Avere  falling,  three  or  four  times  in  the  head. 

Our  own  household  became  '^omewhat  alarmed.  We  did  not  know 
just  what  the  nature  of  this  was.  Possibly  it  was  something  that 
would  involve  us.  I  at  once  <  ailed  for  the  sexton  or  janitor — in  this 
case  he  was  both — of  our  church,  and  asked  him  to  investigate.  He 
then  learned  that  these  men  had  been  in  a  tea-drinking  room  down  the 
street,  and  had  been  charged  with  having  tried  to  steal,  but  whether 
or  no  they  were  guilty  never  came  out.  But  the  Bolshevik  Red  Guards 
never  stopped  to  ask  whether  a  man  was  guilty  or  not ;  they  would 
shoot  on  the  spot.  I  have  seen  that  again  and  again.  I  had  an  in- 
stance of  that  brought  to  my  attention  in  the  case  of  two  brothers, 
where  the  one  they  wanted  was  not  there,  and  they  shot  the  other 
man  by  mistake,  and  the  other  one  went  free. 

In  this  particular  instance  we  felt  queer,  because  in  a  minute  the 
ambassador  might  come  to  see  us,  and  it  did  not  look  quite  palatable 
to  have  a  pool  of  blood  with  two  dead  bodies,  like  that,  in  front  of 
one's  house,  when  a  distinguished  man  like  Gov.  Francis  was  to 
come  to  dinner.  But  he  came,  and  it  was  then  already  dark,  for- 
tunately, and  he  did  not  see  any  of  that.  I  told  him  about  it,  and  he 
seemed  to  enjoy  it.  I  mean  he  was  keen  on  hearing  any  of  these 
things.  He  was  a  brave  soul,  and  referred  to  his  own  fearlessness, 
and  incidentally  always  having  a  good  little  friend  in  his  back 
pocket — a  Browning.  This  did  not  unnerve  the  ambassador  in  the 
least.  He  then  told  me  a  number  of  things  that  showed  that  he  had 
experienced  possibly  more  than  we  had. 

On  another  occasion  the  Bolshevik  Eed  Guards,  of  a  morning, 
about  half  past  2,  tried  to  bi'eak  into  our  house.  They  were  climb- 
ing up  the  emergency  ladder,  and  our  janitor,  like  most  other  people 
in  Petrograd,  who  were  only  getting  dried  fish  to  live  on — there  was 
hardly  any  bread  to  be  had — was  afflicted  with  the  same  malady  that 
others  were  suffering  with,  and  he  was  up  that  night,  fortunately, 
and  he  looked  around  and  saw  two  men  climbing  up  the  emergency 
ladder,  trying  to  get  into  our  house  and  to  break  into  the  garret. 
A  few  days  before  that  time  the  door  leading  to  the  garret  had  been 
tampered  with,  and  I  suspected  that  something  was  being  done,  and 
I  had  the  old  lock  taken  off  and  a  new  one  put  on,  and  then  a  second 
door  properly  fixed  up  with  a  padlock,  so  they  would  have  a  kind  of 
a  hard  time  getting  into  our  premises.  At  all  events,  he  approached 
them  and  he  said,  "  Comrades,  what  are  you  desiring  ?  What  do  you 
wish  ?  "  They  said  to  him,  "  You  hold  your  mouth  shut,  and  you 
will  get  5,000  rubles,"  and  quick  as  a  flash  he  answered  and  said, 
"  You  think  I  am  a  Jew  1  "  And  then  they  remarked  to  each  other, 
"  Let  us  go,"  and  they  ran  as  fast  as  their  feet  could  carry  them 
through  the  yard  and  over  the  fence. 

I  investigated  that  thing  afterwards  and  found  there  was  a  plan 
to  get  me  to  pay  money.  I  was  looked  upon  by  certain  Bolshevik 
officials  as  being  a  capitalist.  I  was  the  trustee  of  our  property,  be- 
cause it  was  found  up  to  a  certain  time  that  we  could  not  very  well 


have  our  legalizing  papers,  but  we  took  counsel  with  our  law3'er, 
who  was  also  the  lawyer  for  the  ambassador,  and  he  said  the  best 
thing  to  do  was  to  keep  your  property  for  the  time  being,  until  things 
became  normal  and  Russia  had  a  new  law,  in  your  own  name.  I  was, 
because  of  being  known  as  a  property  owner,  put  in  the  fourth  cate- 
gory, which,  of  course,  was  to  be  starved  out  and  in  due  time  ex- 

I  happen  to  know  that  some  of  the  Americans  who  had  property 
over  there  were  blaclanailed ;  one  man  in  particular,  Mr.  Hervey, 
with  whom  I  had  had  long  talks  up  to  the  time  I  left.  They  had 
arrested  him,  and  he  was  to  pay  a  fine.  He  had  a  factory  over  there, 
and  he  had  invested  something  like  $100,000,  so  he  told  me,  and  the 
reason  he  stayed  there  was  to  protect  his  property.  For  some  viola- 
tion of  a  decret,  he  had  to  pay  a  fine.  They  were  getting  out  new 
decrets  every  week,  and  a  man  did  not  know  what  he  could  do  and 
what  he  could  not  do,  because  of  the  multiplicity  of  decrets. 

Senator  King.  They  were  the  basis  of  confiscation,  were  they  not? 

Mr.  SiMoxs.  Yes.  They  were  working  out,  if  you  please,  a  new 
scheme  of  government,  which  touched  e^•ery  conceivable  thing  in  a 
man's  social  and  economic  existence.  We  at  times  felt  so  nervous 
that  we  did  not  know  what  next  to  expect.  Where  we  used  to  have 
to  pay  3  rubles  a  year  as  a  dog  tax — we  had  two  English  fox  ter- 
riers who  did  excellent  police  duty  for  us — under  the  Bolsheviks  we 
had  to  pay  50  rubles  for  each  clog.  The  telephone  bill  used  to  be 
something  like,  as  I  recall  it,  85  rubles.  Under  the  Bolsheviks  it 
was  in  the  neighborhood  of  300  rubles — that  is,  for  our  class.  For  a 
business  man  it  would  be,  I  suppose,  from  500  to  600  rubles.  And  so 
all  along.  If  you  had  a  bathtub,  or  if  you  had  more  windows  than 
ordinarily  a  man  ought  to  have,  or  if  you  had  a  piano,  or  an  organ — 
and  the  last  thing,  that  distressed  us  very  much  was  that  all  type- 
writers were  to  be  registered.  I  tried  to  get  our  new  American  type- 
writer put  in  the  embassy,  and  the  old  Russian  one  as  well.  Those 
were  never  registered.  I  was  advised  by  the  secretary,  who  is  still 
there,  to  do  as  others  had  been  doing. 

Senator  Overman.  They  had  the  idea  of  fixing  a  tax  on  type- 
writers ? 

Mr.  Simons.  They  had  the  idea  of  laying  their  hands  on  every- 
thing. They  could  not  get  away  from  that,  because  they  simply 
had  a  diabolical  zest  for  gTabbing;  and  they  were  putting  it  really 
through  in  such  a  cruel  way;  they  came  in  with  such  a  diabolical 
glee  and  they  would  be  so  offensive  in  their  language.  I  have  had 
occasion  to  speak  with  some  of  these  men,  who  were  usually  Jews, 
and  I  would  never  mince  matters  with  them.  I  would  say,  "Do  you 
know  who  I  am,  and  what  I  have  done  for  Russia?"  and  so  on. 
"Why  do  you  proceed  in  this  way?"  Usually  when  I  got  through 
they  would  be  ready  to  kiss  my  feet,  which  was  not  necessary ;  and  I 
have  this  impression,  that  there  is  a  large  criminal  element  in  the 
Bolsheviki  regime.  Anybody  that  knows  anything  about  Russia 
Ivnows  this,  that  when  the  great  revolution  of  the  winter  of  1917 
came,  all  the  courts  with  their  documents  were  destroyed.  For  days 
and  days  we  saAv  tons  of  old  documents  smoldering  "on  the  streets. 
They  threw  those  things  out  of  the  buildings  and  set  fire  to  them,  and 
Avhat  not.    The  same  thing  happened  to  the  police  buildings.    We  had 


a  police  precinct,  so  called,  diagonally  opposite  our  property,  and  I 
was  on  good  terms  with  the  captain,  so  called,  of  that  precinct.  He 
was  a  fine  gentleman.  I  knew  the  other  men  in  the  office  very  well. 
That  is  only  on  the  side.  Out  of  the  prisons  which  were  destroyed 
hj  fire — they  placed  machine  guns  on  them — out  of  the  prisons,  out 
of  the  houses  of  detention,  out  of  the  other  institutions  where 
certain  people  had  been  kept  by  order  of  the  court,  came  thousands 
of  the  worst  type  of  criminals.  Kerensky  and  the  provisional  gov- 
ernment tried  to  rearrest  some  of  those.  They  succeeded  in  getting 
some  of  them  back  under  cover.  But  when  this  Bolsheviki,  anar- 
chistic movement  effervesced,  in  the  summer  of  1917,  there  were 
groups  that  would  swarm  around  certain  of  these  places  to  get  their 
comrades  out,  and  so  by  the  time  the  Bolsheviki  revolution  was  pretty 
well  under  swing  there  were  practically  no  criminals  in  a  place  where 
they  ought  to  be  kept,  and  we  know  it  to  be  a  fact  that  some  of  the 
worst  characters  have  been  holding  positions  under  the  Bolsheviki. 

Senator  King.  And  those  that  were  not  elevated  to  such  posi- 

Mr.  Simons.  "VYere  engaged  as  agitators. 

Senator  King.  And  many  of  them  were  armed  and  constituted  a 
part  of  the  Bolsheviki  armies? 

Mr.  Simons.  And  afterwards,  because  of  their  relation  to  the  Bol- 
sheviki regime,  and  having  their  protection,  went  out  and  raided 
houses ;  and  when  the  banks  were  to  be  confiscated,  socialized,  and  na- 
tionalized— ^those  were  the  three  terms  we  were  hearing  there  all  the 
time  for  their  damnable  robbery — there  were  men  who  were  known 
to  be  criminals  going  into  these  banks  and  helping  to  do  that  sort  of 
thing.  That  is  a  well-known  fact,  and  you  can  get  the  names  over 

Senator  Nelson.  Did  not  the  Bolsheviki  also  absorb  and  take  into 
their  fold  in  one  form  or  another  the  old  nihilists? 

Mr.  Simons.  They  would  take  anybody  in.  They  would  even  take 
a  monarchist  in,  provided  the  monarchist  would  say,  "I  will  help 
you  to  run  this  department." 

Senator  Nelson.  Doctor,  Avill  you  go  on  and  tell  us  what  you  saw 
in  reference  to  the  efforts  of  the  proletariat  to  take  possession  of  the 
property  of  the  capitalists? 

Senator  King.  If  I  may  be  pardoned,  you  asked  him  a  question  a 
few  moments  ago,  in  answer  to  which  the  doctor  gave  one  or  two 
instances  of  cruelty  that  came  under  his  own  observation.  Generally 
speaking,  without  going  into  details,  what  can  you  say  as  to  there 
being  a  reign  of  terror  involving  murder,  assassination,  and  the 
driving  of  people  from  their  homes,  and  the  starving  of  men,  women, 
and  children,  particularly  those  who  did  not  belong  to  what  might 
be  denominated  the  Bolsheviki  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  could  speak  for  hours  on  that  and  prove  that  the 
thing  is  diabolically  terroristic,  and  that  they  have  a  strong  animus 
against  everybody  who  is  not  in  their  class,  which  they  call  the 
Black  Workmen's  Class.  As  a  property  owner  there  and  the  head 
of  our  church  I  had  a  good  deal  to  do  with  them  administratively. 
We  were  sought  by  the  hour  to  write  out  all  kinds  of  documents, 
according  to  their  scheme,  and  we  were  having  to  run  to  and  fro. 
They  were  nearly  all  Jewish  persons  we  had  to  deal  with,  and  they 


were  all  nasty  in  their  way  of  speaking  of  the  people  of  the  other 
class,  offensively  so.  and  they  would  sometimes  come  into  the  house 
and  begin  to  stamp  around,  until  they  were  given  to  understand  they 
were  not  dealing  with  a  Russian  citizen  but  with  an  American 

A  dozen  armed  men  came  in  there  and  surrounded  my  sister  and 
abused  her. 

Two  of  them  came  in  there  armed  one  night,  for  no  other  reason 
than  that  they  suspected  I  was  anti-Bolshevik,  and,  consequently,  I 
must  be  an  anarchist.  They  banged  away  at  our  back  door,  and  my 
two  fox  terriers  ran  after  me,  and  I  had  to  throw  them  first  into  the 
kitchen.  I  was  losing  time,  and  in  the  meantime  these  men  were  get- 
ting impatient,  and  they  were  just  about  to  break  through  the  door 
when  I  opened  it.  I  had  to  lose  some  time  there  because  we  had  a 
Yale  lock,  and  a  bolt,  and  then  an  old-fashioned  Russian  lock  on  the 
aoor,  and  I  had  to  turn  the  key  in  that  Russian  lock  twice,  but  when  I 
got  it  open  thej'  ran  right  up  to  me  and  held  out  two  revolvers  against 
my  chest  and  threatened  to  shoot  me.  charging  me  with  being  an 
anarchist.  I  smiled  and  called  them  "  Comrades,"  and  told  them 
there  must  be  a  mistake;  that  I  was  not  a  Russian,  to  begin  with, 
but  that  I  was  an  American,  and  was  a  born  democrat  and  never 
knew  what  it  was  to  luive  any  monarchistic  ideas  at  all,  and  that  1 
was  for  a  republic  first,  last,  and  all  the  time,  and  long  before  they 
were  born. 

Senator  Xelson.  And  I  presume  you  told  them  you  were  a  Chris- 
tian Socialist? 

Mr.  SiMoxs.  Well,  afterwards  that  came  out;  but  they  stormed 
around  there  for  a  while.  But  when  they  saw  they  had  made  a  mis- 
take they  asked  whether  we  had  a  telephone. 

Senator  Nelson.  Did  you  talk  with  them? 

Mr.  SiMOxs.  I  certainly  did. 

Senator  Xelson.  Did  they  speak  English? 

Mr.  Simons.  They  spoke  Russian.  Those  two  Red  Guards  were  not 
Russians;  they  were  Letts.  The  way  they  spoke  Russian  I  could 
tell  they  were  not  real  Russians,  but  were  Letts,  and  the  Letts,  by  the 
way,  are,  perhaps,  the  most  cruel  element  that  we  had  in  the  revo- 
lutions of  190.5  and  the  revolutions  of  1917  and  1918. 

Senator  King.  The  Letts  constituted  about  25  to  30  per  cent  of  the 
Bolshevik  army,  as  it  was  constituted  about  six  months  ago,  and 
the  Chinese  about  from  50,000  to  60,000,  and  the  criminals  about 
100,000,  with  a  few  Russians,  a  number  of  Germans,  and  a  few 
Austrians  scattered  among  them.  Is  not  that  about  the  situation  as 
it  was  about  six  months  ago  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  think  you  are  quite  correct,  generally  speaking. 
I  have  learned  that  there  are  thousands  of  German  prisoners  of  war, 
and  Austrian  prisoners  of  war,  Austrians  and  Hungarians,  who  be- 
came infected  with  the  Bolshevist  idea  while  they  were  in  prison 
camps  in  Siberia.  I  have  met  a  few  men  who  were  Russians,  and 
had  been  out  there  and  investigated  the  thing,  and  they  told  me  that 
even  last  August  those  men  said,  "  We  do  not  care  one  way  or  the 
other  about  the  Bolsheviki  government.  What  we  care  about  is 
having  plenty  to  eat  and  good  clothes  and '" — I  beg  pardon  for  say- 
ing this — "  all  the  women  we  want."    There  has  been  a  strong  appeal 


to  that  thing.  The  immoral  element  is  so  ever  present  that  I  hate 
to  say  it  in  this  promiscuous  company,  but  I  am  a  Christian  clergy- 
man and  I  know  you  want  testimony.  I  am  not  responsible  for 
ladies  being  here,  but  the  thing  is  so  immoral  that  it  distresses  me, 
especially  when  ladies  are  around. 

Senator  Nelson.  Who  are  the  Letts,  as  contradistinguished  troni 
the  Eussians  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  The  Letts  are  from  that  section  in  and  around  Riga 
and  they  constitute  a  very  large  part  of  the  population  of  Riga. 
When  the  Germans  came  in  there  and  suppressed  the  revolution 
of  the  Bolsheviki  proletariat  in  the  Baltic  Provinces,  these  Letts, 
who  had  done  very  good  fighting  under  the  old  regime  and  were 
■considered  the  best  fighters  in  the  Russian  Army,  were  forced  out, 
and  they  came  from  what  they  considered  their  own  fatherland 
down  into  Russia  proper,  and  were,  if  you  please,  without  their 
bearings,  and  Lenine  and  Trotsky  made  use  of  them,  offering  them 
large  sums  of  money;  and  although  these  Letts  are  known  to  have 
never  had  any  affection  for  the  Germans,  especially  for  the  Baltic 
Germans,  and  very  little  affection  for  the  Russians,  here  came  the 
question  of  having  plenty  of  food,  good  shelter,  and  warm  attire, 
and — I  repeat  what  they  ha-^e  said  themselves — the  privilege  of  doing- 
whatever  they  wished  in  the  cities  of  Petrograd  and  Moscow. 
Lenine  and  Trotsky  both  have  said,  and  they  have  borne  it  out  in 
their  actions,  that  they  would  not  rely  on  Russians  to  protect  them, 
but  they  would  rely  on  the  Letts:  and  the  Russians,  on  the  whole, 
have  no  affection  for  the  Letts.  I  believe  the  average  Russian  thinks 
less  of  a  Lett  than  he  does  of  any  other  nationality  or  race. 

Senator  Nelson.  The  Letts  are  an  offshoot  of  the  Finnish  race, 
are  they  not  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  No:  the  Esthonians  are  an  offshoot. 

Senator  King.  The  Letts  are  Slavs,  and  the  Finnish  are 

]Mr.  Si3i0NS.  The  Finnish  are  related  to  them,  and  they  understand 
■each  other  quite  well.  If  a  Finn  is  speaking,  an  Esthonian  will  catch 
everything  he  says,  and  vice  versa. 

Senator  King.  The  Chinese  formed  a  considerable  portion  of  the 
Red  Guards,  did  they  not? 

Jlr.  SiMOKS.  Chinese  coolies,  quite  a  number  of  them,  were  up 
in  Finland  at  that  time,  doing  work  under  the  old  regime  in  Rus- 
sia, chopping  down  trees,  and  doing  other  manual  labor  there,  and 
when  the  Red  movement  in  Finland  was  suppressed  thousands  of 
these  Chinese,  who  were  also  called  coolies,  came  into  Russia  proper. 
We  saw  quite  a  number  of  them  in  Petrograd ;  and  we  had  quite  an 
epidemic  of  smallpox,  which  was  due  to  these  people. 

Senator  King.  Were  they  not  employed  in  building  that  road  up 
on  the  Kola  Peninsula,  and  the  harbor  there  on  the  Murman  coast? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  did  not  have  occasion  to  go  up  there,  so  I  can  not 

"Senator  Kixg.  But  those  Chinese  were  employed  on  building  that 
road.  Doctor,  of  your  own  knowledge,  would  you  say  that  the 
Chinese  and  the  German  and  Austrian  soldiers  who  claimed  no  citi- 
zenship anywhere,  men  who  had  been  prisoners  in  Russia,  consti- 
tuted a  part  of  the  Bolshevist  military  establishment? 

85723—19 9 



Mr.  jSiMONS.  I  will  go  this  far  in  saying  that  but  for  this  element 
there  never  would  have  been  a  nucleus  to  the  Bed  army. 

Senator  Kixg.  So,  then,  these  former  German  prisoners  and 
former  Austrian  prisoners,  and  the  Chinese  coolies  and  the  Letts, 
with  some  Kussians,  constituted  the  major  part  of  the  army? 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes ;  and,  of  course,  they  were  getting  thousands  of 
Russian  workmen.  That  we  saw  with  our  own  eyes,  that  thej-  no 
longer  could  get  any  work,  because  nearly  all  their  factories  were 
put  out  of  business;  and  there  is  a  long  story  connected  with  that 
which  involves  German  agents,  and  much  machinery  was  destroyed 
for  no  other  purpose  than  that,  as  we  knew,  Russia  was  to  be  crippled 
economically  and  made  dependent  upon  Germany  for  various  prod- 
ucts ;  and  we  also  knew — and  this  I  state  emphatically — that  at  the 
time  of  the  Brest-Litovsk  treaty,  thousands  of  commercial  men  from 
Germany  were  already  walking  the  streets  of  Petrograd  and  Moscow 
and  other  large  centers,  taking  ordere. 

Senator  Nelson.  For  German  goods? 

Mr.  Simons.  For  Geiinan  wares;  and  it  looked  very  much  as 
though  Germany  had  it  in  her  mind  to  cripple  Russia  economically, 
and  the  Bolshevik  regime  had 

Senator  Nelson.  Winked  at  it? 

Mr.  Simons.  Helped  it  very  much.  Whether  they  did  that  know- 
ingly or  not  I  do  not  know;  I  am  not  going  to  say;  but  it  looked 
rather  suspicious  to  many  of  us  who  were  eyewitnesses.  I  knew 
men  who  were  at  the  head  of  the  work  at  the  factories,  and  they  said, 
"Just  to  think  of  it !  These  workmen  came  in  here  and  they  stormed 
around,  and  they  pulled  the  finest  machinery  to  pieces,  and  when 
we  tried  to  prevail  with  them  not  to  do  this,  that  it  was  bread  and  but- 
ter, they  said,  '  Ha,  our  bread  and  butter !  We  are  now  demolishing 
capitalism.'  "  That  was  put  into  their  heads,  "  We  are  now  abolish- 
ing capitalism;"'  but  they  were  killing  the  goose  that  laid  the  golden 
egg.  They  did  not  quite  see  the  connection  between  having  a  fac- 
tory that  was  kept  intact  and  the  possibility  of  having  a  livelihood. 
The  sad  part  of  it  all  is  that  most  of  those  jDeople  were  illiterates,  and 
it  was  a  foregone  conclusion  that  manv  of  these  things  could  not  be 

Senator  Xelson.  Doctor,  will  you  go  on  and  describe  to  us  the 
soviet  plan  of  government,  their  scheme  of  government,  and  the  way 
thej'  propose  to  put  it  into  practice? 

Senator  King.  Before  that,  if  you  will  permit  me,  right  there  in 
sequence:  You  spoke  about  their  cruelties  and  atrocities.  What  did 
it  result  in  with  respect  to  the  bourgeois? 

Mr.  Simons.  It  resulted  in  this,  that  thousands  of  the  best  people 
of  Petrograd  and  Moscow  and  other  parts  had  been  losing  all  their 
property,  and  in  many  cases  were  having  members  of  their  own 
households  arrested.  Ever  so  many  of  these  things  came  under  my 
personal  observation.  They  had  only  one  wish,  and  that  was  to  get 
out  of  Russia.  But  the  Bolsheviki  were  not  letting  people  get  out  of 
Russia.  It  was  the  hardest  thing  to  get  permission  from  them  if 
you  wanted  to  leave  Russia.  But  they  were  making  their  escape  by 
all  kinds  of  methods.  I  will  not  go  into  that.  Many  of  them  suc- 
ceeded, and  we  succeeded  in  getting  some  very  distinguished  people 
out  of  Russia  ourselves  by  hook  and  crook,  because  some  of  them  said : 


'■  If  we  do  not  get  out  we  know  we  are  going  to  be  murdered,  because 
our  names  are  on  the  lists  of  the  thousands  who  are  held  as  bour- 
geois hostages." 

Senator  Overman.  Hostages?  What  does  that  mean?  It  is  not 
used  in  the  ordinary  sense,  I  understand. 

Mr.  Simons.  To  state  it  popularly,  their  idea  was  to  hold  certain 
people  of  the  bourgeois  class,  whose  names  they  had  down  to  be  ar- 
rested, and  perhaps  put  out  of  the  way  if  anything  befell  the  Bolshe- 
vik government;  for  instance,  like  the  attempt  to  kill  Lenine,  or  the 
successful  assassination  of  Uritzky,  commissar  in  Petrograd,  who  was 
killed  by  a  fellow  Jew ;  and  these  people  were  held  as  hostages. 

Senator  King.  To  illustrate,  they  are  holding  now  as  hostage  the 
wives  and  the  families  of  some  of  the  Russian  officers  whom  they 
have  forced  into  their  army? 

Mr.  Simons.  They  are. 

Senator  King.  And  if  they  do  not  run  the  army  as  they  think 
they  ought  to,  they  threaten  to  kill  their  families? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  do  not  know  whether  I  ought  to  come  out  with  this 
statement,  but  scores  of  them  have  come  to  me  and  said  that  it  was 
breaking  their  hearts.  They  say,  "  We  have  to  do  this,  but  we  t]\iuk 
you  and  others  ought  to  know,  and  hope  you  will  square  us  with  the 
allies."  Some  of  the  finest  men  I  have  known  have  said,  "  If  we  do 
not  go  in  they  will  shoot  us  right  down."  Some  were  shot;  some 
made  their  escape ;  some  were  in  hiding  for  months  and  months,  never 
sleeping  in  the  same  place  two  nights  in  succession.  Some  of  these 
horrible  things  were  being  enacted  for  weeks  and  weeks  right  in  our 
own  section,  and  some  Americans  were  arrested  and  then  afterwards 

You  asked  me  about  their  terroristic  methods.  I  was  an  American 
and  was  known  to  be  a  friend  of  Eussia,  and  a  friend  of  the  working 
people,  and  yet  in  our  open  meetings  it  became  so  apparent  that  there 
was  a  strong  feeling  against  the  Christian  religion,  against  every- 
thing that  was  Christian,  especially  against  the  Young  Men's  Chris- 
tian Association  and  the  Young  Women's  Christian  Association  and 
the  Salvation  Army,  and  all  Christian  bodies,  that  threats  were 
made  like  this :  A  group  of  ill-clad  workmen  stood  in  front  of  our 
house  at  the  close  of  an  open-air  meeting  which  I  had  conducted 
one  Sunday  afternoon,  which  we  have  been  doing  ever  since  the  great 
winter  of  1917.  One  of  our  members  overheard  one  of  them  say, 
"  Before  sundown  we  ai'e  going  to  stick  out  the  eyes  of  that  man  with 
the  spectacles."    They  never  got  as  far  as  the  spectacles. 

Another  case  was  this,  where  an  intoxicated  self-confessed  Bolshe- 
viki  was  moving  around  the  pulpit.  We  had  to  take  our  pulpit  and 
put  it  on  the  stone  stoop  that  we  had  on  the  side  of  the  house,  and 
then  we  would  have  hundreds  of  people  facing  us,  and  he  would  move 
around  that  pulpit  and  I  would  talk  kindly  with  him,  and  I  told  him 
that  it  was  evident  that  he  was  tired,  and  so  on,  and  wouldn't  he  take 
one  of  those  chairs.  We  had  a  few  chairs  out  there  for  some  of  our 
elderly  people.  He  refused  to  be  seated,  and  he  came  back  to  the 
pulpit  again.  One  of  our  oldest  members  talked  with  him  and  he 
said  "  I  am  going  to  put  that  man  out  of  business,"  and  he  lingered 
around  our  property  for  a  couple  of  hours.  After  the  meeting  was 
over  this  one  member  felt  very  nervous  about  it.    He  had  been  im- 



bibing,  so  this  friend  of  ours,  a  member  of  mir  church,  took  him  all 
arovmd  those  streets  near  the  garden,  as  they  call  it,  or  Haven  of 
Petrograd — so  that  he  finally,  ^Yhen  it  grew  dark,  did  not  know  where 
he  was — and  then  left  him,  and  we  never  saw  him  again. 

I  could  relate  a  few  other  things — how  they  tried  to  break  into  our 
house  early  in  the  morning,  and  one  of  the  men  was  promptly  killed 
bj'  a  Eed  Guard. 

Senator  King.  Doctor,  what  I  was  trying  to  get  at  is  the  extent  of 
the  terror  and  the  etfect  on  the  bourgeoisie  and  the  mass  of  the 
higher  chi.sses;  whether  they  are  forced  to  starve  to  death  or  not? 

Jlr.  SuroNs.  Yes.  We  saw  them  as  walking  shadows  in  the  streets 
of  Petrograd.  I  have  seen  with  my  own  eyes  people  dropping  dead. 
First,  before  they  pass  away  over  there,  their  faces  bloat  up;  and  wq 
had  at  one  time,  when  we  were  not  getting  bread,  an  average  of  60 
horses  dropping  dead  on  the  street. 

Senator  King.  Per  day? 

?i[r.  Si:mons.  Sixty  horses  per  day.  I  have  seen  many  of  them  my- 
self lying  there.  A  Mohammedan  and  a  Jew  came  up,  and  they 
would  dicker  Avith  each  other  before  the  horse  had  gone  to  the  place 
of  his  fathers,  and  they  would  say,  "  If  we  could  keep  him  alive  a 
few  hours  more,  he  would  be  worth  more."  They  would  sell  horse- 
flesh. I  have  seen  people  standing  there — I  recollect  in  one  instance  a 
ni:ii!  in  a  general's  uniform,  a  man  with  a  white  lieard,  stood  on  Bol- 
shoi  Prospect  with  tears  on  his  cheeks,  asking,  "  For  God's  sake,  give 
me  a  few  kopecks.''  Xone  of  the  workmen  would  give  him  any.  He 
stood  there.  I  almost  collapsed  myself,  because  I  had  suffered  my- 
self and  seen  so  much  of  this  diabolical  business,  this  antihuniani- 
tarian  I'egime;  yet  I  wanted  to  see  that.  T  thought  that  would  be 
effective  in  my  book.  And  some  people  of  the  second  and  third  and 
fourth  categories,  who  had  a  few  spare  stamps — we  had  no  coins  any 
more — would  give  him  '20  ov  30  kopecks.  I  Ivavq  been  in  homes  where 
they  had  not  had  any  bread  for  weeks,  and  I  recall  one  case  now ■ 

Senator  King.  Would  these  be  the  bourgeois? 

jMr.  Simons.  Yes.  But  they  were  also  putting  the  screws  on  people 
who  wei-e  not  bourgeois,  but  who  were — I  presume  the  best  thing 
would  be  to  call  them  the  middle  class — people  that  believed  in  the 
use  of  a  clean  handkerchief  once  in  a  while,  having  perhaps  a  gold 
ling;  but  that  immediately  would  put  thcni  under  the  condemnation 
of  being  bourgeois.  I  had  occasion  to  speak  with  people  Avho  were 
woiiving  and  people  who  were  not  bourgeois.  I  interviewed  hundreds, 
and  I  asked  them.  '  Well,  what  do  you  think  of  this  thing  T'  "  Well, 
we  know  that  it  is  first  of  all  German,  and  second,  we  know  that  it  is 
Jewish.  It  is  not  a  Russian  proposition  at  all.  That  became  so 
popular  that  as  you  ujoved  through  the  streets  in  Petrograd  in  July 
and  August  and  September  and  the  beginning  of  October,  openly 
they  would  tell  you  this,  "  This  is  not  a  Russian  Government ;  this  is 
a  German  and  Hebrew  Government."  And  then  others  would  come 
out  and  say,  "And  very  soon  there  is  going  to  be  a  big  pogrom." 
As  a  result  of  that,  hundreds  of  Bolshevik  officials  who  happened  to 
be  Jews  were  sending  their  wives  and  their  children  out  of  Petrograd 
and  Moscow,  afraid  that  the  pogrom  would  really  come.  I  cabled 
something  of  that  in  a  quiet  way  to  our  authorities,  and  it  came  to 
them  through  the  State  Department. 


Senator  Wolcott.  I  gather  from  what  you  say,  Doctor,  that  this 
vhole  regime  over  there  is  sustained  by  a  small  minority  of  these 
slements  that  are  entirely  out  of  sympathy  with  the  great  Russian 
jeople,  and  that  they  are  imposing  their  will  upon  that  nation  by 
iorce  and  terror.    Is  that  correct  or  not? 

Mr.  Simons.  Absolutely  correct,  and  I  have  seen  with  my  own  eyes 
lOw  they  have  been  marching  hundreds  of  people  down  the  Bolslioi 
Prospect,  on  which  our  property  was  situated,  and  I  have  seen  themi 
marching  hundreds  of  them  down  to  the  garden  or  haven,  and  from 
:here  they  were  taken  down  to  Kronstadt  and  put  in  the  fortress 
:here;  and  then  through  members  of  the  Noi'wegian  legation,  tbo 
Danish  legation,  and  the  Swedish  legation,  we  would  learn  that 
scores  of  them  were  being  killed. 
'  Senator  King.  Was  that  a  constant  occurrence? 

Mr.  Si:moxs.  That  was.  Senator,  after  the  assassination  of  Commis- 
sar Uritzky. 

Senator  WoLCOi'-r.  By  the  way,  have  you  ever  had  any  occasion  to 
make  a  rough  estimate  of  the  number  of  murders  committed  by  this 
Bolshevik  regime  from  the  time  they  got  in  the  ascendancy  in  No- 
vember, 1917,  until  the  time  you  left? 

Mr.  Simons.  It  was  almost  impossible  to  get  any  statistics  on  that. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Not  even  approximate? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  would  not  dare  even  to  guess. 

Senator  Wolcott.  In  the  hundreds  or  thousands? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  should  say  that  if  what  they  have  said  in  their 
speeches,  in  their  proclamations,  and  in  their  Bolshevik  press,  would 
be  any  indication,  already  thousands  of  the  bourgeois  class  have  been 
killed ;  because  they  came  out  openly  and  said,  "  For  every  one  of 
the  proletariat  that  is  killed  we  shall  kill  a  thousand  of  the  bourgeois 

Senator  King.  What  do  you  say  as  to  the  starvation,  the  extent  of 
it  among  the  bourgeois  and  the  better  classes  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  They  had  a  system  which  divided  the  population  into 
four  classes.  The  first  category — they  used  the  term  "  category  " — 
was  made  up  of  the  black  workmen's  class.  They  were  to  have  any 
food  that  might  be  available. 

Senator  King.  The  soldiers  came  first,  did  they  not? 

Mr.  SiJcoNs.  And  tlie  Red  army;  yes. 

Senator  King.  Then  the  black  workmen  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  Well,  I  am  speaking  now  of  this  particular  thine: 
they  were  sending  around  to  us.  I  have  a  copy  with  me  here, 'and 
I  could  show  you  that  in  translation.  The  first  category  was  the 
black  workmen's  c1;isr.  That  constituted,  if  you  please,  the  nobility 
of  the  proletariat.  Then  came  the  second  category,  of  men  who  were 
working  in  the  stores  and  offices.  If  anything  was  left  after  the  first 
category  got  theirs,  they  came  in.  Then  came  the  third  category, 
which  included  the  professional  people,  teachers,  doctors,  lawyers, 
clergymen,  artists,  singers,  and  so  on.  I  belonged  to  that  category, 
as  a  pastor.  Then  came  the  fourth  category,  made  up  of  the  property 
owners  and  the  capitalists. 

The  third  and  the  fourth  classes,  they  said  openly  in  their  Bol- 
shevik press  and  proclamations  and  speeches,  were  to  be  starved  out. 
If  I  have  heard  it  and  read  it  once,  I  have  come  across  that  state- 



ment  scores  of  times,  and  they  even  had  cartoons  showing  how  the 
people  of  culture  and  refinement  were  being  treated  like  dogs  who  are 
watching  for  a  crumb  that  falls  from  the  table.  I  have  seen  some 
of  the  most  inhumane  pictures  in  the  month  of  August,  Iflis.  As  a 
member  of  a  category  I  was  entitled  for  the  whole  month  to  one- 
eighth  of  a  pound  of  bread,  and  my  sister  likewise.  Our  head 
deaconess  was  treated  in  the  same  way.  We  were  doing  charitable 
work,  too,  but  all  that  had  no  influence ;  and  the  fact  that  we  were 
trying  to  get  food  into  Eussia,  and  they  Icnew  that  we  were  cabling, 
and  all  that,  did  not  weigh  with  them  at  all.  We  were  simply  put 
in  tlie  same  category.    We  ought  to  be  starved  out. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Let  me  ask  j'^ou :  Suppose  a  workingman  living 
in  Petrograd  had,  by  his  hard  labor,  saved  enough  to  buv  himself  a 
little  home,  and  lived  with  his  wife  and  children  in  his  home,  which 
he  had  been  able  to  buy  by  hard  labor  and  saving  all  his  life,  what 
class  would  he  have  fallen  in? 

Mr.  Simons.  If  he  had  worked  in  a  factory  and  was  a  member  of 
the  factory  unit  in  the  so-called  workmen's  book,  with  his  portrait 
in  it,  that  came  in  under  the  Bolshevik  regime  as  a  substitute  for  the 
passport;  he  would  usually  be  considered  as  a  workman,  and  under 
the  present  Bolsheviki  would  not  be  molested  because  of  owning 

Senator  Wolcott.  Suppose  he  was  not  working  any  longer? 

Mr.  SiiroNS.  If  they  had  suspicions  that  he  had  a  bourgeois  spirit 
and  ideals  and  wanted  to  wear  a  white  shirt  and  to  use  certain  things 
that  we  people  of  refinement  are  accustomed  to,  he  might  fall  into 
disgrace  with  them. 

Senator  Wolcott.  He  would  be  marked  for  starvation,  would  he? 

Mr.  Si:mons.  Well,  now.  that  is  hypothetical.  Judging  from  what 
I  have  seen  there,  I  would  say  that  they  would  mark  him.    I  think  so. 

Senator  Wolcott.  When  a  man  is  marked  for  starvation,  are  his 
wife  and  children  in  the  same  category  with  him,  under  their  way  of 
reforming  the  world  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  You  are  speaking  in  a  general  way.  There  are  ex- 
ceptions over  there.  I  know  of  many  cases  where  even  people  of 
the  third  and  fourth  categories,  by  properly  manipulating  the  subway 
resources,  have  been  able  to  get  almost  everything  they  wanted. 
The  Bolsheviki  official  is  just  as  weak  to  accept  bribes  as  the  officials 
Tvere  under  the  old  regime,  and  if  you  have  enough  monej'  you  can 
have  almost  anything  you  please ;  and  if  you  find  that  you  are  listed 
to  be  arrested  and  killed,  if  you  have  enough  money  your  life  will 
he  spared.  I  have  had  such  cases  under  my  observation.  Money 
talks,  over  there. 

Senator  King.  By  confiscating  property  have  the}'  been  able  to 
get  money  to  pay  their  men  and  soldiers  and  officials? 

Mr.  SisroNS.  I  am  not  informed  as  to  how  much  real  money  they 
got  into  their  hands.  I  understood  that  when  they  rifled  ever  so 
many  safe-deposit  vaults  there  was  a  great  disappointment.  They 
did  not  find  all  the  gold  they  expected  to  get. 

Senator  King.  They  are  using  paper  money  almost  exclusively? 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes ;  but  they  were  after  gold. 

Senator  King.  Has  the  population  of  Petrograd  and  Moscow  been 
largely  reduced  by  reason  of  the  terrorism  and  starvation? 


Mr.  Simons.  The  last  I  heard  was  that  Petrograd,  which  used  to 
have — I  am  speaking  now  of  the  period  under  the  great  war — a 
population  of  over  2,000,000,  and  it  got  up  to  about  2,300,000,  as  I 
recall,  has  dropped  down,  so  we  are  told,  to  600,000  or  800,000. 

Senator  King.  Up  to  the  time  you  left  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  Up  to  the  time  I  left. 

Senator  King.  Could  you  witness  a  great  reduction  in  the  popu- 
lation ? 

Mr.  Simons.  Why,  I  noticed  this,  that  we  had  very  few  of  the 
middle  class  left,  and  of  the  so-called  aristocracy  hardly  any.  At 
that  time  they  were  making  arrangements  to  have  the  working  class 
enter  the  palaces  and  mansions  and  the  fine  homes  and  apartments. 
The  president  of  the  northern  union  came  out  with  a  very  red-hot 
proclamation — I  think  it  was  in  July  or  August,  1918 — in  which  he 
began  by  saying,  "  The  English  have  a  saying,  '  My  house  is  my 
castle.' "  That  was  his  theme.  Then  he  used  a  good  deal  of  inflam- 
matory language,  and  upheld  to  the  hoi  poUoi,  the  proletariat  of 
Eussia,  to  take  what  belonged  rightfully  to  them.  All  property 
belonged  to  the  proletariat.  It  was  the  blood  of  their  forefathers 
and  fathers  and  brothers  and  themselves  that  had  paid  the  price  for 
it,  and  now  they  should  take  what  belonged  to  them;  and  he  closed 
his  proclamation — I  am  only  giving  you  this  as  I  have  it  in  my  mem- 
ory— by  saying,  "  Yes ;  my  house  is  my  castle,  and  the  Eussian  work- 
ingman  is  going  to  defend  it  with  a  gun." 

Senator  Nelson.  Are  Lenine  and  Trotsky  Yiddish? 

Mr.  Simons.  Lenine  is  from  a  very  fine  old  Eussian  family,  so  we 
are  told,  and  is  intellectually  a  very  able  man.  A  fanatic,  he  was 
called  the  brains  of  this  movement.  Trotsky  is  a  Jew.  His  real 
name  is  Leon  Bronstein. 

Senator  King.  Why  are  they  so  bitter  toward  religion,  especially 
the  Christian  religion  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  There  is  a  gentleman  here  in  America  who  last  night 
called  on  me.  Dr.  Harris  A.  Houghton,  I  think  is  his  full  name.  I 
knew  him  out  in  Bay  Side  when  I  was  the  pastor  of  that  church.  He 
called  on  me  last  night.  He  is  a  captain  in  the  United  States  Army. 
1  had  not  seen  him  for  six  years.  He  asked  me  whether  I  knew  any- 
thing about  the  anti-Christian  element  in  the  Bolshevik  regime.  I 
said,  "  Indeed,  I  do.  I  do  know  all  about  it."  He  said,  "  Did  you 
ever  come  across  the  so-called  Jewish  protocols?"  I  said,  "Yes;  I 
have  had  them."  "  I  have  a  memorandum,"  he  said,  "  and  last  win- 
ter after  much  trouble  I  came  into  possession  of  a  book  which  was 
called  '  Eedusti,  anti-Christ.' "  Now,  Dr.  Houghton  in  the  mean- 
time had  investigated  this.  He  had  come  into  possession  of  this 
book,  which  is  quite  rare  now,  because  it  was  said  that  when  the 
edition  came  out  it  was  immediately  bought  up  by  the  Jews  in 
Petrograd  and  Moscow.  That  book  reflects  a  real  organization. 
That  book  is  of  some  consequence.  But  the  average  person  in  official 
life  here  in  Washington  and  elsewhere  is  afraid  to  handle  it. 
Houghton  says  that  even  in  his  intelligence  bureau  they  were  afraid 
of  it. 

Senator  King.  Tell  us  about  the  book.  What  is  so  bad  about  it? 
Is  it  anti-Christian? 


Mr.  Simons.  It  is  anti-Christian,  and  it  shows  what  this  secret 
Jewish  society  has  been  doing  in  order  to  iiiake  a  conquest  of  the 
world,  and  to  make  the  Christian  forces  as  ineffective  as  possible, 
and  finally  to  have  the  whole  world,  if  you  please,  in  their  grip; 
and  now  in  that  book  ever  so  many  things  are  said  with  regard  to 
their  program  and  their  methods,  which  dovetail  into  the  Bolshevik 
regime.     It  just  looks  as  if  that  is  connected  in  some  way. 

Now,  I  have  no  animus  against  the  Jews,  but  I  have  a  great  pas- 
sion for  truth.  If  there  is  anything  in  it,  I  think  we  ought  to  know. 
The  man  who  wrote  it  is  considered  a  truth-loving  man,  a  man  held 
in  the  highest  esteem  by  the  authorities  of  the  Russian  Orthodox 

Senator  King.  Of  course,  that  book  or  any  teachings  in  that  book 
would  not  appeal  to  the  Letts  or  the  Chinese  coolies  or  the  German 
soldiers,  or  to  some  who  are  controlling  these  Bolshevik  mo^'ements. 
What  I  am  trying  to  get  at  is.  for  my  information,  why  Bolshevism 
is  bitterly  opposed  to  all  sorts  of  religion  or  sacraments  of  the  church — 
Christianity;  because  I  suppose  they  recognize  that  Christianity  is 
the  basis  of  law  and  order  and  of  orderly  government.  I  was  Avon- 
dering  if  you  had  discovered  why  they  were  so  bitter  against  Chris- 
tianity, and  if  you  found  that  all  the  Bolsheviks  were  atheistic  or 
rationalistic  or  anti-Christian? 

Mr.  Simons.  My  experience  over  there  under  the  Bolsheviki 
regime  has  led  me  to  come  to  the  conclusion  that  the  Bolsheviki 
religion  is  not  only  absolutely  antireligious,  atheistic,  but  has  it  in 
mind  to  make  all  real  religious  work  impossible  as  soon  as  they  can 
achieve  that  end  which  they  are  pressing.  There  was  a  meeting — I  can 
not  give  you  the  date  offhand ;  it  must  have  been  in  August,  1918^ 
held  in  a  large  hall  that  had  once  been  used  by  the  Young  Men's 
Christian  Association  in  Petrograd  for  their  work  among  the  Rus- 
sian soldiers.  The  Bolsheviki  confiscated  it ;  put  out  the  Y.  M.  C.  A. 
In  that  large  hall  there  was  a  meeting  held  which  was  to  be  a  sort 
of  religious  dispute.  Lunacharsky,  the  commissar  of  people's  en- 
lightenment, as  he  was  called,  and  Mr.  Spitzberg,  who  was  the  com- 
missar of  propaganda  for  Bolshevism,  were  the  two  main  speakers. 
Both  of  those  men  spoke  in  very  much  the  same  way  as  Emma  Gold- 
man has  been  speaking.  I  have  been  getting  some  of  her  literature, 
and  recently  I  have  been  very  much  amazed  at  the  same  line  of  argu- 
mentation with  regard  to  the  attack  on  religion  and  Christianity 
and  so-called  religious  organizations. 

Senator  King.  She,  is  the  Bolshevik  who  has  been  in  jail  in  this 
country  and  who  will  be  deported  as  soon  as  her  sentence  is  over  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  do  not  know  as  she  will  be  deported. 

Senator  King.  I  think  she  will  be. 

Mr.  Simons.  She  ought  to  be  put  somewhere  where  she  can  not 
issue  any  more  of  that  literature.  Lunacharsky  and  Spitzberg  came 
out  with  pretty  much  the  same  things  that  she  has  been  saying  and 
printing.  This  is  one  of  these  theses :  "All  that  is  bad  in  the  world, 
misery  and  suffering  that  we  have  had,  is  largely  due  to  the  supersti- 
tion that  there  is  a  God." 

Senator  King.  I  noticed  in  j^esterday's  paper  that  in  their  schools 
the  children  are  being  taught,  wherever  they  have  schools  at  all, 
positive  atheism.    Did  you  verify  that? 


Mr.  Simons.  Lunacharsky,  as  the  oiRcial  head  of  the  department 
of  education,  commissar  of  the  people's  enlightenment,  said,  "  We 
now  propose  to  enlighten  our  boys  and  our  girls  and  we  are  using  as  a 
textbook  a  catechism  of  atheism  which  will  be  used  in  our  public 
schools."  Yet  he  had  the  audacity  to  say :  "  We  are  going  to  give  all 
churches  the  same  chance."  And  a  priest  replied  to  him,  saying: 
"Then  you  ought  not  to  put  your  catechism  of  atheism  into  the 

Senator  King.  Did  you  find,  then,  that  atheism  permeates  the 
ranks  of  the  Bolsheviki? 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes,  sir.    And  the  anti-Christ  spirit  as  well. 

Senator  Nelson.  In  this  book  that  you  refer  to  is  there  anything 
that  goes  to  show  that  this  Bolshevik  government  of  Russia  are  sup- 
porting, directly  or  indirectly,  this  book  of  protocols  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  Before  answering  that  question  I  should  like  to  see 
that  translation,  because  I  do  not  know  how  this  thing  has  been  done. 

(A  pamphlet  was  handed  to  the  witness.) 

Senator  Nelson.  You  have  seen  the  original  book? 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes.  Some  very  finely  educated  Russian  generals  of 
note  have  told  me  that  they  considered  this  as  an  authentic  thing, 
and  thej'  say  the  marvelous  part  of  it  is  that  nearly  all  of  that  is 
being  executed  under  the  Bolsheviki. 

Senator  King.  Before  you  leave  that,  one  other  question:  I  have 
seen  a  number  of  translations — have  seen  the  Russian  and  the  trans- 
lations of  what  purported  to  be  decrees  or  orders  of  some  of  the 
so-called  Soviets,  in  effect  abolishing  marriage  and  establishing  what 
has  been  called  "  free  love."    Do  you  know  anything  about  that? 

Mr.  Simons.  Their  program  you  will  find  in  the  Communist  Mani- 
festo of  Marx  and  Engel.  Since  we  left  Petrograd  they  have,  if  the 
newspaper  reports  are  to  be  relied  upon,  already  instituted  a  very 
definite  program  with  regard  to  the  so-called  socialization  of  women, 
each  woman  from  18  to  45  being  obliged  to  appear  before  the  com- 
missariat and  be  given,  nolens  volens,  a  man  with  whom  she  shall 

Senator  Nelson.  In  marriage? 

Mr.  Simons.  You  can  call  it  marriage  or  whatever  you  want  to 
call  it.  I  have  seen  a  number  of  people  over  there  under  the  bol- 
shevistic modus  operandi.  One  was  an  American.  He  married  a 
Russian  girl.  He  was  married  in  the  commissariat  and  had  to  an- 
swer a;  few  questions  and  sign  his  name,  and  she  signed  her  name, 
and  among  other  questions  that  they  asked  were  these :  "  How  do 
you  propose  to  be  married?"  "How  many  children  do  you 
propose  to  have  ?  "  And  things  of  that  kind.  And  then  later  he 
came  to  our  headquarters  and  we  married  the  couple  there  in  Rus- 
sian and  English;  and  other  cases  have  come  under  my  observation. 
But  what  they  are  doing  now  I  am  not  in  a  position  to  say,  authorita- 
tively, except  what  has  been  in  the  papers. 

Senator  King.  Doctor,  you  have  read  and  heard  of  and  come  in  con- 
tact with  the  I.  W.  W^.'s  of  this  country,  and  their  destructive  creed, 
their  advocacy  of  the  destruction  of  our  form  of  go^vernment.  I  will 
ask  you  whether  or  not,  from  your  observations  of  the  Bolsheviki 
and  the  I.  W.  W.,  you  see  any  difference? 


Mr.  Simons.  I  am  strongly  impressed  with  this,  that  the  Bolshe- 
viki  and  the  I.  W.  W.  movements  are  identical.  Zorin  told  me,  the 
commissar  of  the  post  and  telegraph 

Senator  Oveema^^  He  had  been  an  American? 

Mr.  Simons.  He  had  been  eight  years  in  New  York,  and  knew 
some  of  our  leaders  here  in  our  own  Methodist  Church. 

Maj.  Humes.  Had  he  been  naturalized  in  this  country? 

Mr.  Simons.  He  had  not;  no.  But  he  said  he  had  been  eight  years 
in  New  York,  and  had  been  in  religious  disputes  with  some  of  our 
own  leaders.  .Zorin  said  to  me,  "  We  have  now  made  our  greatest 
acquisition,  Maxim  Gorky,  who  used  to  be  against  us,  has  come  over 
to  our  side.  He  is  now  with  us  and  has  taken  charge  of  our  literary 
work.  You  know  we  have  conquered  Russia.  We  next  propose  to 
conquer  Germany  and  then  America." 

Senator  Nelson.  A  big  job. 

Senator  King.  Do  you  know  to  what  extent  they  sent  out  their 
representatives  in  the  surrounding  countries  of  Europe,  giving  them 
money  with  which  to  carry  on  the  propaganda  of  Bolshevism? 

Mr.  Simons.  We  had  heard  again  and  again  that  they  had  been 
sending  out  sums  of  money  into  different  parts  of  Europe,  and  when 
nobody  except  people  of  the  diplomatic  class  were  permitted  to  send 
out  anything  at  all  they  were  sending,  day  in  and  day  out,  from 
Petrograd  over  to  Stockholm,  and  over  to  Copenhagen,  large  bags. 
Now,  what  those  bags  contained  we  can  not  say  with  any  surety, 
but  it  is  suspected  that  those  bags  contained  very  likely  Bolshevik 
literature,  and  perhaps  money,  and  perhaps  also  valuables  which 
were  being  confiscated,  because  many  of  the  rare  old  jewels  and 
historic  things  which  have  been  kept  intact  for  decacles  in  the  past, 
and  so  on,  have  disappeared  and  no  one  knows  where  they  are. 

Senator  King.  One  other  question :  Did  you  see  any  coordination, 
if  I  may  use  the  term,  between  the  German  troops,  after  Germany 
sent  troops  into  Eussia,  and  the  Bolshevik  troops,  in  the  Bolshevik 
government  ?    That  is  to  say,  did  you  find  that  they  worked  together  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  was  not  in  a  position  to  follow  that  up,  but  I  have 
heard  that  it  is  true.  I  have  heard  that  from  Eussian  officers  and 
members  of  the  military  mission ;  and  they  used  the  same  kind  of 
literature  in  both  camps. 

Senator  King.  Did  you  learn  whether  or  not  the  Bolsheviki  aided 
the  Germans  as  against  the  allies,  surrendered  them  their  guns  and 
munitions,  and  some  of  M'hich  they  had  been  accumulating  in  the 
Eussian  Army  to  be  used  against  the  allies,  including  the  United 
States?  The  point  I  am  trying  to  get  at  is,  did  any  of  the  munitions 
that  the  Eussian  Army  possessed  when,  through  the  action  of  the 
Bolshevists,  the  armies  were  disintegrated  fall  into  the  hands  of  the 
Gertaians  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  That  statement  has  been  made.  I  do  happen  to  know 
this,  that  came  out  while  I  was  passing  from  Stockholm.  A  man 
who  had  been  in  the  military  mission  at  one  time  and  was  at  last 
working  with  the  war  council  at  Petrograd,  told  me  what  they  had 
discovered  on  a  Eussian  battleship  in  the  Neva ;  that  the  ship  had  the 
archives,  so  called,  of  the  Eussian  Navy,  showing  where  the  forts  and 
fortresses  were,  where  the  mines  were  laid,  and  the  whole  naval  posi- 
tion with  regard  to  Eussia ;  and  that  there  was  found  a  letter  which  • 


had  been  signed  by  Trotsky  to  the  effect  that  under  certain  circum- 
stances the  archives  of  the  Russian  Navy  would  be  turned  over  to 
certain  German  officers. 

Senator  King.  Well,  Doctor,  I  did  not  care  for  hearsay.  What  I 
had  in  mind  was  what  you  Imew  personally. 

Mr.  Simons.  We  knew  that  they  were  preparing  millions  of  rubles 
for  propaganda  purposes  in  China,  for  instance,  in  India,  and  in 
other  parts  of  the  world. 

Senator  King.  South  America? 

Mr.  Simons.  That  appeared  in  their  daily  press.  That  was  well 
known.     They  made  no  secret  of  that. 

Senator  King.  For  the  purpose  of  destroying  all  other  govern- 
ments and  bringing  them  under  Bolshevism  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes,  sir;  and  putting  all  other  institutions  out  of 
commission  that  stood,  if  you  please,  for  the  class  that  they  wanted 
to  destroy.  Lunacharsky  and  Spitzberg  said  in  that  meeting,  and 
they  sent  it  out  in  their  proclamations,  "  The  greatest  enemy  to  our 
proletarian  cause  is  religion.  The  so-called  church  is  simplj^  a 
camouflage  of  capitalistic  control  and  they  are  hiding  behind  it.  and 
in  order  to  have  success  in  our  movement  we  must  get  rid  of  thp 
church."  Now,  a  frank  statement  like  that  seems  to  me  to  indicate 
their  antireligious  and  anti-Christian  animus. 

Senator  King.  Then,  would  this  be  a  fair  statement,  from  your 
knowledge  of  Bolshevism,  that  any  persons  in  this  country,  mis- 
guided or  sinister,  who  get  up  in  theaters  or  other  places  on  the  lec- 
ture platform  and  advocate  Bolshevism  or  defend  it  or  apologize  for 
it,  are  first  approving  the  course  of  the  Bolshevists  in  disintegrating 
the  armies,  to  that  extent  making  the  cause  of  our  Government  and 
of  the  allies  in  defeating  the  central  powers  more  difficult  ?  It  would 
have  that  effect.  The  effect  of  their  conduct  would  be  an  indorse- 
ment of  their  course?  Secondly,  an  indorsement  or  appi*oval  would 
be  the  indorsement  or  approval  of  a  course  of  a  party  that  stands  for 
the  grossest  kind  of  materialism  and  atheism,  and  is  against  marriage, 
against  the  right  of  property,  against  the  democratic  form  of  gov- 
ernment, such  as  that  which  we  have,  and  against  the  civilization 
which  has  been  builded  up  under  our  form  of  government  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  King.  Bolshevism  stands  for  all  those  things?  Its  apolo- 
gists are  our  enemies,  enemies  to  our  country  and  to  our  form  of 
Government  and  to  civilization? 

Mr.  Simons.  Whether  they  know  that  they  are  enemies,  or  they 
have  no  clear  notion  as  to  what  the  American  spirit  means,  I  think  it 
is  safe  to  say  that  they  are  mush-headed  and  muddle-headed. 

Senator  Nelson.  Are  you  acquainted  with  Albert  Rys  Williams, 
who  has  issued  that  pamphlet? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  know  him. 

Senator  Nelson.  Have  you  met  him  in  Russia  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  have  met  him  in  Russia. 

Senator  Nelson.  Can  you  tell  us  about  his  activities  and  whom  he 
associated  with  there? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  do  not  know  whether  it  would  be  wise  for  me  to  say 
what  I  did  see.  I  am  not  sure  whether  he  is  an  American  citizen.  I 
should  first  like  to  know  whether  he  is  an  American  citizen.    A  gen- 


tleman  came  up  to  me  Avhen  I  spoke  before  the  preachers'  meeting  in 
Philadelphia  and  said  that  he  had  learned  that  Williams  was  not  an 
American.    If  he  is  not,  then  I  am  free  to  speak. 

Maj.  Hu^iES.  I  maj'  tell  you  that  he  was  born  in  this  country.  Un- 
less he  has  renounced  his  citizenship  he  is  an  American  citizen. 

Senator  Overman.  He  is  distributing  tliese  pamphlets  on  the  East 
Side  of  New  York  where  Bolshevism  has  been  nourished  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes. 

Senator  Overman.  And  you  were  approached  l\y  this  Yiddish 
fellow  with  this  catechism  in  his  hand  i 

Mr.  Simons.  AYell,  I  only  wish  to  saj'  this,  that  if  he  is  an  Ameri- 
can citizen  I  should  like  to  show  him  the  courtesy  due  one  of  my  com- 
patriots, and  I  do  not  want  to  say  anything  in  your  presence  until 
he  has  had  a  chance  to  speak  for  himself. 

Senator  0^■ERMAN.  He  may  be  able  to  speak  for  himself. 

Senator  King.  Was  he  associating  Avith  the  Soviets  over  there,  and 
making  speeches  for  tliem  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  We  knew  at  that  time  that  he  was  not  only  very  sym- 
loathetic  with  the  Bolsheviki,  but  he  was  helping  them  in  many  ways. 
We  know  that ;  and  he  was  embarrassing  our  own  embassy  and  con- 
sulate in  a  very  effective  way. 

Senator  Nelson.  Perhaps  we  had  not  better  go  into  it  further  now. 
but  we  .would  be  glad  to  hear  you  later  on  this  subject. 

Senator  King.  Just  one  other  question.  I  will  ask  you  whether 
or  not  you  noticed  any  difference  in  the  personnel  of  the  soviet  after 
Lenine  and  Trotsky  got  control;  that  is  to  say,  when  Lenine  and 
Trotsky  came  into  poAver  the  Soviets  existed,  and  as  I  understand  it, 
many  of  the  soA^ets  Avere  elected  by  the  people  and  the  representa- 
tives of  the  Soviets  were  fair  representatives  of  the  people.  Now, 
AA'hat  I  am  trying  to  get  at  is,  after  Lenine  and  Trotsky  came  in, 
whether  or  not  the  personnel  of  the  Soviets  changed.  My  informa- 
tion is,  and  I  want  to  knoAv  Avhether  it  is  correct  or  not,  that  they 
would  frequently  send  out  from  Petrograd  and  Moscoav  their  tools, 
and  they  would  supersede  the  Soviets  in  various  administrations  and 
put  in  men  who  shared  the  views  of  Lenine  and  Trotsky. 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes ;  that  was  a  well-known  fact.  That  came  under 
our  observation  again  and  again. 

Senator  King.  So,  then,  Avhereas  the  soviet  in  the  beginning  might 
be  called  a  fair  representative  of  the  people,  noAv  it  is  merely  a  tool 
of  Lenine  and  Trotsky  and  the  BolsheAdk  administration  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  That  is  correct.  I  happen  to  know  that  shortly  be- 
fore I  left  Eussia  fully  90  per  cent  of  the  peasants  were  anti-Bolshe- 
vik, and  it  Avas  said  by  people  qualified  to  judge  of  the  situation  over 
there  that  fully  three-fourths  of  the  workmen  Avere  anti-Bolshevik, 
and  they  were  hoping  that  Bolshevism  would  soon  be  defeated. 

Senator  Wolcott.  I  want  to  ask  you.  Doctor,  if  during  the  noon 
hour  you  will  refresh  your  recollection  and  be  prepared  when  we 
meet  again  to  give  us  a  list  of  all  the  commissars  that  you  knoAV  or 
did  know,  with  their  correct  names  and  their  assumed  names  and  the 
nationality  of  each  indicated  ?  Make  up  such  a  list,  in  so  far  as  your 
memory  can  carry  you. 

Mr.  Simons.  I  think  I  have  mentioned  the  names  of  those  that  I 
really  know. 


Senator  Wolcott.  None  outside  of  those? 

Mr.  Simons.  There  were  minor  officials. 

Senator  Wolcott.  But  you  can  add  to  them  any  others  you  may 
remember,  as  you  think  over  it. 

(Thereupon,  at  1.30  o'clock  p.  m.,  the  subcommittee  took  a  recess 
until  2.30  o'clock  p.  m.) 


The  subcommittee  met  at  2.30  o'clock  p.  m.,  pursuant  to  the  taking 
of  recess,  and  at  2.40  o'clock  proceeded  with  the  hearing  of  Jtlr. 


Senator  Overman.  Doctor,  I  understood  you  to  say  that  you  be- 
longed to  the  Northern  Methodist  Church  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  The  Methodist  Episcopal  Church  North. 

Senator  Overman.  As  contradistinguished  from  the  South?  And 
you  were  head  not  only  of  your  mission  over  there  but  you  were  the 
head  of  an  educational  institution,  as  I  understand  it? 

Mr.  SuroNS.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Overman.  What  was  the  name  of  that? 

Mr.  Simons.  We  called  it  the  English  School  of  the  American 
Church.  That  was  one  name,  and  we  also  had  a  theological  seminary 
located  there. 

Senator  Overman.  You  had  a  regvdar  curriculum  and  faculty  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  Oh,  yes. 

I  hope  that  I  will  not  be  misunderstood  with  regard  to  the  facts 
that  came  out  in  my  testimony  concerning  the  Jewish  element  in  this 
Bolshevik  movement.  I  am  not  anti-Semitic  and  have  no  sympathy 
with  any  movement  of  that  kind,  and  some  of  my  best  friends  in  Eus- 
sia  and  America  are  Jews,  and  as  I  have  been  moving  around  making 
the  matter  clear  before  large  audiences  in  churches  and  factories, 
many  Jews  have  come  up  and  have  thanked  me  for  having  said  what 
they  regarded  as  true,  and  they  assured  me  that  the  better  class  of 
Jews — and  there  are  hundreds  of  thousands  of  them  in  America — 
would  stand  shoulder  to  shoulder  with  the  Christians  in  fighting  the 
red  flag. 

Senator  Overman.  I  understood  that  all  the  time  you  were  speak- 
ing of  what  is  known  as  the 

Mr.  Simons.  The  apostate  Jews.  I  only  wish  to  be  properly 
quoted,  because  I  should  not  like  to  offend  those  fine  American  citi- 
zens who  happen  to  be  Jews,  for  they  are  just  as  good  morally  every 
way  as  we  Christians  are. 

Senator  Overman.  I  think  our  newspaper  reporters  will  make  that 
understood  in  their  reports,  that  you  are  not  speaking  of  anybody  but 
the  apostates. 

Mr.  Simons.  There  are  hundreds  of  rabbis  who  will  help  us  in 
this  matter.    I  thank  you  for  permitting  me  to  clear  that  up. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Do  you  have  any  names  to  add  to  the  list  I  asked 
you  for? 

Senator  Overman.  There  is  a  lady  here  who  has  a  complete  list  of 
all  those  names. 



Senator  Wolcott.  And  giving  their  nationality,  and  where  they 
are  from? 

Maj.  Humes.  I  think  so. 

Senator  Wolcott.  All  right;  we  will  get  it  from  some  other  wit- 

Senator  Overman.  Did  you  see  this  list  of  names  that  Mrs.  Sum- 
mers handed  in? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  have  seen  at  least  four  different  lists,  and  the  first 
that  came  out  I  have  in  my  possession  here.  This  came  out  about 
August,  1917,  and  was  widely  circulated  in  Petrograd  and  Moscow 
[reading] : 

Real  name. 

1.  Chernoff Von  Gutmann. 

2.  Trotsky Bronstein. 

3.  MartofE Zederbaum. 

4.  Kamkoff Katz. 

5.  Meshkoff Goldenberg. 

6.  Zagorsky Krochmal. 

7.  SuchanofC Gimmer. 

8.  Dan Gurvitch. 

9.  Parvuss Geldfand. 

10.  Kradek Sabelson. 

Real  name. 

11.  ZinovyefE Apfelbaum. 

12.  Stekloff Xachamkes. 

13.  Larin Lurye. 

14.  Ryazanoff Goldenbach. 

15.  Bogdanoff .Tosse. 

16.  Goryeff Goldmann. 

17.  Z\yezdin Wanstein. 

18.  Lieber Goldmann. 

19.  Ganezky Furstenberg. 

20.  Roshal Solomon. 

And  then  the  last  one  did  not  change  his  name.  That  is  the  first 
list  that  we  had. 

Senator  O^'erman.  Do  j'Ou  know  how  many  of  those  came  from 
America  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  do  not.    I  have  not  investigated. 

Senator  Wolcott.  That  is  the  list  of  men  who  were  oiRcially  con- 
nected with  the  Bolshevik  government? 

'  Mr.  Simons.  When  this  statement  came  out  it  was  suggested  that 
'•  These  are  the  men  who  are  now  working  against  the  provisional 
Government  with  might  and  main  and  to  bring  in  the  Bolshevik 
rule."    Other  lists  followed. 

Senator  Overman.  Why  do  you  suppose  they  wanted  to  change 
their  names? 

Mr.  Simons.  Soon  after  the  outbreak  of  the  war  there  were  many 
people  in  Russia  who  had  German  names  and  who  had  them  changed 
to  Russian  names,  because-  there  was  a  strong  anti-German  move- 
ment, and  they  were  very  much  discriminated  against,  and  to  have  a 
German  name  was  in  fact  to  be  insulted  almost  anywhere.  It  took 
some  time  before,  on  the  whole,  that  feeling  subsided.  When  the 
Russian  revolution  came  along  there  was  none  of  that  to  be  seen  any 
more,  and  some  of  these  people  took  their  names  back,  changed  them 
back  from  the  last  form  to  the  old  German  form ;  but  when  the  Bol- 
shevik movement  came  on  we  noticed  that  there  were  ever  so  many 
people  who  were  Jews  and  had  real  Jewish  names,  who  were  not 
using  them.  They  had  assumed  Russian  names.  Now,  there  may  be 
two  or  three  explanations  given  for  that.  One  that  has  been  offered 
now  and  then  is  as  follows:  Some  of  these  men  had  two  or  three 
passports.  You  could  get  a  passport  if  you  needed  it.  from  certain 
agents  in  Russia,  and  we  were  told  that  even  in  New  York  City  there 
were  certain  people  who  were  dealing  in  Russian  passports.  We 
knew  that  there  were  such  people  in  different  parts  of  Europe,  es- 
pecially near  the  German-Russian  border,  and  the  Austro-Hungarian- 
Russian  border,  who  made  a  regular  business  of  selling  or  loan- 


ing  out  Eussian  passports.  A  man  would  take  a  passport  like  that, 
and  then  he  would  use  that  particular  name. 

Now,  that  is  one  explanation.  Another  explanation  given  is  that 
among  the  real  Eussians  there  would  be  an  antipathy  against  the 
Jew,  and  a  man  having  a  real  Jewish  name  would  be  discriminated 

Then  there  is  another  reason  given  by  some  of  our  friends  who  are 
always  up  in  the  literary  world  in  Eussia — and  one  is  a  famous 
editor.  These  have  said  that  perhaps  the  psychology  of  it  could  be 
stated  thus :  We  want  to  make  this  thing  appear  as  a  purely  Eussian 
thing,  and  if  our  real  names,  which  ai'e  nearly  all  Jewish  names,  ap- 
pear, it  will  militate  against  the  success  of  our  experiment  in  social- 
ism and  government.  People — millions  of  real  Eussians — will  say 
'•  That  tiling  is  not  Eussian.    The  names  all  show  that." 

Senator  Overman.  Did  you  know  Trotsky? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  did  not  know  him.  I  have  been  quoted  in  the  papers 
as  having  had  conversations  with  Trotsky  and  Lenine,  and  having 
shown  them  our  discipline.  I  do  not  know  how  that  story  ever  be- 
came current,  because  I  never  said  such  a  thing,  never  wrote  it,  and 
never  dreamed  it,  but  the  newspaper  men  will  sometimes  imagine 

Senator  Overman.  Did  you  hear  him  speak? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  have  not. 

Senator  Overman.  He  did  not  change  his  name? 

Mr.  Simons.  His  name  is  Bronstein. 

Senator  Nelson.  He  is  Yiddish  ? 

Senator  Overman.  Is  he  one  of  these  Yiddish  Jews?  You  call 
them  Yiddish  instead  of  Jews,  and  I  want  to  distinguish. 

Mr.  Simons.  When  we  speak  of  the  lower  East  Side,  we  are  think- 
ing of  hundreds  of  thousands  of  people  who  are  speaking  and  read- 
ing several  other  languages  as  well  as  Yiddish. 

I  might  mention  this,  that  when  the  Bolsheviki  came  into  power, 
all  over  Petrograd  we  at  once  had  a  predominance  of  Yiddish  procla- 
mations, big  posters,  and  everything  in  Yiddish.  It  became  very 
evident  that  now  that  was  to  be  one  of  the  great  languages  of  Eiis- 
sia ;  and  the  real  Eussians,  of  course,  did  not  take  very  kindly  to  it. 

Senator  Nelson.  Now,  I  should  be  glad  to  have  you  describe  the 
Bolshevik  plan  and  system  of  government,  their  scheme  and  plan  of 
government,  and  as  they  proclaimed  it  and  outlined  it  to  the  people. 
This  is  the  second  time  I  have  asked  it. 

Senator  King.  I  want  to  ask,  for  my  own  information,  do  you 
mean  as  they  idealize  it  or  as  they  apply  it  ? 

Senator  Nelson.  Both.  I  want  it  so  far  as  the  written  documents 
are  concerned,  and  as  they  apply  it,  both. 

Mr.  Simons.  So  far  as  the  mechanical  part  of  their  government 
is  concerned,  I  think  they  have  been  quite  consistent  in  carrying  out 
that  end ;  and  as  far  as  their  proclamations  have  been  concerned,  we 
regret  to  say  that  they  not  only  consistently  carry  most  of  them  out 
but  put  in  a  lot  more  than  was  bargained  for,  if  you  please,  and  to 
that  extent  that  all  kinds  of  atrocities  and  cruelties  were  committed 
under  the  authority  of  this  or  that  decree  or  proclamation. 

Senator  Nelson.  What  I  mean  is,  what  is  the  plan  and  scheme 
of  government  that  they  offer  to  the  people  ?  Outline  their  constitu- 


Mr.  Simons.  It  is,  as  you  have  seen  in  most  of  the  papers  here,  a 
government  that  is  to  be,  first,  last,  and  all  the  time,  predominantly 
a  government  of  the  industrial  workers.  It  is  to  be  a  government 
of  the  so-called  "  workmen's  councils,"  and  it  is  a  government  of 
the  proletariat.  ISIany  of  their  phrases  they  have  taken  from  the 
communist  manifesto  of  March,  and  one  in  particular,  "  a  dictator- 
ship of  the  proletariat."'  A  Bolshevik  official  would  be  asked,  "  Well, 
how  about  liberty?"  The  chances  are  that  he  would  answer  as 
Lenine  and  Trotsky  did  on  several  occasions,  ''  We  do  not  believe  in 
liberty.  We  believe  in  the  dictatorship  of  the  proletariat."  Now, 
when  I  ha^  e  mentioned  that,  Senator,  I  have  given  you,  if  you  please, 
the  heart  of  their  government  scheme,  and  everything  moves  around 

The  other  part  is  quite,  to  mj'  way  of  thinking,  of  little  conse- 
quence— the  machinery.  They  have  what  they  call 'the  soviet  govern- 
ment, built  up  on  the  lines  of  a  social  democratic  representation, 
excluding,  of  course,  everybody  that  is  not  Bolshevik.  Or  if  he  is  not 
Bolshevik,  if  he  consefits  to  work  with  them  and  to  just  submerge  his 
own  political  opinions,  well  and  good.  He  can  hold  office.  In  fact,  we 
know  tliat  right  in  Petrograd  and  Moscow  there  were  hundreds  of 
men,  scores  of  them,  like  myself,  who  were  not  Bolsheviks,  that  had 
been  in  certain  ministries  under  the  old  regime,  and  they  had  con- 
tinued under  the  provisional  government,  and  in  order  to  save  their 
own  lives  and  the  lives  of  their  families  and  to  have  food  and  com- 
fort and  what  not,  and  be  protected,  they  remained  in  office,  although 
for  a  time  some  of  them  had  held  out  in  wliat  was  called  sabotage. 
I  knew  some  of  these  men  and  some  of  the  things  that  we  were  able 
to  do.  Favors  that-Avere  shown  us  as  an  American  institution  were 
made  possible  through  men  who  were  anti-Bolshevik,  but  were  in 
the  Bolshevik  government;  and  if  you  will  allow  me  to  go  off 
on  a  tangent — it  has  come  to  my  mind  while  I  am  speaking  at 
random — some  of  these  men  have  told  me,  "We  are  staying  in 
office  in  the  hopes  that  one  of  these  days  Bolshevism  will  weaken  and 
we  shall  be  able  to  play  the  Trojan  horse  trick.  They  still  had  the 
hope  that  something  like  that  would  happen — either  the  allies  would 
come  in  and  do  something  or  something  else  would  happen — and  then 
they  would  be  there.  As  a  matter  of  fact,  one  of  the  greatest  men  of 
Kussia,  with  whom  I  have  had  a  good  deal  to  do — he  was  formerly 
an  editor  of  the  journal  that  was  considered  semiofficial — told  me 
shortly  before  I  left,  "  Strange  to  say,  I  have  been  trying  to  get  to 
Kiev  all  these  weeks,  and  I  have  had  to  go  through  more  red  tape 
than  under  the  old  regime,  and  in  their  so-called  department  for  in- 
vestigating the  character  of  the  applicant,  I  found  the  same  officials 
seated  at  the  desks  as  under  the  old  regime.  I  recognized  them  and 
they  recognized  me  and  they  smiled." 

Now,  they  were  not  Bolsheviks  -at  all.  I  knew  it.  I  had  occasion 
to  get  a  certain  permission  prior  to  leaving  Russia,  and  it  was  after 
the  regular  hours  and  I  rushed  into  that  one  ministry  and.  lo  and 
behold,  I  found  one  of  the  most  active  of  the  anti-Bolslieviks  holding 
a  prominent  position  there,  and  he  said,  "Why,  I  will  get  that 
through  for  you,"  and  he  did.  He  said,  "  You  know  I  am  not  Bol- 
shevik. I  have  been  trying  all  these  months  to  get  out  of  Eussia." 
So  there  are  hundreds  of  them. 


Senator  OvEEistAN.  What  is  the  character  of  the  nionev  thev  issue 
there  ? 

Mr.  SiMoxs.  They  have  jiow  been  issuing  hirgelv  small  currency, 
which  is  stamps.  That  [indicating]  is  a  1-kopeck  stamp.  On  the 
other  side  it  says,  "  To  be  used  on  a  par  with  metal  money."  Then 
they  have  what  they  call  "  kerenki,"  little  bits  of  paper'  about  an 
inch  and  a  half  or  2  inches  square,  without  any  registration  num- 
ber, simply  "  20,"  and  then  a  little  .statement  to  the  effect  that  it 
is  to  be  honored  as  legal  tender,  and  then  the  other  denomination  is 
"  40  " — stamped  20  rubles  and  40  rubles  kerenki.  It  became  almost 
valueless  and  the  people  would  not  accept  them  any  more. 

Perhaps,  Senator  Overman,  the  committee  would  like  to  know 
what  happened  to  us  as  we  tried  to  get  over  the  border,  with  regard 
to  our  money.  The  ruling  of  the  Bolshevik  government  Avas  that 
no  one  leaving  Eussia.  even  though  he  were  a  foreigner,  had  a  right 
to  take  more  than  1,000  rubles  with  him.  The  old  money  had  largely 
disappeared,  but  still  could  be  bought  at  a  premium  of  10  rubles  on 
a  hundred.  So  a  couple  of  weeks  before  we  left  1,000  rubles  of  the 
old  money  would  cost  1,100  rubles. 

Senator  Kixg.  That  is  the  other  way,  is  it  not  ? 
Mr.  SiMOKS.  Xo;  wait  a  second;  it  was  20  rubles  on  a  hundred. 
So  I  bought  1,000  rubles  of  old  Russian  money,  Catherine  bills, 
those  famous  old  bills  with  Catherine's  portrait  invisible — you  would 
have  to  hold  it  up  to  the  light  and  then  you  could  see  it;  they  are 
very  rare  now,  but  by  paying  a  premium  of  20  rubles  you  could  get 
them — I  bought  1,000  rubles'  worth  and  paid  1,200  rubles  in  kerenki. 
Also  for  my  sister  I  tried  to  get  the  same  amount.  When  we  reached 
the  Russian-Finnish  border,  we  were  held  up  by  a  Bolshevik  official, 
who  took  out  his  own  pocketbook,  opened  it,  and  began  to  count 
out  in  kerenki  2,000  rubles.  They  made  a  very  thorough  search  of  my 
sister  and  myself,  such  as  had  never  been  made  under  the  provisional 
government,  or  even  under  the  old  regime,  and  they  discovered  that 
we  had  this  amount.  They  wanted  me  to  sign  up  on  certain  blanks, 
and  what  not,  and  when  they  discovered  that  we  had  2,000  rubles  of 
good  old  Russian  money  the  officer  began  to  count  out  the  kerenki 
and  said  to  us,  "  You  can  not  take  out  that  old  money.  That  is 
against  the  law."  I  said  to  him,  "  Is  not  that  regular  Russian 
money  ?  "  "  Yes,  it  is ;  but  we  can  not  let  you  take  it  out,  and  here 
you  have  2,000  in  kerenki.''  I  looked  at  him — he  was  a  young  man 
about  20  or  21,  and  looked  like  a  rogue — and  I  said,  "  Young  man, 
I  have  been  told  by  Zorin,  the  Commissar  of  the  Post  and  Telegraph, 
that  if  any  disagreeable  things  happened  to  me  on  the  border,  I  might 
telephone  or  telegraph  him  and  he  would  straighten  things  out."  He 
then  grew  pale,  and  telephoned  to  a  gentleman  higher  up,  who  was 
on  the  next  floor,  and  said  that  he  had  a  difficult  case  here,  and 
this  was  an  Ameiican  clergyman  who  had  2,000  rubles  in  Russian 
money,  which  he  said  he  could  not  take  out,  but  then  this  clergy- 
man had  said  that  Zorin  was  going  to  come  to  his  assistance  if  there  • 
was  any  trouble;  and  quick  as  a  flash  he  took  back  his  kerenki  and 
he  says,  "  You  can  have  your  money." 

Senator  Ovebman.  How  much  in  our  money  is  this  stamp  ? 
Mr.  Simons.  The  Russian  ruble  when  h.A.  wc  were  there  was  worth 
10  cents.     We  could  get  10  rubles  for  $1. 
85723—19 10 


Senator  Xelson.  In  normal  times  how  much  was  it  I 

]Mr.  SiMuNs.  A  ruble  was  abont  51  cents,  so  we  roughly  speak  of  a 
half  a  cent  for  a  kopeck. 

Senator  Xelson.  There  are  100  kopecks  in  a  ruble '? 

Mr.  SuroNS.  Yes. 

Senator  Xelson.  A  ruble  is  in  round  numbers  a  half  a  dollar? 

Mr.  SiiiONs.  Yes.     It  is  now  worth  about  10  cents  or  less. 

Senator  Overmax.  How  much  is  that  in  our  mone}',  that  kopeckf 

Mr.  SiJioNS.  Well,  that  would  be  about  one-twentieth  of  a  cent. 

Senator  King.  The  Bolshevik  government  has  issued  a  large 
amount  of  paper  money,  has  it? 

Ml'.  SijioNs.  Yes;  very  much. 

Senator  King.  Going  into  the  billions  of  rubles  ? 

]Mr.  SiJioNs.  Yes.  sir. 

Senator  Overjian.  Is  it  a  misdemeanor  or  felonj-  not  to  take  that 
money?     Suppose  a  man  declines  to  take  it? 

]Mr.  Simons.  Yes;  they  have  decrees,  I  understand,  to  that  effect. 
The  peasants  got  so  disgusted  with  them  that  they  would  not  t.ike 
them  any  more.  But  it  was  no  use ;  they  were  obliged  to,  and  that  of 
course  put  up  the  prices  of  commodities  very  much,  a  pound  of  but- 
ter selling  for  a  hundred  rubles. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Was  there  any  attempt  made  by  the  leaders  of 
this  Bolshevik  movement  to  spread  in  a  systematized  waj'  these 
immoral  ideas  to  which  you  referred  this  morning  ? 

Mr.  SiJioxs.  It  came  under  mj'  observation  that  often  in  an 
avowed  way,  quite  a  self-evident  way,  immoral  forces  were  being 
encouraged.  I  will  try  to  be  guarded  in  my  remarks,  knowing  that 
there  are  ladies  here. 

Senator  Overman.  Had  we  not  better  take  that  question  up  later 
and  ask  the  ladies  to  retire  ? 

Senator  Wolcott.  The  doctor  knows  what  he  wants  to  say  and 
he  can  say  it. 

IMr.  Simons.  Let  me  use  a  concrete  case.  I  will  try  to  say  the 
thing  in  a  way  that  will  not  be  offensive  to  anybody.  A  few  days 
before  I  left,  the  president  of  our  Ladies'  Aid  Society,  a  scholarly 
woman  who  has  been  a  teacher  for  more  than  25  years  in  one  of  the 
famous  imperial  institutions,  called  on  me.  I  will  not  give  you  the 
name  of  the  institute  because  I  would  like  to  reserve  that  for  some 
other  occasion,  as  I  do  not  want  this  to  get  into  the  press  and  back  to 
Russia.  She  said^  bursting  into  sobs,  "  You  know  what  a  fine  big 
building  we  have.  I  want  you  to  tell  the  women  of  America  this," 
she  said  with  much  emotion,  as  she  buried  her  face  in  her  hands. 
'•  I  am  sorry  I  lived  to  witness  all  this."  I  said.  "  This  is  so  distress- 
ing to  you  that  you  had  better  not  try  to  tell  me.  Write  it  out  and 
send  it  to  me  some  time."  But  she  said, '"  No ;  I  must  tell  you."  She 
said,  "  On  the  first  floor  of  our  spacious  institute,  which  used  to  be 
a  palace,  you  know  those  large  rooms  that  we  have  on  the  first  floor. 
These  Bolshevik  officials  have  put  hundreds  of  red  soldiers,  sailors, 
and  marines  of  the  red  army  and  the  red  navy  and  given  orders  that 
in  the  other  half  of  the  same  floor  the  girls  of  our  institute  should 
remain,  girls  who  are  from  12  to  16  years."  This  affected  her  so 
much  that  she  burst  out  into  tears.  "  I  wish  I  had  died  before  I 
witnessed  all  this.    But  I  want  you  to  tell  the  women  of  America." 


Senator  Wolcott.  Just  a  moment.  That  was  not  the  doing  of 
just  an  irresponsible  crowd  of  soldiers,  or  of  a  soldier  mobi  That 
was  the  arrangement,  do  I  imderstand  you  tc]oay,  of  the  Bolshevik 
officials  ?  ' 

Mr.  Simons.  That  came  under  their  admiiiistration. 

Senator  King.  Of  course,  that  meant  that  these  poor  girls  were 
left  to  the  brutal  lust  of  the  red  guards  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  You  can  draw  your  own  conclusions. 

Senator  King.  Was  there  any  doubt  about  that,  that  it  was  the 
purpose  of  it  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  have  seen  so  much  of  it  that  I  would  have  to  say 
yes  to  what  you  ask. 

Senator  King.  Is  there  any  doubt  of  it? 

Mr.  Simons.  No  doubt  in  my  mind.  I  am  a  little  distressed  here 
because  of  the  presence  of  ladies. 

Senator  King.  You  are  stating  it  in  a  proper  way.  There  is  noth- 
ing improper  in  stating  that  you  have  observed  brutality  and 

Mr.  SiJioNS.  They  are  the  dirtiest  dogs  I  have  ever  come  across  in 
my  4.5  years.  They  are  so  nasty  that  I  can  not  find  words  to  express 
mj  feelings.  Some  people  have  asked  me  if  I  was  not  exaggerating, 
and  I  tell  them  no,  to  go  over  there  and  see  with  their  own  eyes. 
Some  of  our  own  people  are  there  as  witnesses. 

Well,  she  then  went  on  and  said,  "  But  that  is  not  all.  The  other 
day  the  assistant  of  Lunacharsky,  who  was  the  Commissar  of  the  Peo- 
ple's Enlightenment,  happened  to  be  with  a  group  of  our  girls  from 
our  institute  in  a  movie  on  the  Nevski  Prospect,  and  he  turned 
around  to  those  little  girls  of  12  and  15  and  16  years  and  said,  '  Lit- 
tle girls,  where  are  your  bridegrooms?  '  And  they  flushed  and  said, 
'  We  have  no  bridegrooms.'  '  Why  don't  you  go  on  the  Nevski  Pros- 
pect and  do  as  the  prostitutes  are  doing  and  get  yourself  one  ?  ' " 

Excuse  me  for  repeating  these  words. 

Senator  King.  As  far  as  I  am  concerned,  I  think  that  individual 
acts  would  be  material  onljr  as  they  reflect  the  conduct  of  the  whole 
organization.  I  would  not  want  to  blame  the  Bolsheviki  for  the 
misdeeds  of  any  individuals.  If  they  are  the  acts  of  the  individuals 
it  would  not  be  right  to  blame  the  Bolsheviki  for  that,  but  if  those 
acts  are  the  acts  of  the  entire  organization,  or  supported  by  the 
organization,  that  would  be  relevant.    Do  you  get  the  distinction  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  All  right.  I  can  only  give  you  concrete  examples. 
The  tenor  of  the  whole  regime,  of  course,  has  been  quite  immoral. 
There  is  no  getting  away  from  that. 

Senator  King.  Well,  to  be  frank,  do  the  Bolshevik  guards  and  the 
Bolshevists,  the  males,  rape  and  ravish  and  despoil  women  at  will  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  They  certainly  do.  We  happen  to  know  that  the 
Lett  regiment  which  Trotsky  has  been  courting  assiduously  for 
months  refused  to  go  to  the  front,  and  remained  near  the  Tsarskoe 
Selo  Vogzal,  or  railroad  station,  and  were  there  living  on  the  fat 
of  the  land,  and  the  sanitar  for  that  regiment — I  will  not  mention 
his  name  as  he  was  a  personal  friend  of  mine  and  I  must  not  get 
him  into  trouble — reported  these  things  to  me,  and  he  said  that  when 
there  was  a  scarcity  of  bread  in  town — many  of  us  had  not  had 
bread  for  weeks — they  were  having  2  pounds  a  day,  three  days  l)?fore 


Trotskj'  came,  and  they,'  were  told.  "  You  will  also  have  pancakes, 
2  pounds  of  bi'ead  arday.  and  extra  flour;  and  then  when  Trotslrp 
comes  there  is  lioino-  tf  be  an  extra  celebration,"  and  they  did  have  it. 
And  then  he  said  "  Everythini;-  in  Petrograd  belongs  to  you."  I  hate 
to  say  it,  but  their  boast  was  that  they  could  have  all  the  women  they 
wanted,  and  they  could  break  into  the  houses  with  impunity. 

.Senator  Ki>(;.  Did  they  pay  the  soldiers  large  sunis  of  money  to 
keep  them  in  the  army  I 

Mr.  SiJio^'S.  The  reds  were  being  given  an  extra  wage.  I  under- 
stand, and  were  shown  extra  favors. 

Senator  King.  Senator  Wolcott  asked  you  about  their  propaganda. 
Do  j'ou  know  what  efforts  they  made  to  extend  their  propaganda 
into  other  countries '. 

ilr.  Simons.  The  statement  was  made  again  and  again  and  vouched 
for  by  people  of  high  standing  in  Russia  and  over  in  the  Scandi- 
navian countries,  to  the  effect  that  down  in  Leipzig  they  were  printing 
Russian  money  for  the  Bolshevik  government.  I  have  not  been  able 
to  get  any  substantiation  for  that.  But  I  got  this  from  a  man  who 
was  in  the  military  mission  of  one  of  the  allies,  and  he  said  that 
10,000,000  rubles  had  been  printed  in  Leipzig  by  order  of  the 
Bolshevik  government,  for  progapanda  purposes. 

Senator  King.  Do  you  know  of  people  who  were  in  Russia  going 
into  other  countries  and  engaging  in  Bolshevik  progapanda?  For 
instance,  John  Reed;  do  you  know  of  his  having  been  there? 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes. 

Senator  King.  Do  j^ou  know  whether  he  came  to  the  United  States 
and  engaged  in  Bolshevik  propaganda  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  have  not  investigated  that. 

Senator  King.  Did  he  come  to  the  United  States  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  He  came  to  the  United  States;  yes. 

Senator  King.  Do  you  Imow  a  woman  who  calls  herself  ^liss 
Bryant?     She  was  his  wife? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  know  of  her. 

Senator  King.  Was  she  in  Russia,  and  did  she  and  Mr.  Reed  asso- 
ciate with  the  Bolshevists? 

Mr.  SiitoNs.  They  were  reported  to  be  very  close  to  them,  and 
were  spending  a  great  deal  of  time  in  the  Smolny  Institute. 

Senator  King.  Did  you  know  that? 

Mr.  Simons.  That  was  generally  known  in  Petrograd. 

Senator  King.  How  long  did  you  know  of  their  being  there? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  could  not  answer  that  off-hand,  because  I  did  not 
have  any  particular  interest  in  following  them  up,  and  did  not  know 
that  they  would  figure  in  this  thing. 

Senator  King.  Is  she  the  woman  who  spoke  in  Poll's  Theater  under 
the  name  of  Miss  Bryant  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  understand  she  is  the  same  woman. 

Senator  King.  Do  you  know  whether  Mr.  Reed  is  still  in  this 
country  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  understand  so. 

Senator  King.  Major,  he  is  under  indictment,  is  he  not? 

Maj.  Humes.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  King.  He  was  there  connected  with  the  Bolsheviki? 


Mr.  Simons.  He  was  persona  grata  with  the  Bolshe\'ik  .govern- 
ment to  the  extent  that  they  wanted  to  make  him  their  representative 
here  in  Kew  York. 

Senator  King.  By  the  genuine  Americans  who  were  there,  Avas  lie 
regarded  as  an  American  or  aa  a  Bolshevik? 

Mr.  Simons.  As  a  Bolshevik.  We  had  a  number  of  those  Bolshe- 
vik sympathizers  there,  and  we  thought  ot  them  as — let  me  use  the 
proper  expression — mush-headed  and  muddle-headed. 

Senator  Overman.  Do  you  know  of  anybody  being  sent  to  this 
country  by  the  Bolsheviki  for  propaganda  purposes  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  have  no  direct  proof. 

Maj.  Humes,  Doctor,  do  you  know  whether  or  not  any  of  these 
Americans  were  exercising  the  rights  of  Russian  citizenship  and  are 
exercising  the  rights  of  Russian  citizenship  under  the  constitution 
of  Russia? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  can  not  speak  as  an  official  investigator,  but  it  has 
been  brought  to  my  attention  that  some  of  those  men  who  were  over 
there  had  Russian  passports  and  also  American  passports. 

Maj.  Humes.  I  call  your  attention  to  a  section  of  the  constitu- 

Senator  King.  You  mean  the  Bolshevik  constitution? 

Maj.  Humes.  The  Bolshevik  constitution.    [Reading:] 

Basing  Its  actions  upon  tlie  idea  of  solidarity  of  tlie  toilers  of  all  nations,  tlie 
R.  S.  F.  S.  R.  grants  all  political  rights  of  Russian  citizenship  to  foreigners,  who 
live  upon  the  territory  of  the  Russian  Republic,  are  engaged  in  productive  occu- 
pations and  who  belong  either  to  the  working  class  or  to  the  peasant  class  that 
do  not  exploit  the  labor  of  others. 

Is  that  the  provision  of  the  constitution  that  makes  it  possible  for 
American  citizens  to  go  over  there  and  participate  in  the  Russian 
Government  as  Russian  citizens  and  exercise  all  the  rights  of  citi- 
zenship ? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  should  say  so,  without  being  unfair  to  any  of  my 
compatriots.  One  case  was  brought  to  my  attention  within  the  last 
six  months,  when  an  American  was  seriously  thinking  of  becoming 
a  citizen  of  the  ^o-called  Bolshevik  Russia.  I  do  not  want  to  mention 
his  name,  though. 

Senator  Wolcott.  You  do  not  know  it  as  a  matter  of  fact?  Of 
course,  ii  you  know  as  a  matter  of  fact  you  would  be  glad  to  tell 
his  name,  I  suppose. 

Mr.  Simons.  If  it  is  desired,  I  could  tell  you  in  executive  session 
who  he  was. 

Senator  Wolcott.  If  I  knew  that  there  was  such  a  man  who  was 
desiring  to  acquire  citizenship  with  that  outfit,  I  should  be  glad  to 
tell  it.    If  you  are  only  informed  of  it,  that  is  another  matter. 

Mr.  Simons.  I  will  tell  you  in  executive  session  who  it  was. 

Senator  Kiia!.  Then,  if  we  determine  it  is  proper  for  the  record, 
it  will  go  in. 

Mr.  Simons.  I  have  pretty  good  proof  that  there  was  some  con- 

Maj.  Humes.  Is  there  any  formality  required  in  order  to  acquire 
Russian  citizenship?  The  constitution  automatically,  apparently, 
forces  it  on  residents  in  Russia. 

Mr.  Simons.  I  have  not  seen  the  operation  of  that,  at  all,  and  do 
not  know  the  modus  operandi  in  actual  operation. 


Senator  Kix<;.  You  kne^v  Mr.  Albert  Rhys  Williiinis  there,  who 
spoke  with  IMrs.  John  Reed  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes. 

Senator  King.  Do  you  know  whether  he  was  participating  in  any 
meetings  Mith  the  Bolshe-^iki ? 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes,  he  was;  he  was  taking  part  in  their  meetings 
there.    He  -nas  reported  first  in  the  jpapers  as  having  taken  part. 

Senator  King.  Was  he  making  speeches  in  favor  of  Bolshevism,  in 
their  meetings,  or  combating  their  views  ? 

Mr.  SiJioNs.  Certainly  not  combating.  He  was  heart  and  soul  with 
them.  I  met  him  a  number  of  times  in  our  embassy  and  also  in  our 
consulate.  When  I  happened  to  express  myself  in  a  very  strong  way 
against  the  Bolsheviki,  he  was  on  the  other  side. 

Senator  King.  Defending  them? 

Mr.  SiJiONS.  Speaking  in  very  tender  terms  of  them. 

Senator  King.  Do  you  know  how  long  he  associated  with  them 
there  ? 

Mr.  SiJiONs.  I  think  he  was  associated  with  them  almost  from  the 
incipiency  of  that  movement. 

Senator  King.  Did  he  pretend  to  be  a  Red  Cross  representative  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  No;  he  Avas  a  journalist.  But  there  was  another  Wil- 
liams who  re^Dresented  the  Christian  Herald.  I  should  not  like  to 
have  him  taken  for  this  one.  He  spoke  in  our  church  once.  He  is  a 
fine  Christian  gentleman,  100  per  cent  American.  I  hope  no  one  will 
confuse  the  two. 

Senator  King.  Did  Mr.  Albert  Rhys  Williams  tell  you  that  when 
he  left  there  he  was  coming  back  to  the  United  States,  or  did  you  learn 
from  him  in  any  way  that  he  was  to  return  to  the  United  States? 

Mr.  SiJiONS.  The  last  time  I  met  him  was  in  the  embassy,  and 
things  Mere  then  topsy  turvy.  My  recollection  is  that  he  was  going 
back  to  the  front  to  investigate  things.    That  is  as  I  recall. 

Senator  King.  Do  you  know  when  he  left  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  do  not. 

Senator  King.  Do  you  know  about  his  landing  in  San  Francisco? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  do  not. 

Senator  King.  Do  you  know  the  character  of  literature  that  he 
brought  with  him? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  understood  that  lie  brought  some  literature  over 
which  was  partly  in  Russian,  partly  in  English,  and  it  was  Bolshevik 
literature,  supporting  the  soviet  government. 

Senator  Overman.  Did  Raymond  Robins  participate  in  any  of 
these  Bolshevik  meetings? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  do  not  know.  He  is  spoken  of  very  highly  by  the 
Bolshevik  leaders. 

Senator  Wolcott.  They  liked  him.  did  they? 

Mr.  Simons.  Well,  judging  from  some  of  the  things  said  concern- 
ing him,  he  was  reputed  to  be  the  best  American  of  all. 

Senator  King.  Give  the  names  of  some  other  Americans  over  there 
that  you  know  of  who  affiliated  with  the  Bolsheviki. 

Mr.  Simons.  I  do  not  know  whether  it  would  be  fair  to  answer  the 
question  offhand,  because  of  that  expression  "  affiliated." 

Senator  King.  I  will  withdraw  that  question.  I  would  not  want 
to  do  any  injustice  to  anybody.     Do  you  know  of  any  Americans  over 


there  now,  or  those  that  may  not  be  Americans  but  -who  are  now  in 
here  apologizing  for  or  speaking  for  or  carrying  on  any  propaganda 
for  the  Bolsheviki  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  reserve  my  answer  to  that  for  executive  session,  for 
1  should  not  like  to  be  quoted  as  having 

Senator  Overman.  We  have  had  some  trouble  about  giving  names. 
Perhaps  we  had  better  reserve  it  for  an  executive  session. 

Senator  King.  I  want  to  say  tliat,  as  far  as  I  am  concerned,  these 
hearings  shall  be  absolutely  public,  and  whatever  you  tell  us,  I  would 
feel  that  it  ought  to  be  made  public  after  you  have  verified  it,  because 
everybody  ought  to  know  just  what  this  committee  does.  But  I  am 
speaking  for  myself.    I  withdraw  the  question  now. 

Maj.  Humes.  With  reference  to  the  treaty  between  the  Bolshevik 
government  and  the  German  Government,  was  tliat  treaty  ever 
published  in  full  in  the  Bolshevik  papers,  so  that  the  people  of 
Eussia  could  know  all  of  the  facts  in  connection  with  that  treaty  I 

Mr.  SiMOxs.  The  statement  was  made  again  and  again  by  well- 
informed  people  in  Russia  that  the  treaty  had  not  been  fully  pub- 
lished, ancl  that  the  Eussian  translation  which  came  out  was  a  very 
poor  piece  of  work.  And  then  it  was  said  that  another  translation 
would  be  made.  But  even  then  it  was  an  open  question  whether  or 
no  the  full  treaty  had  been  made  public.  It  always  came  out  that 
Lenine  and  Trotzky  had  kept  certain  things  secret.  What  those 
things  were  we  never  learned. 

Maj.  Humes.  Do  you  know  the  capacity  in  which  Albert  Ehys 
Williams  came  to  this  country  from  the  Bolshevik  government? 
What  is  his  capacity  to-day  in  this  country  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  could  not  add  any  word  from  personal  informa- 
tion, but  from  what  I  have  found  in  the  press  and  what  I  have  heard 
from  certain  people  who  claim  to  know — I  have  been  investigating 
this  thing — he  is  a  self-confessed  representative  of  Lenine  and 
Trotsky  in  this  country. 

Maj.  Humes.  And  came  over  to  organize  a  representative  informa- 
tion bureau  in  this  country,  did  he  not,  in  behalf  of  the  Bolshevik 
government  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  understood  that  he  had  work  of  that  nature  to  do. 

Senator  Overman.  Is  that  the  man  who  spoke  here? 

Maj.  Humes.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson  asked  you  a  few  moments  ago  with  reference  to 
the  form  of  government,  in  regard  to  the  representation.  Is  the 
representation  in  their  Soviets  and  their  several  bodies  proportioned 
uniformly  over  the  coimtry,  or  do  they  discriminate  in  different 
districts  ? 

Senator  Nelson.  He  has  not  answered  my  question,  yet. 

Maj.  Humes.  No;  I  realize  that.  Senator. 

Mr.  Simons.  Why,  it  came  out  again  and  again  that  they  were 
putting  in  dummy  delegates  and  controlling  certain  places  by  send- 
ing down  their  own  Bolshevik  agitators,  and  what  not,  and  thus 
suppressing  an  anti- Bolshevik  movement,  which  seemed  quite  immi- 
nent in  certain  parts  of  the  so-called  Bolshevik  country.  We  hap- 
pen to  know  that  there  were  villages  in  and  around  Petrograd  and 
Moscow — I  have  talked  with  a  lot  of  people  who  had  instant  infor- 
mation on  this — where  the  people  were  anti-Bolshevik,  but  that  the 


Bolshevik  authorities  had  a  way  of  manipuhiting  things  so  that 
everything  would  look,  at  least  on  paper,  as  if  the  Bolsheviki  were 
ruling  everything  in  sight.  But,  as  a  matter  of  fact,  there  were 
scores  of  villages  which  would  not  even  let  a  Bolshevik  official  come 
into  the  precincts  of  the  village.  They  had  machine  guns  on  either 
end  of  the  main  road  which  would  go  through  the  village.  Now,  I 
have  spoken  with  people  who  came  from  the  villages.  "We  had 
churches  in  some.  They  said  that  they  had  guards  watching  day  and 
night,  and  the  moment  a  Bolshevik  hove  in;  sight  the}-  would 
kill  him.  And  they  had  a  regular  system  by  which  they  were  keep- 
ing the  Bolsheviki  away. 

Senator  King.  As  a  matter  of  fact,  up  to  the  present  moment  the 
Bolshevik  government  is  merely  a  military  dictatorship  under  the 
rule  of  Leniiie  and  Trotsky? 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes.  And  they  are  using  their  dictatorship  to  put 
the  proletariat  in  harmony  with  the  communist  manifesto  in  order 
to  please  the  hoi  polloi. 

Maj.  Humes.  The  point  that  I  was  raising  is,  is  it  not  a  fact 
that  the  representation  in  the  old  Russian  soviet  was  based  on  1  to 
each  125,000  people  in  the  cities,  while  the  representation  is  1  to 
25,000  people  in  the  provincial  districts  and  the  less  thickly  popu- 
lated districts? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  have  not  gone  into  that. 

Senator  Xelson.  Well,  the  Russian  farmers  are  settled  in  villages, 
mostly  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes;  as  a  rule. 

Senator  Xelson.  And  their  village  communities,  or  mirs,  as  I  be- 
lieve they  call  them. 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  And  they  own  the  land,  do  they  not;  the  mir 
owns  the  land? 

^Ir.  Simons.  Yes;  and  it  is  parceled  out. 

Senator  Nelson.  Parceled  out  for  use  from  time  to  time? 

!Mr.  Simons.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  Now,  each  of  those  mirs  is  supposed  to  have  its 
own  soA'iet  system  of  government,  to  elect  a  local  soviet  council,  is 
it  not? 

]Mr.  Simons.  That  is  the  scheme. 

Senator  Nelson.  That  is  part  of  the  scheme.  And  the  same  thing 
takes  place  in  cities  or  wards  or  sections  of  cities,  in  proportion  to 
population  ?    They  Iuia'c  also  local  Soviets  I 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  And  these  local  so\iets  send  representatives  to 
the  general  soviet  assembly. 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  And  that  constitutes  the  soviet  government? 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  A  good  share  of  the  farmers  or  the  peasants,  we 
Diight  call  them,  are  not  in  this  soviet  government;  that  is,  I  mean, 
the  Bolshevik  soviet  government? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  can  not  tell  you  what  percentage  of  the  villages  are 
Qot  talring  part  in  that  Bolshevik  government,  in  the  Bolshevik 


territory.  But  it  is  generally  stated  bj'  people  Avho  know  something 
about  the  Russian  situation,  and  nearly  all  of  us  Americans  who 
came  out  about  the  same  time  are  a  unit  in  saying,  that  fully  90  pvr 
centof  the  peasants  are  anti-Bolshevik.  From  that  you  would  con- 
clude that  they  would  not'  take  part  in  the  Bolshevik  go\'ernment. 
And  another  statement  made — I  think  1  made  it  this  morning — is  that 
at  least  two-thirds  of  the  Avorkmen  are  ant'i-Bolshevik. 

Senator  Nelson".  Noav.  have  not  the  anti-Bolshevik  forces — and 
in  that  I  include  the  Czecho- Slovaks,  the  sound  Russians,  and  the 
English,  and  French,  and  the  Japanese — have  they  not  practical 
control  of  the  Siberian  railroad  as  far  west  as  Perm — west  to  Omsk? 

Mr.  Simons.  Well,  I  am  not  qualified  to  tell  you  how  things  stand 
there  to-day.  I  am  not  omniscient.  But  from  what  I  have  learned 
all  these  months,  I  judge  that  they  do  hold  control  there. 

Senator  Nelson.  Have  you  visited  the  southern  part  of  Russia, 
the  Ukrainian  country? 

Mr.  Simons.  Not  recently.  It  was  almost  impossible  to  get  down 
there  without  having  influence  with  the  leaders  of  the  Bolshevik 

Senator  Nelson.  Did  they  have  control  of  things  in  the  Ukraine? 

Mr.  Simons.  You  had  to  get  special  permission  to  go  down  there. 
There  were  distinguished  people  who  sat  there  for  months  and 
months  waiting  for  permission. 

Senator  Nelson.  Is  not  that  the  heart  of  the  Russian  population 
along  the  vallej^s  of  the  Dneiper  and  the  Don,  and  their  tributaries ; 
is  not  the  heart  of  the  Russian  population  confined  to  those  regions — 
and  the  Volga — take  the  western  rivers,  the  Dneiper,  and  then  Kiev,  ■ 
the  capital  of  Ukrainia,  which  is  situated  on  the  Dneiper? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  think  it  might  be  roughly  stated  so,  yes.  Some  of 
them  claim  that  the  heart  of  the  Russian  nation  is  found  in  the  Rus- 
sian church ;  that  is  where  the  soul  is. 

Senator  Nelson.  The  spiritual  heart.  But  I  mean  the  rural  heart. 
Is  not  that  in  the  Black  Belt? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  should  hate  to  make  a  sweeping  assertion,  because 
in  normal  times  we  have  in  Moscow  1,000,000  people,  and  in  Petro- 
grad  2,000,000,  and  there,  of  course,  you  find  hundreds  of  thou- 
sands of  real  Russians  who  represent,  if  you  please,  in  a  very  real 
way  the  heart  of  Russia,  and  most  of  them  at  some  time  or  another 
came  from  a  village. 

Senator  Nelson.  You  have  never  carried  on  your  operations  in 
southern  Russia? 

Mr.  Simons.  No. 

Senator  Nelson.  In  Kiev  or  Odessa? 

Mr.  Simons.  No.  I  have  been  down  among  the  Molokanes,  or 
milk  drinkers ;  I  have  been  familiar  with  that  section  of  the  country. 
You  could  hardly  call  that  the  heart  of  Russia,  although  they  are. 
patriotic  Russians.  There  are  hundreds  of  thousands  of  Stundists, 
or  Molokanes,  and  tens  of  thousands  of  so-called  German  colonists, 
but  I  would  not  like  to  speak  of  the  heart  of  Russia  as  being  confined 
to  any  particular  territory. 

Senator  Nelson.  But  Little  Russia  was  the  center  of  the  Slav  race 
at  one  time,  was  it  not  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes. 

154  BOLSHEVIK  peopaga:n-da. 

Senator  Xelson.  They  started  from  there,  and  that  is  the  center 
of  it.    The  capital  was  Kiev,  was  it  not? 

Mr.  Snioxs.  That  is  the  old  historic  capital. 

Senator  Nelson.  Have  you  ever  been  at  Nijni  Novgorod  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  have  never  been  there. 

Senator  Nelson.  That  is  not  a  great  ways  from  Moscow,  on  the 
upper  Volga. 

Mr.  Simons.  I  had  to  put  off  many  of  these  things  because  of  extra 
duties  connected  with  our  church  during  the  great  war.  For  almost 
six  years  I  even  have  not  been  in  America,  and  our  bishop  has  not 
been  over  since  the  summer  of  1913,  so,  of  course,  all  those  duties 
devolved  upon  me  and  I  could  not  very  well  travel  around. 

Senator  Nelson.  Then  you  are  not  able  to  say  how  all  of  tliat  big 
southern  part  of  Russia  stands  on  this  Bolshevik  government? 

Mr.  Simons.  Except  from  certain  reports.  I  happened  to  have  some 
of  my  men  down  there  and  they  wrote  up  and  told  me,  and  I  might 
tell  what  came  up  from  that  section ;  but  there  have  been  such  kaleido- 
scopic changes  taking  place  that  what  would  hold  true  of  September 
and  October  would  not  hold  true  of  November  and  December,  and 
might  not  hold  true  now. 

Senator  Nelson.  That  is  true. 

Mr.  Simons.  But  I  think  it  is  safe  to  say  that  the  Bolshevik  area 
does  not  take  in  more  than  one-fourth  of  the  real  Russia.  I  think 
it  is  safe  to  say  that. 

Senator  Nelson.  Does  it  take  in  anything  of  Russian  Poland? 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes;  I  think  it  does;  I  think  it  takes  all  of  that 
section  there.  I  have  not  a  map  here,  so  of  course,  I  can  not  go  into 

Senator  Overman.  Do  you  know  whether  or  not  they  are  going 
on  with  their  propaganda  in  England  and  Germany  and  France  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  have  heard  from  men  who  are  investigating  that, 
with  whom  I  have  had  long  conferences  in  Stockholm  and  Chris- 
tiania,  that  very  active  propaganda  is  being  carried  on  in  England. 

Senator  Nelson.  Did  you  meet  Mr.  Leonard  over  there?  He  was 
connected  with  the  consular  service  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  He  was  in  Russia  as  one  of  the  several  secretaries  of 
the  Y.  M.  C.  A.,  under  Dr.  Mott's  supervision,  and  when  the 
Bolshevik  revolution  came  on,  he  and  another  Y.  M.  C.  A.  man  by 
the  name  of  Berry,  I  think,  both  went  into  the  consular  service. 
They  were  later  arrested,  and  the  reports  we  got  were  to  the  effect 
that  they  were  imprisoned  for  almost  three  months,  and  recently 
they  have  been  released  and  have  returned  to  America. 

Maj.  Humes.  Senator,  for  your  information — you  wei'e  asking 
about  the  propaganda — here  is  a  translation  of  one  of  the  orders 
of  the  Bolshevik  government  on  the  question  of  propaganda.  This 
is  the  official  order  published  December  13,  1917  [reading] : 

Order  for  the  appropriation  of  2,000,000  rubles  for  ttie  requirements  of 
the  revolutionary  internationalist  movement. 

Whereas  the  soviet  authority  stands  on  the  ground  of  the  principles  of 
the  international  solidarity  of  the  proletariat  and  the  brotherhood  of  the 
workers  of  all  countries,  and  whereas  the  struggle  against  the  war  and  im- 
perialism can  lead  to  complete  victory  only  if  conducted  on  an  international 


Tlie  Council  of  Peoples  Commlssai-ies  consider  it  absolutely  necessary  to 
take  every  possible  means  including  expenditure  of  money,  for  the  assistance 
•of  the  left  internationalist  wing  of  the  workingman  movement  of  all  countries 
■whether  these  countries  are  at  war  or  in  alliance  with  Russia  or  are  maintain- 
ing a  neutral  position. 

To  this  end  the  Council  of  the  Peoples  Commissaries  orders  the  appropria- 
tion for  the  requirements  of  the  revolutionary  internationalist  movement  to 
be  put  at  the  disposal  of  the  foreign  representatives  of  the  Coinniissariat  of 
Foreign  Affairs,  ten  million  rubles. 

(Signed)  Xenine. 


Senator  Overman.  It  would  seem  from  that  order  that  they  ^^'ere 
using  propaganda  for  the  entire  world. 

Senator  Nelson.  Did  you  say  you  have  any  other  lists  besides  the 
one  that  you  have  there? 

Mr.  Simons.  No;  not  with  me. 

Senator  Nelson.  Could  you  supply  that  other  list? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  will  look  over  my  papers  and  see  if  I  can  find  it. 

Senator  Nelson.  And  you  can  send  it  in  to  the  chairman,  if  you 
can  find  it. 

Senator  Overman.  Do  you  know  if  any  official  of  the  Government 
of  this  country  is  Bolshevik?  Or  would  you  rather  not  answer  as 
to  that  except  in  executive  session? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  have  no  proof.  I  think  in  executive  session  1  might 
giv&  you  some  information  which  would  be  helpful,  at  least  in  a  way. 
If  you  could  find  out  whether  any  men  are  out  and  out  against  the 
Ted  flag,  and  if  they  are  not,  why  you  can  form  your  own  conclusions. 

Senator  Nelson.  You  mean  out  and  out  for  the  red  flag? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  put  it  in  the  negative  way.  You  can  find  out  if  they 
are  really  against  the  red  flag,  and  if  they  are  not,  I  have  nothing 
more  to  sav*. 

Senator  Overman.  Are  there  any  I.  W.  W.'s  in  Russia? 

Mr.  Simons.  I  understand  that  quite  a  number  of  those  men  who 
came  over  to  Petrograd  soon  after  Trotsky  arrived  had  been  identi- 
fied with  the  I.  W.  W.  here  in  America,  and  it  is  remarkable  that  a 
good  deal  of  the  literature  which  I  have  seen  among  the  Bolsheviki 
in  Russia  is  like  the  I.  W.  W.  literature  that  I  find  here  in  English, 
and  their  tactics  are  pretty  much  the  same.  Take,  for  instance,  the 
I.  W.  W.  song,  To  Fan  the  Flames  of  Discontent,  and  so  on.  Take 
this  red-flag  hymn — possibly  you  are  familiar  with  it — also  The  In- 
ternationale, as  they  call  it;  have  practically  all  of  that  in  Rus- 
sian, too.  And  I  find  that  there  is  quite  a  similarity  between  the 
Bolshevik  movement  and  the  I.  W.  W. 

Senator  Overman.  How  many  verses  are  there  in  that  red-flag 

Mr.  Simons.  The  Red  Flag?    Shall  I  read  it? 

Senator  Overman.  I  wish  you  would. 

Mr.  Simons.  It  is  sung  to  the  tune  of  Maryland,  My  Maryland,  ar- 
raxiged  by  Finstenberg.   The  words  are  by  James  Connell.    [Reading :] 


The  Red  Flag. 

By  James  Co-nxell. 

The  workci-s'  flng  Is  deepest  red. 
It  shrouded  eft  our  martyred  dead; 
And  ere  their  limbs  grew  stiff  and  eold 
Tlieir  life-bhxid  dyed  its  every  fold. 


Then  raise  the  scarlet  standard  high; 
Beneath  its  folds  we  11  live  and  die, 
Thougli  cowards  flinch  and  traitors  sneer, 
We'll  lieep  the  red  flag  flying  here. 

Loolv  'round,  tlie  Frenchman  loves  its  blaze, 
The  sturdy  (Jerman  chants  its  praise ; 
In  il<isr(iw's  vaults  its  hymns  are  sung. 
(_'liir:ig(i  swells  its  surging  song. 

It  waved  above  our  infant  might 
When  all  ahead  seemed  dark  as  night ; 
It  witnessed  many  a  deed  and  vow. 
We  will  not  change  its  color  now. 

It  suits  ti  1-day  the  meek  and  base. 
Wliose  minds  are  ttxed  on  pelf  and  place; 
To  cringe  beneath  tlie  rich  man's  frown. 
And  haul  that  sacred  emblem  down. 

With  heads  uncovered,  swear  we  all, 
To  bear  it  onward  till  we  fall ; 
Come  dungeons  dark,  or  gallows  grim. 
This  song  shall  be  our  parting  hymn  ! 

Maj.  Humes.  Doctor,  have  you  any  information  as  to  any  attempt 
or  attempts  being  made  in  this  country  to  form  so-called  Soviets? 

Senator  Nelson.  You  mean  in  this  country? 

Maj.  Humes.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Simons.  Only  as  I  have  found  articles  in  the  newspapers,  and 
have  gotten  hold  of  some  of  their  literature.  You  -will  find  quite  a  lot 
of  literature  published  under  the  auspices  of  the  Eand  School  of  So- 
cial Science  in  New  York  and  kindred  organizations,  in  English  and 
Eussian.both.  The  Communist  ^Manifesto,  which  is  the  official  pro- 
gram of  the  Bolshe'S'iki.  is  being  sold  in  Russian  and  English  both. 
They  have  a  little  article  here  on  the  Old  Red  Flag,  which  goes  to 
prove  that  the  flag  of  the  early  Christians  was  a  red  flag,  and  what 
not,  and  then  they  have  a  Russian  scene  back  here,  pretty  much  the 
same  kind  of  a  scene  that  they  have  been  sending  over  in  Russia 
among  the  Bolshevikis,  and  this,  I  understand,  is  being  used  for 
propagandist  purposes  among  the  tens  of  thousands  of  Russian  work- 
men in  America.  Then  they  have  some  pamphlets  by  Lenine  and 
Trotzky  in  Russian. 

Senator  Woucott.  They  are  published,  you  say,  by  this  Rand 
School  of  Social  Science,  put  out  by  them? 

^Ir.  Simons.  They  are  sold  there  and  some  are  published  there. 
Others  are  published  by  the  Socialist  Literature  Co.,  15  Spruce  Street, 
New  York,  and  by  a  Russian  newspaper  in  Xe-w  York. 

Maj.  HuJiEs.  That  is  the  paper  that  Trotsky  was  formerly  con- 
nected with  in  this  countrv  ? 


Mr.  Simons.  I  think  so. 

Senator  King.  And  he  is  a  Bolshevist  now  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes ;  and  a  good  deal  of  this  literature  is  gotten  out 
by  Charles  H.  Kerr  &  Co.,  of  Chicago. 

Senator  King.  Have  you  made  any  investigation  to  find  out  who 
is  paying  for  them? 

Senator  Nelson.  We  have  just  had  that.  They  have  appropriated 
2,000,000  rubles  for  this  international  propaganda.  He  just  read 
here,  while  you  were  out  of  the  room,  that  they  had  appropriated 
2,000,000  rubles  for  international  propaganda. 

Senator  Overman.  They  must  have  some  agent  who  is  getting  out 
those  pamphlets  here,  who  represents  that  Government. 

Mr.  Simons.  They  Avere  printing,  at  the  time  of  the  early  period 
of  the  Bolshevik  regime,  pamphlets  on  Bolshevism  and  the  Soviet 
Government  by  Lenine  and  Trotsky,  in  English,  in  Petrogxad.  That 
was  in  the  winter  of  1918.    I  have  seen  copies  of  that. 

Senator  Nelson.  I  had  a  copy  of  it  myself,  sent  to  me  almost  a  year 
ago,  I  think. 

Mr.  Simons.  And  I  understand  from  what  they  told  me — I  do  not 
know  how  true  it  is — that  John  Eeed  and  Albert  Williams  helped 
to  put  these  things  into  proper  English. 

Senator  King.  Is  Albert  Williams  this  man  you  have  already 
spoken  of? 

Mr.  Simons.  Y&s.  I  can  not  vouch  for  that.  I  only  have  heard 

Maj.  Humes.  This  morning  you  testified  with  reference  to  the 
terrorism  as  against  the  so-called  bourgeois.  Does  not  that  terrorism 
apply  to  the  peasant  and  working  classes  as  well  as  to  the  bourgeois? 

Mr.  Simons.  In  some  instance;  yes.  Instances  have  been  brought 
to  our  attention  where  there  were  groups  of  workmen  who  were  anti- 
Bolshevik,  and  who  were  hoping  to  create  a  movement  to  overthrow 
the  Bolshevik  regime.  They  were  promptly  arrested,  and  what  their 
punishment  was  we  do  not  know,  but  there  were  at  least  two  factions 
which  figured  in  this  thing  again  and  again  in  Petrograd,  even  last 
summer,  and  it  was  hoped  by  certain  people  in  Petrograd  that  they 
would  succeed,  and  that  other  groups  of  workmen  would  join  them; 
and  then  came,  as  the  result  of  that,  very  drastic  measures  on  the 
part  of  the  Bolshevik  leaders,  and  cases  were  brought  to  our  atten- 
tion where  often  in  homes  of  peasants  that  could  be  reached,  and 
homes  of  workmen,  they  had  to  pay  dearly. 

Senator  King.  You  mean  in  suffering? 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes. 

Senator  King.  You.  do  not  mean  in  money  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  They  had  to  pay  dearly  in  suffering,  in  being  ar- 
rested, and  so  on. 

Senator  King.  Were  some  of  them  killed? 

Mr.  Simons.  There  have  been  instances  on  record  where  certain 
workpien  and  members  of  their  families  have  been  killed,  but  when 
these  things  were  investigated,  often  we  heard  this  kind  of  excuse 
given,  "  That  man  was  guilty  of  disloyalty  to  his  party,  and  that  is 
why  he  was  treated  the  way  he  was." 

Mai.  Humes.  In  other  words,  they  believed  in  the  execution  of 
so-called  political  offenders? 


Mr.  Simons.  Yes;  they  decidedly  did. 

Senator  Oveemax.  Are  there  any  courts  left,  there,  to  administer 
any  laws  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes ;  they  had  courts.  I  appeared  before  the  court  a 
number  of  times,  when  we  could  not  get  the  workmen  to  shovel  our 
snow  away.  We  had  the  heaviest  fall  of  snow,  some  of  the  old  resi- 
dents of  Petrograd  said,  that  had  ever  been  on  record,  so  the  officials 
in  the  local  commissariat  came  around  and  said  that  if  we  did  not 
have  the  snow  shoveled  away — we  had  a  very  big  property  there, 
and  being  on  the  corner,  of  course,  we  had  twice  as  much  as  any 
other  property  would  have  on  the  block  to  shovel  away — that  if  we 
did  not  have  that  snow  shoveled  away  by  a  certain  time  on  the  fol- 
lowing day,  we  would  be  fined,  let  us  sa)',  500  rubles,  and  before  they 
had  their  proclamation  out  and  what  not,  I  was  cited  to  court. 

The  court  was  made  up  of  a  very  silly  looking  workman  and  an 
insipid  looking  Red  Guard,  and  the  other  man  was  as  shy  as  a  maiden 
of  16  Avho  had  just  been  kissed.  I  was  brought  before  them,  and 
they  hardly  knew  how  to  ask  any  questions,  but  they  at  once  said  to 
me,  "  We  cto  not  want  to  hear  your  testimony.  You  are  a  bourgeois. 
We  want  to  hear  what  your  dvornik  says.  So  our  dvornik  had  to 
tell  the  storji-,  and  the  sum  and  substance  of  the  testimony  was  that 
we  had  not  been  doing  anything  wrong,  but  the  authorities  had  not 
been  taking  care  of  a  certain  gas  light  which,  according  to  the  Rus- 
sian system,  had  to  be  pumped  out  every  day  or  water  accumulated, 
and  they  had  not  taken  the  proper  care  of  it,  so  there  got  to  be  quite 
a  lot  of  ice  around  there,  and  they  were  going  to  hold  me  guilty  for 
that,  but  the  testimony  we  brought  in  showed  they  had  not  been 
doing  their  work  properly,  and  then  they  felt  shamefaced;  but  they 
ordered  him  into  another  room  to  see  whether  he  would  not  give  some 
testimony  against  that  capitalist,  but  he  stood  his  ground  firmly,  and 
came  out  and  afterwards  told  me  how  they  had  subjected  him  to  all 
kinds  of  questions,  trying  to  get  him  to  say  something  which  would 
be  unfair  to  me.  He  had  received  only  kindness  at  my  hands,  and 
so,  being  a  pretty  fair  sort  of  individual,  he  spoke  the  truth  and 
nothing  but  the  truth.  Then,  when  he  came  out  they  again  sat  in 
session  and  told  me  that  they  would  give  me  another  chance  to  clean 
that  snow  away. 

Senator  Nelson.  That  was  a  soviet  court. 

Mr.  Simons.  A  soviet  court.  I  have  been  in  other  courts  under 
the  old  regime,  and  they  were  very  fine,  scholarly  men. 

Senator  King.  You  stick  to  the  facts.  Doctor. 

]Maj.  HuiNiES.  Is  it  not  the  practice  of  these  courts  not  to  receive 
the  testimony  of  the  so-called  bourgeois? 

]Mr.  Simons.  They  are  very  much  discriminated  against.  I  have 
lieard  that  from  a  good  many  sources. 

Maj.  Humes.  Even  in  court  their  testimony  is  not  received  as  the 
testimony  of  others? 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes ;  that  is  quite  true.  I  have  talked  with  a  number 
:)f  men  of  our  own  American  colony  who  have  been  brought  to  court,  ■ 
and  one  happened  to  have  a  diamond  ring,  and  that  led  to  his 
jeing  fined,  as  I  remember.  10.000  rubles.  If  he  had  not  had  that 
ring,  he  says  the  chances  are  tliey  would  not  have  fined  him.  Pardon 
ne.  Senator,  I  do  not  like  to  go  into  all  these  details,  but  von  are  put- 


ting  questions  to  lue  that  bring  up  all  kinds  of  things,  and  perhaps 
the  things  I  cite  may  add  a  little  light. 

Senator  Overman.  We  are  very  glad  to  have  you  tell  it  in  your  <)\vu 
way,  and  you  have  thrown  a  great  deal  of  light  on  the  subject,  Doc- 
tor, and  we  are  very  much  obliged  to  you. 

Mr.  Simons.  I  have  not  been  able  to  get  away  from  one  thing,  that 
there  is  being  fanned  constantly  an  antibourgeois  feeling.  You  feel 
it  as  you  go  along  the  street.  The  saddest  thing  I  have  to  relate  is 
this.  My  sister  was  a  rheumatic  for  almost  four  years.  Soon  after 
the  Bolsheviki  came  into  power  she  was  trying  to  get  from  our  place 
down  to  the  next  line,  where  there  was  a  car  line  that  would  bring 
her  to  a  certain  part  of  the  city,  and  the  snow  was  about  that  deep 
[indicating]  and  she  slipped  and  fell,  and  there  were  Russian  girls 
from  the,  factory  Avho  came  by  and  looked  at  her  and  used  abusive 
language,  and  called  her  a  bourgeois,  and  what  not,  and  said,  "  Let  her 
lie  there,"  and  what  not,  and  my  sister  burst  out  into  tears.  She 
struggled  again  and  again  to  get  onto  her  feet.  She  said,  as  she  came 
home,  that  she  had  ahvays  felt  that  the  Russian  women  were  \ery 
sympathetic,  but  they  \fere  now  so  cruel,  simply  because  she  was 
dressed  like  a  lady,  and  she  struggled  there  for  at  least  10  minutes 
before  she  got  out  of  that  position.  She  came  back  and  said  it  just 
distressed  her  so  that  they  let  her  suffer.  That  is  their  temper,  and 
in  their  press  and  in  their  proclamation  it  is  the  same  old  diabolical 
thing,  class  war,  not  only  for  Russia,  but  for  the  whole  world,  and  be 
just  as  mean  as  you  can  to  your  fellow  man,  especially  if  he  is  dressed 
like  a  gentleman  or  lady.  Now.  if  anybody  has  different  testimony 
on  those  people,  I  submit  they  have  not  seen  them  in  actual  operation. 

Senator  King.  Would  you  say  that  that  feeling  permeated  the 
peasants  generally  to  any  extent? 

Mr.  Simons.  The  average  peasant  is  one  of  the  most  lovable  men 
you  can  meet  anywhere  in  the  M'orld.  I  want  to  tell  you  that  I  have 
not  found  a  better  type  of  man  or  woman  than  in  the  Russian  vil- 
lages, and  even  among  the  workmen,  of  whom  I  knew  thousands, 
and  I  always  felt  pretty  safe  with  them  until  these  Bolsheviki  came 
in  power. 

Senator  King.  Have  they  been  able  to  eradicate  that  feeling  of,  I 
might  call  it  unsophistication,  and  in  a  religious  way  mysticism,  that 
predominates  so  much  in  the  peasant's  mind  or  life  ? 

Mr.  Simons.  Well,  they  appealed,  if  you  please,  to  the  lower  pas- 
sions and  instincts,  and  they  made  promises  to  those  people  such  as 
these.  They  would  say,  "  Now,  all  the  land  is  to  be  yours."  For  in- 
stance, there  was  timber  on  the  estates  of  some  of  the  titled  people 
that  we  knew  in  the  villages  or  near  the  villages  outside  of  Petrograd. 
and  they  would  say, "  You  can  help  yourself.  You  do  not  have  to  pay 
for  it.  You  can  have  anything  and  everything  you  want.  It  is  all 
vours  now  •  it  belongs  to  the  people."  That  appealed  to  many  of  these 
ipeople;  but  then  afterwards  they  came  out  with  this  kind  of  testi- 
mony as  did  hundreds  of  workmen  who  were  left  in  charge  of  the 
factones  without  raw  material  or  any  money,  and  with  the  machinery 
broken  "  We  oAvn  everything,  but  we  can  not  use  it.  We  are  worse 
off  now  than  we  were  under  the  old  system." 

Senator  King.  To  what  extent  did  the  peasants  commit  atrocities 
upon  the  landowners  in  their  immediate  vicinities,  and  deprive  owners 
of  their  homes  and  property  ? 


]Mr.  SnroNs.  There  have  been  ever  m3  many  ca-es  rei^orted.  and 
s(jme  of  them  by  people  of  my  own  acquaintance,  who  have  had  large 
estates,  and  after  they  had  told  me  all  the-e  things,  of  the  depreda- 
tions committed  by  these  infuriated  peasants  who  had  been  indoc- 
trinated by  Bolshevism,  they  ^aid.  ''  "We  know  those  peasants  are 
going  to  become  sober  minded  against  Socialism,  because  two  or 
three  have  come  back  and  said,  '  We  repent  of  all  ive  ha-\  e  done. 
AVhat  can  we  do  to  show  you  that  we  still  love  you '.' " 

Senator  King.  To  what  extent  have  the  prelates  and  ecclesiastics 
influenced  or  lost  influence  over  the  peasants? 

Mr.  Suroxs.  I  am  sorry  to  say  that  the  average  Russian  pi-iest 
never  had  the  respect  or  even  the  affection  of  the  i^eople  at  large. 
There  was  a  sort  of  feeling  against  them.  I  hope  I  am  not  saving 
anj'thing  that  will  be  usecl  by  people  who  are  against  the  Eussian 
church.  I  am  very  friendly  toward  that  institution.  Her  dignita- 
ries have  sent  greetings  to  us  and  our  bishops,  and  we  have  sustained 
ideal  fraternal  relations  with  that  church.  As  you  know,  there  is  a 
movement  on  foot  to  bring  about  some  kind  of  a  union  between  the 
Russian  orthodox  church  and  the  Methodist  Episcopal  Church  in 
the  United  States,  and  Avhile  I  preface  my  remarks  with  all  that, 
\et  the  fact  is  this,  that  the  priests  of  the  Russian  Orthodox  churcli 
on  the  whole  have  not  been  respected,  and  in  many  cases  ha^"e  been 
maligned  and  abused,  and  especially  since  the  BolsheA'iki  have  come 
into  power.  They  have  found  that  they  could  take  this  prejudice 
on  the  part  of  the  Russian  people  and  use  it  as  a  weapon  against  the 
Russian  orthodox  church,  which  was  suspected  of  being  monarchistic, 
and  that  has  come  out  again  and  again  in  the  Bolshevik  attacks  on 
the  church.     They  look  upon  the  church  as  a  reactionary  institution. 

Senator  King.  That  is,  the  Bolsheviks? 

Mr.  Simons.  The  Bolsheviks ;  yes. 

Senator  King.  Has  there  been  a  confiscation  of  church  property 
and  buildings? 

Mr.  SiJioNs.  Yes,  sir:  and  in  quite  a  number  of  instances  monas- 
teries, with  their  wealth,  have  been  taken,  and  all  kinds  of  indecent 
things  have  been  done  by  certain  Bolshevik  officials. 

I  have  some  data  showing  that  they  have  turned  certain  churches 
and  monasteries  into  dancing  halls,  and  one  instance  has  been  re- 
ported to  me  where  a  certain  Bolshevik  official  went  into  a  churcl) 
while  the  people  were  there  waiting  for  the  sacrament,  and  thre^v 
the  priest  out,  so  I  am  told,  and  himself  put  on  the  clerical  garb, 
and  then  Avent  on  the  altar  and  made  a  comedy  of  the  ritual,  which 
stirred  up  the  religions  sense  of  the  jDeople  to  that  extent  that  they 
threatened — of  course,  among  themselves — that  they  would  yet  kill 
that  man.  He  happened  to  be  an  apostate  Jew.  Other  horrible 
things  have  been  done.  I  do  not  charge  all  those  things  to  the 
Bolshevik  government,  but  they  were  happening  under  their  auspices, 
as  it  seems.  I  have  seen  priests  march  down  the  street  in  front  of 
our  house  with  a  little  bag  hanging  over  their  shoulders,  for  no  other 
reason  than  that  they  were  suspected  of  being  anti-Bolshevik  and  reac- 
tionary. There  are  records  over  there  showing  that  certain  innocent 
priests  were  killed  without  a  trial,  and  some  of  them  killed  in  Kron- 
stadt.    All  those  facts  can  be  gotten  through  the  Xorwegian  Legation. 

Senator  King.  What  became  of  those  that  you  saw  nnirch  liy  your 
place?     Were  they  imprisoned? 


Mr.  Snioxs.  What  is  that? 

Senator  King.  I  understood  you  to  sav  vou  had  seen  priests  march 
by  your  place? 

Mr.  Simons.  Yes;  I  have  seen  them  again  and  ao;ain  marched  down 
tlie  prospect,  and  put  on  a  barge  of  some  kind  and  taken  do^yn  to 
Kronstadt  and  kept  there.  One  gentleman  of  the  Norwegian  Le- 
gation, told  me  several  times  that'he  had  proof  .showing  that  some 
of  these  men  had  been  killed,  as  well  as  quite  a  number  of  ,oflicers. 
He  himself  one  Sunday  afternoon  was  a  witness.  This  was  aftei'  an 
awful  storm,  one  of  the  wor^-t  storms  we  ever  had  over  there.  It 
was  Sunday  afternoon.  On  the  sliore  of  the  gulf,  just  opposite 
Kronstadt,  bodies  had  been  washed  ashore.  Thei'e  wei'e,  as  I  recall 
his  statement,  either  two  or  three  Rirssian  officers  tied  together. 
He  was  of  the  opinion  that  it  was  at  that  time  when  they  threw  many 
of  them — that  is,  as  the  report  came  out,  hundreds  of  them — over- 
board. I  do  not  know  whether  it  was  true  or  not.  hut  I  thought  it 
was.  These  men  had  been  washed  ashore.  They  were  Russian 
officers,  two  or  three  of  them  tied  together. 

Senator  Kixo.  In  the  ])i'ess  that  Avas  recognized  by  them — the 
Bolshevist  official  press — were  thei'e  accounts  of  homicides  based  upon 
the  ground  that  the  killing  was  justified  because  those  who  were 
killed  were  anti-Bolsheviki? 

Mr.  Simons.  Senator,  their  press  was  largely  made  up  of  deceits, 
and  threats  of  what  they  were  going  to  do  not  only  to  the  Bourgeois 
class,  but  also  to  the  capitalists  all  over  the  world,  and  we  did  not  get 
hardly  any  news  at  all.  Now  and  then  there  would  be  telegi'ams 
which  were  supposed  to  have  come  from  America,  stating  that  all 
England  was  on  strike,  and  all  America,  and  that  there  was  not  a 
single  railroad  in  the  United  States  that  was  running,  and  things 
of  that  kind,  and  everything  was  looking  very  bright  for  Bolshevism 
abroad.  That  was  the  tenor  of  their  press.  Things  that  were  actually 
taking  place  would  rarely  be  reported,  as  you  and  I  would  expect. 

Senator  King.  In  your  contact  with  the  Bolshevik  leaders  there 
did  they  conceal  their  purpose  to  force  to  destroy  the  classes  there 
that  were  above  the  proletariet;  that  is,  the  bourgeois? 

Mr.  Simons.  Did  they  conceal  it? 

Senator  King.  Did  they  conceal  their  purpose  to  destroy,  by  force 
and  by  starvation  or  otherwise,  the  bourgeois? 

Mr.  Simons.  They  never  concealed  it;  no.  Thev  came  right  out 
with  it  boldly;  and  if  you  will  take  the  Communist  Manifesto  you 
Avill  find  that  in  about  the  last  paragraph  is  where  they  have  their 
inspiration.  I  do  npt  know  whether  you  recall  that.  The  last  word 
is  their  motto,  which  appears  on  all  their  papers  in  the  left-hand 
corner  of  the  first  page,  "  Proletarians  of  all  countries  and  nations 
imite."  And  "finally  they  labor  everywhere" — that  is,  the  prole- 
tarians or  communists:  the  Bolsheviks  call  themselves  communists 

also "  finallv  they  labor  eveiywhere  for  union  and  agreement  of  the 

democratic  parties  of  all  countries.  The  connnunists  disdain  to  con- 
ceal their  aims.  They  openly  declare  that  their  ends  can  be  attained 
onlv  bv  the  forcible  overthrow  of  all  existing  social  condition'^."' 
By  the  forcible  overthroAv  of  all  existing  social  conditions !  "  Let  the 
rulino-  classes  tremble  at  a  communistic  revolution.  The  proletarians 
have  nothing  to  lose,  but  they  have  a  world  to  win.    Proletarians  of 

85723—19 11 


all  nations  unite  I  "  Here  they  iise  the  -woids  -  working  men,"'  but 
it  is  "  proletarians  "  in  the  original. 

Senator  Kikg.  Have  you  discovered  a  number  of  Russians  over 
here  in  this  coinitry  who  were  engaged  in  Bolshevik  propaganda^ 

Mr.  Si:\ioxs.  I  know  of  them. 

Senator  King.  On  the  East  Side,  are  most  of  the  Russians  there 
J  ews  X 

Mr.  Simons.  I  understand  that  most  of  the  so-called  Russians  on 
the  East  Side  are  divided  into  two  camps,  the  Russian  Jew  camp 
and  the  so-called  real  Russian  camp,  which  takes  in  people  who  are 
Slovak,  who  still  adhere  to  the  Russian  orthodox  religion. 

Senator  Overman.  Doctor,  you  spolce  of  meeting  these  apostate 
Jews  in  Petrograd.  In  talking  to  them,  did  thej^  tell  you  what 
they  were  doing  in  Russia  and  what  their  purpose  was  in  going 
there?     You  say  thejr  came  and  spoke  to  you  because  they  Imew 

Mr.  Simons.  The  burden  of  their  conversation  with  me  was  sim- 
ply this,  that  I  should  use  whatever  influence  I  had  with  the  Amer- 
ican Red  Cross  to  have  it  stand  by  the  soviet.  That  was  the  burden 
of  their  talk,  but  I  never  felt  that  I  had  any  mission  to  jDerform 
in  that  capacit3^ 

Senator  King.  Did  any  of  them  announce  the  object  tliey  had  in 
Russia,  what  part  they  were  playing  in  the  revolution? 

Mr.  Simons.  Xo,  sir;  not  to  me. 

Senator  Overman.  "Was  there  any  considerable  number  of  them? 

Mr.  Simons.  Who  came  to  see  me? 

Senator  Overman.  That  you  saw  there? 

Mr.  Simons.  Or  whom  I  met?  I  imagine  that  we  encountered 
at  least  a  couple  of  dozen  of  them.  Some  of  them  were  speaking 
English.  I  will  tell  you  this,  that  one  of  them  afterwards  came 
to  me  and  had  supper  in  our  home,  and  he  told  me  among  other 
things,  "  You  know  we  have  had  the  best  training  in  the  world, 
and  that  enables  us  to  out-Jesuit  the  Jesuits."  I  am  not  speaking 
against  the  Jews,  but  I  am  only  telling  you  how  some  of  these 
fellows  felt,  that  they  had  the  most  superior  training ;  and  this  man 
■went  so  far  as  to  say,  "  There  is  no  more  superior  training  that  any- 
body can  get  in  the  world  than  we  have  been  getting." 

(At  4.20  o'clock  p.  m.,  the  subcommittee  went  into  executive  session. 
At  .5.45  o'clock  p.  m.,  at  the  close  of  the  executive  session,  the  subcom- 
mittee adjourned,  to  meet  to-morrow,  February  1?..  1919,  at  10.30 
o'clock  a.  m.) 



United  States  Senate, 
Subcoii:mittee  of  the  Committee  on  the  Judiciaey, 

Washington,  D.  C. 
The  subcommittee  met,  pursuant  to  adjournment,  at  10.30  o'clock 
a.  m.,  in  room  228,  Senate  Office  Building,  Senator  Lee  S.  Overman 

Present:  Senators  Overman  (chairman),  King,  Wolcott,  and 

Senator  OvEE^rAN.  The  committee  will  come  to  order.  I  have  re- 
ceived the  following  telegram,  which  I  think  I  will  put  in  the  record. 
[Eeading :] 

Xf.w  York,  Fehruanj  12.  I'M'.l 
Senator  0^'ER^tAIf, 

U)iitecl  t<t(ites  Senate,  Washinriton.  D.  C: 
I  empliatically  protest  against  the  suggestion  in  the  testimony  before  the 
propaganda  investigating  committee  that  Jews  form  the  life  of  Bolshevism  in 
Russia.  The  list  of  names  submitted  to  your  committee  contains  at  least  a 
half  dozen  people  who  are  violently  opposed  to  Bolshevism  and  are  fighting  it 
tooth  and  nail.  The  "  Bund."  the  biggest  Jewish  socialist  party  in  Russia,  is  lead- 
ing the  fight  on  Lenine  and  Trotsky.  It  is  un.iust  to  indict  a  v.'hole  people  by 
insidious  suggestion.  By  doing  so  the  testimony  submitted  before  your  com- 
mittee is  playing  into  the  hands  of  the  Black  Hundreds  who  are  only  waiting 
for  the  downfall  of  Bolshevism  to  massacre  Jews  in  Russia.  I  know  whereof 
I  speak  for  I  have  recently  returned  from  Russia,  where  I  represented  the 
United  Press  Associations.  Bolshevism  is  tyrrany  and  despotism  and  the 
greatest  insanity  the  modern  world  has  known,  but  in  the  name  of  justice  do 
not  blame  the  Jewish  people  for  it.  Blame  the  centuries  of  Czarism  which 
kept  the  Russian  people  in  ignorance  and  made  Bolshevism  inevitable. 

Joseph  Shaplen, 
415  Ninth  Street,  Brooldyn,  N.  T. 

I  want  to  say,  in  justice  to  Dr.  Simons's  testimony  here,  that  he 
made  no  insidious  charges  against  the  Jews,  but  only  against  the 
apostate  Jews.  He  tried  to  emphasize  that  several  times.  So  that  his 
remarks  were  favorable  to  the  real  Jews  rather  than  against  them. 
Now,  Maj.  Humes,  proceed. 


(The  witness  was  sworn  by  the  chairman.) 

Maj,  Humes.  Where  do  you  reside,  Doctor? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Evanston,  111. 

Maj.  Htjmes.  What  is  your  business? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Teacher  in  Xorthwestern  University. 

Mai    Hu'^xEs.  Have  you  recently  been  in  Eussia  '. 

•'■  Hi.-! 


Mr.  Dexxis.  I  left  Eussia  September  -2,  l;i>t  year. 

^laj.  Humes.  How  long  had  you  been  there? 

Jlr.  Dex'xis.  Since  Xovember  1. 

Maj.  Hx-MES.  1917? 

Sh:  Dexxis.  Yes. 

^laj.  Humes.  In  what  capacity  did  you  go  to  Eussia  ? 

ilr.  Denxis.  I  went  to  Eussia  for  the  American  Y.  M.  C.  A. 

ilaj.  Hi  3IES.  How  long  did  you  continue  in  the  service  of  the 
Y.  ^I.  C.  A.,  and  what  did  you  then  take  up? 

]\rr.  Dexxis.  I  changed  from  the  Y.  il.  C.  A.  to  the  Consular  Serv- 
ice on  April  1,  as  I  remember  the  date. 

^laj.  Humes.  AYheri'  did  you  fii-st  go  in  Eussia? 

]Mr.  Dexxis.  I  entered  at  ^"ladivostok  and  went  across  to  Moscow- 
went  south  to  the  Caucasus — to  Eostov-on-the-Don  and  Xovo  Tcher- 
kask.  Then  Ave  came  back  to  the  Ukiaine.  to  Kharkov,  and  from 
there  to  Moscow  and  Pctrograd. 

Senator  Xelsox.  Were  you  at  Kiev? 

Mr.  Dexxis.  The  Germans  were  there. 

Senator  Overmax.  Do  you  speak  the  Eussian  language? 

]Mr.  Dexxis.  I  can  splash  about  in  it  now.  I  can  understand  it 
i-easonabjy  well,  or  could  when  I  left  there. 

I  lived  for  about  tvro  and  a  half  months  at  Eostov,  a  month  in 
the  city  of  Petrograd,  three  months  in  Xijni  Novgorod. 

Maj.  Hx':\rEs.  If  you  arrived  there  in  November,  1917.  Avas  that 
before  the  Noveml)er  revolution? 

^Ir.  Dex^xts.  That  took  place  while  we  were  on  the  trans-Siberian. 
_\Vc  arrived  in  Moscow  immediatelj^  following  that. 

ilaj.  Hu:wES.  Will  j^ou  go  on  in  your  own  way  and  tell  us  the 
conditions  as  you  found  them,  and  about  the  conditions  as  they  de- 
veloped from  time  to  time,  the  character  of  the  government,  the  way 
the  government  was  maintaining  itself  and  perpetuating  itself  at 
the  different  points  where  you  Avere  residing? 

Mr.  Dexxis.  You  give  me  a  Avide-open  question  like  that  and  I 
am  liable  to  talk  vou  to  death,  because  I  can  make  a  long  answer  to 

^laj.  Humes.  That  is  Avhat  Ave  Avant.  We  want  a  detailed  ansAver 
of  just  the  situation  as  you  found  it. 

Ml-.  Dexxis.  I  had  a  good  chance  to  see  hoAv  it  Avorked  in  the  city 
of  Eostov,  because  in  that  district  Kaladines  and  Korniloff  made 
their  attempt. 

Senator  Nelsox.  That  is  in  the  T'kraine,  is  it  ? 

i\[r.  Dexxis.  That  is  in  the  Don  Cossack  basin,  a  little  farther 

Senator  Nelsox.  Is  it  on  the  Don? 

Mr.  Dexxis.  On  the  Don:  30  miles  from  the  mouth  of  the  Don 
Eiver  Avhere  it  floAvs  into  the  Sea  of  Azov.  I  Avas  there  when  Kala- 
dines connnitted  suicide,  and  I  Avas  there  AA-hen  Korniloff  made  his 
final  defense  of  that  city  and  it  Avas  taken  by  the  Eed  Guard. 

Senator  Neesox.  You  call  the  Bolshevist  government  troops  the 
Eed  Guard  ? 

^fr.  Dexxis.  Yes:  the  reds  are  Bolshevik  and  the  Avhites  are  to 
the  contrary.  I  think  the  oxpei-ience  there  Ava-  not  much  different 
fro..i  elscAvhere.    Thev  trok  the  toAvn.  after  a  AA'liile.     Korniloff  knew 


that  he  waw  going  to  be  defeated,  and  made  a  rear  guard  defense  of 
the  citj',  and  the  Red  army,  officered  by  Germans,  took  the  city. 

Senator  Nelson.  How  big  a  phice  is  llost 



Mr.  De>->,^i.s.  Tliree  hundred  tlionsiind. 

Senator  Xelsox.  Go  on. 

Mr.  Dexn:s.  For  four  <Uiys  tlioy  cleaned  tlie  thinii'  u])  scientifically. 

Senator  XELSt)x.  How? 

Mr.  Den:nis.  With  armored  cars  and  machine  guns  and  soldiess. 
At  -i  o'clock  every  afternoon  the  thing  was  tuned  up  and  it  was  l)e>t 
to  be  inside,  because  armored  cars  with  "  Death  to  the  rich  " — that  is, 
death  to  the  ''  boorzhooie  " — would  go  around  town  and  stop  at  a 
street  corner  and  send  a  spurt  of  machine-gun  fire  up  and  down  the 
side  street  and  then  go  on  to  the  next  corner  and  do  the  same  thing. 
The_y  had  a  few  mortars  and  cannon,  and  with  them  a  few  buildings 
Avere  destroyed.  In  the  home  of  one  wealthy  man  whom  I  had  known 
very  casually  they  dropped  a  shell  right  in  the  middle  of  his  dining- 
room  table. 

Senator  Nelson.  When  they  were  firing  in  the  streets  in  that  way, 
at  the  crossroads,  were  there  people  on  the  streets  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes;  I  saw  a  number  of  them  killed. 

Senator  Nelson.  So  that  they  did  not  take  any  pains  to  avoid 
killing  people '( 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  saw  a  nmnber  of  )nen  killed  by  the  machine  guns. 
On  the  fourth  day  the_y  started  something  which  I  think  was  rather 
typical.  They  said  that  there  were  people  in  the  buildings  firing  at 
these  red  soldiers  out  of  the  windows,  and  then  it  tui'iied  loose,  and 
everywhere  it  was  "  pop,  pop,  pop."  I  was  on  the  fourth  floor  of  a 
building,  where  the  angle  was  rather  high,  and  they  could  only 
shoot  through  the  upper  sash,  but  you  could  see  those  soldiers  down 
in  the  street  taking  a  pot  shot  at  anyone  in  the  windows  of  the  build- 
ings. I  saw  two  soldiers  cash  in  because  while  they  were  in  the 
street,  shooting,  along  came  one  of  these  machine  guns  and  stopped 
at  the  corner  of  the  street  and  turned  loose. 

Senator  Nelson.  And  killed  them,  too'^ 

Mr.  Dennis.  Two  of  the  soldiers  of  the  Eed  Guard  got  it,  them- 
selves. Everj^  day  and  every  moment,  you  never  knew ;  it  would  be 
"  bang,  bang  "  on  the  door,  and  in  would  come  four  or  five  soldiers 
who  would  search  the  place,  looking  primariljr  for  guns,  revolvers, 
etc.  We  had  five  Englishmen  and  Americans  and  four  Englishwomen 
there,  and  we  had  a  sign  on  the  outside  of  the  door,  '"  Under  the  pro- 
tection of  the  British  Government " ;  but  much  good  it  did  !  They 
searched  us  four  times  that  night  up  to  12  o'clock.  They  accused 
us  of  shooting  out  of  the  windows.  Two  boys  came  in,  about  IG 
years  old,  and  they  placed  revolvers  under  our  noses  and  asked  for 
immediate  results. 

Senator  Nelson.  Have  you  any  idea  how  many  people  they  killed 
there  at  that  time? 

Mr.  Dennis.  No,  sir;  I  have  not.  I  do  not  think  anybody  knew. 
There  had  been  a  number  of  young  boys — what  we  would  call  high- 
school  boys — there,  who  had  joined  this  volunteer  army,  and  some  of 
them  foolishly,  instead  of  getting  out  of  town,  went  home,  thinking 
they  could  hide  out,  and  a  number  of  them  were  caught  and  killed. 

Senator  Nelson.  Which  volunteer  army  ? 


^ilr.  Dennis.  Koriiiloff's. 

Senator  Nelson.  He  was  one  of  the  old  Russian  generals? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes,  sir.  You  heard  his  name  first  in  connection  with 
Kerensky,  in  that  affair  at  Petrograd. 

Maj.  HrjiES.  When  you  saj^  this  Red  Guard  was  commanded  by 
German  officers,  do  you  mean  by  that  only  the  higher  ranking 
officers,  or  were  the  officers  generally  German? 

Mr.  Dennis.  German  officers  did  not  appear  before  the  public. 
All  the  men  who  appeared  before  the  public  in  Rostov  were  Rus- 
sians of  one  kind  or  another.  One  or  two  were  Letts.  The  head 
man  was  a  Lett.  The  Letts  have  been  in  the  Russian  armies  in 
numbers.  But  in  the  hotel  in  which  I  lived  there  were  13  German 
officers.  The  son  of  the  proprietor,  whom  I  had  gotten  to  know 
very  well  because  he  had  lived  in  America  for  a  number  of  years, 
told  me  that  there  were  six  of  those  men  who  could  not  talk 
Russian.  I  used  to  hear  their  stein  songs,  and  there  was  around 
there  a  very  pleasant  German  atmosphere.  The  soldiers  knew  they 
were  German  officers.  The  beggars  in  the  street  spoke  German. 
They  spoke  to  me  in  German.  I  had  on  a  semimilitary  uniform,  and 
they  took  me  for  a  German,  and  spoke  to  me  in  German — the  first 
and  only  time  it  happened  to  me. 

Senator  Wolcott.  You  say  they  would  instigate  stories  that  the 
civilians  had  fired  from  the  windows  on  them? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes. 

Senator  0\'eeman.  That  was  a  purely  fictitious  story? 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  do  not  know,  but  I  had  the  feeling" that  that  was 
told  to  turn  loose  this  terrorism,  because  the  Red  soldiers  believed 
it.    Many  of  them  went  mad. 

Senator  Nelson.  What  were  these  soldiers  composed  of,  Letts  and 
Russians  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes ;  all  kinds. 

Senator  Nelson.  All  kinds  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes. 

Senator  Overman.  It  was  a  conglomeration  of  every  discontented 
sort  of  man  in  Russia? 

Mr.  Dennis.  It  was  very  interesting  in  Rostov.  I  have  a  feeling 
that  in  Russia  this  propaganda  to  take  the  industries  and  the  land 
met  with  the  approval  of  the  poor  people  who  were  in  bad  shape 
due  to  the  economic  conditions  of  Russia.  That  was  at  the  begin- 
ning. But  within  two  weeks  public  sentiment  in  Rostov  had  quite 
changed.  With  the  coming  of  the  Red  Guard  the  wealthy  people 
left  their  homes  in  large  numbers,  put  on  their  oldest  clothes  and 
sought  refuge  with  people  of  less  importance  and  with  less  pretentious 
homes.  I  knew  a  number  who  did  that,  and  very  wisely,  I  think. 
Within  two  weeks  the  feelings  of  the  proletariat  had  changed,  be- 
cause they  had  been  promised  cheap  bread,  but  the  price  of  bread 
went  up,  and  discontent  and  talk  began  to  grow.  That  discontent 
has  grown  constantly  all  over  Russia  since  that. 

Senator  Nelson.  You  were  in  Rostov  in  November,  1917  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  stayed  there  until  February. 

Senator  Nelson.  Did  conditions  change  while  you  were  there? 

Mr.  Dennis.  No.  After  I  left  there.  I  have  only  the  letters  which 
I  received  from  people  living  in  the  city,  describing  the  situation, 

BOLSHEVIK   PROPAGAISTDA.  V^  .         167 

and  that  is  my  only  evidence  as  to  what  has  happened  in  Eostov  since 
I  left  there.  These  letters  state  that  some  600  sailors  took  the  town 
and  looted  it  for  a  week,  held  it  for  a  week,  and  finally  the  Bol- 
sheviks overthrew  them,  and  then  the  Germans  took  control  of  the 
town.  I  left  there  a  month  or  two  before  the  Germans  took  control 
of  the  town. 

Senator  Nelson.  Are  they  in  control  now  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  When  I  left  Eussia  they  were  in  control.  What  they 
have  done  since  the  armistice  I  do  not  know. 

While  this  could  hot  happen  every  day,  it  was  rather  typical  of 
conditions  in  Eussia.  I  left  Eostov  with  two  other  Americans  on 
the  private  car  of  a  man  who  was  an  adjutant  of  some  kind  for 
Antonoff,  who  was  one  of  the  big  men  in  the  Government. 

Senator  Overman.  You  mean  one  of  the  big  men  in  the  Bolshevik 
government  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes.  This  young  fellow — it  was  like  being  with 
Capt.  Kidd,  except  that  you  worked  on  land  instead  of  sea — this 
fellow  had  an  engine  and  a  private  car  at  his  disposal,  which  took 
him  wherever  he  wanted  to  go.  He  was  going  back  from  Eostov  to 
Kharkov.  We  were  glad  to  go  with  him.  Trains  were  not  running, 
and  the  conditions  were  terrible.  For  three  days  we  went  down 
every  day  and  sat  on  the  platform  of  his  car  waiting  for  him  to' 
come  down,  because  he  said  that  he  was  going,  and  then  we  went 
back  home  every  evening.  On  the  last  day  we  went  to  the  sta- 
tion and  were  waiting  for  him.  The  station  at  Eostov,  like  all 
stations  in  Eussia,  was  jammed  with  hundreds  and  thousands  of 
people.  That  station  platform  must  be  at  least  1,500  feet  long. 
When  this  fellow  came  down  to  his  car  he  made  his  driver  drive  down 
the  entire  length  of  that  platform,  right  through  the  crowd,  a  thing 
that  would  not  have  happened  even  in  the  days  of  the  old  regime 
except  with  some  drunken  individual.  Then  he  got  out  and  went 
and  got  on  his  car.  He  was  showing  off  his  authority.  He  wore  two 
guns,  a  sword,  and  a  dirk,  and  was  dressed  in  an  aviator's  leather 
uniform.  That  seemed  to  be  very  popular  with  those  fellows.  It 
made  them  more  smart  than  anything  else  they  could  wear. 

This"  chap  had  with  him  a  woman  and  two  children,  and  they  had 
in  that  car  all  kinds  of  loot.  They  had  gone  through  the  stores  of 
Eostov  and  taken  what  they  wanted — requisitioned  it.  He  showed 
it  to  us  with  considerable  pride,  and  the  270,000  rubles  that  he  had. 

Instead  of  getting  to  Kharkov  in  15  hours,  we  were  five  days  with 
this  gentleman  on  his  car.  Finally  we  went  through  a  little  town  in 
the  Ukraine  where  he  lived,  and  he  took  the  loot  off  this  car  and  took 
it  home  and  cached  it  in  his  cellar.  He  stayed  a  day  there,  and  they 
had  a  great  celebration.    We  did  not  celebrate  much. 

At  the  end  of  five  days  we  arrived  in  Kharkov.  On  the  second  day 
after  we  arrived  there  I  saw  this  same  chap  with  his  woman  and 
three  cabs  loaded  to  the  guards  with  stuff  that  he  had  taken  out  of 
the  stores  of  Kharkov.  He  waved  his  hand  to  us  gaily,  and  went 
down  to  his  car.    We  bade  him  farewell,  and  we  were  through. 

Senator  Overman.  What  was  he  in  the  government? 

Mr.  Dennis.  He  was  some  sort  of  an  adjutant  for  Antonoff,  ac- 
cording to  his  story. 

Senator  Nelson.  What  was  Antonoff's  position? 


Mr.  Denxis.  He  is  one  of  the  big  men.  I  can  not  remember  his 
portfolio.    Perhaps  one  of  tliese  other  gentlemen  here  can  tell  you. 

A  Bystaxdeb.  .He  \Yas  military  commander.  Antonoff  conmianded 
the  army  which  fought  in  Rosto^•.  Ho  is  a  ci\'ilian,  but  he  was  in 
command  of  the  army. 

Senator  Xelson.  Did  they  destroj'  much  property  in  Rostov  \ 

Mr.  Dexxis.  Not  while  I  was  there.  Not  a  great  many  shells  fell 
in  the  town.  There  was  no  such  destruction  as  there  was  in  Moscow, 
for  the  reason  that  the  Red  Guard  made  its  defense  outside  of  the 
city,  and  the  shooting  in  the  city  was  mostly  done  by  machine  guns 
and  rifles,  which  do  nothing  more  than  break  windows. 

Senator  Nelsox.  In  what  direction  did  Korniloff  retreat? 

ilr.  Dexxis.  South,  into  the  Caucasus;  and  later,  up  with  the 
Kuban  Cossacks,  according  to  report. 

Senator  Nelsox.  Down  on  the  lower  Volga? 

!Mr.  Dexxis.  No;  it  is  considerably  west  of  the  Volga. 

Senator  Overman.  Who  were  in  command  of  these  people;  were 
they  German  officers? 

Mr.  Dexxis.  They  conmianded  the  military  end  of  it.  They  did 
not  appear  before  the  public. 

Senator  Overman.  Were  these  Red  Guards  drilled?  Had  they 
been  soldiers  ? 

Mr.  Dexnis.  They  all  had  been  soldiers;  wore  soldiers'  uniforms. 
I  I'emembei'  I  was  going  home  one  day,  and  I  saw  a  boy  not  older 
than  14  or  15,  a  little  shrimp  of  a  lad,  hammering  on  the  front  door 
of  a  wealthy  man's  house  there,  and  threatening  to  shoot  everybody 
in  the  house  unless  they  opened  on  the  instant.  That  was  rather 
typical  of  the  attitude  to  the  bourgeois.  But  this  was  done  for  in- 
timidation. They  levied  a  tax  of  12,000,000  rubles  upon  Rostov. 
The  first  thing  they  did  was  to  levy  a  tax  of  1:2,000,000  rubles  on  the 
city.    That  was  later  added  to  by  10,000,000  rubles  more. 

Senator  Nelsox.  Was  that  paid? 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  think  it  was.  I  knew  the  managers  of  a  large 
cigarette  factory  there,  and  they  paid  something  over  900,000  rubles 
in  cash.  They  doubled  the  price  of  cigarettes  every  time  they  were 

Senator  Wolcott.  Do  you  knoAv  where  that  tax  money  went? 

Mr.  Dennis.  No,  sir;  I  doubt  if  anybodj'  does.  There  were  two 
wealthy  men  in  the  town  who  Avere  taxed  for  1,000,000  rubles  apiece. 

Senator  Nelson.  Did  you  go  to  other  storm  centers  there? 

Mr.  Dexnis.  That  was  the  only  real  fighting  on  any  scale  that  I 
saw  in  Russia.  I  went  back  to  Kharkov,  and  then  to  ^loscow  and 
Petrograd.  Next  to  Petrograd  and  Moscow,  I  presume  that  Kharkov 
is  one  of  the  largest  manufacturing  cities  of  Russia. 

Senator  Nelson.  Were  you  at  Moscow  when  they  had  the  revolu- 
tion ? 

Mr.  Dexxis.  I  just  missed  that.  The  buildings  were  still  burning 
when  I  got  there,  in  a  few  cases. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Have  j^ou  any  knowledge  of  atrocities  com- 
mitted by  the  officials  of  the  Bolshevik  regime,  "who  were  acting  in 
what  I  might  call  a  civil  capacity  rather  than  in  any  military  en- 
gagement, for  the  purpose  of  terrorizing  and  intimidating  the  popu- 
lation ? 


Mr.  Deniviis.  At  Xovo  Tcherkawk,  in  that  city,  a  .small  Kusriian 
toAYii,  Kaledines  liad  his  headquarters.  That  is' a  really  important 
part  of  the  Don  Cossack  iiegion.  When  they  knew  that  they  were 
going  to  give  up  the  city  of  Rostov,  the  volmiteer  army  got  together 
a  hospital  train  and  took  some  300  officers,  went  into  the  hospitals 
and  rushed  these  wounded  men  into  this  hospital  train,  and  ran  them 
to  Novo  Tcherkask.  They  got  them  out  of  Rostov  just  about  two 
days  before  the  town  fell.  They  thought  at  that  time  that  Novo 
Tcherkask  would  not  be  taken.  It  was  then,  and  the  officers  who 
were  so  badly  wounded  that  they  could  not  be  removed  from  Novo 
Tcherkask — they  could  not  get  out  by  the  railroad  because  the  rail- 
roads were  cut  off,  and  any  men  who  were  so  badly  wounded  that 
they  could  not  be  gotten  out  any  other  way  and  who  remained  there 
in  the  hospitals  and  private  homes — those  officers  were  all  killed, 
and  their  bodies  were  left  in  the  streets  of  Novo  Tcherkask  for  four 
days  before  anj^one  dared  to  touch  them. 

Senator  Oveeman.  That  is  horrible.    How  many  were  there? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Between  140  and  150.  That  was  a  matter  engendered 
by  the  hatred  between  soldiers  and  officers. 

Senator  Overman.  Were  they  Cossack  officers? 

Mr.  Dennis.  No;  only  a  few  of  the  men  who  joined  "Korniloff's 
arn(iy  were  Cossacks ;  a  very  few. 

Senator  Nelson.  Did  the  Cossacks,  as  a  rule,  join  the  Red  Army? 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  heard  of  Cossacks  who  had  been  at  the  front  who 
went  Bolshevik.  At  Christmas  time  they  sent  them  all  home  for 
Christmas  vacation,  hoping  that  the  old  people  could  straighten  them 
out,  because  they  were  against  the  movement. 

Senator  Nelson.  The  old  Cossacks  were  opposed  to  the  Bolshe- 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes.  They  owned  land  and  had  no  desire  to  give  it 
up.  The  peasants  who  owned  land  in  Russia  were  I  do  not  know 
what  percentage,  but  a  small  percentage,  of  the  peasants  of  Russia ; 
and,  of  course,  the  Cossacks  who  owned  their  land  were  against  this. 
movement,  naturally. 

Senator  Nelson.  All  settled  Cossacks  owned  their  land? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes:  by  the  Government  grant. 

Senator  Nelson.  The  hetman  of  the  Cossacks  did  not  join  the  Red 
Guard?  ^ 

Mr.  Dennis.  No,  sir.  I  do  not  know  this  as  Pdo  about  Kaledines, 
but  the  man  who  took  his  place  as  hetman  was  later  killed.  The 
story  runs  that  he  attempted  to  escape  and  was  shot.  We  question 
it  very  much ;  but  I  do  not  know  the  facts. 

Senator  Overman.  Did  they  attempt  to  divide  the  land  up 
amongst  the  people  while  you  Avere  there  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes ;  that  was  done  in  many  cases. 

Senator  Overman.  And  they  took  the  land  away  from  the  land- 
owners ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Overman.  How  did  they  divide  it;  do  you  know? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Well,  there  Avas  no  special  way  of  doing  this  thing. 
It  varied,  I  think,  with  every  community  or  every  village.  Ninety 
per  cent  of  these  peasants,  I  should  say — although  the  figures  vai-y — 
do  not  own  their  own  land,  but  they  own  it  as  a  community,  and  in 


many  cases  it  got  to  be  a  quarrel  between  one  village  and  the  next 
adjacent  as  to  which  one  was  to  get  this  estate  which  lay  in  between. 

Senator  Nelson.  They  are  all  settled  in  villages,  are  they  not? 

Mr.  Dexnis.  They  live  under  an  old  "  Bible-time  "  communist 

Senator  Nelson.  They  are  settled  in  villages  and  communes,  and 
the  land  is  owned  by  the  village  or  commune  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Nelson.  They  call  them  niirs,  do  they  not  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  The  mirs  own  the  lands  and  they  simply  appor- 
tion them  out  to  the  peasants:  each  man  has  his  particular  parcel 
to  cultivate? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes;  the  lands  are  allotted. 

Senator  Overman.  Are  they  allotted  to  the  individuals  or  allotted 
to  the  county  or  town? 

]Mr.  Dennis.  You  are  talking  about  the  old  allotments? 

Senator  Overjian.  I  am  talking  about  the  old  allotments. 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes;  that  is  right;  to  the  individual.  Now,  the  ques- 
tion arose  in  many  cases  as  to  which  village  was  to  get  this  interven- 
ing land.  While  these  people  generally  get  along  in  peace,  oftentimes 
there  is  a  good  deal  of  jealousy  between  two  villages.  Here  is  one 
of  15,000  people  and  here  is  one  of  .5,000,  and  the  question  arises  as 
to  who  shall  get  this  land  in  between,  and  in  that  event  the  village 
of  15,000  is  likely  to  get  it. 

Senator  Nelson.  Did  the  Bolsheviki  attempt  to  disturb  the  old 
system  of  mir  allotments?  Did  they  attempt  to  break  up  the  sys- 
tem of  allotments  that  prevailed  there  wheie  the  mirs  owned  the 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  believe  not,  though  it  may  be;  but  in  any  investiga- 
tion of  that  kind,  because  the  condition  of  things  was  so  kaleidoscopic, 
almost  anything  you  want  to  state  about  it  is  true,  whether  it  is 
typical  or  not. 

Senator  Nelson.  I  suppose  the  operations  under  the  Bolsheviki 
were  confined  to  the  confiscation  of  land  from  the  big  landowners  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes;  but  they  also  started  that  same  class  hatred 
between  the  peasants  who  lived  upon  their  own  land  and  those  who 
lived  under  the  comi]|une  system.  A  number  of  years  ago  they  en- 
deavored to  get  the  peasants  to  live  upon  their  own  lands,  because 
this  system  they  have  is  like  the  case  of  a  one-year  tenacy  in  this 
country,  where  nothing  is  put  back  on  the  land;  and  in  the  Volga 
Valley,  which  is  the  richest  in  the  world,  the  land  had  been  fatmed 
for  thousands  of  years,  with  nothing  being  put  back  on  the  land. 
Lenine  started  a  class  war  between  those  who  owned  their  lands  that 
way  and  those  living  in  the  communes. 

Senator  Nelson.  Is  this  town  where  you  saw  this  big  riot  that 
you  have  described  in  what  they  call  the  black  belt  of  Eussia  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Nelson.  A  rich  agricultural  prairie  country? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Nelson.  The  term  "  steppe "  there  is  about  the  same  as 
"  prairie  "  here  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes,  sir;  prairie. 


Senator  Overman.  What  did  thej  do  with  the  big  merchants  and 
stores  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  They  had  on  paper  a  plan  for  the  taking  over  of 
this  land  and  the  taking  over  of  industry,  and  how  it  should  be 
organized  and  run,  but  that  is  not  so  simple  when  you  turn  loose 
100,000,000  people  with  hate  in  their  hearts.  It  did  not  go  according 
to  the  plan.  They  took  over  a  lot  of  factories,  and  in  most  cases  a 
lot  of  different  things  happened.  Every  group,  every  community, 
was  a  law  unto  itself. 

Senator  Overman.  Did  they  loot  the  stores? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes ;  but  it  is  not  called  looting.  It  is  called  requi- 

Senator  Overman.  The  soldiers  had  the  right  to  requisition  what 
they  wanted? 

Mr.  Dennis.  They  did,  seemingly.  In  Nijni  Novgorod  the  Gov- 
ernment officials  took  over  all  the  shoe  stores  and  clothing  stores  and 
hardware  stores. 

Senator  Nelson.  Were  you  at  Nijni  Novgorod? 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  lived  there  three  months.  These  officials  took  over 
all  those  shops  without  compensation. 

Senator  Nelson.  That  is  a  big  city  of  600,000  people? 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  doubt  if  it  is  that  large.  It  is  a  city  of  some  size; 
between  250,000  and  350,000.    No  one  ever  knows  in  Eussia. 

Senator  Nelson.  That  is  where  they  hold  that  great  fair? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  Do  they  hold  it  yet? 

Mr.  Dennis.  According  to  the  soviet  newspapers  of  Eussia,  they 
had  a  magnificent  fair  there  last  summer.  There  was  no  more  fair 
there  than  there  is  on  this  table. 

Senator  Nelson.  Which  side  of  the  Volga  is  it  on  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  On  the  low  side.  The  town  is  divided  into  the  high 
town  and  the  low  town,  on  the  east  side  which  lies  right  along  the 
river.  The  soviet  newspapers,  however,  had  out  reports  that  this 
fair  was  running  very  successfully. 

Senator  Nelson.  Had  the  Bolsheviki  or  Eeds  gotten  control  of  the 
town  when  you  were  there? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Nelson.  They  were  in  possession? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Overman.  Did  the  government  undertake  to  run  them, 
when  they  took  over  these  stores  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  They  took  over  these  supplies  and  then  peddled  them 
out.  You  had  to  go  to  a  certain  commissar  and  get  a  permit  to  buy  a 
certain  pair  of  shoes,  and  then  go  and  stand  in  line.  I  was  told  there 
were  not  more  than  2,000  pairs  of  shoes  in  the  city. 

Senator  Nelson.  These  men  who  finally  got  the  shoes,  did  they 
have  to  pay  for  them? 

Mr.  Dennis.  They  bought  them  from  the  government. 

Senator  Nelson.  The  government  confiscated  them  and  then  sold 
them  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Overman.  That  is  a  way,  in  addition  to  taxation,  in  which 
the  government  gets  money  ? 


Mr.  Dennis.  It  helps.  There  was  no  thought  of  compensation. 
Of  course,  it  was  specifically  understood,  when  they  took  vjver  all 
of  the  land,  that  there  was  to  be  no  compensation. 

Senator  Xelson.  How  did  they  operate  when  the  Soviets  took  over 
the  manufacturing  industries* 

Mr.  Dennis.  They  just  took  them,  with  or  without  the  consent  of 
the  OAvners.  The  owners  did  various  things.  I  question  if  you  covdd 
iind  any  specific  case  that  w'as  typical  of  all  the  owners  here  and 

Senator  Nelson.  They  took  possession,  but  when  they  took  posses- 
sion did  they  undertake  to  operate  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Nelson.  In  what  manner? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Under  a  committee  of  workmen,  and  under  the  eco- 
nomic committee,  which,  besides  w'orkmen,  may  be  made  up  of  college 
professors,  or  whoever  happens  to  be  in  it.  But  I  fail  to  understand, 
and  it  is  quite  beyond  my  comprehension,  how  the  other  men  who 
have  returned  from  Russia  state  that  the  industry'  of  Russia  is  run- 
ning, because  it  is  not.  My  basis  for  the  statement  lies  in  the  fact 
that  I  saw  factories  in  three  cities  closed.  In  Nijni  Novgorod,  a 
large  manufacturing  town,  when  I  left  there  there  was  only  one  small 
factory  running. 

Senator  Nelson.  At  what  place? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Nijni  Novgorod — one  small  factory. 

Senator  Nelson.  That  is  a  town  of  half  a  million  people? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Three  hundred  thousand,  I  think,  would  be  nearer 
the  facts.  They  had  a  factory  there  that  had  run  at  its  height  with 
25,000  men.  When  I  first  came  there  they  Avere  running  with  from 
12,000  to  14,000.  Statistics  are  hard  to  get  in  Russia.  Nobody  knows 
anything  accurately.  The  factory  was  closed.  That  factory,  to  my 
mind,  is  a  good  example  of  the  Bolshevik  methods  in  Russia. 

Senator  Overman.  What  was  that  factory  manufacturing? 

Mr.  Dennis.  They  had  manufactured  locomotives,  and  they  changed 
it  to  munitions  and  back  to  locomotives.  The  week  I  got  there  they 
demanded  of  their  soviet  a  new-  election,  as  you  are  supposed  to  do 
under  the  constitution.  As  I  understand  it,  any  time  that  you  are 
dissatisfied  with  your  representative  of  the  soviet,  you  can  call  a 
m-eeting  and  elect  a  new  representatiA'e.  They  demanded  that  elec- 
tion. They  could  not  get  it,  so  they  went  on  a  strike  for  a  week,  and 
finally  got  it,  and  they  elected  67  per  cent  of  the  new  representatives 
from  anti-Bolshevik  parties.  But  that  is  not  according  to  the  way 
they  play  the  game  in  Russia,  so  that  election  was  declared  null  and 
void,  and  the  old  representatives  of  the  Bolsheviki  held  over. 

Across  Volga  River  there  is  a  pontoon  bridge  which  they  use  in 
summer  time  and  take  up  in  winter,  as  they  use  the  ice  in  winter. 
That  bridge  was  not  laicl  for  a  month  and  a  half  later  than  usual 
because  they  Avere  afraid  the  Avorkmen  in  this  factory  would  come 
across  the  river  and  take  the  town.  I  have  tried  to  go  to  that  town 
and  have  run  into  a  line  of  Red  Guards  hiding  around  in  the  grass 
Avith  machine  guns,  who  had  this  town  surrounded,  Avatching  it, 
because  they  were  afraid  these  Avorkmen  were  coming  over. 

Senator  'Wolcott.  I  gather  that  the  Avorkmen  in  this  town  you 
speak  of  had  become  disgusted  with  the  Bolshevik  croAvd? 


Mr.  Dexxis.  I  should  say  that  is  exactly  the  state  of  mind  of  a 
large  majority  of  the  workmen  and  the  peasants  at  the  present  time  in 

Senator  Nelsox.  Did  there  seem  to  be  any  head  or  system  to  their 
city  government  there  ? 

^Ir.  Dexxis.  So  far  as  I  could  get  information  on  such  things,  in 
talking  with  other  men  from  other  cities,  I  think  they  had  about 
as  efficient  a  local  soviet  in  Nijni  Novgorod  as  any  place.  They  had 
three  men  who  did  some  things  with  executive  ability.  Two  of'  these 
men  were  men  of  some  education.  One  of  them  had  been  to  a  Rus- 
sian university.  But  in  the  last  month  I  was  there  they  fired  the  two 
top  men  in  the  soviet.  One  of  them,  who  was  what  they  call  the  state 
commissar,  said  that  they  fired  those  two  men  and  put  in  men  who 
were  of  more  radical  beliefs,  who  were  of  a  more  radical  state  of 
mind,  because  those  men  were  too  conser^  iitive;  and  that  tendency,  I 
think,  can  be  found  all  over  Eussia. 

Senator  Overmax'.  You  say  that  three-fourths  are  against  the 
Bolsheviki.  Why  do  they  not  rise  up  and  overthrow  the  Bolshevik 
government  ? 

Mr.  Dex^xis.  One  answer  is  to  shrug  your  shoulders  and  say  "  That 
is  Russia ;  that  is  the  Russian  character."  The  Russians,  Avhile  they 
know  how  to  cooperate  in  business  and  in  cooperative  societies  (and 
they  did  organize  long  before  the  war  and  during  the  war  in  a  busi- 
ness way),  when  it  comes  to  politics  are  absolutely  hopeless.  They 
do  not  know  the  meaning  of  the  word  "'  compromise."'  If  3'ou  were 
to  gather  around  this  table  representatives  of  the  Methodist  Episco- 
pal Church,  of  the  Presbyterian  Church,  of  the  Catholic  Church, 
and  of  the  Jewish  Church,  and  of  all  the  other  sects  that  we  have 
in  this  country,  and  ask  them  to  form  one  church,  you  would  have 
the  same  situation  you  would  have  in  Russia  if  you  were  to  ask 
these  political  parties  to  get  together. 

Senator  Nelsox.  The  peasants — ^that  is,  the  real  Russian  peasants — 
belong  to  the  Greek  Church,  do  they  not? 

Mr.  Dennis.  They  do  not  call  it  the  Greek  Church,  but  the  Rus- 
sian Church. 

Senator  Nelsox^.  I  mean  the  Russian  Church. 

Mr.  Dexx^is.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Overmax.  Do  you  suppose  that  some  great  patriotic  leader 
like  Nicholas,  or  a  great  general  in  the  army,  could  organize  these 
people  into  an  army  ? 

Mr.  Dexnis.  I  very  much  have  my  doubts.  I  like  the  Russian 
people  very  much — the  ones  that  I  have  come  in  contact  with  I  like 
personally  very  much — but  if  you  try  to  do  anything  with  them,  to 
organize  "them,  you  can  not  do  it,  because  they  will  not  get  together. 
There  is  a  saying  in  Russia  which  very  plainly  describes  the  Russian 
characteristics,  and  which  is  true,  that  any  time  you  get  three  Rus- 
sians together  you  have  five  opinions,  and  I  think  that  any  man  who 
has  tried  to  do  things  with  them  will  agree  to  that  statement. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Then  the  fact  that  the  Bolsheviki  vigorously 
pursued  their  terrorism  served  to  restrain  at  least  75  per  cent  of  the 
people  from  asserting  their  wish  in  overthrowing  the  Bolsheviki? 

Mr.  Dex^xis.  They" very  thoroughly  Jntimidatecl  them  by  standing 
them  up  against  a  wall  and  shooting  them,  and  by  imprisonment,  and 


jmurAUAJN  JJA. 

by  a  general  lack  of  safety,  and  the  requisitioning  and  taking  over 
of  houses  and  all  that  sort  of  thing.  They  had  them  very  thoroughly 
intimidated.  The  Eussian  peasant  has  fought  again  and  again  and 
is  fighting  against  the  Red  Guard.  Why  ?  On  account  of  fixed  prices 
for  food  and  fixed  prices  on  grain,  at  which  he  must  sell,  and  because 
on  the  things  that  he  needs  to  buy,  which,  as  a  general  rule,  he  can 
not  get  because  there  is  A-ery  little  of  them,  there  are  no  fixed  prices. 
The  sky  is  the  limit.  I  have  seen  at  the  bazaar  in  the  city  of  Nijni 
Xovgorod  the  Eed  Guard  go  down  there  and  just  take  the  food  away 
from  the  peasants  at  the  fixed  price,  which  is  far  below  the  market 
price.  They  feel  about  this  the  same  as  the  American  farmer  would 
if  you  put  a  price  of  '2-2  cents  on  his  wheat  to-morrow,  instead  of  $2 — 
or  whatever  it  is.  Wlaen  the  soldiers  came  out  to  take  the  food  there 
were  many  fights,  because  the  peasant  had  been  told  to  take  his  gun 
home,  and  he  did,  and  in  some  cases  he  took  a  machine  gun,  and  he 
had  been  told  to  use  it,  and  had  been  told  he  was  a  free  man ;  and  the 
peasants  fought,  and  the  Eed  Guards  many  times  got  the  worst  of  it. 
Of  course,  while  it  is  not  written  in  Eussia,  and  I  do  not  know  that 
they  Avould  agree  with  this  at  all,  it  would  seem  that  there  is  only  one 
rule  under  which  the  Bolsheviki  work  in  Eussia,  and  that  is  that  the 
end  justifies  the  means. 

Senator  Overjian.  The  whole  population  is  a  mob?  It  is  just 
anarchy  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Of  course,  if  you  are  not  a  Bolshevik,  "  Get  out.  We 
will  not  feed  you.  And  if  you  work  against  us,  we  will  kill  you."  I 
can  not  imagine  that  it  was  any  more  dangerous  under  Ivan  the  Ter- 
rible for  a  man  to  speak  openly  against  the  government  than  it  is 
at  the  present  time. 

Senator  Nelson.  Can  you  give  us,  in  brief,  an  outline  of  their 
scheme  of  government,  of  the  national  Bolshevik  government;  what 
their  plan  is? 

Mr.  Dennis.  The  leaders  of  this  government  were  advanced  social- 
ists of  the  radical  type  and  believed  in  going  the  full  length  of  social- 
ism, and  going  it  by  the  most  radical  methods,  by  force.  Other 
precepts  they  have;  that  there  is  no  such  thing  as  private  capital,  or 
private  property,  and  that  everything  must  belong  to  the  state,  all 
land  and  all  sources  of  production ;  and  they  have  had  it  specifically 
nominated  in  the  bond  that  there  shall  be  no  discussion  as  to  how  it 
shall  be  done.  They  take  these  things  by  force,  without  compensation 
for  them. 

Senator  Nelson.  Then  do  they  follow  it  up  and  sav'  how  the  state 
is  to  utilize  this  property  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  think  that  on  paper  they  had  a  pretty  good  scheme, 
from  their  viewpoint;  but  it  is  not  the  easiest  thing  in  the  world  to 
organize,  with  a  vast  country  and  a  terribly  disorganized  people  who 
are  amazingly  unintelligent,  so  far  as  reading  and  writing  are  con- 
cerned. They  cut  themselves  out  a  big  piece  of  work,  and  they  started 
something  they  could  not  control.  When  they  got  ready  to  give  a 
man  orders,  they  found  they  could  not  give  him  orders. 

Senator  Nelson.  Take,  for  instance,  the  matter  of  land.  Their 
scheme  was  that  all  of  the  land  belonged  to  the  state,  was  it  not,  and 
the  use  of  it  shonld  be  distributed  among  the  peasants? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes.  sir. 


Senator  Nelson.  And  when  you  come  to  the  manufactuiing  indus- 
tries, their  scheme  was  to  take  possession  of  them  and  have  them 
operated  by  the  government  ? 

Mr.  Deistnis.  They  belonged  to  the  people,  through  the  government. 
They  say  everything  belongs  to  the  people,  because  that  is  a  more 
popular  way  of  putting  it. 

Senator  Nelson.  What  about  the  banks? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Ditto. 

Senator  Nelson.  They  were  to  be  taken  over  by  the 

Mr.  Dennis.  They  were  taken  over. 

Senator  Nelson.  Were  they  to  be  run  by  the  Bolshevik  men  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes,  sir;  for  the  people.  Private  property  goes  out 
of  the  thing. 

Senator  Nelson.  There  is  no  longer  any  private  property  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  From  which  you  receive  an  income — no.  I  had  a  very 
interesting  conversation  with  the  bank  commissar  in  Nijni  Novgo- 
rod. I  think  I  could  bust  any  good  bank  there  is  in  this  city  in  about 
a  week,  if  they  would  let  me  run  it.  I  do  not  know  anything  about  a 
bank.  This  chap  had  very  interesting  ideas  about  it.  Inasmuch  as 
we  know  that  money  is  the  root  of  all  evil,  this  chap's  idea,  as  he  ex- 
pressed it  to  nie,  was  to  get  rid  of  money.  He  said,  "  I  hope  to  see 
the  day  when  a  chicken  will  cost  5,000  rubles,  and  that  will  mean 
that  money  will  have  no  value,  and  we  will  get  rid  of  it.  We  will  not 
need  any  money." 

Senator  Nelson.  He  would  go  bacli  to  the  system  of  barter  and  ex- 
change that  prevailed  before  we  got  any  money  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  do  not  think  he  thought  much  beyond  the  point  of 
getting  rid  of  money ;  it  is  the  root  of  all  evil,  tear  it  up,  and  that 
kind  of  idea.  That  was  from  a  man  who  had  charge  of  all  the  banks 
in  his  district. 

Senator  Nelson.  The  money  they  have  in  circulation  now  is  all 
paper  money,  is  it  not? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Nelson.  Irredeemable  paper  money,  which  they  are  print- 
ing and  issuing  almost  without  limit? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Nelson.  What  have  they  done  with  the  gold  that  was  in 
the  banks? 

Mr.  Dennis.  There  were  several  gold  centers.  At  Nijni  Novgorod 
they  had  a  lot  of  gold.  I  at  one  time  knew  the  amount  of  gold  in 
Nijni  Novgorod. 

Senator  Nelson.  Did  they  not,  as  a  consequence  of  the  treaty  of 
Brest-Litovsk,  take  over  about  $200,000,000  of  gold  of  the  towns? 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  do  not  know.  There  was  some  talk  about  it,  but  I 
do  not  know  the  facts.  I  know  they  brought  to  Nijni  Novgorod  from 
Eiga  a  large  amount  of  gold,  stocks,  bonds,  and  collateral  of  all 
kinds,  brouo'ht  with  the  German  bankers  who  had  -run  those  banks. 
Those  Germans  I  knew  personally  in  Nijni  Novgorod,  and  they  were 
sitting  around  hoping  and  praying  they  could  get  their  hands  on  this 

Senator  Overman.  When  you  got  your  check  from  the  United 
States  for  your  salary,  how  did  you  get  the  money  on  it? 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  always  got  the  money  directly.  But  it  was  possible 
to  go  out  and  sell  it,  jjecause  many  wealthy  people  who  had  money 


hidden,  who  s;nv  this  thing  coming  and  got  tlieir  money  out  of 
the  banks  in  cash,  were  getting  nervous  because  all  the  time  they 
were  having  searches  and  it  was  possible  that  this  money  would  be 
discovered  and  be  confiscated,  and  they  were  very  glad  to  exchange 
money  for  a  draft  on  America,  because  it  was  easier  to  hide  it. 

Senator  Wolcott.  This  gentleman  who  had  these  interesting  finan- 
cial views  you  speak  of,  the  commisar  of  the  banks,  I  am  curious  to 
know  whether  he  was  in  a  position  of  large  responsibility.  How 
much  territory  did  he  have  under  his  jurisdiction  where  he  was  going 
to  put  into  effect  these  ideas? 

Mr.  Dennis.  He  was  running  the  banks  of  Xijni  Novgorod. 

Senator  Woixott.  That  is  how  large  a  place? 

j\Ir.  Dennis.  Three  hundred  thousand,  with  a  lot  of  big  banks 
there,  with  big  supplies  of  money. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Did  he  stay  in  that  office  as  long  as  you  were  in 
the  countrv? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes. 

Senator  Xelson.  Were  you  in  southern  Russia,  on  the  border  of 
the  Black  Sea.  at  Odessa,  and  in  the  Crimea? 

Mr.  Di:x>"is.  Xo.  sir. 

Senator  Xeeshn.  Were  you  on  the  Siberian  Eailroad? 

INlr.  Dennis.  Yes;  Ave  went  across  by  the  trans-Siberian,  going  in 
1)y  Vladivostok  to  Moscow. 

Senator  Xelson.  What  time  did  vou  go  in? 

^fr.  Den>is.  The  1st  of  Xoveniber.  1917. 

Senator  Xelson.  I  understand,  now,  and  I  want  to  know  if  it  is 
not  your  information,  that  what  I  call  the  anti-Red  Guard,  the  anti- 
Bolsheviki,  control  the  railroads  as  far  west  as  Omsk,  and  perhaps 
as  far  west  as  Perm ;  is  not  that  correct? 

]\Ir.  Dennis.  I  have  only  newspaper  reports  on  that. 

Senator  Xelson.  Is  not  that  your  understanding,  too? 

^Ir.  Dennis.  Yes;  from  what  I  read. 

Senator  Xelson.  Do  they  not  control  that  whole  line  from  ^"ladi- 
vostok  out  as  far  as  Perm,  which  is  the  largest  town  west  of  the 
Ural  Mountains? 

Mr.  Dennis.  That  might  be  true  to-day,  and  to-morrow  be  not 
true,  because  my  experience  with  the  railroads  in  Russia  was  that  you 
ne^er  Imew.  You  got  on  a  train,  and  perhaps  you  got  there  and  per- 
haps you  did  not. 

Senator  Overman.  You  did  not  know  Lenine  and  Ti'otsky? 

]\Ir.  Dennis.  Personally,  no,  sir. 

Senator  Over  .man.  Were  they  men  of  ability,  brains,  and  educa- 
tion, by  reputation? 

yir.  Dennis.  Yes.  sir:  I  should  say  thev  were  very  able  men  and 
thoroughly  believed  that  this  was  the  way  to  bring  about  heaven  on 
earth,  and  to  end  the  ills  of  society. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Their  route  to  heaven,  though,  seems  to  have 
been  first  through  hell? 

Mr.  Dennis.  The  route  was  circuitous.  However,  as  you  know 
from  reading  the  Liberator,  the  American  magazine,  Mr.  Lenine 
answers  any  criticism  which  I  might  make,  or  any  other  man  tcstifv- 
iu£r  here,  and  say.:  "Of  course  this  happened  and  that  happened; 


of  course  it  did.  We  have  made  mistakes,  but  what  can  you  expect  ? 
Look  where  we  are  going  and  what  we  are  aiming  at — what  we  want 
to  do !  He  meets  almost  all  those  criticisms  in  that  article  in  the 

Senator  Nelson.  Their  aim,  theoretically  at  least,  is  a  pure 
socialistic  government,  is  it  not? 

Mr.  Denxis.  With  one  class  only. 

Senator  Nelson.  With  one  class  only,  and  that  is  what  they  call  the 
proletariat  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  That  includes  the  peasants  and  the  working  men, 
I  suppose? 

Mr.  Dennis.  In  Russia  they  would  say  it  was  rather  simpler  than 
in  any  other  country  because  "they  have  more  of  the  proletariat.  The 
proletariat  are  the  larger  per  cent  of  the  people,  and  the  so-called 
upper  classes  are  a  smaller  per  cent,  and  the  scheme  was  to  have 
only  one  class  when  they  got  through. 

Senator  Nelson.  They  did  not  make  any  provision  for  what  we 
call  in  this  country  the  large  body  of  consumers,  did  they?  They 
did  not  have  any  idea  on  that,  did  they  ? 

^Ir.  Dennis.  They  look  upon  everybody  as  a  producer'  and  con- 
sumer and,  according  to  the  plan,  everybody  has  plenty.  There  is 
no  difference  in  class,  no  difference  in  caste. 

Senator  Overman  .  Is  any  attempt  made  toward  education  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes ;  they  have  very  fine  plans  on  paper. 

Senator  Nelson.  Was  not  the  country  invaded  a  good  deal  by 
German  business  men? 

Mr.  Dennis.  German  business  men  and  commissions  were  in 
Nijni  Novgorod.  I  hardly  ever  went  out  of  the  house  except  some- 
body, paid  by  a  German,  followed  me  around. 

Senator  Nelson.  And  the  Germans  seemed  to  have  the  upper  hand 
among  the  Reds? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Very  much  so. 

Senator  Nelson.  In  other  words,  there  is  an  affiliation  and  com- 
bination between  the  Bolsheviki,  the  Red  people,  and  the  German 
people  who  were  there  in  Russia  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  An  affiliation  to  this  extent.  This  is  purely  my  per- 
sonal opinion,  as  is  all  of  it,  from  my  observation.  There  was  an 
affiliation  to  this  extent,  that  each  group  was  trying  to  use  the  other 
group.  It  was  not  that  they  had  any  great  sympathy  with  Germany 
at  all,  but  if  they  could  use  Germany,  well  and  good ;  and  Germany 
was  trying  to  use  them. 

Senator  Nelson.  But,  I  mean  there  were  a  good  many  German 
missions  there,  business  men  and  spies  and  others  that  were  con- 
stantly operating  there? 

Mr."  Dennis.  Yes,  sir.  I  was  very  well  aware  of  it  in  Nijni 
Novgorod.  They  had  large  commissions  there,  and  ostensibly  these 
men  were  looking  after  the  welfare  of  the  Central  Eiripire  prisoners. 
That  is  why  they  were  there,  on  the  surface.     They  were  there  when 

I  left. 

Senator    Nelson.  Carrying   on   the  business   of  propaganda   in 

Russia  ? 

85723—19 12 


ilr.  Dennis.  They  were.  I  knew  of  two  cases  where  they  had 
bought  stock,  and  they  carried  the  gamble  through  to  the  last  minute, 
buying  stock  in  industries,  and  buying  estates. 

Senator  Nelson.  You  seem  to  be  well  posted.  If  there  is  any- 
thing else  you  have  not  told  us  about  this  matter  that  you  think 
we  ought  to  know,  or  the  American  people  ought  to  know,  I  wish 
you  would  tell  us. 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  do  not  know  whether  this  belongs  in  this  hearing 
or  not,  but  a  thing  that  interested  me  very  much  was  to  discover 
a  number  of  men  in  positions  of  power,  commissars  in  the  cities 
here  and  there  in  Russia,  who  had  lived  in  America. 

Senator  Nelson.  Who  had  been  graduated  here? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  Where  had  they  lived  mostly,  in  New  York? 

Mr.  Dennis.  In  the  industrial  centers.  I  met  a  number  of  them, 
and  I  sat  around  and  listened  to  attacks  upon  America  that  I  would 
not  take  from  any  man  in  this  country ;  but  I  took  it  over  there  be- 
cause I  was  asking  favors,  and  I  was  not  in  a  position  to  get  into  an 
altercation,  as  I  did  not  want  to  get  in  jail. 

Senator  Nelson.  Were  the  men  who  had  lived  for  years  in  this 
country,  and  had  gone  back  there,  occupying  prominent  positions  in 
this  Bolshevik  government? 

^Ir.  Dennis.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Wolcx)tt.  In  the  main,  of  what  nationality  were  they  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Hebrew. 

Senator  Wolcott.  German  Hebrews? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Russian  Hebrews.  The  men  that  I  met  there  had 
lived  in  America,  according  to  their  stories,  anywhere  from  3  to  12 

Senator  Nelson.  You  know,  years  ago  they  colonized  a  lot  of  Ger- 
mans over  there  in  southern  Russia.    We  call  them  Mennonites. 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes ;  we  call  them  that  in  this  country. 

Senator  Nelson.  Do  you  know  what  their  attitude  was? 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  do  not  know  what  their  prejudice  was,  but  I  judge 
that  they  had  a  prejudice,  from  the  information  I  got  that  they  at 
the  end  were  pretty  badly  treated  by  the  Russian  Government.  They 
were  deported  and  sent  into  Siberia. 

Senator  Nelson.  They  were  settled  there  originally  because  they 
did  not  believe  in  war.  They  were  permitted  to  emigrate  to  Russia, 
and  were  given  land,  and  given  immunitj'  from  military  service;  but 
that  militaiy  immunity  was  afterwards  revoked.  Now,  were  they 
with  the  Bolsheviki,  or  were  they  with  the  other  side  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  could  not  answer  that  question.  I  could  only  say 
that  these  men  in  the  last  year  of  the  war,  and  some  of  them  before, 
in  large  numbers,  were  dispossessed  and  sent  into  Siberia  and  put 
in  the  internment  camps,  because  of  supposedly  pro-German  senti- 

Senator  Nelson.  They  occupied  that  territory  around  the  lower 
Don,  did  they  not? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes ;  there  were  numbers  of  them  there,  and  then  they 
were  pretty  well  scattered. 

Spncitnr  Nei^on.  In  the  black  belt,  on  the  verge  of  the  arid  countrv. 


Senator  Overman.  Are  these  people  over  there,  who  have  lived  in 
the  United  States,  taking  part  in  this  Bolshevik  movement? 

Mr.  Dennis.  This  is  a  thing  that,  in  my  opinion,  backed  up  by 
the  opinions  of  other  Americans,  Englishmen,  and  Frenchmen  with 
whom  I  talked  when  we  got  into  Moscow,  and  were  waiting  there 
three  weeks  before  we  got  out,  and  comparing  notes,  seems  more  in- 
teresting than  the  fact  that  they  are  there  in  positions  of  power,  that 
these  men  were  the  most  bitter  and  implacable  men  in  Russia  on  the 
progi'am  of  the  extermination,  if  necessary,  of  the  bourgeois  class. 

Senator  Nelson.  They  constitute  the  Red  element,  do  they  not? 

Mr.  Dennis.  In  many  cases. 

Senator  Nelson.  In  most  cases? 

Mr.  Dennis.  In  many  cases.    I  would  not  say  in  most,  but  in  many. 

Senator  Nelson.  Trotsky  himself  came  from  this  country,  did  he 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes ;  he  had  lived  in  this  country. 

Senator  Overman.  You  say  they  are  in  favor  of  the  extermination 
of  the  bourgeois  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes,  sir.  I  never  met  a  more  implacable  individual 
than  a  man  that  they  called  the  war  commissar  in  Nijni  Novgorod. 
He  had  been  in  this  country  for  a  number  of  years. 

Senator  Nelson.  They  were  Hebrews  that  had  been  in  this  coun- 

Mr.  Dennis.  These  men  are ;  yes,  sir. 

Senator  Overman.  Do  you  know  of  any  effort  they  are  making  to 
carry  that  propaganda  to  this  country? 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  can  not  go  into  court  and  prove  it,  but  I  have 
some  very  definite  suspicions,  and  some  facts  which  would  indicate 
considerable;  yes,  sir. 

Senator  Nelson.  Give  us  what  you  have. 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  believe  the  information  on  that  score  that  I  have  is 
already  in  the  hands  of  the  Government,  through  other  sources; 
but,  going  to  their  meetings  as  I  have  done  in  the  city  of  Chicago, 
there  is  no  question  at  all  about  their  approval  of  the  Russian 
system  and  of  their  desire  to  bring  it  to  pass  in  this  country. 

Senator  Nelson.  Are  there  many  of  that  class  of  people  in  Chi- 

Mr.  Dennis.  The  first  meeting  I  went  to  was  in  the  Chicago  Coli- 
seum, which  was  packed.  Indeed,  they  had  overflow  meetings,  and 
all  the  speakers  had  to  go  out  and  double  up. 

Senator  Nelson.  And  that  was  a  socialist  meeting? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes,  sir.  _ 

Senator  Nelson.  Publishing  Russian  propaganda? 

Mr.  Dennis.  A  red-flag  meeting. 

Senator  Overman.  Is  there  any  affiliation  between  them  and  the 
I.  W.  W.  of  this  country  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  As  to  any  affiliation  in  fact  or  in  organization  I  do> 
not  know ;  but  they  are  absolutely  affiliated,  I  should  say,  inasmuch  as 
they  are  both  going  to  the  same  place. 

Senator  Overman.  As  they  both  tend  to  the  same  thing? 

Mr.  Dennis.  They  both  want  the  same  thing. 

Senator  Nelson.  All  aiming  for  the  same  end  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes,  sir. 


Senator  Nelson.  By  the  same  methods? 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  see  no  difference  between  them  at  all;  but  as  to 
whether  they  have  any  affiliation  in  organization  I  do  not  know. 
That  is  bound  to  come,  I  think.  If  the  movement  goes  on  they  will 
get  together,  of  course. 

Senator  A'elson.  Are  they  circulating  much  Bolshevik  literature 
out  in  Chicago? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Have  you  seen  copies  of  the  American  Bolshevik, 
published  in  Minneapolis? 

Senator  Nelson.  Yes;  and  I  had  something  from  that  printed  in 
the  Congressional  Record. 

]\Ir.  Dennis.  That  is  a  fair  example  of  it.  I  have  here  some  of  the 
handbills  they  were  distributing,  which  call  for  immediate  action. 

Senator  O^terman.  Did  you  see  that  great  handbill  that  they 
were  sending  all  over  the  country  and  posting  up,  "  The  War  is  over, 
now  for  revolution  "  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  have  not  seen  that;  no,  sir.  But  nothing  of  that 
kind  would  surprise  me,  after  what  I  have  learned  in  Chicago. 

Senator  Wolcott.  What  is  the  seating  capacity  of  the  Coliseum? 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  do  not  know.  Several  times  I  asked  what  it  was, 
but  I  could  not  get  definite  figures  on  it.  I  think  it  runs  from  six  to 
ten  thousand. 

Senator  Wolcott.  At  this  large  meeting  which  you  attended,  at 
which  they  had  to  have  overflow  meetings,  did  the  meeting  seem  to 
be  in  sympathy  Avitli  the  ideas  expressed,  or  was  it  made  up  largely 
of  people  who  were  there  just  to  look  on  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  There  were  there  a  number  of  observers  like  myself, 
and  a  good  many  Go^-ernment  observers  were  there,  but  with  the  first 
mention  of  the  names  of  Lenine  and  Trotsky  the  crowd  arose  to  its 
feet  and  applauded  for  five  minutes.  Thej'  had  on  the  wall.  I  re- 
member, a  long  stiip  of  paper  containing  a  list  of  the  soviet  repub- 
lics of  the  world.  This  list  was  a  little  premature,  I  think.  Neverthe- 
less it  was  there.  It  began  with  Russia,  Germany,  Norway,  Sweden, 
and  went  on  down  through  the  list,  and  at  the  bottom  was  a  large 
question  mark,  "Which  is  next?"  And  every  speaker,  not  by  actual 
words,  but  by  inference,  said  that  America  w'ould  be  the  next  one; 
and  everj'  time  that  was  done  there  was  sure  to  be  applause. 

Senator  Nelson.  Did  you  observe  the  character  of  the  people  there, 
or  their  nationality ''( 

Mr.  Dennis.  It  was  a  very  well-dressed,  intelligent-looking  crowd; 
not  starving  people  by  any  means.  Indeed,  I  have  always  maintained 
that  Bolshevism  is  not  a  cry  or  demand  for  bread;  it  is  a  state  of 
mind,  and  it  must  be  met  as  such.  They  were  a  pretty  well-dressed, 
intelligent  crowd. 

Senator  Nelson.  I  mean  as  to  their  nationality.  Were  they  native- 
born  Americans,  or  were  they  foreigners? 

Mr.  Dennis.  One  could  only  tell  by  the  applause  when  the 
speeches  were  made  in  the  different  languages,  as  to  the  predominant 
number  of  people  there.  We  had  speeches  in  Polish,  Yiddish,  and 
German,  but  when  the  Russian  delegate  got  up  and  said,  "Com- 
rades," which  is  a  great  word  in  Russia,  I  should  say  at  least  70  per 
cent  of  that  audience  got  to  their  feet. 


Senator  Wolcott.  Which  tongue  seemed  to  rank  next  to  the  lius- 
sian  at  that  meeting? 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  would  say  Yiddish.  There  was  an  American  work- 
man, about  50  years  old,  who  sat  immediately  to  my  riglit,  with  whom 
I  talked  a  good  deal;  a  well-dressed,  first-class  looking  workman.  It 
was  really  my  first  contact  with  that  type  of  man,  and  I  will  tell  you 
that  I  would  just  as  willingly  try  to  dri^e  a  tenpenny  nail  into  a 
cement  block  as  to  try  to  get  an  idea  into  that  man's  head.  I  never 
found  any  greater  hatred  than  that  man  had  for  the  capitalistic  class, 
as  he  called  them. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Then  he  was  of  American  nationality '( 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Nelson.  From  what  you  have  seen  since  you  came  back, 
there  at  Chicago,  j'ou  would  think  there  is  propaganda  going  on  here 
in  this  country  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Very  definitely. 

Senator  Nelson.  Bolshevik  propaganda  ? 

Mr.  Dennis;  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  As  I  understood  you  awhile  ago,  you  found  some 
of  the  very  prominent  men  in  the  Bolshevik  government  over  there 
that  were  men  who  had  lived  in  this  country  and  gone  back  to  Eussia. 

Mr.  Dennis.  The  interesting  thing  about  it  was  not  their  promi- 
nence but  their  bitterness. 

Senator  Nelson.  They  were  most  bitter? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes. 

Senator  Overman.  Did  you  recognize  any  speakers  of  prominence 
at  that  meeting? 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  beg  pardon? 

Senator  Overman.  Were  any  of  these  speakers  men  of  prominence 
in  Chicago  or  in  this  country? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Oh,  yes;  all  the  men  who  have  been  on  trial  before 
Judge  Landis  spoke  there. 

Senator  Nelson.  Can  you  give  the  names  of  these  speakers  at 
Chicago  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Steadman,  Victor  Berger,  and  what  is  the  man's  name 
that  begins  with  Er?  He  is  a  Norwegian.  All  the  men  who  have 
been  on  trial  before  Judge  Landis  spoke  at  that  meeting,  and  a  num- 
ber of  others. 

Senator  Overman.  There  has  been  more  than  one  meeting? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes;  I  have  gone  to  some  smaller  meetings. 

Senator  Nelson.  They  have  small  ward  meetings,  do  they  not,  in 
the  localities  where  they  live  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  And  ha-\e  local  speakers  there? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  And  they  are  at  it  continually,  are  they  not? 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  think  this  can  be  proved.  There  are  now  some  paid 
traveling  speakers.    The  organization  has  a  paid  staff. 

Senator  Nelson.  Have  you  come  across  any  of  these  men  who 
have  been  in  Eussia  and  have  come  back  here  and  are  carrying  on 
propaganda  here? 

Mr.  Dennis.  No. 

Senator  Nelson.  Are  you  acquainted  with  this  Mr.  Williams? 


Mr.  Dexxis.  I  do  not  know  Mr.  Williams  or  Mr.  Eeed.  I  have 
read  their  stuif,  and  John  Williams'w  wife's  book. 

Senator  Nelson.  You  did  not  come  across  them  in  Russia? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Both  of  these  men  had  left  Soviet  Russia  before  I 
got  in  there. 

Senator  Nelson.  Do  you  find  many  native-born  Americans  work- 
ing in  this  propaganda  here? 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  am  not  prepared  to  say.  I  do  not  know  the  men 
and  their  history  well  enough  to  say,  sir. 

Senator  Overman.  What  is  the  meaning  of  the  word  " soviet"? 

Mr.  Dennis.  The  nearest  translation  would  be  "  committee,"  or 
"  conference.'"  ''  Conference,"  I  think,  would  perhaps  be  the  nearest 
English  equivalent. 

Senator  Overman.  What  percentage  of  the  people  of  Russia  are 
educated  I 

3Ir.  Dennis.  The  figures  vary.  The  figures  as  to  illiteracy  run 
anywhere  from  70  to  85  per  cent.  It  depends  upon  what  man  you 
happen  to  be  reading.  I  do  not  think  they  Imow  Sinything  about 
accurate  statistics  in  Russia. 

Senator  Over:man.  Under  the  old  regime,  did  they  have  any  pub- 
lic schools? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes;  about  5  per  cent  of  the  people,  under  the  old 
regime,  were  permitted  a  real  education,  according  to  the  best  au- 
thority that  I  can  get.  There  are  some  figures  on  that,  which,  so 
far  as  I  know,  are  accurate  enough,  as  to  education,  schools,  and  so 
forth,  and  how  many  children  actually  had  a  chance  to  go  to  school 
in  Russia. 

Senator  Nelson.  But  the  Russian  peasants,  as  a  rule,  are  illiterate^ 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes.  I  do  not  know  of  anybody  who  knows  the 
situation  thoroughly,  who  talks  about  the  situation  in  Russia  as  a 
democracy.  I  have  heaixl  many  people  talk  about  it  as  a  great  de- 
mocracy. To  my  mind  that  is  an  absolute  misnomer,  and  is  not  in 
accordance  with  the  printed  and  spoken  statements  of  Lenine  and 
others,  who  ought  to  know  wliat  kind  of  a  show  they  are  running 
over  there.  They  do  not  call  it  that.  They  specificallj'  state  that  it 
is  not  a  democracy. 

Senator  Overman.  Not  a  democracy? 

]\Ir.  Dennis.  No ;  and  it  is  not  supposed  to  be.  It  is  an  autocracy 
of  the  proletariat. 

Senator  Overman.  They  do  not  want  liberty? 

]\Ir.  Dennis.  Well,  they  would  say  they  did.  They  would  not 
agree  with  that.  But  they  want  it  in  a  way  that  is  peculiar,  accord- 
ing to  our  ideas  in  this  country. 

Senator  Nelson.  Thev  have  in  these  different  mirs  or  villages,  and 
in  the  wards  or  portions  of  cities  themselves,  their  local  Soviets,  or 
local  councils? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  And  they  send  representatives  to  the  national 
soviet  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  The  head  soviet. 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  And  that  constitutes  their  government,  really? 


Mr.  Dennis.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  Of  course,  the  general  soviet  has  to  have  admin- 
istrative officers? 

Mr.  Dennis.  It  would  be  democratic  if  the  people  away  back  in  the 
villages  and  in  the  factories  could  elect  and  send  up  anybody  they 
wanted  to,  but  the  fact  remains  that  up  to  date  they  have  not  been 
permitted  to.    Thej^  have  to  send  Bolsheviks. 

Senator  Nelson.  Or  they  will  not  be  received? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes. 

Senator  Overman.  If  they  elect  one  of  their  own  men  who  is  an 
anti-Bolshevik,  what  is  the  result?    They  just  do  not  receive  him? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Well,  that  case  I  spoke  of  in  the  factory  at  Novgorod 
would  be  typical.  They  declared  the  election  null  and  void  and  held 
over  the  old  representatives  to  the  soviet.  In  some  cases  they  told  the 
people,  "  You  must  elect  Bolsheviks  and  Bolsheviks  only."  Indeed, 
there  is  going  to  be  just  one  class,  and  one  party  in  this  class. 

Senator  Nelson.  Of  course  it  is  only  in  the  territory  that  the  Bol- 
sheviki  control,  either  permanently  or  temporarily,  that  they  have 
succeeded  in  forming  these  local  Soviets  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  In  the  other  part  of  Russia  that  is  in  the  control 
of  the  white  guard,  or  the  anti-Bolsheviki,  they  have  not  adopted 
that  system? 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  do  not  know,  because  all  the  time  I  was  there  after 
I  got  in  I  was  in  soviet  Eussia,  and  I  have  no  information  about  the 
outside  other  than  this  information. 

Senator  Overman.  That  general  congress  or  assembly  representing 
the  government  is  not  called  the  Duma  now,  under  the  new  system  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  No. 

Senator  Overman.  What  do  they  call  it? 

Mr.  Dennis.  It  is  called  the  central  soviet. 

Senator  Nelson.  The  have  abolished  the  legislative  duma,  have 

Mr.  Dennis.  It  is  very  interesting  to  note  that  these  Soviets  all  the 
way  around  will  not  take  orders  from  anybody  unless  they  want  to. 
If  it  fits  in  with  their  plan,  well  and  good.  If  it  does  not,  they  do  not 
obey.  It  is  the  same  way  with  the  committee.  If  they  do  not  do  the 
right  thing,  they  fire  them  and  get  another  that  will,  and  they  get 
quick  action. 

Senator  Overman.  Will  they  have  a  general  law  for  the  general 
soviet  itself? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes;  if  it  happens  to  tally  with  what  they  want  to  do. 
Of  course,  there  has  been  a  flood  of  "  decrets."  Every  man  in  a 
town  that  has  any  power  issues  a  decret,  and  sometimes  they  are 
wise  decrets  and  looking  to  the  best  interests  of  the  people,  but  at 
other  times  they  are  the  most  idealistic  things  you  ever  saw,  and  at 
other  times  they  are  perfectly  wild  and  harebrained ;  but  nevertheless 
they  are  issued  and  plastered  up  on  the  walls  of  the  town. 

Senator  Nelson.  Is  it  not  a  fact  that  the  only  cohesive  principle 
there  is  in  theii'  government  at  present  is  the  reign  of  terror  they 
carry  on? 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  should  say  that  in  the  beginning  its  power  was  de- 
rived from  machine  guns. 


Senator  Overman.  Are  they  manufacturing  munitions? 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  know  of  only  one  plant  that  ran  for  a  short  time, 
but  they  had  enough  out  of  the  supplies  of  old  Russia  to  keep  them 
going  for  their  military  operations.  Of  course,  with  this  new  army 
which  they  are  getting  I  do  not  know  what  they  will  do.  They  had 
called  five  years  to  the  colors  when  I  left,  and  they  were  very  much 
afraid  of  that  army.  They  did  not  know  what  to  do  with  it,  whether 
to  arm  it  or  not  to  arm  it.  Of  course,  they  keep  the  army  up  now, 
because  if  a  factory  closes  down  and  the  workmen  are  thrown  out  oi 
a  job  and  have  nothing  to  do,  they  put  them  in  the  army  and  pay 
them  a  certain  amount  each  month.  It  was  400  rubles  when  I  was  in 
Xijni  Novgorod.  I  think  it  is  higher  now.  They  supported  the  men 
and  their  families.  That  is  the  kind  of  coercion  that  keeps  the  red 
army  together. 

Senator  Overman.  Have  the  Bolsheviki  got  woman  suffrage?  Do 
the  women  take  part  in  these  meetings? 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  never  saw  very  many  of  them  in  these  meetings, 
but  they  have  it  on  paper ;  yes,  sir. 

Maj.  Humes.  The  money  they  pay  to  the  soldiers  simply  comes 
from  the  printing  press.  They  make  money  on  the  printing  press 
as  they  need  it  to  pay  these  soldiers,  do  they  not? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes,  sir.  I  had  at  one  time  the  figures,  put  out  by  the 
head  man  of  the  government,  of  the  deficit  on  the  railroad — ^the  esti- 
mated deficit — amounting  to  I  forget  how  many  hundred  millions  of 
rubles,  and  the  amount  of  tlie  factory  and  industry  deficit,  and  so  on. 

On  the  Volga  River  all  the  traffic  had  stopped  and  there  were  at 
least  200  boats,  some  of  them  passenger  boats,  the  finest  I  ever  saw  on 
any  river,  standing  idle,  and  the  workmen  with  their  families  were 
living  on  them  and  being  paid  by  the  government  from  time  to  time 
as  they  could  get  the  money  down  to  them. 

Senator  O^'eksian.  The  commerce  on  the  river  then,  had  practi- 
cally ceased? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Virtually  so.  It  was  down  at  the  lowest  ebb,  on  ac- 
count of  the  absence  of  coal  or  oil.  The  thing  was  petering  out  be- 
cause of  no  fuel. 

Senator  Nelson.  In  normal  times  there  was  an  immense  water 
commerce  on  the  Volga? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes;  it  is  a  great  center,  with  vessels  of  all  kinds 
there.  The  flour  mills  there  were  closed,  and  all  the  factories  were 
closed  except  one  when  I  left. 

Senator  Overman.  Was  there  any  schedule  on  the  railroads  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  It  is  an  amazing  thing  that  the  railroad  organization 
has  kept  going.  The  railroad  guild,  perhaps  you  might  call  it,  has 
kept  going  against  tremendous  odds,  and  they  have  maintained  a 
passenger  service.     The  freight  service  is  badly  disorganized. 

In  all  Russia,  in  about  10  months  while  I  was  there,  I  never  but 
once  in  any  state  anywhere  in  Russia  saw  carpenters  or  masons 
working.  Never  but  once  did  I  see  men  with  hammers  and  nails  and 
feaws  in  their  hands. 

Senator  Nelson.  There  was  not  any  building  going  on? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Absolutely  nothing.  The  whole  thing  was  going  to 
destruction.  I  saw  a  band  stand  being  built.  That  was  the  only 
thing  I  ever  saw  in  process  of  construction  in  Russia. 


Senator  Overman.  What  are  the  houses  of  the  peasants  con- 
structed of? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Logs,  where  they  can  get  them.  They  are  fine  log 

Senator  IS'elson.  With  thatched  roofs? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Sometimes ;  but  log  houses,  well  built. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Were  the  schools  in  operation? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Not  during  the  summer,  and  there  was  much  dis- 
cussion in  Nijni  Novgorod  as  to  whether  they  would  open  this  fall 
or  not,  on  account  of  financial  difficulties. 

ijenator  Overman.  Were  the  farms  in  operation,  or  had  many  of 
them  left  the  farms? 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  read  an  article  not  long  ago  in  some  American 
magazine,  by  an  American  Avhom  I  knew  over  there,  in  which  he 
said  that  the  acreage  this  year  was  about  10  per  cent.  That,  to  my 
mind,  is  not  anywhere  near  the  fact  in  the  case.  In  the  districts 
which  I  loiew  from  my  personal  knowledge  and  from  information 
which  I  got  in  Nijni  Novgorod  and  from  information  which  we  got 
from  people  from  the  other  sections  who  came  into  the  consulate  in 
Moscow,  75  would  be  very  much  nearer  the  truth. 

Senator  Nelson.  Seventy-five  per  cent? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes.  Others  even  put  it  higher  than  that.  But  in  my 
opinion,  the  crops  were  very  good.  I  am  not  a  prophet,  but  if  they 
had  the  brains  for  organization  and  could  get  their  traffic  organized 
so  that  they  could  distribute  it,  I  believe  there  ig  enough  stuff  in 
soviet  Russia  to  feed  the  Russians;  not  well,  but  to  keep  them  from 

Senator  Nelson.  What  is  their  wheat?  Is  it  spring  wheat  or  win- 
ter wheat? 

■  Mr.  Dennis.  Both,  I  believe.  We  could  go  from  Nidjni  Novgorod 
down  the  Volga  River  and  up  jthe  Kama  River  to  Perm,  and  buy 
white  flour  pretty  reasonably.  A  friend  of  mine  went,  and  got  flour 
for  12  rubles  a  pood,  or  36  English  pounds. 

Senator  Overman.  Are  these  peasants  most  hospitable  in  their 
nature  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  As  individuals;  yes,  sir,  they  are.  You  could  buy 
flour  for  10  rubles  a  pood,  but  they  would  not  allow  you  to  take  it 
out  of  the  city,  or  into  a  different  State.  You  could  not  take  it 
across  the  line.  My  man  got  back  because  he  Avas  working  for  an 
American,  and  mj'  English  friend  got  back  because  he  had  a  British 
passport,  but  a  man  who  lived  within  two  blocks  of  me  in  Nijni 
Novgorod  had  the  flour  taken  away  from  him. 

Maj.  Humes.  He  was  a  Russian? 

Mr.  Dennis.  He  was  a  Russian.  It  was  possible  for  a  German  to 
go  there  and  buy  flour  by  the  thousand  poods  and  take  it  out 
without  any  difficulty.  He  got  it  out  of  that  State,  but  it  did  not 
go  into  Germany.  There  was  great  ojDposition  on  the  part  of  the 
people  to  Germany  getting  stuff  out  of  Russia,  and  trains  of  cars 
had  a  wav  of  being  sidetracked  and  turning  up  somewhere  else. 

Senator  Overman.  I  should  think  that  after  this  war  and  so  many 
people  being  killed,  they  would  have  a  great  antipathy  to  the  Ger- 


Mr.  Dennis.  I  think  the  sentiment  of  the  bourgeois  class  could 
be  summed  up  by  what  a  man  whom  I  knew  pretty  well  said  to  me. 
He  said :  "  I  know  it  is  a  mistake  for  us  to  want  the  Germans  to 
come  in  here.  I  know  in  the  end  we  will  regret  it,  and  we  would 
much  rather  have  somebody  else  come,  but  nobody  else  will  come, 
and  it  is  '  any  port  in  a  storm.'  If  the  Germans  come,  my  life  and  my 
property  will  be  safe."  I  do  not  blame  them  at  all  for  feeling  that 
way  about  it. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Is  there  any  breakdown  of  the  moral  standards 
in  this  Bolshevik  regime? 

Mr.  Dknxis.  There  has  been  a  lot  of  talk  about  it,  and  about  these 
proclamations  which  have  appeared  in  American  newspapers,  and 
those  proclamations  in  two  cases  I  loiow  of  were  actually  put  up; 
but  whether  they  were  put  up  by  the  government  or  not  is  a  very 
large  question  in  my  mind. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Did  they  purport  to  be  official  proclamations? 

Mr.  Dennis.  They  were  put  up  in  the  city  of  Samara,  signed  by 
the  anarchists,  and  about  two  days  later,  as  quick  as  they  could  get 
out  an  answer  to  it,  the  anarchists  came  out  with  another  proclama- 
tion which  they  pasted  up  over  the  town,  saying  that  the  first  one 
had  not  been  sent  out  by  them,  but  had  been  sent  out  by  the  enemies 
of  the  anarchists  to  discredit  that  group.  I  am  inclined  to  believe 
that  story.    It  was  about  the  nationalization  of  women. 

Senator  Nelson.  The}^  are  opposed  to  religion,  are  they  not? 

Mr.  Dennis.  The  Bolsheviks? 

Senator  Nelson.  Yes. 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Nelson.  And  they  advocate  a  sort  of  what  in  this  country 
we  call  "  free  love,"  do  they  not  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  have  never  seen  any  official  statement  of  that  kind. 
They  are  opposed  to  religion,  and  were  very  much  opposed  to  the 
Y.  M.  C.  A.,  here  and  there. 

Senator  Nelson.  What  was  their  grievance  against  the  Y.  M.  C.  A.  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  A  tool  of  capitalism. 

Senator  Overman.  How  did  they  feel  toward  the  Red  Cross? 

Mr.  Dennis.  All  right,  so  far  as  I  know. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Was  the  Salvation  Army  in  Russia? 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  never  saw  it — yes,  I  did.    I  saw  two  of  them. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Did  you  ever  notice  any  outcry  against  the 
Salvation  Army  people? 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  know  nothing  about  that.  The  two  that  I  saw  were 
taking  care  of  an  orphan  asylum  where  there  Avere  a  lot  of  little  chil- 
dren. I  imagine  they  were  very  glad  to  have  them  do  it.  The  organi- 
zation, or  lack  of  organization,  was  so  very  bad  in  Petrograd  that 
during  the  last  week  in  April,  when  they  dumped  into  Petrograd 
the  first  1,500  prisoners  who  came  back  from  Germany — Russians 
released  from  the  German  prisons;  they  dumped  these  men  into 
the  great  station  in  Petrograd,  all  of  them  sick,  and  very  few  of 
them  able  to  walk,  and  there  was  no  organization  in  that  great  city 
to  look  after  those  men — that  was  the  most  terrible  thing  that  I  saw 
in  Russia. 

Senator  Nelson.  They  looked  starved  and  emaciated? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Terrible.     You  could  not  overpaint  that  picture. 


Senator  Nelson.  And  were  terribly  broken? 

Mr.  Dennis.  You  could  not  overpaint  the  picture  of  those  men. 
The  few  who  were  able  to  go  out  came  down  the  Nevski  Prospect. 
Petrograd  is  a  pretty  blase  city  by  this  time,  it  has  been  through 
•a  good  deal,  and  it  takes  something  to  stir  them  up,  but  these  men 
in  knots  of  two  and  three  would  stand  on  the  street  there  and  beg, 
and  they  poured  money  into  their  caps — the  people  on  the  streets — 
but  there  was  no  organization  to  take  care  of  them  at  all.  If  there 
^ver  was  anybody  who  needed  a  Red  Cross  outfit,  and  needed  an 
efficient  one,  with  nurses,  it  was  that  crowd  of  1,500  men.  After 
that  the  American  Y.  M.  C.  A.  tried  to  do  something.  I  think 
-certain  Eussian  representatives  wanted  tlie  Americans  to  be  allowed 
to  endeavor  to  go  on  and  accomplish  something ;  but  what  they  have 
clone  I  do  not  know. 

Senator  Oveesiax.  How  is  the  ordinary  peasant  as  a  family  man? 
Does  he  love  his  family  and  love  his  children  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  So  far  as  I  know,  yes,  sir;  and  I  wish  to  say  that  in 
general  I  liked  them  very  much.  I  do  not  know  of  any  foreigner 
who  has  lived  in  Russia  for  any  length  of  time  who  does  not  love  the 
Russian  people  and  their  qualities.  They  are  what  we  call,  out  in  the 
•country  that  I  come  from,  home  folks,  neighborly;  but,  of  course, 
under  these  conditions,  naturally,  with  a  mob  spirit  turned  loose 
in  a  crowd,  they  are  a  very  different  people.  I  presume  that  is  true 
of  any  primitive  people.  Besides,  up  until  August  3,  when  they 
arrested  all  foreigners  with  the  exception  of  Americans,  up  to  that 
time,  outside  of  tfulking  with  men  who  had  lived  in  America,  I 
never  received  anything  but  reasonably  courteous  treatment,  and 
mostly  absolutely  courteous  treatment — warm,  courteous  treatment — 
from  any  Russian  to  whom  I  said  merely,  "  I  am  an  American."  I 
did  not  have  to  tell  him  what  my  business  was  or  anything  about  it. 

Senatoi'  Oveeman.  They  did  not  seem  to  have  any  feeling,  much, 
against  the  Americans? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Every  Russian  peasant,  even  though  he  does  not 
know  what  America  is  or  where  it  is,  perhaps,  has  a  warm  asso- 
ciation of  feeling  about  America — that  it  is  a  free  country. 

Senator  Wolcott.  How  many  of  these  people  who  had  come  from 
America  and  were  in  office  under  the  Bolshevik  government  would 
you  estimate  that  you  saw,  speaking  in  proportion  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  That  I  personally  saw  and  talked  with  ? 

Senator  Wolcott.  Or  that  you  know  of,  either  by  your  own 
observation  or  from  those  in  whom  you  have  confidence? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Our  general  opinion  in  Moscow  was  that  anywhere 
irom  20  to  25  per  cent  of  the  commissars  in  Soviet  Russia  had  lived 
in  America. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Did  you  form  any  estimate  as  to  the  number  in 
office  in  Petrograd  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  No. 

Senator  Wolcott.  They  were  not  all  from  New  York  City,  I  take 
it  from  what  you  said  a  while  ago,  but  they  were  from  different 
parts  of  the  United  States— congested  centers? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Always  from  industrial  centers. 

Senator  Overman.  Do  you  know  any  of  them  that  have  been  natu- 
ralized in  this  country? 


Mr.  Dennis.  Xo.  At  least,  not  one  of  them  would  say  he  had  been. 
I  asked  two,  I  recall,  and  they  said  they  had  not.  One  had  lived  here 
13  years,  according  to  his  story,  and  tallied  English  very  well. 

Senator  Xelson.  Did  you  find  them  to  be  from  Chicago,  usually? 

Mr.  Denxis.  I  found  them  to  be  from  industrial  centers  near  Chi- 
cago. One  man  when  I  bade  liim  good-by  said,  "  Good-by.  I  will  see 
you  in  about  10  years.  We  are  coming  over  to  America  to  pull  off 
this  same  show."    I  told  him  I  would  be  there. 

Senator  Wolcott.  These  men  who  were  from  America  who  were 
in  oiEce  there  were  of  what  nationahty  ? 

Mr.  Dexnis.  I  beg  pardon^ 

Senator  "Wolcott.  Ihese  men  who  had  been  in  America,  and  were 
in  office  over  there,  were  of  what  nationality  ? 

'Sir.  De-\nis.  With  ,only  one  exception,  of  my  personal  knowledge, 

Senator  AVolcott.  "\Miat  nationality  was  that  one  exception? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Russian. 

Senator  Wolcott.  You  said  a  while  ago  that  you  were  convinced 
in  your  own  mind  that  there  is  organized  propaganda  in  this  country 
to  spread  this  Bolsheviki  thing  to  America.  In  substantiation  of 
that  statement  you  cited  this  Chicago  meeting  Avliere  you  lieard  the 
doctrine  preached  and  well  received.  Have  you  any  other  substantiul 
facts  that  point  to  the  theory  that  there  is  an  organized  propaganda 
here,  financed  here,  to  spread  this  soviet  government  to  America  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Xothing  that  I  thinlv  is  not  already  in  the  hands  of 
the  Government ;  nothing  new. 

Senator  Overman.  Have  you  made  any  report  to  tire  Department 
of  Justice  or  the  Secretary  of  State? 

Mr.  Dennis.  When  I  returned  to  America  I  came  here  to  AA'ashing- 
ton  and  rejjortod  to  the  consular  staff. 

Senator  Overman.  To  the  State  Department? 

Mr.  Dennis.  To  the  State  Department.  I  was  then  interviewed  by 
a  number  of  men  in  various  departments,  the  Russian  war  board, 
and  one  or  two  others.    Maj.  Miles,  I  believe,  was  one. 

Senator  0^t5rman.  Will  j'ou  send  us  a  copy  of  that  report? 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  made  no  report  at  that  time.  I  have  just  returned 
to  America,  and  came  directly  here  from  Xew  York,  about  Novem- 
ber 1. 

Senator  Overman.  You  made  no  report  about  tliis  organization 
over  here? 

]\Ir.  Dennis. Xo,  sir:  I  knew  noticing  about  it  at  that  time.  Amer- 
ica had  been  a  closed  book  to  me  for  one  year. 

Senator  Wolcott.  You  saj^  the  information  that  this  propaganda 
is  afoot  in  this  country  is  now  in  the  hands  of  the  Government  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes,  sir:  such  information  as  I  have. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Is  the  information  you  refer  to  now  as  being 
in  the  possession  of  the  Government  information  that  you  yourself 
gave  or  discovered? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Only  in  part.  Some  of  it  I  ran  across,  and  some  of 
it  I  got  from  those  who  were  investigating  the  situation. 

Senator  Overman.  Maj.  Humes,  have  you  investigated  that  matter 
with  the  department  ? 

Maj.  Htjmes.  I  have  been  in  touch  with  all  of  the  departments. 


Senator  ^WoLcoTT.  We  will  eventually  get  that  information,  will 

Maj.  Humes.  I  think  so;  yes,  sir. 

Senator  Wolcott.  I  think  we  should  ha-^e  it,  because  that  is  the 
main  thing  we  are  after. 

'Senator  Overman.  That  is  \\  hat  we  are  investigating,  principally — 
the  basis  of  this  investigation.  Speaking  from  your  own  knowledge 
and  from  general  information,  what  do  you  think  is  the  extent  of 
this  propaganda  in  this  country? 

Mr.  Dennis.  AVell,  there  are  undoubtedly  people  who  are  inter- 
ested in  spreading  this  propaganda,  who  have  a  pretty  fair  organi- 
zation that  extends  from  New  York  to  San  Francisco.  They  have 
divided  this  country  up  into  sections  and  put  it  out  under  various 
leaders  to  handle. 

Senator  Overman.  Do  you  know,  fronv  what  you  have  heard, 
whether  it  is  growing? 

Mr.  Dennis.  No;  I  do  not.  I  should  say  the  growth  of  it  would 
depend  in  large  part  upon  the  industrial  conditions  during  the  com- 
ing months — employment  or  unemployment. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Did  you  come  across  Col.  Thompson  in  Eussia  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  He  had  left  before  I  got  there. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Did  you  come  across  Mr.  Eaymond  Kobins  'i 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  met  him  a  couple  of  times  in  Moscoav. 

Senator  Wolcott.  In  what  capacity  was  he  acting  at  the  time 
when  you  met  him  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  The  only  one  that  he  had — as  the  head  of  the  Red 
Cross.  As  far  as  I  know,  that  was  the  only  official  position  he  had 
a,t  any  time. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Did  you  have  any  opportunity  to  observe  his 
relations  with  the  Bolsheviki? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Very  little.  I  talked  with  him  at  length  one  day 
concerning  the  Bolsheviki  there,  because  he  had  been  in  Moscow 
longer  than  I  had.  I  got  there  after  the  revolution.  I  missed  that, 
and  I  A\-anted  to  know  more  about  it. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Was  his  attitude  one  of  sympathy  with  it  or 

Mr.  Dennis.  As  I  understood  him  at  that  time,  his  attitude  was 
that  of — well,  sympathy  is  not  exactly  the  word — recognition  of 
them,  because  they  were  the  people  who  were  in, control;  not  because 
of  what  they  stood  for  or  their  methods,  but  because  they  were  the 
people  in  control.  I  remember  specifically  that  he  used  the  phrase, 
"  They  are  the  people  Avith  the  guts." 

Senator  Nelson.  And  they  ought  to  be  recognized,  because  they 
were  in  control.     Was  that  his  theory? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes ;  they  were  the  only  people  who  seemed  to  have  an 
organization  and  the  ability  to  run  the  show. 

Senator  Nelson.  And,  therefore,  he  was  for  them? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Therefore,  as  I  understood  it,  he  was  in  favor  of 
dealing  with  them  as  representing  Eussia.  He  knew  them  all  and 
was  on  speaking  terms  with  them  and  kept  in  touch  with  them — the 
leaders  of  the  movement.    He  was  in  Moscow  at  that  time. 

Senator  Overman.  Did  you  know  Trotsky? 


Mr.  Denxis.  'No,  sir;  I  never  met  him  personally.  I  beard  him 
talk  once. 

Senator  Otermax.  Where  did  you  hear  him  talk,  at  Petrograd  or 
Moscow  ? 

Mr.  Dexxis.  Moscow.  As  I  judge  the  situation,  Trotzky  was  the 
firebi'and  of  this  group,  taking  the  three  of  them,  Lenine,  Tchitcherin, 
and  Trotslfy. 

Senator  Nelson.  Who  was  the  firebrand? 

Mr.  Denxis.  Trotsky.    He  is  a  highly  emotional  chap. 

Senator  Overman.  Does  he  make  a  good  speech? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes;  he  makes  a  very  fine,  fiery  speech,  and  he  is  a 
chap  who  believes,  as  we  understood  the  situation,  in  carrying  this 
thing  through  according  to  plan  with  absolute  implacability  toward 
the  bourgeoise  group.  From  what  I  iinow  of  the  situation,  this  story 
that  appeared  in  the  American  newspaper  a  while  ago,  that  there  had 
been  a  break  between  Trotsky  and  Lenine,  sounded  quite  reasonable, 
because  it  was  Trotsky  who,  when  they  arrested  all  the  English, 
French,  and  other  allies,  Americans  excepted,  wanted  to  hold  them 
as  hostages. 

Senator  Nelson.  Did  he  want  the  Americans  arrested,  too  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  never  knew.  I  never  could  find  out  why  they  were 
not  arrested. 

Senator  Nelson.  Were  the  Americans  arrested  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Individuals  were  in  outlying  cities,  like  Mr.  Eoger 
Simmons,  at  Vologda,  Mr.  Leonard  and  Mr.  Berry,  at  Tsaritzin,  and 
there  may  have  been  others. 

Senator  Overman.  When  did  you  leave? 

Mr.  Dennis.  On  September  2. 

Senator  Overman.  Why  did  you  leave? 

]Mr.  Dennis.  It  was  getting  a  bit  warm.  All  the  allied  powers  had 
withdrawn  from  Russia,  and  there  was  no  place  to  go. 

Senator  Nelson.  Which  way  did  j'ou  come  out? 

Mr.  Dexxis.  I  was  with  Dr.  Huntington,  who  testified  here,  I 
believe.     We  were  all  on  the  same  train. 

Senator  Wolcott.  You  all  came  together? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Nelson.  Did  you  have  to  go  around  by  Sweden? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes,  sir.  We  wanted  to  go  to  Archangel,  but  you 
could  not  get  across  the  Volga.  There  were  some  tentative  advances 
made  to  the  German  Government  to  issue  us  a  safe  conduct  across  the 
Baltic  to  Stockholm. 

Senator  Nelson.  The  Germans  were  in  possession  of  Finland  at 
that  time? 

Mr.  Denxis.  Yes.  We  asked  them  to  guarantee  us  a  safe  conduct, 
and  we  waited  for  some  time,  and  finally  the  Diet  of  Finland  guar- 
anteed us  a  safe  conduct  through  Finland. 

Dr.  Huntington  must  have  told  you  of  our  experience  in  Petro- 
grad; how  they  nearly  refused  to  let  us  go,  and  refused  to  respect 
the  orders  of  Tchitcherin,  Lenine,  and  Trotsky. 

Senator  Overman.  That  man  Tchitcherin  is  a  Russian,  I  suppose? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Overman.  Where  is  he  from? 


Mr.  De]^nis.  He  is  a  man  of  some  rank ;  a  nobleman  by  birth,  I  have 
forgotten  what;  a  well-educated  man,  and  a  man  of  wealth  at  one 
time ;  a  very  able  gentleman. 

Senator  ISTelson.  The  last  legation  to  get  out  of  there  was  the 
Norwegian  Legation,  and  I  was  reading  an  account  last  night  in  the 
newspaper  of  how  long  it  took  them  to  get  out  of  Petrograd  over  to 
Finland.  They  were  held  up  time  and  again  on  the  journey.  Evi- 
dently they  wanted  to  bleed  them  and  get  money  from  them. 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  do  not  know  how  successful  they  were  with  them. 
We  were  bled. 

Senator  Nelson.  They  were  not  bled,  but  they  were  delayed. 

Mr.  Dennis.  We  paid  and  got  out. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Did  you  ever  come  across  Dr.  Harold  Williams 
over  there? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Dr.  Harold  Williams  ?  No,  sir.  The  only  Williams  I 
knew  was  not  a  doctor,  but  was  a  banker  from  Waterloo,  Iowa ;  the 
only  man  by  the  name  of  Williams  I  ever  met  in  Eussia. 

Senator  Nelson.  Were  there  many  Americans  in  business  over  in 
Eussia  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  heard  much  of  other  nationalities.  I  should  think 
there  were  a  few.  The  Germans  were  in  business  very  largely,  but 
there  were  very  few  Americans  in  Eussia. 

Senator  Nelson.  Did  you  notice  the  agricultural  implements  that 
they  had  on  the  farms  there?  Were  they  American  implements  or 
were  they  German  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  do  not  know,  except  that  the  International  Har- 
vester Company  has  been  in  Eussia  for  a  long  time,  and  has  a  great 

plant  and  has  a  big  business  there.    Mr. over  here  can  tell  you 

more  about  that  company's  establishment  than  I  can. 

Senator  Overman.  Did  they  shut  up  their  shop  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  It  Mas  running  when  Mr.  left.     He  can  tell 

you  more  about  what  happened  than  I  can,  because  it  was  his  busi- 
ness to  run  that  factory. 

Senator  Overman.  Maj.  Humes,  have  you  any  more  questions? 

Maj.  Humes.  You  have  spoken  about  the  terrorism  toward  the 
bourgeoisie.  Was  that  terrorism  confined  to  the  bourgeoisie,  the  so- 
called  upper  classes,  or  was  it  directed  against  some  groups  of  the 
proletariat  as  well? 

Mr.  Dennis.  It  was  at  tijnes  directed  against  the  proletariat  when 
they  did  not  follow  orders,  when  they  went  out  to  take  food  at  fixed 
prices.  There  have  been  some  very  good  sized  fights  between  the 
peasants  and  the  red  guard  over  that  food  question,  because  the 
peasant  was  not  to  pay  taxes;  and  personally  I  am  quite  convinced 
that  when  the  peasant  got  land,  the  man  who  actually  got  the  land 
was  through  with  the  revolution  right  then  and  there,  and  if  they 
had  let  him  alone  he  would  have  been  all  right.  But  what  can  he 
buy?  What  can  he  do  with  his  money  when  he  does  get  money? 
And  they  come  out  and  take  the  food  supplies  away  from  him  at 
fixed  prices  away  below  the  market  price.  He  is  very  bitter  against 
it.  I  have  had  a  number  of  them  tell  me  themselves  what  they  thought 
about  it,  and  that  the  old  days  were  better. 

Senator  Overman.  This  red  fiag,  is  that  on  their  public  buildings, 
and  on  the  streets,  everywhere? 


Mr.  Dennis.  Oh,  yes. 

Senator  OvER:^rAX.  Just  a  pure  red  flag;  nothing  on  it? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Sometimes  it  had  mottoes  on  it,  but  they  varied.  I 
do  not  know  this,  I  do  not  laiow  that  anybody  does,  but  I  felt  quite 
sure  that  if  the  Eusisan  people,  supposing  that  the  peasants  are  80 
to  85  per  cent  of  the  population,  were  let  alone  to  organize  their 
form  of  government,  it  would  be  an  advanced  socialistic  govern- 
ment, because  of  the  fact  that  95  per  cent  of  them  have  lived  all 
their  lives  in  this  conununistic  form  of  government.  But  they  would 
do  it  by  peaceful  means.  It  is  the  object  of  the  Mensheviki,  as  of 
the  Bolsheviki,  to  establish  a  socialistic  form  of  goverimient,  but 
the  one  wants  to  do  it  by  the  most  drastic  revolutionary  methods, 
and  the  other  by  evolution.  Of  course,  in  industry,  the  fact  that 
all  industry  has  gene  to  pot  is  due  to  a  number  of  causes;  lack  of 
ability  to  get  raw  materials,  first,  and  secondly,  lack  of  trained  brains. 

Senator  Nelson.  And  a  disinclination  of  the  men  to  work,  too? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes.  The  Russian  people  very  much  love  to  talk, 
and  this  gives  them  a  free  opportunity. 

Senator  Nelson.  Then  the  system  will  break  down  from  three 
causes,  lack  of  raw  materials,  lack  of  competent  men  to  run  it,  and 
disinclination  of  workingmen  to  take  hold  and  work? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes;  and  lack  of  ability  of  the  right  juan,  when  they 
find  him,  to  give  orders  to  anybody  and  be  sure  that  they  will  be 
obeyed.  I  have  known  a  c:isp  where  the  trained  men  have  gone  back, 
nt  the  request  of  the  government,  and  endeavored  to  do  this  and 
that  on  the  railroads  and  in  the  factories,  and  they  would  put  in  a 
certnin  reform  and  want  to  change  a  certain  thing.  It  did  not  please 
the  workman.  All  right,  that  settled  it.  The  government  has  not 
the  authoritj'  to  go  down  there  and  do  it,  unless  it  is  with  the  machine 
gun.    Every  man  is  a  law  unto  himself,  in  this  dispensation. 

Maj.  Humes.  Under  the  constitution,  all  agricultural  implements 
become  the  property  of  the  state.  What  has  been  done  in  carrying 
that  provision  into  effect? 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  du  not  kn(  w,  hut  I  would  say  nothing  had  been  done. 
There  is  an  amazing  number  of  things  on  pa]oer  that  ha'^c  never  leen 
canied  into  effect,  l)ocause  they  have  no  authority  or  organization. 
Russia  is  more  like  a  kaleidoscope  than  anything  else.  It  switches  all 
the  time,  and  it  is  a  wise  man  who  can  plot  the  thing,  and  make  a 
blue  print  of  it. 

Maj.  Humes.  You  say  that  the  Russian  people  like  to  talk? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes. 

Maj.  Humes.  Does  the  soviet  government  permit,  either  in  the 
public  press  or  in  public  meetings,  free  expression  of  sentiments 
other  than  in  support  of  their  own  activities  and  government  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  At  the  present  time  there  is  no  public  press  except 
the  soviet  press.  There  are  only  Bolshevist  newspapers  at  the  present 

Maj.  Humes.  And  they  will  not  allow  the  publication  of  anything 
else  but  Bolshevik  newspapers  ? 

]\Ir.  Dennis.  No,  sir.    There  is  nothing  else. 

Senator  Nelson.  They  do  not  know  anything  about  freedom  of 
the  press,  then  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Oh,  no ;  oh,  no. 

Senator  Nelson.  Or  free  soeech? 


Mr.  Dennis.  I  can  not  imagine  that  any  discerning- 

Senator  Nelson.  Or  anything  but  Bolshevik  speech  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  can  not  imagine  that  any  Russian  would  attempt 
to  speak  in  public  attacking  the  Bolsheviki.  His  shrift  would  lae 
very  short. 

Senator  Nelson.  It  is  strange  that  when  they  come  over  here  they 
advocate  free  speech  and  freedom  of  the  press,  and  complain  against 
our  Government,  and  they  will  not  apply  that  paregoric  over  there. 

Mr.  Dennis.  They  will  undoubtedl3'  have  free  speech  when  all 
their  people  are  one  class,  and  all  are  Bolshevik.     [Laughter.] 

Senator  Nelson.  Yes. 

Senator  Wolcott.  I  have  heard  this  story,  and  I  am  going  to  tell 
it  to  you  and  see  if  you  know  of  any  similar  occurrence,  and  see  if 
you  think  it  ties  in  with  the  general  attitude  of  mind  of  the  Bolshe- 
vik masses  over  there.  At  an  election  I  understand  they  vote  by 
holding  up  a  hand,  and  on  one  occasion  an  election  was  held  and 
the  Eed  Guard  was  on  hand  and  the  people  were  asked,  "All  in  favor 
of  such  and  such  a  thing,  hold  up  their  hands."  Of  course,  most  of 
them  put  up  their  hands.  Then  the  question  was  put,  "All  who  are 
opposed,  put  up  their  hands,"  and  three  or  four  very  unwise  crea- 
tures put  up  their  hands  in  opposition  to  the  Bolshevik  side  of  this 
election,  whereupon  they  were  hauled  out  by  the  Eed  Guard  and  shot. 
It  was,  therefore,  a  unanimous  vote. 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Did  you  ever  hear  of  any  such  occurrence  as 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  have  no  evidence  of  that.  Oh,  that  is  quite  pos- 
sible.   Why  not? 

Senator  Wolcott.  You  think  it  would  not  be  a  surprising  thing  if 
that  is  done  under  this  regime  over  there  ? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Why,  no.  I  know  of  things  which  are  quite  equal  to 
that — ^actually  know  of  them;  but  not  exactly  like  that. 

Maj.  Humes.  What  instances  do  you  know  of,  similar  to  that? 

Mr.  Dennis.  For  example,  they  have  in  Eussia  an  extraordinary 
commission  for  the  suppression  of  the  counter-revolution,  sabotage, 
and — what  else  is  it  ? — speculation,  which  can  do  anything  it  pleases ; 
which  has  absolute  authority.  They  arrest  people,  try  them,  convict 
them,  execute  them,  and  do  not  have  to  say  a  word  to  anybody  about 
that.  You  take  a  country  overturned  like  that,  and  turn  loose  a  lot 
of  men,  some  of  them  honest,  some  of  them  dishonest,  some  of  them 
able  to  see  things  clearly,  and  others  fanatics  of  the  wildest  type,  and 
put  them  in  there  with  that  power,  and  what  will  happen?  It  is 
bound  to  happen.  • 

Mr.  Leonard,  who  is  here,  will  tell  you  mterestmg  things  about  that 
extraordinary  commission  and  their  doings. 

Senator  Nelson.  You  are  acquainted  with  Mr.  Leonard? 

Mr.  Dennis.  Yes,  sir. 

Mai.  Humes.  Mr.  Leonard  is  here  to-day. 

Mr.  Dennis.  I  just  happened  to  hear  his  voice  over  here,  so  that 
I  knew  that  he  was  here.  -^     ,t.. 

Senator   Overman.  Is    there    anything    else,    Ma]or,    with    this 

witnGSs  E 

Maj.  Humes.  I  believe  not.    We  are  very  much  obliged  to  you,  sir. 

85723—19 13 



(The  witness  was  sworn  by  the  chairman.) 

Senator  Otekmax.  Where  are  you  from? 

Mr.  Leonard.  St.  Paul,  Minn. 

Senator  Overman.  How  long  is  it  since  you  returned  from  Eussia? 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  left  Petrograd  on  the  16th  of  November,  and 
returned  here  on  the  3d  of  December. 

Senator  Overman.  You  came  out  with  this  colony? 

jNIr.  Leonard.  No,  sir. 

Senator  Overman.  What  were  you  doing  in  Eussia? 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  went  over  there  with  the  Y.  M.  C.  A.  to  work 
with  the  soldiers  in  the  field,  and  then  was  with  the  Eussian  soldiers 
at  the  front,  and  then  acted  as  vice  consul. 

Senator  Overman.  You  worked  on  the  front  with  the  soldiers, 
did  you  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir ;  for  quite  a  time  after  the  revolution,  from 
August  until  November,  1917. 

Senator  Overman.  Did  you  observe  in  their  army  this  Bolshevik 
propaganda  going  around  among  the  soldiers? 

Mr.  Leonard.  One  could  not  help  noticing  it.  The  soldiers  were 
selling  all  their  things  to  the  Germans.  They  were  selling  machine 
guns  for  5  rubles.  They  would  sell  a  6-inch  gun  for  a  bottle  of 
brandy,  and  then  start  for  home. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Were  they  selling  any  American-made  ammuni- 
tion to  the  Germans? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes. 

Senator  Wolcott.  And  American-made  guns? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes;  and  you  would  see  a  lot  of  Winchester  am- 
munition over  there — U.  M.  C. 

Senator  Wolcott.  That  is,  munitions  and  guns  that  we,  in  America, 
had  made  and  sent  to  Eussia  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  It  was  practical}}'  all,  though,  munitions  that  had 
been  bought  before  we  entered  the  war.  That  is,  it  was  bought  on 
contracts  between  American  manufacturers  and  the  Eussian  Govern- 
ment, and  was  not  furnished  by  our  Government. 

Senator  Wolcott.  It  was  their  property? 

Mr.  Leonard.  It  was  their  property. 

Senator  Wolcott.  And  not  the  property  of  the  American  Govern- 

Mr.  Leonard.  No. 

Senator  Overman.  Did  you  have  any  speakers  or  preachers  there? 

Mr.  Leonard.  We  had  them  at  the  Kiev  front.  They  sent  400 
men  through  the  lines  who  could  speak  the  Eussian  language,  and 
who  were  to  conduct  propaganda.  Most  of  the  propaganda  came 
from  behind  the  lines,  though.  There  were,  of  course,  many  who 
were  fraternizing  on  the  front,  but  the  most  deadly  propaganda  was 
that  carried  on  behind  the  lines. 

Senator  Nelson.  Among  the  soldiers  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Among  the  soldiers ;  yes,  sir. 

Senator  Nelson.  Who  were  the  men  who  were  carrying  that  on? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Members  of  the  Bolshevik  party. 

Senator  Nelson.  Were  there  any  men  who  had  been  in  this  coun- 


Mr.  Leonard.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelsox.  Do  you  knoAv  many  of  them? 

Mr._  Leonard.  No,  sir ;  I  did  not. 

Maj.  Humes.  Do  you  know  who  they  are,  so  that  you  can  hand 
the  committee  the  names  of  any  of  them  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  No,  sir;  I  would  not  know  that;  and  when  I  say 
that,  it  is  not  of  my  personal  knowledge.  I  talked  with  some  soldiers 
who  told  me  that  some  of  these  agents  had  been  in  New  York  for 
a  year  or  two. 

Senator  Nemon.  Where  were  you  when  the  Kerensky  government 
came  into  being? 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  was  out  in  Siberia  at  that  time. 

Senator  Nelson.  You  were  in  Siberia? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  When  did  you  go  into  Bussia? 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  went  into  Eussia  in  August  of  1917. 

Senator  Nelson.  That  was  shortly  before  the  Bolshevik  govern- 
ment of  Trotzky  and  Lenine  came  in? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  They  came  in  in  November? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  Where  were  you  stationed  then? 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  was  down  with  some  of  the  troops  not  far  from 

Senator  Nei^son.  Near  Kiev? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  Were  Russian  troops  engaged  in  fighting  the 
Germans  at  that  time? 

Mr.  Leonard.  No,  sir.  They  had  practically  laid  down.  A  very, 
very  small  detachment  had  remained  on  the  front,  but  there  was  no 

Senator  Nelson.  The  soldiers  had  quit  fighting? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Nelson.  They  had  organized  themselves  to  control  the  ap- 
pointment of  officers  and  run  the  whole  thing?     Is  not  that  so? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  And  refused  to  fight? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  And  was  not  that  one  of  the  main  causes  that 
led  to  the  fall  of  the  Kerensky  government  and  the  advance  of  the 
Lenine-Trotzky  government? 

Mr.  Leonard.  The  Russians  now  state  that  one  of  the  causes  of 
the  fall  of  the  Kerensky  government  was  that  advance  that  they  at- 
tempted in  June. 

Senator  Nelson.  They  made  a  successful  advance  at  first? 

Mr.  Leonard.  For  about  a  day. 

Senator  Nelson.  Yes. 

Mr.  Leonard.  But  that  advance  was  made  by  a  very  few.  The 
onlv  forces  that  charged  were  made  up  of  volunteer  officers  who  took 
rifles  and  then  the  Czecho-Slovak  troops.  The  others  refused  to  ad- 
vance with  them.  In  many  cases  they  retreated,  so  that  the  officers 
who  advanced,  and  the  Czecho-Slovaks,  were  very  badly  cut  up. 


Senator  Nelson.  Where  were  you  when  the  acute  portion  of  the 
revolution  broke  out,  in  November? 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  was  down  near  Kiev,  18  hours  from  Kiev,  with 
some  troops. 

Senator  Nelson.  What  general  violence  or  anarchy  took  place 
there  that  you  observed? 

Mr.  Leonard.  None  took  place  right  there.  These  troops  were 
half-way  loyal,  and  so  they  remained  quiet;  but  in  Kiev  there  were 
two  distinct  fights,  one  occurring  some  time  in  November,  and  the 
other,  I  think,  was  in  Februar3^ 

Senator  Nelson.  Yes.  Kiev  is  in  the  Ukraine  country — the 
capital  ? 

]Mr.  Leonard.  The  capital  of  the  Ukraine,  on  the  Dneiper  River. 

Senator  Nelson.  Who  were  in  possession  of  Kiev  at  that  time, 
the  Russian  forces? 

Mr.  Leonard.  The  Russian  forces  were  in  possession ;  and  then  the 
first  fight  was  when  the  Bolsheviki  took  the  power,  and  the  later 
fights  were  between — there  were  all  sorts  of  fights,  the  LTkrainian 
parties  wanting  the  independence  of  the  Ukraine  and  the  Bolsheviki 
opposing,  and  it  was  a  very  complicated  situation. 

Senator  Nelson.  Did  not  the  Bolsheviki  stir  up  and  help  to 
organize  the  so-called  Ukrainian  Republic? 

Mr.  Leonard.  No,  sir :  I  think  the  first  Ukrainian  party  was  a  party 
■■iesiring  the  independence  of  the  Ukraine,  and  was  more  of  the 
"bourgeois  class. 

Senator  Nelson.  Oh,  yes. 

Mr.  Leonard.  The  Ukrainian  movement  had  been  fostered  for  the 
last  10  or  15  years  in  the  Austrian  part  of  the  Ukraine,  in  Galicia, 
and  after  the  government  was  crushed,  the  Bolsheviki  sent  their 
agents  in  there,  and  there  is  a  very  strong  Bolsheviki  party  in  the 

Senator  Nelson.  And  you  recollect  that  at  the  time  the  treaty  of 
Brest-Litovsk  was  formed  that  the  Ukraine  had  representatives  there, 
and  by  the  permission  of  Trotsky  they  were  permitted  to  sign  that 
treaty  ? 

]\[r.  Leonard.  Ye3,  sir.  As  I  understand  it,  the  Bolsheviki  did 
not  desire  their  presence  there,  and  wanted  to  carry  out  the  whole 
thing  themselves.  However,  the  Ukrainians  sent  their  delegation  and 
forced — I  do  not  know  in  what  way,  but  they  forced — their  recogni- 
tion there. 

Senator  Nelson.  Where  were  you  when  the  treaty  of  Brest-Litovsli 
was  entered  into? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Also  down  near  Kiev. 

Senator  Nelson.  You  were  still  there? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  How  long  did  you  remain  at  Kiev  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  beg  your  pardon.  I  left  Kiev  the  1st  of  December, 
and  then 

Senator  Nelson.  Were  the  Russians  then  in  possession  of  Kiev? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Nelson.  The  Bolsheviki? 

Mr.  Leonard.  The  Bolsheviki. 

Senator  Nelson.  The  Bolsheviki  had  gained  possession? 


Mr.  Leonard.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  Was  there  any  bloodshed  or  riot  when  they  took 
possession  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  There  were  two  fights  in  Kiev,  both  of  which  I 
missed;  very  heavy  fighting.  I  think  the  heaviest  street  fighting 
occurred  in  Kiev ;  as  heavy  as  that  which  occurred  in  Moscow. 

Senator  Nelson.  Between  what  parties,  between  the  Reds  and  the 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes ;  between  the  Reds  and  the  Whites. 

Senator  Nelson.    That  is,  the  Bolsheviki  and  the  anti-Bolsheviki  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  And  the  Bolsheviki  were  finally  successful,  wera 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Nelson.  And  got  possession  of  the  town? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  Was  there  very  much  destruction  of  life  and 
property  ?    Will  you  tell  us  what  went  on  there  at  that  time  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  The  city  was  bombarded,  and  of  course  there  was 
great  destruction  of  the  buildings  and  many  people  were  killed.  I 
do  not  think  that  many  were  killed  after  the  second  day.  They  did 
not  have  anything  organized  there,  and  after  they  got  organized 
there  was  no  more  indiscriminate  shooting.  They  would  not  shoot  a. 
man  unless  they  knew  who  he  was. 

Senator  Nelson.  What  did  the  Bolsheviki  do  after  they  got  con- 
trol of  the  city?  Did  they  loot  property — confiscate  property — - 
commandeer  it? 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  think  the  first  thing  they  did  was  to  levy  a  con- 
tribution of  10,000,000  rubles  on  the  city. 

Senator  Nelson.  Oh,  that  was  the  first  thing? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  What  else  did  they  do  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  They  put  in  their  agents  and  took  control  of  the 
mdustries ;  put  their  commissars  m  there. 

Senator  Nelson.  Are  you  acquainted  with  any  of  those  commissars? 

Mr.  Leonard.  No  ;  all  I  have  is  what  I  got  in  just  passing  through 
Kiev  several  times.    It  was  never  my  headquarters. 

Senator  Nelson.  Were  there  any  men  who  had  graduated  in 
America,  over  there? 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  would  not  know  them  in  Kiev.  I  had  no  official 
communication  with  them. 

Senator  Wolcott.  May  I  interrupt  there,  for  a  question  ? 

Senator  Nelson.  Certainly. 

Senator  Wolcott.  I  would  like  to  know  what  is  the  purely  English- 
word  that  is  the  equivalent  of  "  commissar  "? 

Mr.  Leonard.  There  is  none.  It  is  a  term  that  at  first  was  very 
loosely  applied  to  any  man  bearing  a  commission  from  the  Soviet 
o-overnment.  If  you  are  given  any  job  to-day  you  are  called  a  com- 
missar. Now  they  have  tried  to  limit  that  word  to  a  few  people,, 
corresponding  with  these  highest  councils.  That  is,  in  the  govern- 
ment they  would  have  their  council  and  commi^ars — a  few  commis- 
oo^c.      "Rnf  ihat  has  been  without  any  success.     Everybody  who  has. 


Senator  Nelson.  It  practically  means  the  same  as  the  English 
word  "  coinnussioner,"  in  a  general  way  ?  "We  speak  of  such  and 
such  a  man  as  a  commissioner,  and  they  call  him  a  commissar.  That 
is  ifi 

Mr.  Leonaed.  I  guess  so.  They  have  adopted  the  terminology  of 
the  French  revolution,  and  in  some  cases  they  have  followed  it  cor- 
rectly, but  in  other  cases  they  have  not.  For  instance,  any  officer  in 
control  of  a  station  we  would  call  a  station  master;  but  they  would 
have  two  men  there,  a  station  master  who  is  a  railroad  man,  a 
technical  man,  and  then  they  would  have  a  commissar,  a  member  of 
the  committee,  a  member  of  the  Bolshevik  Party,  who  would  be 
there  to  control'  him  and  see  that  he  did  not  do  anything  against 
the  party — to  control  his  actions.  And  so  in  any  little  place  they 
would  have  commissars. 

Senator  Nelson.  How  big  a  town  is  Kiev?  How  manj^  people  has 
it,  about? 

Mv.  Leonabd.  I  do  not  know  exactly.  Its  population  is  over  a 
million,  but  it  has  such  a  large  refugee  population,  varying  from 
tim;^  to  time. 

Senator  Nelson.  Is  it  a  manufacturing  town? 

Mr.  Leonard.  A  manufacturing  town  to  some  extent;  yes,  sir.  It 
is  a  great  commercial  town.    It  is  the  center  of  the  sugar  trade. 

Senator  Nelson.  What  did  the  Bolsheviki  do,  when  they  got  con- 
trol of  the  town,  about  carrying  on  the  industries  or  operating;  or 
what  did  they  do  in  the  way  of  comnuindeering  and  taking  property 
over  ? 

^Ir.  Leonard.  I  do  not  know.  As  I  said,  I  just  passed  through 
Ki^y  several  times.    I  was  always  going  through. 

Senator  Nelson.  "Where  did  you  go  to  from  Kiev  after  that? 

Mr.  Leonakd.  I  vi'ent  to  Moscow,  and  then  in  January  and  Febru- 
ary I  took  a  trip  through  the  southern  and  eastern  part  of  Russia, 
trA'ing  to  find  out  if  there  was  an  army. 

Senator  Nelson.  Did  you  go  clown  the  "V^alley  of  the  Don? 

Mr.  Leonard.  No,  sir.    I  went  down  through  Kazan. 

Senator  Nels'ON.  Dowm  the  "\^olga  liiver? 

]Mr.  Leonard.  Yes.  I  crossed  the  "\"olga  and  then  went  to  Ufa  and 
down  to  Orenberg,  and  then  back. 

Senator  Nelson.  Did  you  go  up  the  Kama  Eiver? 

Mr.  Leonard.  No,  sir. 

Senator  Nelson.  Did  you  go  clown  near  the  mouth  of  the  Volga? 

Mr.  Leonard.  At  a  later  time,  but  not  at  this  time. 

Senator  Nelson.  Down  at  Astrakhan? 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  was  stationed  at  Astrakhan  several  months  later. 

Senator  Nelson.  How  are  conditions  there? 

Mr.  Leonard.  In  Astrakhan? 

Senator  Nelson.  Yes. 

Mr.  Leonard.  The  town  has  suffered  a  good  deal.  There  was  fight- 
ing there  in  'February,  and  so  the  center  part  of  the  town  is  pretty 
well  burned  down.  The  Bolsheviki  are  in  control,  and  there  is  some 
industry  there.  Of  course,  the  city  is  the  center  of  the  fish  trade, 
and  the  trouble  is  that  they  can  not  ship  the  fish  away.  The  trans- 
portation and  delivery  has  practically  stopped,  so  that  the  town  is  in 
bad  straits. 


Senator  Nelson.  The  country  you  mention,  is  not  that  the  country 
of  the  Don  Cossacks? 

Mr.  Leonard.  That  is  the  country  to  the  west  of  the  lower  Volga. 

Senator  Nelson.  To  the  west? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes;  and  immediately  on  either  side  of  the  river 
there  is  the  desert.    Some  nomad  tribes  are  there  with  their  stock. 

Senator  Nelson.  How  big  a  town  is  that,  again?  How  many 
people  has  it,  about? 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  should  say  about  70,000—100,000. 

Senator  Nelson.  And  the  Bolsheviki  are  in  possession  of  that? 

Mr.  Leonard.  They  were  at  that  time. 

Senator  Nelson.  At  what  other  jjlaces  up  north  and  west  of  that 
were  you  at? 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  was  in  Samara,  Saratov,  Tsaritzin. 

Senator  Nelson.  Were  those  towns  in  control  of  the  Bolsheviki? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir.    Also  I  was  at  Ekaterinodar. 

Senator  Nelson.  Did  you  go  as  far  north  as  the  railroad  junction 
at  Viatka  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  No,  sir. 

Senator  Nelson.  That  is  between  Perm  and  Vologda? 

Mr.  Leonard.  No,  sir;  except  when  I  came  through  from  Siberia 
and  passed  through  there. 

Senator  Nelson.  Tell  us  what  you  saw  of  the  operations  of  the 
Bolshevik  influence,  and  how  they  carried  on  things  there. 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  think  the  first  thing  is  that  the  Bolshevik  govern- 
ment is  a  government  principally  on  paper.  In  Petrograd  and  Mos- 
cow, where  they  have  the  most  able  men  in  the  Bolshevik  party,  they 
are  able  to  some  extent  to  make  things  go,  but  in  the  provinces  or  in 
any  other  state  aside  from  those  two  it  is  pure  chance.  They  pay  no 
attention  to  the  orders  from  the  center. 

I  was  down  at  Ekaterinodar. 

(At  this  point  the  subcommittee  took  a  recess  until  2.30  o'clock 
p.  m.) 


(The  subcommittee  met  at  2.30  o'clock  p.  m.,  pursuant  to  the  taking 
of  recess.) 


Senator  Overman.  Are  you  the  gentleman  that  one  witness  stated 
had  been  imprisoned  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Overman.  Who  imprisoned  you?  And  where  were  you 
imprisoned  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  At  Tsaritzin. 

Senator  Overman.  What  size  town  is  that? 

Mr.  Leonard.  About  70,000. 

Senator  Nelson.  Which  way  is  it  f rona  Moscow  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Southeast  on  the  Volga  River. 

CiariotrvT-  DvTi^RMAN.  Go  On  aud  tell  why  they  put  you  in  jail,  how 


Mr.  Leonard.  I  do  not  know  why  we  were  arrested. 

Senator  Overman.  Were  there  others  besides  you? 

Mr.  Leonard.  There  was  another  American  vice  counstil,  an  inter- 
preter. We  had  received  orders  to  leave  the  country.  The  consuls 
were  leaving  from  Moscow,  and  they  sent  us  word  to  leave.  It  was 
impossible  to  get  to  Moscow  because  the  river  communication  had 
been  cut,  and  the  Cossacks  had  control  of  the  river  up  above,  and 
so  we  started  south.  About  12  hours  after  we  left  they  sent  a  boat 
for  us  and  brought  us  back.  There  was  a  plot  to  overthrow  the  Bol- 
shevik government  in  the  town,  which  was  to  have  taken  effect  that 
night,  six  hours  after  we  left.  They  discovered  this  plot  and  also 
found  about  10,000,000  rubles  buried  in  the  ground,  and  I  guess 
they  thought  that  money  had  belonged  to  us.  ho  they  took  us  back. 
We  denied  any  connection  with  the  government  or  with  the  neutral 
government,  or  with  the  local  soviet.  We  were  arrested  by  this  ex- 
traordinary commission  whose  purpose  was  the  combating  of  coun- 
ter revolution,  speculation,  and  sabotage.  We  were  kept  in  that 
place  about  six  weeks. 

Senator  Overman.  You  were  arrested  by  soldiers? 

Mr.  Leonard.  By  a  commissar  with  an  armed  guard. 

Senator  Nelson.  Who  was  that  commissar?  Do  you  know  his 

Mr.  Leonard.  No ;  I  do  not. 

Senator  Nelson.  Was  he  a  Eussian? 

Mr.  Leonard.  A  Eussian;  yes,  sir.  There  were  two.  One  was  a 
Eussian  and  the  other  was  a  Jew.  About  three  weeks  later  this  Jew 
commissar  was  himself  arrested.  He  had  tried  to  steal  2,000  rubles 
from  the  government. 

We  were  kept  there  for  six  weeks,  and  it  was  only  because  a  Bel- 
gian who  was  living  in  that  town  saw  us  through  the  window  that 
they  got  any  word  in  Moscow.  He  took  word  up  to  Moscow  that  we 
were  there,  and  as  soon  as  our  consul,  Mr.  Poole,  laiew  it,  he  took 
the  matter  up  with  Tchitcherin,  their  foreign  minister,  who,  to  our 
knowledge,  sent  down  at  least  two  telegrams  to  this  extraordinary 

Senator  Nelson.  The  Belgian  sent  them? 

Mr.  Leonard.  The  Belgian  took  the  word  up  to  Moscow  that  we 
were  in  prison,  and  then  Consul  General  Poole  went  to  see  the  foreign 
minister  about  our  case,  and  Tchitcherin  sent  two  telegrams,  to  our 
knowledge — he  may  have  sent  more — ordering  them  to  release  us  un- 
less they  had  incriminating  evidence  against  us,  in  which  case  order- 
ing that  we  be  sent  up  to  Moscow.  They  kept  those  telegrams  in 
Tsaritzin,  and  it  was  only  when  a  Danish  vice  consul  came  down  to 
take  out  the  French  colony — there  was  a  French  colony  of  50  people 
there,  and  the  French  vice  consul  had  been  notified,  and  he  came 
down  to  get  them  out — that  he  threw  a  bluff  and  said  that  we  were 
under  his  protection,  and  took  us  up  to  Moscow.  We  were  in  Moscow 
about  another  three  weeks. 

Senator  Nelson.  Were  you  under  arrest  in  Moscow  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  We  were  in,  solitary  confinement. 

Senator  Nelson.  At  Moscow? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  In  what  kind  of  a  prison  ? 


Mr.  Leonard.  The  best  one  I  have  ever  been  in. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Also  the  vi^orst? 
■  Mr.  Leonard.  No  ;  we  were  in  four  different  ones  over  there. 

Senator  Nelson.  You  have  not  told  us  about  the  prison  where  you 
were  first  kept  six  weeks. 

Mr.  Leonard.  We  were  in  a  big  building  that  had  been  comman- 
deered for  the  use  of  this  extraordinary  commission.  I  think  the  only 
way  you  can  understand  this  extraordinary  commission  is  to  compare 
it  with  the  inquisition.  It  has  full  powers,  and  in  order  to  pass  the 
farce  along  quickly,  it  combines  the  functions  of  the  prosecuting 
attorney  and  judge,  and  this  building  was  used  as  their  guard  room' 
and  barracks  for  their  guards,  and  the  prison. 

Senator  Nelson.  That  is  where  you  were  kept  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes;  14  of  us  in  three  little  rooms  were  there  for 
three  weeks.    Then  they  took  us  over  to  the  city  jail. 

Senator  Nelson.  What  sort  of  a  place  was  that? 

Mr.  Leonard.  They  put  us  in  a  cell  that  the  old  regime  meant  for 
one  person,  6  by  13  feet. 

Senator  Nelson.  How  many  were  in  that? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Five.  We  were  there  three  weeks,  until  they  took  us 
£0  Moscow. 

Senator  Overman.  Did  you  have  any  bed  to  sleep  on? 

Mr.  Leonard.  The  floor. 

Senator  Overman.  Was  it  cold  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  No  ;  it  was  in  the  early  autumn  they  arrested  us,  the 
middle  of  August. 

Senator  Nelson.  How  were  you  supplied  with  food  ?  Did  you  get 
enough  food  to  eat? 

Mr.  Leonard.  In  the  first  prison,  we  had  quite  a  bit  of  black  bread 
and  soup,  meat,  and  potatoes  once  a  day.  In  the  other  place  they  gave 
us  a  half  a  pound  of  black  bread  in  the  morning  and  a  dish  of  soup 
at  noon  and  some  hot  water. 

Senator  Nelson.  And  what  in  the  evening? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Hot  water.  Then  they  took  us  up  to  Moscow  and 
kept  us  there  three  weeks. 

Senator  Nelson.  What  kind  of  a  prison  did  they  keep  you  in 

Mr.  Leon'ard.  Very  good.  The  rooms  were  clean  and  dry,. and  they 
had  a  straw  mattress  for  us. 

Senator  Nelson.  You  had  plenty  to  eat  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  The  Red  Cross — the  International  Red  Cross — sent 
us  in  food  that  had  been  given  out  by  the  American  Red  Cross. 
Other  than  that,  we  got  very  little. 

Senator  Overman.  Were  you  under  guard  all  the  time? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir.  While  we  were  in  the  first  prison,  they  had 
guards  stationed  in  the  halls.  Then  when  we  went  down  into  the  city 
jail  the  doors  were  locked,  of  course,  and  we  were  supposed  to  be 
taken  out  for  a  walk  every  day — a  half-hour  walk — but  the  place  was 
so  crowded  that  we  got  a  walk  the  first  day  we  were  there  and  the  last 
day.    The  rest  of  the  time  we  were  locked  in  the  cell. 

Senator  Overman.  You  said  you  were  in  solitary  confinement? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir. 


Mr.  Lf.oxard.  They  gave  you  a  cell  in  solitary  confinement,  kept 
you  alone,  and  you  Mere  not  supposed  to  talk  with  anybody. 

Senator  Oveebiax.  You  said  that  you  were  with  three  or  four 
other  prisoners. 

Mr.  Leoxaed.  "\Alien  we  were  first  in  Tsaritzin  we  were  all  to- 
gether, biit  when  we  were  brought  to  Moscow  we  were  placed  in 
solitary  confinement. 

Senator  Xelsox.  Each  man  by  himself? 

Mr.  Leoxard.  Yes.  sir. 

Senator  O^T.E:\rAx.  How  did  you  finally  get  out? 

Mr.  Leoxard.  The  Norwegian  legation  was  exerting  pressure  all 
the  time.  But.  for  one  thing,  the  Bolshevik  government  wanted  us 
to  get  out.  There  was  a  fight  all  these  months  between  the  Bolshe- 
vik government  and  the  extraordinary  commission.  The  extraordi- 
nary commission  had  been  created  by  the  central  Bolshevik  govern- 
ment, and  it  had  tried  to  assume  all  the  power  to  itself,  and 
declared  that  it  was  mider  no  control ;  that  it  was  not  responsible 
to  anybodv.  They  fought  for  about  six  weeks  or  two  months  as  to 
that  question,  as  to  whether  it  was  to  be  independent  or  not.  The 
ministry  of  the  interior  maintained  that  the  extraordinary  commis- 
sion was  responsible  to  it,  and  that  if  the  commission  refused  to  do 
what  it  was  directed  to  do  it  would  be  made  a  separate  commissariat 
and  have  its  own  people's  commissar.  This  extraordinary  commis- 
sion refused  that. 

The  local  s(i\"iets  were  opposed  to  this  extraordinary  commission 
because  it  had  its  headquarters  in  Moscow,  and  tlien  its  branches  in 
every  city,  and  commissioners  would  come  to  a  city  where  they  did 
not  know  tlie  situation,  did  not  know  the  people,  did  not  know  the 
Bolsheviki,  and  would  start  to  make  investigations,  arresting  whom- 
soever they  pleased.  The  Soviets  claimed  that  this  extraordinary 
commission  should  be  placed  under  the  control  of  the  Soviets;  and 
they  also  put  forth  this  demand,  that  before  executing  a  man,  the 
extraordinary  commission  should  report  to  tlie  soAiet,  and  the  soviet 
could  then  look  into  the  matter,  and,  upon  application,  could  demand 
a  stay  of  execution  for  24  hours  for  further  consideration,  and  if  at 
the  end  of  24  hours  the  extraordinary  commission  Avanted  to  shoot 
him,  they  could  do  so.  But  the  commission  refused  to  entertain  that 
idea,  and  as  I  said,  when  we  were  in  prison  at  Tsaritzin  the  Bolshevik 
minister  for  foreign  affairs,  Tchitcherin,  telegraphed  down  demand- 
ing our  release,  and  they  ignored  it. 

At  the  same  time  in  this  jail  there  was  a  Bolshevik  commission 
that  had  been  sent  clown  to  see  about  bringing  ovTt  oil  from  the  Cau- 
casus, as  thei'e  was  an  oil  famine  in  Russia.  At  the  head  of  it  there 
V,  as  a  man  who  had  charge  of  the  distribution  of  oil  in  Eussia. 
The  oil  industry  had  been  nationalized,  and  he  was  in  charge,  and 
his  associate  was  a  man  detailed  from  the  commissariat  of  ways  and 
communications  as  an  expert  adviser.  In  Tsaritzin  these  members 
of  this  oil  commission  were  all  arrested.  There  was  some  bad  feeling 
between  the  big  Bolsheviki  in  town  and  the  head  of  this  oil  commis- 
sion, Makrovsky,  I  guess,  and  they  arrested  them.  About  two  days 
after  they  arrested  them  they  shot  Alexieff,  who  was  the  railroad 
adviser,  and  his  two  sons,  and  about  three  days  after  that  they  re- 
ceived a  telegram  from  Lenine — signed  "  Trotsky  by  Lenine  " — de- 


manding  that  Makrovsky  and  Alexieff  be  sent  to  Moscow  imme- 
diately; that  he  kneAv  them  and  would  answer  for  them,  and  de- 
manded that  they  be  released.  They  had  already  shot  Alexieff,  and 
they  kept  Makrovsky  there  for  at  least  another  three  or  four  weeks, 
just  ignoring  this  order  from  Lenine.  So  there  was  this  fight  be- 
tween the  government  and  this  extraordinary  commission.  Finally 
the  government  won  out,  and  when  the  government  won  out  we  were 

Senator  Nelson.  At  Moscow. 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Nelson.  Then  where  did  you  go  from  there? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Then  we  went  up  to  Petrograd  and  remained  there 
for  approximately  two  weeks,  as  the  border  was  closed  at  that  time, 
and  we  left  Petrograd  on  the  16th  of  November. 

Senator  Nelson.  What  occurred  while  you  were  at  Petrograd? 
What  did  you  see  of  the  Bolshevik  government  and  their  operations? 

Mr.  Leonard.  They  had  their  big  celebration,  tlieir  anniversary  of 
their  coming  into  power.  A  very  interesting  thing  happened.  In 
the  first  days  of  November  the  Bolsheviki  became  very  nervous  and 
panic-stricken.  The  situation  on  the  west  front  before  the  armistice 
was  signed  was  such  that  they  knew  that  the  allies  were  winning,  and 
they  were  afraid  that  Germany  would  be  used  by  the  allies,  that  the 
allies  would  join  with  Germany  and  march  into  Eussia  and  over- 
throw the  entir^  Bolshevik  movement,  and  there  were  rumors  in 
Petrograd  that  the  Germans  were  marching  on  Petrograd,  and  were 
alread}!'  coming.  Tliey  were  just  panic-stricken,  and  tlie  head  of 
the  extraordinary  commission  in  Petrograd  asked  protection  of 
the  head  of  the  International  Eed  Cross.  That  was  a  very  small  or- 
ganization, a  new  organization  which  had  been  established  when,  the 
American,  British,  and  French  Red  Cross  If  ft.  They  had  formed 
this  International  Eed  Cross  composed  of  the  Scandanavitui,  Dutch, 
and  Swiss,  and  gave  the  supplies  over  to  them  for  the  relief  of  for- 
eign citizens  in  Russia,  and  they  came  and  asked  permission  to  carry 
on  their  work;  and  this  man  was  panic-stricken  and  excited  and  he 
said  that  he  would  give  this  permission  if  they  would  in  return  give 
him  safe  conduct.  So  he  was  under  the  protection  of  this  Interna- 
tional Eed  Cross,  which  indicates  how  panic-stricken  they  were. 
Yet  the  same  people  a  few  days  before  had  refused  to  obey  the  orders 
of  Lenine. 

Then  when  the  revolution  broke  out  iii  Germany,  they  were  con- 
fident that  the  Bolshevik  revolution  had  come  in  Germany,  and 
they  were  going  out  to  lick  the  world.  So  they  came  from  this 
one  day  when  they  were  absolutely  panic-stricken,  to  two  days  after- 
wards when  they  were  very  cocky,  and  then  they  learned  tliat  it  was 
not  a  Bolshevilf  revolution  and  they  set  about  to  make  it  a  Bolshe- 
vik revolution  and  telegraphed  to  Liebknecht  that  they  were  sending 
a  trainload  of  flour  to  the  Bolsheviki  in  Berlin,  and  the  Bolshevik 
leaders  had  daily  long-distance  communication  with  the  Bolsheviki 
in  Berlin ;  and  then  they  sent  a  commission  of  the  ablest  agents,  the 
best  speakers  and  best  propagandists,  into  Germany  with  Bolshevik 

Maj.  Htjmes.  Mr.  Leonard,  will  you  tell  the  committee  what  you 
saw  during  the  time  that  you  were  confined  in  these  jails  witli  refer- 


ence  to  the  operations  of  the  extraordinary  commission,  as  to  the  way 
they  wtre  handling  prisoners — that  is,  disposing  of  them. 

Mr.  Leonard.  The}'  went  on  the  theory  that  any  man  against  whom 
.  there  was  any  accusation  was  guilty  until  he  was  proved  innocent  and 
they  would  receive  anonymous  letters  charging,  or  some  one  would 
send  warning,  that  a  certain  man  was  engaged  in  counter-revolution- 
ary activity,  and  upon  that  they  would  arrest  him  and  hold  liim  for 
months,  maybe,  before  his  case  would  be  brought  up ;  and  if  they  had 
nothing  against  him  they  would  dismiss  him  without  any  explana- 
tion. He  was  guilty  until  proved  innocent.  They  were  very  prim- 
itive in  their  methods.  I  know  the  first  room  we  were  in  when 
arrested  we  shared  with  an  Italian,  who  was  guilty,  all  right,  but 
they  tried  to  press  the  inquiry,  and  they  would  take  him  out  about 
midnight  or  at  three  o'clock  in  the  morning  and  take  him  and  beat 
him  up  with  their  revolvers.  He  would  tell  us  about  it  afterwards 
and  show  the  scars.  They  were  shooting  men  against  whom  they  had 
some  proof,  some  of  whom  undoubtedly  were  guilty  and  others  were 
not.  They  would  come  in  there  and  say  that  they  were  going  to  call 
the  roll,  and  that  these  men  were  going  to  be  sent  off  to  prison — that 
they  had  been  tried  and  were  to  be  sentenced  to  two,  three,  or  four 
years  in  prison — and  the  next  morning  the  head  of  the  guard,  who 
was  quite  a  friend  of  ours,  would  tell  us  where  the  bullet  went  in. 
Instead  of  taking  them  to  prison  they  would  line  them  up  against 
the  ditch. 

They  brought  in  one  workman  vrho  was  supposed  to  belong  to  the 
social  revolutionary  party,  one  of  the  original  socialist  parties  of 
Russia,  and  told  him  to  sit  down  and  write  all  he  knew,  for  he  was 
to  be  shot  that  night.    They  waited  until  the  next  day. 

Senator  Nelson.  Did  they  shoot  him  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  Did  he  have  a  trial  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  None  that  we  knew  of. 

Senator  Nelson.  Was  there  any  trial  at  which  he  was  present? 

Mr.  Leonard.  None  that  I  know  of.  He  may  have  had  something 
in  the  last  hour  or  so. 

Senator  Nelson.  They  tried  men  without  their  being  present? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes. 

This  Makrovsky,  this  big,  very  prominent  Bolshevik,  told  me  this, 
and  he  and  I  shared  a  cell  for  a  time.  He  was  fighting  with  the  head 
of  this  extraordinary  commission. 

Senator  Nelson.  What  is  his  name? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Makrovsky. 

Senator  Nelson.  What  was  his  other  name? 

Mr.  Leonard.  That  was  his  original  name. 

Senator  Nelson.  Did  he  not  have  an}'  other  name  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  None  that  I  knew  about. 

Senator  Nelson.  Go  ahead. 

Mr.  Leonard.  Some  people  were  asked  if  they  knew  this  man  Mak- 
rovskv.  A  whole  line  of  people  were  asked,  "  Do  you  know  this 
mnn  ?  '"  They  all  said,  "  No."  He  turned  around  in  a  curious  way 
and  said,  "  I  know  none  of  these  people."  And  then  he  asked  me, 
"  Suppose  one  of  them  had  said  that  he  knew  me,  and  the  others  had 
all  denied  it?  "  I  said,  "  What  would  have  happened  if  one  had  said 
he  laiew  you?  "    "  I  would  have  been  shot." 


Senator  Steeling.  What  was  the  charge  against  this  man  with 
whom  you  shared  this  cell  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  He  was  accused  of  participating  in  this  counter- 
revolutionary plot.  He  made  this  statement.  He  said  that  the  heads 
of  this  commission  were  degenerates ;  that  they  were  not  typical  Rus- 
sians. I  remember  that  he  said  the  head  of  this  commission  was 
nothing  but  a  degenerate,  and  that  if  he  ever  got  to  Moscow  and  he 
sa^^"  him  tliere  he  would  shoot  him  on  the  spot,  and  nobody  would  say 
anything  to  him  about  it.  This  man  also  said  that  the  people  in  the 
center  did  not  know  what  was  going  on  in  the  provinces;  that  they 
had  no  idea  what  this  commission  and  people  were  doing  in  the 
various  cities  and  provinces.  He  said,  "Why,  if  Lenine  knew  this 
he  would  shoot  them  all." 

Senator  STEELl^G.  What  did  he  mean  by  that;  namely,  that  in  the 
various  provinces  and  cities  they  were  not  revolutionists'^ 

Mr.  Leonard.  He  meant  this,  that  these  people  who  belonged  to  the 
Bolshevik  part}',  who  held  the  Bolshevik  offices,  and  who  were  doing 
exactly  as  they  pleased,  were  not  obeying  the  orders  or  the  instruc- 
tions or  the  spirit  of  the  central  government. 

Senator  Steeling.  The  central  government  as  represented  by  Len- 
ine and  Trotzky  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes ;  by  Lenine  and  Trotzky.  This  man  Makrovsky 
had  a  revolver  when  he  came  down  there  and  had  a  permit  signed  by 
the  head  of  the  all-Russian  extraordinary  commission  for  combat,  etc. 
The  local  committee  took  this  revolver  away  from  him.  He  said, 
"  I  have  a  permit  here  signed  by  Peters,  the  head  of  this  commission," 
and  they  said,  "  Do  you  mean  to  say  that  we  have  no  power  here?" 

yi&j.  Hl^ies.  Did  j'ou  ever  know  Peters?  Did  you  ever  come  into 
contact  with  him? 

Mr.  Leonard.  No,  sir. 

Maj.  Hujies.  Do  you  know  whether  it  is  a  fact  that  he  formerly 
was  in  London  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  never  heard  that  he  Avas  in  London.  I  know  his 
wife  still  is  in  London.    He  speaks  English  very  well. 

Maj.  Humes.  Is  he  a  Russian? 

Mr.  Leonard.  A  Lett.  Most  of  the  extraordinary  commission  in 
Petrograd  are  Letts.  I  could  speak  better  Russian  than  most  of  tlie 
extraordinary  commission  in  Petrograd,  and  that  is  poor  enough. 
They  could  not  write.  They  got  a  list  of  prisoners  there,  and  when 
they  came  in  to  take  them  out,  they  could  not  read  the  names,  and  one 
of  the  prisoners  would  have  to  stand  beside  them  and  read  the  names. 

Senator  Overman.  They  did  not  give  you  any  trial  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  No,  sir. 

Maj.  Humes.  How  many  constitute  that  extraordinary  commis- 


Mr.  Leonard.  I  do  not  know.  The  all-Russian  commission  in 
INIoscow  is  a  ^  er\'  elastic  structure,  and  this  man  Al  Peters  is  the 
actual  head.  There  was  another  man  who  was  supposed  to  be  the 
head,  but  Al  Peters  does  all  the  chair  work.  It  is  an  extraordinary 
commission  for  the  government  of  the  state.  There  are  no  require- 
ments— no  specifications. 

Maj.  Humes.  Now,  Mr.  Leonard,  during  your  travels  through 
Russia  did  you  come  in  contact  with  actual  examples  of  terrorism 
and  brutality? 


Mr.  Leonard.  I  had  been  in  Astrakhan.  I  had  been  sick.  Just 
before  I  was  arrested  I  came  up  to  Tsaritzin,  hoping  to  get  better. 
During  the  first  days  after  we  were  arrested  occurred  the  attempt  on 
the  life  of  Lenine,  and  just  before  that  two  or  three  of  the  prominent 
Bolsheviki  had  been  shot  and  attempts  had  been  made  to  kill  others, 
so  the  Bolsheviki  were  getting  nervous.  There  was  also  a  plot  in 
Astiakhan  to  overthrow  the  government.  They  had  some  fighting 
there,  and  it  was  while  we  were  in  jail  that  they  received  a  message 
from  Astrakhan  and  published  it  in  the  official  bulletin,  that  the  mili- 
tary commissar  there,  a  man  whom  I  had  known  and  had  dealings 
with,  telephoned  up  and  said  they  had  shot  300  officers  as  retaliation 
for  the  counter-revolution  plot,  and  as  a  retaliation  for  the  attempt 
on  the  life  of  Lenine. 

Maj.  Humes.  Those  were  officers  of  the  former  Kussian  Army^ 

jMr.  Leonard.  Yes.  That  is  almost  a  caste,  now.  The  Bolsheviki 
just  say  •■  an  officer  "  and  that  classifies  him  as  belonging  to  that  caste. 

Then  in  July,  down  in  Tsaritzin,  they  were  taking  out  men  who 
were  distinctly  of  the  proletariat  but  who  belonged  to  this  other 
party,  the  social  revolutionary  party,  as  we  could  see  from  our  cell. 
We  did  not  know  how  many  they  were  shooting,  but  the  ditch  there 
in  which  tliey  were  buried  grew  every  night.  They  were  shooting  all 
the  time. 

Maj.  Humes.  Do  you  know  anything  about  looting;  did  you  come 
in  contact  with  any  of  that? 

Mr.  Leonard.  You  can  not  stop  it.  When  they  come  in  to  take  a 
town  they  just  take  things. 

Maj.  Humes.  What  did  they  do  with  reference  to  looting  houses 
and  going  through  houses  after  they  had  taken  a  town  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  They  do  not  loot.  They  say  they  own  all  the  prop- 
ertj  of  the  nation,  that  it  is  all  public  propertj-,  and  they  just  take 
what  they  want. 

Maj.  Humes.  All  the  personal  property  is  the  common  property 
of  each  individual  in  the  nation? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes;  and  then  they  go  in  and  help  themselves.  I 
got  acquainted  with  a  Jew  who  had  been  in  New  York  who  was  a 
commissar  down  there;  I  do  not  know  just  what  kind.  His  first  act 
on  taking  office  was  to  distribute  all  the  silk  stockings  they  found 
there  to  all  the  peasant  women  and  working  women — to  all  those  who 
belonged  to  labor  unions  or  whose  husbands  did.  The  Jew  was  very 
scared  at  this  time  because  the  Cossacks  were  coming,  and  he  was 
going  to  use  his  American  library  card  as  an  American  passport  to 
get  out. 

Senator  Nelson.  What  was  his  name? 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  can  not  remember. 

Senator  Overman.  Did  you  see  many  of  these  New  York  and  Chi- 
cago Bolshevik  sympathizers? 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  was  in  the  provinces  all  the  time.  People  who 
came  over  had  an  opportunity  to  get  the  good  jobs,  and  they  were 
in  the  center. 

Senator  O^^erman.  They  were  in  with  the  Bolsheviki? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes. 

Senator  Overman.  Did  you  talk  to  anv  of  them  ? 


Mr.  Leonard.  I  talked  with  just  this  man.  That  is  the  only  case 
I  knew. 

Senator  Nelson.  Where  had  he  lived  in  this  country  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  In  New  York. 

Senator  Nelson.  On  the  East  Side? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Xes,  sir. 

Senator  Overman.  His  idea  in  going  over  there,  Mr.  Leonard, 
Avas  that  he  ijiought  it  was  going  to  be  a  good  time,  I  guess. 

Mr.  Leonard.  Thought  it  was  going  to  be  a  good  time.  He 
boasted  that  he  had  never  done  a  day's  work  in  his  life. 

Senator  Nelson.  A  Hebrew? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  And  had  never  done  a  day's  work  in  his  life? 

Mr.  Leonard.  And  did  not  intend  to. 

Senator  Overman.  And  he  wanted  to  come  over  to  this  country 
and  do  the  same  thing. 

Mr.  Leonard.  No ;  he  was  worried  about  his  life,  and  he  was  going 
to  come  over  here  where  he  would  be  safe. 

Senator  Overman.  Did  you  know  Lenine?    Did  you  ever  see  him? 

Mr.  Leonard.  No,  sir. 

Senator  Overman.  Or  Trotzky? 

Mr.  Leonard.  No,  sir.  It  might  be  interesting  to  quote  this  man 
Makrovsky,  a  man  who  ought  to  know,  as  he  was  in  the  people's 
council  in  Russia. 

Senator  Nelson.  Who? 

]S[r.  Leonard.  This  man  with  whom  I  was  in  jail,  this  oil  commis- 
sion man.  He  said  that  everybody  trusted  Lenine — that  is,  of  the 
Bolshevik  party — that  everybody  trusted  and  respected  and  admired 
Lenine.  They  admired  Trotzky.  He  is  their  best  orator,  the  most 
brilliant  orator  in  Russia  to-day,  but  they  have  not  the  same  faith  in 
him  that  they  have  in  Lenine.  Lenine,  they  think,  is  absolutely 
honest — he  is  an  idealist,  a  fanatic,  but  he  is  honest — whereas  Trotzky 
is  capable  and  brilliant,  but  they  think  he  has  personal  ambitions,  and 
very  many  of  them  think  that  he  is  getting  an  army — you  see  he  is  the 
minister  of  the  army  and  minister  of  the  navy — and  that  he  is  try- 
ing to  make  this  army  loyal  to  him  as  an  individual  rather  than  to 
the  government,  and  that  he  is  seeking  an  opportunity  to  rise.  I 
just  hand  that  out  as  the  opinion  of  a  very  intelligent,  educated,  and 
an  ideal  Bolshevik. 

Senator  Overman.  He  is  a  man  of  property  and  yet  a  Bolshevik? 

Mr.  Leonard.  He  has  no  property.  He  is  a  man  of  education. 
He  had  been  a  revolutionist  all  his  life,  and  had  been  wounded  in  the 
revolution  of  1905;  was  a  student,  I  think,  in  Italy  and  a  student 
elsewhere,  but  a  man  of  no  property. 

Senator  Nelson.  Trotzky  lived  in  this  country  for  a  while,  did  he 

Mr.  Leonard.  Trotzky  has  been  here. 

Senator  Nelson.  You  refer  to  Lenine? 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  was  referring  to  this  man  who  gave  me  these  data. 

Senator  Overman.  Did  Makrovsky  tell  you  what  they  propose  to 
(Jo — what  the  plans  are  of  these  Bolsheyiki  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes ;  he  told  about  their  ideals,  and  all  of  that.  As 
near  as  I  could  compare  them,  it  was  to  bring  into  operation  the 


Golden  Enle ;  they  had  fine  ideals.  But  it  was  very  interesting  to  see 
that  he  changed  absolutely  there  in  prison.  It  was  not  for  fear  of 
personal  danger,  though  there  was  that — he  was  not  afraid  of  his 
life — but  he  had  sacrificed  everything  for  the  revolution,  that  had 
been  his  religion,  and  now  the  revolution  had  come  and  as  long  as  he 
was  in  Moscow  he  was  fairly  well  satisfied,  because  something  was 
happening  there,  but  the  minute  he  got  off  in  the  provinces  and  saw 
what  was  taking  place,  it  was  a  pathetic  sight  to  see  him.  His  faith 
was  broken,  and  although  he  came  to  prison  a  Bolshevik,  when  he 
left  he  was  a  Menshe^'ik,  absolutely.  He  said,  "  The  time  is  not  ripe. 
We  can  not  put  the  thing  through.  It  must  come  by  evolution  and 
not  by  revolution.'' 

Maj.  Humes.  Can  you  think  of  any  occurrences  that  you  have  not 
related  along  the  line  of  the  activities  of  the  Bolshevik  government? 
If  so,  just  proceed  and  relate  them. 

Mr.  Leoxard.  I  will  trj-  to  emphasize  this,  that  Bolshevism  is  a 
rule  of  a  minority.  The  Bolsheviki  gained  their  power  in  N^ovember. 
They  promised  peace  and  bread,  and  to  the  peasants  land;  peace, 
bread,  and  land — peace,  bread,  and  freedom.  By  freedom  they 
meant  giving  the  workman  a  chance  to  nationalize  industry,  to  social- 
ize industry,  to  take  complete  control,  and  with  those  three  slogans 
they  captured  the  Russian  Army,  and  everybodv  was  a  good  Bolshe- 
vik as  long  as  it  meant  getting  his  land  or  getting  his  factory. 

Then  when  the  government  tried  to  take  his  wheat  from  the  peasant 
at  a  fixed  price — a  much  lower  price  than  he  could  get  in  the  open 
market — and  when  the  price  of  manufactured  articles  was  rising 
every  day,  the  peasant  said  it  was  unjust  and  that  this  was  the  gov- 
ernment of  the  factory  men.  They  said,  "  The  first  thing  they  do  is 
to  form  their  committees  and  lessen  their  hours  of  labor,  and  then 
they  raise  their  wages  and  make  them  retroactive,  so  that  they  get 
this  increase  of  wages  for  a  year  or  more  back,  and  the  result  of  it  is 
that  the  prices  of  goods  must  rise,  and  at  the  same  time  they  are 
lowering  the  price  of  wheat;  so  we  are  getting  it  both  ways."  That 
caused  the  great  split  between  the  peasants — the  farmers — and  the 

Then  there  was  a  plan  in  Petrograd  and  in  Moscow  to  arm  these 
men  and  send  them  down  into  the  provinces  to  take  the  wheat  by 
force,  which,  of  course,  did  not  appeal  to  the  peasants. 

The  peasant  is  conservative,  more  conservative  than  the  industrial 
worker  in  Russia,  and  in  a  local  soviet  of  peasants  sometimes  they 
would  not  elect  a  Bolshevik  soviet,  but  would  elect  a  social  revolu- 
tionary soviet,  belonging  to  the  social  revolutionary  party.  Then  the 
Bolsheviki  would  send  down  and  by  force  of  arms  would  expel  that 
soviet  and  either  restore  the  Bolshevik  soviet  or  create  a  new  Bolshe- 
vik soviet. 

But  still  the  conditions  did  not  satisfy  them,  and  so  this  last  fall 
Lenine  put  in  the  program  of  these  committees  of  the  poor.  These 
are  committees  made  up  of  the  riffraff  of  the  peasants,  those  people 
who  have  not  any  land  or  have  not  any  property,  people  that  drank 
up  all  the  money  they  ever  made,  people  without  any  ambition.  He 
put  them  in  control  of  the  Soviets,  or  to  control  the  action  of  the 
Soviets ;  and  so  they  have  a  combined  function,  they  are  executive  and 
administrative ;  and,  of  course,  that  does  not  appeal  to  the  peasant. 


The  peasant  wants  to  elect  his  committee  and  have  liis  soviet  have  the 
power.  Then  here  come  these  people,  the  riffraff,  and  try  to  take 
what  they  want.  I  know  in  some  villages  they  could  not  elect  any 
committees  of  the  poor  because  they  did  not  haxe  any  poor  peasants. 
Then  they  would  import  them  from  some  place. 

Senator  OvEinrAx.  Did  the  officers  take  any  part  in  this  Bolshevik 
novement  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Not  what  you  would  call  reoular  officers.  Some  of 
the  students  who  had  always  been  I'evolutiouary,  and  who  since  the 
war  liad  come  through  quick  training  camps,  came  back  in  the  low 
>-rades  as  commissioned  officers,  and  also  some  who  had  risen  from 
:he  ranks,  and  some  men  Avho  saw  a  chance  to  make  a  career  for  them- 
selves, took  part  in  it. 

Senator  Oveuman.  Where  was  the  German  army  while  all  this  was 
3'oing  on? 

Mr.  Leonaed.  The  Germans  were  transferring  their  ai'my  from' the 
eastern  front  to  the  western  front.  During  all  this  time  there  was 
hardly  any  fighting.  After  that  advance  of  June,  1918,  came  a  re- 
treat, and  then  fighting  practically  stopped.  There  was  desultory 

Senator  Nelson.  And  the  German  troops  were  sent  to  the  western 

Senator  Oveejian.  Did  they  fraternize  with  the  Germans  at  all, 
while  3'ou  were  there  ? 

Mr.  Leonaed.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Overman.  The  Germans  were  encouraging  the  Bolshevik 

Mr.  Leonard.  Very  much  so. 

Senator  Nelson.  Did  you  see  any  of  these  Bolshevik  troops? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Nelson.  I  mean  the  troops  of  the  army. 

Mr.  Leonard.  Of  the  Bolshevik  army? 

Senator  Nelson.  Yes. 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Nelson.  Did  they  have  German  officers  among  them? 

Mr.  Leonard.  None  that  I  ever  saw,  except  in  this,  that  they  had 
what  they  called  international  battalions  of  the  red  army,  made  up 
for  the  most  part  of  prisoners  of  war.  But  there  were  very  few 
officers  among  them.  There  were  noncommissioned  officers,  but  very 
few  commissioned  officers. 

Maj.  Humes.  You  mean  German  nonconmiissioned  officers? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir.  They  had  this  international  battalion  com- 
posed of  Germans,  Austrians,  Hungarians,  and  Chinese. 

Senator  Nelson.  Did  they  have  any  sailors  there — Russian  sailors? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Nelson.  Were  they  in  the  Bolshevik  army  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  They  were  at  first.  But  they  are  not  idealists,  by 
iny  means.  They  are  not  fighting  for  any  ideals.  The  sailors  are 
the  roughnecks  of  Russia.  They  terrorize.  For  instance,  30  sailors 
3ame  to  Suma  and  held  up  the  town,  held  it  for  two  days,  and  arrested 
ill  the  government  officials.  They  went  into  the  port  towns  of 
Novorssiisk  and  other  towns,  and  they  tokl  me  that  when  they  came 
to  Odessa  none  of  the  sailors  had  less  than  40,000  rubles.     They  had 


looted  the  banks.  A  crowd  of  20  to  40  would  come  into  a  town  and 
take  the  hotel  and  insist  they  were  going  to  live  there.  In  one  town 
one  of  the  government  officials  tried  to  get  me  a  room  in  the  hotel 
and  he  could  not  do  it.     They  did  not  dare  throw  the  sailors  out. 

Senator  Nelson.  These  were  Black  Sea  sailors? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir.  They  were  all  the  same,  Baltic  or  Black 

Senator  Nelson.  Are  the  Baltic  sailors  bad  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir:  they  are  more  of  the  regular  sailor  type. 
Most  of  the  regular  army  of  Russia  was  killed,  but  the  navy,  of 
course,  did  not  suffer,  so  they  have  the  old  men,  still,  men  who  are 
not  afraid,  and  who  have  been  harshly  treated  and  are  out  for  re- 
venge and  a  wild  time. 

Senator  Nelson.  What  was  your  experience  in  getting  out  from 
Petrograd  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Why,  there  was  no  experience,  except  that  when 
the  way  was  open  they  gave  us  permission  and  we  went  to  a  Finnish 

Senator  Nelson.  Did  you  have  to  buy  your  way  across? 

Mr.  Leonard.  We  had  to  buy  our  baggage  through  the  customs 
and  have  it  carted  down,  and  we  went  out  with  a  Norwegian  courier. 
Between  us  we  had  a  good  deal  of  baggage,  enough  to  fill  a  little 
handcart,  and  they  carried  our  baggage  through  the  customs,  about 
four  minutes'  walk,  and  charged  us  a  thousand  rubles,  which  went 
to  the  government  employees  there. 

Senator  Sterling.  Mr.  Leonard,  I  would  like  to  ask  a  little  more 
particularly  about  soviet  government  in  Eussia.  Can  you  say  about 
how  many  of  the  soviet  governments  there  are  in  Russia  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  left  there  in  the  middle  of  November,  and  there 
have  been  so  many  changes,  I  can  not  say. 

Senator  Sterling.  The  soviet  government  is  an  old  institution  in 
Russia,  is  it  not  ?  Even  before  the  revolution,  and  for  a  long  time, 
they  had  soviet  governments,  had  they  not? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Not  to  my  knowledge.  They  attempted  in  the  revo- 
lution of  1905  to  establish, the  Soviets  of  soldiers,  sailors,  and  work- 
men. When  the  revolution  was  overthrown  in  1905  of  course  those 
Soviets  were  abolished — destroyed — but  since  then  it  has  been  an  idea 
of  their  own  that  if  they  e\'ei'  had  the  power  they  would  establish 
this  government  of  the  councils. 

Senator  Sterling.  Coincident  with  the  revolution  itself  and  the 
overthrow  of  the  Czar,  a  number  of  these  soviet  governments  were 
established  there? 

Mr.  Leonard.  These  Soviets,  these  councils,  were  established,  but 
took  no  part  in  the  government  aside  from  criticizing.  At  that  time 
there  was  a  dual  government  under  Kerensky — or  rather,  the  first  pro- 
visional government — and  thit  was  really  the  Petrograd  soviet.  The 
Petrograd  soviet  wanted  to  have  things  done  its  own  way  but  re- 
fused to  take  the  power  itself. 

Senator  Sterling.  T^Tiat  is  the  territorial  jurisdiction  of  these 
soviet  councils  or  governments?    Do  they  have  one  for  the  city? 

Mr.  Leonard.  On  the  top  they  have  this  all-Russian  soviet  which 
meets  in  Moscow.     Then  there  will  be  a  district  of  several  states 


which  has  a  district  soviet,  and  then  each  state  will  have  a  state 
soviet,  and  each  city  will  have  a  soviet. 

Senator  Sterling.  What  do  you  call  a  state  now,  in  Russia  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  One  of  the  old  provinces  we  would  call  a  state.  It 
is  a  geographical  division.  They  will  have  a  soviet  for  a  state,  and 
then  a  city  will  have  its  soviet,  and  then  a  ward  will  have  its  soviet ; 
but  they  are  all  tied  up  together. 

Senator  Sterling.  They  have  the  federal  supreme  soviet,  then  the 
district  Soviets,  then  the  state  Soviets,  and  then  the  city  and  village 
=oviets  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  and  then  the  agriculturalists  will  have  the 
county  Soviets. 

Senator  Steeling.  On  the  establishment  of  those  Soviets  were  they 
in  the  hands  of  the  Bolsheviki  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  No,  sir. 

Senator  Steeling.  Did  the  Bolsheviki  succeed  in  capturing  them 

Mr.  Leonard.  The  Bolsheviki  captured  them  by  propaganda,  and 
the  Soviets  as  first  established  were  more  radical  than  the  first  pro- 
visional government ;  but  at  that  time  they  were  not  Bolshevik,  and 
it  was  only  about  in  July  that  the  Bolshevik  movement  got  to  be  seri- 
ous in  Petrograd.  Then  they  were  electing  their  members  into  these 
Soviets,  so  gradually  by  absorption  most  of  the  Soviets  became  Bol- 
shevik, and  it  was  only  when  they  found  that  they  had  the  Soviets  in 
this  mariner  that  they  attempted  to  overthrow  the  government.  The 
Soviets    were   not   captured   by    force;    it   was   by    absorption. 

Senator  Sterling.  Are  there  any  considerable  number  of  soviet 
governments  or  councils  not  in  the  hands  of  the  Bolsheviki  at  the 
present  time? 

Mr.  Leonard.  At  the  present  time  I  would  say  none  whatsoever 
in  bolshevik  Eussia,  because  such  do  not  exist. 

Senator  Steeling.  What  do  you  understand  by  bolshevik  Russia? 
I  want  to  know  what  part  of  Russia,  if  any,  is  not  under  the  domi- 
nation of  the  Bolshevik  movement? 

Mr.  Leonard.  The  Ukraine,  part  of  it,  is  not  under  Bolshevik  gov- 
ernment. But  I  see  by  the  papers  that  the  Bolshevists  are  advancing 
into  the  Ukraine. 

Senator  Steeling.  How  about  that  territory  captured  by  the 
Czecho-Slovaks  and  the  Little  Russian  armies  in  Vologda  for  200 
miles  along  the  Volga  River?     Is  that  under  Bolshevik  rule? 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  think  it  is,  now.  It  has  been  recaptured.  They 
drove  the  Czecho-Slovaks  out  of  Samara  in  September,  I  should 
3a^^  but  for  a  time  the  Czecho-Slovaks  had  control  of  the  Volga  River. 

"Senator  Wolcott.  Would  it  be  a  fair  statement  tO'  say  that  the 
Bolsheviki  rule  over  the  greater  part  of  European  Russia  now  ? 

Mr.  LroNAPD.  ^>Y;>'"!"oul"  a  map  it  would  be  hard  to  sa'''.  hr.t  I  should 
iaj  it  would  be  a  little  more  than  a  half.  Finland  is  out,  part  of 
Poland,  and  part  of  Ukraine.  The  Caucasus  is  in,  and  then  the 
Don  Cossacks;  so  that  it  leaves  Big  Russia,  what  they  call  Big  Russia, 
in  their  hands.  So  I  should  sav  it  would  be  pretty  evenly  distributed ; 
perhaps  a  little  more  than  half. 

Senator  Steeling.  How  about  the  government  in  northern  Russia, 
iround  Archangel? 


Mr.  Leonard.  Of  course,  that  is  not  Bolshevik. 

Senator  ISteiujng.  But  thev  liave  there  the  soviet  councils,  do  they 

iSIr.  Leonard.  I  reallj^  do  not  know — I  have  never  been  there — but  I 
do  not  think  so.    I  tliink  they  hav,e  some  other  form  of  government. 

Senator  Xelson.  That  northern  part  of  Eussia,  north  of  the  Si- 
berian Eailroad,  around  tlie  ATliite  Sea  and  Archangel,  and  up  in 
that  country,  is  very  thinly  settled? 

Mr.  Leonard.  A'ery  sparsely  settled. 

Senator  Nelson.  It  is  a  country  of  vast  swamps  and  heavy  timber? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir.' 

Senator  Xelson.  And  there  are  few  people  there,  comparatively? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Xelson.  The  settlement  in  Russia  is  south  of  what  j'ou 
call  the  Siberian  Railroad  t 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Xel.son.  Xorth  of  that  it  is  practically  what  wo  would 
call  largel}'  a  nonsettled  country,  is  not  that  the  fact? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Sterling.  Were  you  in  the  northern  part  at  all? 

Mr.  Leonard.  No,  sir ;  I  was  not.  I  gained  this  information  from 
a  British  major  who  was  in  jail  in  Moscow  with  us. 

Senator  Xelson.  Have  not  some  European  capitalists  built  a  road 
up  to  the  Kola  Peninsula,  on  the  Murman  coast? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes. 

Senator  Xelson.  It  is  600  or  700  miles  long? 

Mr.  Leonard.  About  that  distance. 

Senator  Nelson.  Then  there  is  an  older  road  from  Vologda  up 
to  Archangel? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Xelson.  And  a  road  connected  with  Viatka,  east  of  that, 
a  station  west  of  Perm? 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  passed  through  there  in  July. 

Senator  Xelson.  How  did  you  go  out? 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  went  by  the  railroad  through  Ii'kutsk. 

Senator  Sterling.  How  far  east  from  the  European  Russian 
boundary  is  Irkutsk? 

Mr.  Leonard.  It  is  just  about  half  way  across  Siberia. 

Senator  Sterling.  Where,  from  Lake  Baikal? 

Mr.  Leonard.  About  40  miles  west  of  Lake  Baikal. 

Senator  Sterling.  How  about  that  region  in  there,  is  that  under 
Bolshevik  rule,  along  the  trans-Siberian  road? 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  can  not  say  now,  because  it  is  changing  so  often. 
Mr.  Storey  came  from  there  after  I  did. 

Senator  X'elson.  I  think  the  country  from  Vladivostok  up  as  far 
west  as  Omsk  in  western  Siberia,  and  perhaps  across  as  far  as  Perm, 
is  practically  under  the  control  of  the  anti-Bolsheviki,  under  the  con- 
trol of  the  Czecho-Slavs,  the  Japanese,  the  French,  and  the  Enghsh. 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  think  that  for  a  time  the  eastern  part,  near  Vladi- 
vostok, and  then  the  Urals,  Avere  in  the  possession  of  the  anti-Bol- 
sheviki, whereas  around  Irkutsk  they  were  Bolsheviki. 

Senator  Xelson.  But  they  have  been  cleaned  out  of  there.  Irkutsk 
is  near  Lake  Baikal  and  is  the  capital  of  eastern  Siberia  ? 


Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Sterling.  What  has  become  of  the  Czecho-Slovak  Army 
that  was  fighting  there  and  holding  for  a  time  the  Trans-Siberian 
Eailroad  ? 

Mr.  Leoxard.  They  have  had  to  retreat  because  tliey  had  no  sup- 
port at  all.  It  was  meant  to  serve  as  a  nucleus  I'or  a  Siberian'  g-ov- 
ernment,  but  instead  of  having  one  government  they  had  over  a  hun- 
dred there.  The  army  of  the  Czecho-Slovaks  were  underfed  and  un- 
derclothed  and  had  tremendous  losses,  out  of  440,000  troops  their 
casualties  Avere  40  per  cent,  and  when  no  support  came  they  had  to 
withdraw  to  save  themselves. 

Senator  Sterling.  Did  you  meet  Col.  Lebedeff? 

Mr.  Leonard.  No  ;  I  did  not  meet  him. 

Senator  Sterling.  You  have  heard  of  him '''.  He  was  very  much 
interested  in  the  Czecho-Slovak  Army  and  helped  in  the  raising  of 
a  loyal  Russian  Army. 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  do  not  know  whether — he  M'as  across  the  line,  evi- 
dentlj'.  We  got  very  little  news  thei-e.  We  got  new^s  from  across  the 
line  only  once  in  a  while. 

Senator  Xelson.  Part  of  the  Ukraine  is  now  held  by  the  Bolshe- 
viki,  is  it? 

Mr.  Lkonard.  If  you  can  believe  the  newspapers,  they  have  taken 
almost  as  far  as  Kiev. 

Senator  Nelson.  That  is  in  the  western  part  of  the  Ukraine  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  It  is  in  the  northeastern  part.  The  Ulcraine  runs 
like  that  [indicating],  and  it  is  in  the  northeastern  part. 

Senator  Nelson.  They  claim  clear  from  the  boundary? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir;  but  the  line  runs  like  that  [indicating]. 

Senator  Nelson.  How^  is  it  with  the  Cossacks  on  the  steppes  back  of 
the  lower  Volga?    Do  not  the  Don  Cossacks  hold  that? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes.  sir. 

Senator  Nelson.  Then  that  is  not  under  control  of  the  Bolsheviki, 
is  it  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  When  I  left  it  was  not. 

Senator  Nelson.  That  country  up  aroimd  the  Dvina  River,  is  that 
in  control  of  the  Bolsheviki? 

Mr.  Leonard.  No;  that  was  in  control  of  the  anti-Bolsheviki. 

Senator  Nelson.  So  that  the  center  of  the  Bolshevik  power  there 
is  in  what  they  call  (rreater  Russia,  and  a  part  of  Little  Russia,  and 
a  part  of  LTkraine.    That  is  about  it? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir.  Its  big  center  is  in  Moscow.  It  is  an 
industrial  movement.  It  is  a  movement  of  the  armed  minority  of  the 
industrial  classes — the  factory  worlmien. 

Senator  Nelson.  Ho  that,  roughly  speaking,  they  have  got  about 
half  of  Russia  proper  under  their  control? 

Mr.  Leonard.  It  would  show  approximately  a  half,  I  would  guess. 
I  -would  make  no  definite  statement  without  a  map. 

Senator  Nelson.  And  they  have  practically  lost  control  of  Siberia? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir.  A  question  has  been  raised  here  about 
food.  I  would  say  that  there  is  sufficient  food  in  Russia,  provided 
there  could  be  distribution.  In  the  northern  Caucasus  there  are 
tremendous  supplies  of  wheat.  They  have  not  touched  the  crops  for 
two  or  three  vears'  back.    They  have  the  crops  stored  there. 


Senator  Xelsox.  They  have  poor  transportation  facilities? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Very  poor.  During  the  summer  they  can  transport 
by  the  river.  One  railroad  was  absolutely  cut  off  and  the  other 
railroad  was  cut  off  a  good  part  of  the  time ;  and  it  is  only  a  single- 
track  road,  anyway. 

Senator  Xelson.  Is  that  railroad  from  Baku  cut  off  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  When  I  was  there  it  was  cut  off  by  the  hill  tribes. 

Senator  Xelson.  That  is  in  the  oil  fields  on  the  southwest  side  of 
the  Citspian  Sea? 

jMr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Xelson.  I  believe  vou  said  that  the  Bolsheviki  had  control 
of  Astrakhan? 

Mr.  Leonard.  They  had  when  I  was  there.  I  see  by  the  papers 
that  the  British  are  supposed  to  have  entered  Astrakhan. 

Senator  Xelson.  Ancl  a  British  fleet  is  outside  of  Odessa,  in  the 
Black  Sea  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  So  the  papers  say. 

Senator  Xelson.  That  is  the  principal  town  in  southern  Russia,  is 
it  not? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Xelson.  It  is  their  greatest  wheat  market? 

JNIr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Xelson.  Eight  face  to  face  with  what  they  call  the  Black 
Belt  in  Russia? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Xelson.  And  the  country  immediately  around  Odessa  is 
not  under  the  control  of  the  Bolsheviki? 

]Mr.  Leonard.  Xo,  sir. 

Senator  Xelson.  How  is  it  down  in  the  Crimea  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  When  I  was  in  Russia  nobody  kiiew  what  was  hap- 
pening down  there.     They  had  different  governments  down  there. 

Senator  Xelson.  The  Bolsheviki  did  not  have  control  of  tliem? 

Mr.  Leonard.  That  was  a  part  of  Ukraine,  so  the  Bolsheviki  were 
not  in  control  there  at  that  time. 

Senator  Xelson.  The  country  around  the  north  side  of  the  ."^ea  of 
Azov,  that  is,  where  the  Don  enters  into  it 

My.  Leonard.  That  is  in  the  hands  of  the  Don  Cossacks. 

Senator  Xelsox.  And  the  Bolsheviki  have  no  control  there? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Xo:  they  were  driven  back  by  the  Don  Cossacks  and 
by  the  Germans. 

Senator  Xelson.  The  Don  Cossacks — that  is,  the  older  element- 
are  not  with  the  Bolsheviki? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Their  loyalty  is  wavering  because  they  have  not 
any  money  or  supplies. 

Senator  Xelson.  But  if  thej^  had  monej'  or  supplies,  they  would 
be  all  right? 

Jlr.  Leonard.  T'nless  they  are  all  tired.  There  is  that  feeling,  and 
there  was  that  split  between  the  Don  Cossacks  and  the  younger  Cos- 
sacki,  who  had  been  to  the  front  and  came  back  strongly  tainted  with 
Bolshevism.  For  a  time  they  were  widely  split,  and  then  they  came 
together.     The  younger  Cossacks  wanted  their  own  land. 

Senator  X^'elson.  Do  you  not  have  an  idea,  Mr.  Leonard,  that  the 
outcome  will  be  this,  that  the  Russian  peasants  and  the  Cossacks  and 


the  remnants  of  the  old  Eussian  Army  will  by-and-by  unite  and  be 
able  to  stamp  out  the  Bolsheviki  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Provided  they  can  unite.  That  has  yet  to  be 
proved.  That  has  been  the  trouble  over  there.  That  has  been  the 
reason  the  Bolshevik  party  has  been  able  to  hold  its  position,  he- 
cause  not  of  strength  of  its  own  but  because  of  the  weakness  of  its 

Senator  Nelsox.  Do  you  remember  the  name  of  that  Eussian  ad- 
miral who  has  assumed  control  of  the  Siberian  Eailroad? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Admiral  Kolchak. 

Senator  Nelson.  He  is  anti-Bolshevik? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir;  very  much  so. 

Senator  Nelson.  And  he  seems  to  have  done  pretty  well  lately  in 
the  neighborhood  of  Omsk? 

Mr.  Leonard.  You  get  more  information  about  that  than  I  do,  be- 
cause when  I  was  in  Eussia  we  got  absolutely  nothing  over  there,  as 
to  anybody. 

Senator  Nelson.  But  you  have  kept  track  of  the  papers  since  you 
have  come  here? 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  gather  from  the  newspapers  that  he  has  been  a 

Senator  Nelson.  Naturally,  the  tendency  of  the  Cossacks  would 
be  toward  the  conservative  side,  as  toward  the  Eussian  side — anti- 
Bolshevik — would  it  not  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes.  The  feeling  of  the  Cossacks  was  that  they 
would  defend  their  own  territory,  but  they  were  opposed  to  invading 
Bolshevik  Evissia  in  order  to  overthrow  the  Bolshevik  government. 

Senator  Nelson.  But  they  would  never  submit  to  the  Bolshevik 
government  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Some  of  them  have  done  so. 

Senator  Nelson.  They  would  not  allow  their  lands  to  be  taken 
away  from  them? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Some  of  them  have  done  so.  The  trouble  in  the 
whole  situation  was  that  they  would  not  unite.  They  would  fight 
among  themselves  until  the  Bolshevik  party  came  in,  and  then  when 
they  were  powerless  and  their  arms  had  been  taken  away  they  would 
begin  to  think  about  getting  together;  and  eventually  they  did,  but 
at  tremendous  cost. 

Senator  Nelson.  Do  you  not  apprehend  that  ultimately  there  will 
be  dissension  among  the  Bolshevik  leaders,  and  they  will  break  up 
into  sections? 

Mr.  Leonard.  They  probably  will. 

Senator  Nelson.  Yes. 

Mr.  Leonard.  That  is  very  probable,  except  for  this,  that  they 
are  pretty  keen  men,  and  they  know  that  their  only  safety  lies  in 
sticking  by  each  other;  that  the  minute  the}'  start  fighting  among 
themselves,  the  whole  thing  falls. 

Senator  Nelson.  Are  there  many  of  those  Bolshevik  leaders  that 
have  lived  here  in  this  country? 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  do  not  know.  In  the  provinces  where  I  was  most 
of  the  time  there  were  very  few.  My  friends  who  have  been  in  Petro- 
grad  and  Moscow  say  that  there  are  a  great  number  of  them  there. 


The  foreign  minister  of  the  Petrograd  government  is  n  man  who  has 
been  in  America. 

Senator  Xelson.  AAliat  is  his  name? 

jNIr.  Leonard.  Zorin. 

Senator  Xelson.  What  is  his  real  name '. 

Mr.  Lec)Nakd.  I  do  not  know. 

Senator  Xelson.  Is  lie  a  (xerman  or  a  Hebrew? 

Mr.  Leonakd.  Xo;  he  is  a  Kussian,  so  far  as  I  could  say. 

Senator  Xelson.  He  is  a  real  Russian!' 

Mr.  Leonard.  He  is  neither  a  German  nor  a  Hebrew. 

Senator  SaisRLiNG.  What  is  the  thought,  among  those  opposed  to 
the  federal  movement,  in  regard  to  allied  intervention,  and  the  use 
of  a  sufficient  military  force ''. 

Mr.  Leonard.  At  first  they  said  "  All  we  need  is  a  nucleus."  They 
said,  "  Wliy,  with  a  regiment  of  American,  or  British,  or  French 
soldiers  we  could  take  Moscow.  AVhy  not  send  us  just  a  nucleus?'' 
Thej  could  take  the  town,  but  they  could  not  hold  it,  of  course. 
They  now  no  longer  asked  for  such  help,  but  the  people  I  knew 
wanted  the  allies  to  come  in  and  save  them.  For  instance,  the  Finns 
"were  asking  for  help.  But  the  people  I  met  throughout  Eussia,  as 
recently  stated,  had  been  through  the  four  years  of  war  and  suffer- 
ing, and  were  apathetic,  and  they  were  expecting  the  allies  to  come 
in  and  save  them. 

Senator  Sterling.  With  a  small  allied  force  they  could  at  one  time 
have  taken  ]\Ioscow  and  prevented  the  establishment  of  the  Bolshevik 
government  there? 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  do  not  know  about  that.  With  all  these  counter- 
revolutionary plots  that  I  saw  it  was  easy  at  any  time  to  take  a  city. 
But  what  is  the  use  of  it  ?  You  can  not  hold  it.  There  is  one  com- 
munity there,  and  all  around  you  are  the  enemyl  You  have  no  way 
of  getting  ammunition,  and  that  is  the  whole  trouble.  But  as  to  put- 
ting a  nucleus  of  a  military  force  there,  it  has  been  tried  in  three 
places  and  has  not  been  a  success  anywhere.  They  gave  them  40,000 
to  60,000  C'zecho-Slovaks,  troops  than  whom  there  are  no  better  fight- 
ers in  the  world,  and  the  army  did  not  materialize.  The  Czecho- 
slovaks for  several  months  fought  against  overw'helming  numbers 
and  finally,  because  of  luck  of  support,  had  to  Avithdraw. 

They  tried  the  same  thing  down  in  Baku.  They  asked  the  aid  of 
the  British  to  come  over  fi-oni  Ensili,  which  is  about  18  hours  by  boat, 
and  they  asked  them  to  send  up  a  small  group  of  British,  with  British 
officers  and  some  armored  cars,  and  some  guns  and  ammunition.  The 
British  responded.  They  sent  up  about  50  officers,  if  I  remember  cor- 
rectly, and  several  hundred  men.  and  I  think  vrere  to  have  about  2,000 
men  and  some  armored  cais  in  Baku.  They  could  not  hold  the  town. 
The  people  did  not  rally  around  them.  At  the  same  time  that  the 
jieople  were  asking  aid  of  the  British  they  were  making  Turkish  flags 
as  well  as  British  flags  in  their  homes,  so  that  they  would  be  ready 
to  hang  up  t1ie  right  flag,  whichever  side  won.  There  came  up  a  small 
force,  and  they  fought  for  about  two  weeks  and  then  had  to  go  back. 

The  conditions  were  not  very  favorable  for  trying  out  anything 
at  Archangel,  because  there  were  not  many  troops  there,  and  it  seems 
that  the  allies  had  to  do  most  of  the  fighting  there. 

Senator  Nelson.  Where  is  that? 


Mr.  Leonaed.  Archangel.  So  that  at  three  different,  places  where 
it  has  been  tried — two  places  Avhere  it  has  .been  tried  under  good  con- 
ditions and  one  place  where  conditions  were  not  so  good — the  at- 
tempts have  failed. 

Senator  Nelson.  So  that  more  than  a  mere  nucleus  of  an  army 
would  be  required  to  maintain  order  and  keep  the  Bolsheviki  in 
check  ? 

Mr.  Leoxakd.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Xelsojj.  "With  the  port  of  Archangel  and  that  jjost  on  the 
Murman  coast,  on  the  Kola  Peninsula,  and  with  all  the  ports  on  the 
Black  Sea  under  the  control  of  the  allies,  and  also  the  ports  along  tlie 
Baltic  under  the  control  of  the  British  and  French  fleets,  those  Bol- 
sheviki are  cut  off  from  the  sea  in  Petrograd,  are  they  not? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Xelson.  And  Avill  not  that  ultimately  lead  to  their  coming 
down  from  the  high  tree  ? 

Mr.  Leonaed.  It  may  lead  to  it  ultimately.  But  on  the  other  hand, 
Avith  a  population  85  per  cent  of  whom  are  peasants  who  have  not 
any  very  great  demands,  they  can  exist  on  what  they  have  and  what 
they  can  raise. 

Senator  Xelson.  Xo;  but  those  industrial  workers  have  got  to  get 
raw  materials. 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  To  carry  on  their  manufacturing ;  and  if  they  do 
not  get  to  work  and  earn  something,  where  will  they  be  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  They  will  print  more  money. 

Senator  Nelson.  The  last  that  they  got  printed  was  at  Leipzig,  I 
believe  ? 

JNIr.  Leonaed.  They  may  have  gotten  some  there,  but  now  they 
print  it  in  every  town.  They  have  commandeered  practically  all  of 
the  lithographing  establishments,  and  are  printing  the  money. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Do  you  know  a  man  by  the  name  of  Harold 

Mr.  Leonard.  No,  sir ;  I  do  not. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Are  you  in  position  to  say  what  acreage  was 
planted  in  spring  grain  and  in  spi'ing  wheat  in  1918,  as  compared  with 
ordinary  years? 

Mr.  Leonaed.  The  men  of  whom  I  asked  that  question  down  in  the 
northern  Caucasus,  which  is  a  very  rich  countrj^,  said  that  it  was 
about  75  pel'  cent  they  thought.  The  big  estates  have  been  taken  and 
divided  up.  On  that  stretch  southwest  of  Tsaritzin  there  has  been 
very  little  j^lanted  because  of  the  civil  war — fighting  all  the  time. 
Some  Avas  planted,  but  there  Avas  no  har^-est,  as  there  was  fighting 
all  the  time.  In  Tsaritzin,  they  sent  out  the  women  into  the  fields. 
They  gathered  all  the  women  and  sent  them  out  to  do  Avhat  harvest- 
ing they  could  behind  the  armies.  I  should  say  that  there  is  no  ques- 
tion of  shortage — of  dire  shortage — of  grain  in  Eussia,  provided  they 
can  get  it  to  Moscoav  and  Petrograd ;  provided  they  haA-e  the  trans- 
portation necessary,  or  can  stop  the  fighting  to  let  the  trains  go  by. 

I  Avas  talking  with  a  man  Avho  had  been  detailed  from  a  Petrograd 
factory  to  get  some  wheat  to  Petrograd  last  spring.  At  that  time 
the  railroad  was  not  cut ;  but  his  preparations  for  g;etting  that  wheat 
consisted  of  a  special  train,  carrying  armed  men  Avith  machine  guns. 


They  had  all  the  cars  and  orders  to  get  the  grain,  but  they  had  to 
have  that  protection  in  order  to  get  the  grain  through  to  protect  it 
from  the  other  Bolsheviki. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Here  is  a  statement  which  I  will  read  from  a 

Senator  Steklixg.  From  what  are  you  going  to  read  ? 

Senator  Wolcott.  This  is  from  an  article  written  by  Harold  Kel- 
lock  in  the  Good  Housekeeping  Magazine  of  February  of  this  year, 
entitled  "Aunt  Enuny  wants  to  know  who  is  a  Bolsheviki,  and  why." 
I  read  as  follows : 

But  in  spite  of  tliese  terrible  tilings  the  spring  planting  was  done,  and  a 
bigger  acreage  was  sown  than  at  any  time  since  the  war.  The  peasants  were 
working  for  themselves. 

Xow,  he  must  have  referred  to  the  spring  of  1918.  "What  have 
you  to  say  as  to  the  accuracy  of  that  statement? 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  would  say,  from  my  knowledge,  that  it  is  in- 
accurate. There  are  three  things  opposed  to  it.  In  the  first  place, 
there  has  been  a  lot  of  civil  war — civil  fighting.  The  men  were 
under  arms  and  could  not  work.  In  other  places  where  it  had  been 
planted  the  harvest  could  not  be  reaped  because  of  the  fighting. 

Around  Samara,  which  is  a  fertile  place,  they  could  not  plant 
because  of  lack  of  seed.  The  seed  was  gathered  up  from  old  estates 
and  distributed,  but  because  of  the  famine  the  peasants  took  the  seed 
grain  and  ate  it.  The  fact  is  that  the  peasant  is  a  hard-headed  fel- 
low. He  is  not  sure  who  is  going  to  reap  the  grain  that  he  plants. 
Under  those  conditions  he  does  not  see  any  good  in  jDutting  his  money 
into  the  grain  and  the  seed  and  his  time  into  the  cultivation  of  it. 

Still  another  thing-  is  that  the  peasants  have  more  paper  money 
than  they  want.  They  have  literally  thousands  of  rubles.  Ever 
since  the  war  started,  since  the  prohibition  of  vodka,  the  peasant 
has  been  putting  money  into  the  savings  banks  and  buying  things 
for  his  house  and  buying  phonographs.  Even  in  1916  this  was  true 
out  in  Siberia,  that  a  peasant  who  had  20  acres,  and  licfore  that  had 
planted  and  cultivated  the  whole  20  acres,  was  able  to  make  a  living 
and  had  been  making  a  lot  more  money  than  he  did  before  would 
say,  ''  AAliat  is  the  use  of  planting  20  acres?  I  can  live  just  as  well 
if  I  plant  only  10  acres."  So  that  he  has  been  planting  10  acres  and 
letting-  the  other  10  acres  lie.  Xow,  the  same  thing  holds  much  more 
when  his  crop  is  taken  from  him  at  a  price  which  he  considers  unfair, 
and  when  at  the  same  time  with  the  money  which  he  is  given  in 
return  he  can  not  buy  anything  that  he  wants.  He  is  paid  for  his 
crop  in  paper  money.  He  does  not  know  who  is  going  to  harvest  that 
crop,  anyway;  so  he  is  going  to  plant  just  enough  to  keeji  himself. 

Senator  Wolcott.  You  spoke  of  one  district,  I  think  you  said,  it 
was  down  in  the  Caucasus 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes. 

Senator  Wolcott  (continuing).  Where  there  are  abundant  quan- 
tities of  grain  now,  if  they  could  just  transport  it? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes. 

Senator  Wolcott.  In  the  spring  of  1918  was  that  district  under 
Bolshevik  control  I    . 

Mr.  Leonard.  The  district  was.  The  river  was  in  the  control,  about 
May,  of  the  Czechs.    The  central  part  of  the  Volga  Eiver  was  in  their 


control.  Both  the  mouth  and  the  source  of  the  Volga  are  held  in  the 
control  of  the  Bolsheviki,  but  the  center  was  under  the  control  of  the 
Czechs,  and  they  could  not  get  anything  past.  There  was  a  railroad 
running  from  there  straight  up  to  Moscow,  which  ran  through  the 
Ukraine,  but  that  was  impossible  to  be  used.  There  is  one  other 
road  that  zigzags  up 

Senator  Wolcoit.  I  am  not  concerned  so  much  about  the  trans- 
portation problem.  I  am  trying  to  test  the  accuracy  of  the  statement 
of  this  article  that  the  author  puts  in  this  Good  Housekeeping  Maga- 
zine.   That  is  what  I  am  concerned  about. 

Mr.  Leonaed.  Yes. 

Senator  Wolcott.  You  said  that  the  statement  I  read  was  inaccu- 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Confining  the  statement  to  that  portion  of 
Kussia  that  the  Bolsheviki  control,  would  you  say  that  it  was  just 
mildly  inaccurate  or  that  it  was  grossly  inaccurate? 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  would  say  that  it  was  mildly  inaccurate. 

Senator  Wolcott.  It  is  not  a  gross  misstatement? 

Mr.  Leonard.  No ;  mv  estimate  would  be  75  per  cent.  He  says  more 
than  100  per  cent. 

Senator  Wolcoti\  No  ;  he  does  not  say  that. 

Mr.  Leonard.  He  says  more  than  ever  was  planted  before. 

Senator  Wolcott.  At  any  time  since  the  war. 

Mr.  Leonard.  My  statement  is  that  75  per  cent  has  been  planted. 
He  says  over  100  per  cent,  whereas  I  have  said  75  per  cent. 

Senator  Overman.  Have  you  noticed  since  you  have  been  home  any 
propaganda  of  this  Bolshevik  business  going  on  in  this  country  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  A  week  ago  Sunday  I  went  up  on  the  north  side  of 
Minneapolis,  Avhere  they  advertised  a  play  in  Russian  by  the  Russian 
Slavic  Educational  Society — under  the  auspices  of  that  society.  It 
was  a  little  one-act  play  put  on  by  amateurs,  which  was  a  tirade 
against  capitalism  and  the  injustice  of  capitalism;  and  after  that  a 
man  who  had  been  a  delegate  to  the  so-^'iet  congress  in  New  York 
came  out  and  delivered  a  speech  in  favor  of  Bolshevism,  and 

Senator  Nelson.  Was  that  in  Russian? 

Mr.  Leonard.  In  Russian — and  he  rather  sneeringly  spoke  of  the 
United  States  and  its  President;  but  it  was  an  out-and-out  Bolshevik 
speech,  for  he  said  that  the  Russians  under  the  Bolsheviki  were 
living  far  better  than  they  ever  had  before,  and  he  held  up  the 
Bolshevik  government  as  tlie  ideal  governmert. 

Senator  Nelson.  What  is  his  name? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Gregorin. 

Maj.  HxTMES.  Is  that  his  first  name? 

Mr.  Leonard.  No,  that  is  his  last  name.  I  think  his  first  name 
was  Alex.  The  thing  that  impressed  me  most  was  that  this  audience 
was  fairlv  well  dressed. 

Senator  Hardwick.  How  was  he  received  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  He  received  an  ovation.  The  whole  audience  stood 
in  honor  of  the  fallen  heroes,  Karl  Liebknecht  and  Rosa  Luxem- 


Senator  Wolcott.  In  this  article  that  I  read  from  a  moment  ago. 
I  find  two  pai-agraphs  which  are  calculated  to  leave  the  impression 
on  the  mind  that  the  chief  leaders  in  this  Bolshevik  movement  are  ani- 
mated entirely  by  a  praiseworthy  sentiment  of  love  for  the  nation 
and  desire  to  educate  the  people,  and  that  they  have  no  selfish  pur- 
poses at  all  to  serve.  Xow.  I  want  to  read  you  these  two  para- 
graphs and  see  if  your  observations  over  there  were  such  as  to  lead 
you  to  agree  with  the  impression  that  these  two  paragraphs  make 
upon  the  mind.     [Eeading :] 

Some  reniiirkiible  personalities  have  lipcn  included  nmoiig  these  cninmissars. 
They  work  for  workmen's  salaries,  600  i-ubles  (aliont  ^90)  a  month,  with  an 
extra  allowance  of  100  ruliles  for  each  dependent.  Thus  Lenine,  wliose  wife  is 
employed  in  the  department  of  educatiim.  Rets  600  rubles,  and  Trotsky,  who 
has  a  wife  and  tlnve  children,  prets  000  i-ubles.  Both  Lenine  and  Tchieherin, 
the  Commissar  for  Foreif;"n  Affairs,  come  of  old  well-to-do  Russian  families. 
Trotsky  is  the  son  of  a  prosperous  .Jewish  merchant.  In  Peti-o.srad  Trotsky 
and  his  family  lived  in  a  little  garret  room  in  Smolny  Institute,  the  soviet 

Tchieherin  serveil  as  a.  diplomat  under  the  Czar  before  he  became  a  revolu- 
tionary Socialist.  While  commissar  of  foreign  affairs  in  Petrograd,  he  lived 
in  a  shabby  little  lodging  liouse  in  the  working  qimrter.  and  members  of  the 
American  Red  Cross  mission  who  had  occasion  to  call  upon  him  at  his  office 
would  find  him  transacting  affairs  of  state  clad  in  a  soiled  sweater  and  baggj- 
old  trousers. 

Xow,  that  conveys  to  my  mind  the  impression  that  these  men 
were  poor  men.  and,  so  to  speak,  hugged  their  poverty,  notwithstand- 
ing the,y  were  in  places  of  power. 

]Mr.  Leonard.  It  is  both  true  and  untrue.  They  are  very  demo- 
cratic and  do  not  care  hoAv  they  dress,  and  they  do  not  care  in  what 
kind  of  places  they  work.  But  Lenine  in  Moscow  has  good  quar- 
ters. The  Bolsheviki  have  taken  over  the  best  hotel  in  town  nnd  get 
it  rent  free.  Trotsky  lives  in  the  next  best  hotel.  They  all  have 
Peerless  automobiles,  those  Avho  have  not  Packards. 

Senator  "Wolcott.  They  are  not  living  in  garrets,  then? 

IMr.  Li:nxAKD.  When  working  they  can  not  keep  a  room  in  order: 
so  that  this  room,  after  two  weeks  under  Bolshevik  rule,  would'  look 
like  a  room  in  a  svreat  shop:  and  in  the  next  room,  if  there  was  a 
pre&s  of  work,  Lenine  and  Trotsky  Avould  live,  night  after  night. 
So  that  is  true.  But  they  live  pretty  well,  aside  from  that.  As  to 
what  he  says  about  their  being  idealists,  and  all  of  that.  I  think  most 
people  in  Eussia  agree  that  Lenine  is  actuated  entirely  by  ideal  mo- 
tives. You  can  not  agree  with  them;  but  some  of  the  leaders- 
most  of  the  leaders — are,  the  people  say.  But  most  of  their  workers, 
most  of  their  associates,  are  not  idealists.  This  statement  was  made 
to  me  by  a  man  who  had  been  in  Eussia,  and  a  man  who  was  sup- 
posed to  know.  He  says  that  To  per  cent  of  the  leaders  are  honest. 
They  are  fanatics,  and  you  can  not  agree  with  what  they  are  doing: 
but  75  per  cent  of  the  leaders  are  honest.  But  7.")  per  cent  of  the  men 
are  dishonest. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Are  you  in  a  position  to  entertain  and  to  express 
a  reliable  opinion,  to  make  a  reliable  statement,  as  to  whether  this 
assertion  that  they  are  working  and  getting  only  600  rubles  or  900 
rubles  a  month  is  true.     Is  that  all  they  are  given? 

]Mr.  Leonaed.  That  is  true,  officially.  It  has  since  been  raised 
because  of  the  high  cost  of  living.     Lenine  is  now  getting  1.200 


rubles.  That  Avas  raisecl  by  act  of  law.  That  is  Avhat  they  are 
making  officially.  What  some  of  them  get  in  other  ways  is'  hun- 
dreds of  thousands.     Others  do  not  take  a  cent  in  that  wav. 

Senator  Wolcott.  It  is  well  known  that  they  are  getting  a  lot  on 
the  side? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Some  of  then^  are.  Others  are  not.  This  man  who 
was  in  jail  with  me,  Makrofsky,  was  getting  his  1,000  rubles  a 
month,  and  that  was  all,  and  there  was  absolutely  no  graft ;  w'hereas 
an  old  Jewish  fish  merchant  who  was  doA\-n  iii  Xavorossisk  made 
himself  minister  of  finance,  and  it  was  not  many  weeks  before  he 
sent  his  Avife  out  of  the  country  with  millions. 

Senator  Wolcott.  He  was  not  an  idealist? 

]Mr.  Leoxaed.  He  was  not  an  idealist. 

Senator  Wolcott.  He  was  not  restricted  to  his  1,000  rubles  a 
month  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Xo. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Here  is  this  statement  [reading]  : 

For  the  first  time  a  real  school  system  has  been  formed,  and  everj'  child  in 
Soviet  Russia  goes  to  school. 

Mr.  Leoxaed.  That  is  the  best  department  they  have. 

Senator  Wolcott.  The  schools  are  running,  are  they? 

Mr.  Leonard.  They  are,  in  a  differeiit  fashion.  Everything  is 
State.  They  do  not  allow  the  private  schools  or  private  gymnasia 
to  function  any  more.  They  are  trying  to  put  on  great  reforms  in 
feeding  the  children  in  the  schools,  and  in  playgrounds,  and  so  forth. 
On  the  other  hand,  they  put  into  the  faculties,  of  their  schools  jani- 
tors and  washv'omen,  and  let  them  have  a  vote  in  determining  the 
curricula  of  the  institutions.  They  have  clone  away  with  the  require- 
ments for  admission  to  the  universities,  because  they  say  that  vi^orks 
only  to  the  good  of  the  capitalist  class.  Only  those  who  come  from 
the  capitalist  class  can  comply  with  the  requirements;  so  they  say, 
■■  We  must  admit  anybody  who  comes  to  the  university,  equalty." 

They  have  a  big  program  and  are  doing  things.  / 

Senator  Wolcott.  I  Avas  just  going  to  ask,  are  they  doing  things? 

Mr.  Leonard.  In  several  places  they  are. 

Senator  Wolcott.  In  other  words,  they  are  teaching  the  three  Ks, 
anrl  their  educational  program  seems  to  support  their  theory,  very 

Mr." Leonard.  Yes:  but  if  I  may  be  permitted  to  say  this  here,  the 
thing  that  this  man  said  in  his  speech  in  Minneapolis,  this  Russian, 
was  that  people  accused  the  Russians  of  being  uneducated.  "  Tkit," 
he  said,  '"  I  call  that  man  educated  who  has  class  consciousness." 

Senator  Nej^son.  Was  that  at  north  Minneapolis? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes. 

Senator  Nelson.  Was  it  on  the  east  or  the  west  side? 

Mr.  Leonard.  It  Avas  on  the  Avest  side. 

Senator  Nelson.  Were  there  many  there? 

Mr.  Leonard.  About  300. 

Senator  Nelson.  What  AAas  the  character  of  the  people  Avho  Avere 
there?     Were  they  Russians? 

Mr.  Leonard.  They  are  all  Russians.  The  Avhole  thing  Avas  in  the 
lano'uage.  And  that  is  one  thing  they  are  trying  to  do  in  this 
school,  nahielA-.  to  inculcate  class  consciousness. 


Senator  Overman.  Now,  carrying  out  the  idea  of  this  revolution, 
3'ou  have  told  us  about  one  meeting;  do  you  know  of  any  other 
propaganda  in  this  country  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  No;  I  know  of 

Senator  Overjian.  In  magazines  and  papers? 

Mr.  Leonard.  None ;  except  that  the  New  Eepublic  print,  it  seems 
to  me,  is  as  one-sided  as  the  stuff  of  the  so-called  tools  of  capitalism 

Senator  Overman.  This  article  from  which  Senator  Wolcott  has 
read  here,  does  not  that  sound  a  little  bit  like  it  might  be 

Mr.  Leonard.  It  seems  to  me  too  optimistic.  The  trouble  is  that 
a  good  many  of  these  writers  go  to  Petrograd  and  Moscow  and  meet 
the  most  intelligent  Bolshevik  leaders,  who  make  themselves  very 
nice  to  them,  ancl  they  can  make  a  very  good  impression,  because  they 
are  educated.  They  talk  about  this  great  ideal,  and  nobody  can  op- 
pose them.  Then  those  people  come  home  and  say  that  it  is  a 
fine  program.  I  know  one  magazine  writer  that  came  over  there 
and  was  personally  conducted  through  some  of  the  prisons,  and  came 
out  in  an  article  saying  that  the  prisons  were  better  than  they  had 
been,  and  were  not  bad.  Well,  I  was  never  personally  conducted 
around,  but  the  only  good  things  that  I  saw  were  what  was  left  over 
from  the  old  regime,  in  the  prisons. 

A.nd  this  same  writer  met  Al.  Peters,  "  one  of  the  nicest  men  she 
ever  met."  He  was  assigned  as  interpreter  for  the  Bolsheviki.  He 
was  a  man  who  was  shooting  people  without  trial  all  the  time. 

Senator  Nelson.  He  was  the  lord  high  executioner? 

Mr.  Leonard.  He  was  the  man  who  told  the  Norwegian  attache 
that  he  was  going  to  shoot  us.  He  said  that  we  were  all  counter- 
revolutionists.  He  said  that  without  looking  at  our  papers.  When 
we  got  back  these  papers  had  not  been  touched. 

Senator  Nelson.  He  AViis  the  kind  of  man  that  Byron  speaks  of 
in  his  poem  "  The  Coreair,"  of  whom  he  says : 

He  was  tlie  mildest-mannered  man  that  ever  scuttled  ship  or  cut  a  throat. 


Senator  OvER:\tAN.  Their  government  looks  prettj'  good  on  paper, 
but  their  actions  do  not  correspond  with  their  theory.  It  was  testi- 
fied here  this  morning  that  these  fellows  feel  that  they  have  a  right 
to  do  as  they  please  and  take  what  they  please,  and  do  as  they-please 
generally.     Do  you  believe  that? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Do  I  believe  in  that? 

Senator  Overjian.  Do  you  believe  that  that  is  so  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes;  that  is  their  program. 

Senator  Nelson.  Did  you  come  across  Albert  Rhys  Williams  over 
there  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  No,  sir. 

Senator  Nelson.  You  never  met  him? 

Mr.  Leonard.  No,  sir ;  I  knew-  that  he  was  there ;  but,  as  I  say,  I 
was  in  the  provinces  most  of  the  time. 

Senator  Nelson.  Did  you  know  anything  of  his  activities? 

jMr.  Leonard.  Nothing;  no,  sir. 

Senator  Nelson.  You  lost  a  good  deal. 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  guess  I  did. 


Senator  Wolcott.  Do  you  know  anything  about  their  program 
looking  forward  to  socialization  of  women? 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  was  in  Samara  at  the  time  that  came  out  in  the 
papers,  and  I  have  in  my  possession,  some  place,  their  placards  deny- 
ing that.  They  say  that  is  not  true.  They  say  that  was  put  up 
by  the  counter-revolutionary  element  in  order  to  discredit  them,  and 
that  it  was  done  by  a  group  of  anarchists  who  have  since  been 
arrested  by  the  Bolsheviki. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Do  you  know  Avhether  that  placard  was  put  up 
in  their  buildings ;  or  have  you  knowledge  of  that  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  have  no  knowledge  on  that  subject.  It  was  not 
put  up  in  other  places  where  I  had  been. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Was  that  the  only  thing  you  saw  over  tliere  that 
indicated,  or  that  gave  any  justification  for  the  idea,  that  tlie  so- 
called  program  for  the  socialization  of  women  was  in  their  minds? 
Was  that  the  only  piece  of  evidence  you  saw  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  That  was  the  only  piece  of  evidence  I  saw.  They 
are  aiming  toward  free  love.  They  are  doing  away  with  the  marriage 
ceremony,  and  they  have,  of  course,  adopted  a  civil  ceremony;  and 
in  some  places  they  have  it  for  a  term  of  years. 

Senator  WoLcott.  I  want  your  opinion  on  that,  because  this  writer 
winds  up  with  an  article  and  says  that  after  all  the  test  of  it  will 
be  this,  "  How  will  it  ailect  the  Ijabies  of  young  married  folks,  and 
folks  who  do  not  get  along  very  well?  "  You  say  this  is  a  part  of 
the  doctrine  of  these  leaders,  that  they  want  to  reform  the  marriage 
relation  and  make  terms  of  years  for  the  married  state,  and  inaugu- 
rate free  love? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes ;  that  is  in  their  program. 

Senator  Overman.  How  did  you  find  their  morals  there,  among 
the  men  and  women  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  They  have  a  different  moral  standard  from  what 
we  have  in  America. 

Senator  Overjian.  Are  they  bad? 

Mr.  Leonard.  They  have  more  of  the  oriental  attitude. 

Senator  Xelson.  That  man,  Maxim  Gorky,  I  believe  his  name  is, 
whom  they  have  taken  into  the  fold,  is  about  as  immoral  as  they  can 
make  them. 

Mr.  Leonard.  There  was  great  rejoicing  when  he  came  back  to 
the  fold. 

Senator  Xelson.  He  is  bad  enough  to  leaven  the  whole  Bolshevik 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  do  not  think  they  need  much  leavening. 

Senator  Overman.  But  they  rejoiced  when  he  returned? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Nelson.  He  was  over  here  in  New  York  for  a  while. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Who  is  his  assistant? 

Mr.  Leonard. —■ 

Senator  Wolcott.  Commissar  of  education? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes.  For  a  time  he  withdrew  from  them  and  was 
bitterly  opposed  to  them,  and  scattered  editorials  against  them,  and 
then  he  came  back. 

Senator  Nelson.  My  recollection  is  that  he  was  over  here  in  New 
York  a  while,  and  that  he  left  the  country  in  disgrace,  because  they 
did  not  approve  of  his  having  a  bereft  wife  with  him. 


Senator  Overtax.  Do  you  know  anything  about  their  taking  over 
a  lot  of  young  girls  in  a  seminary  and  putting  the  Bolshevik  soldiers 
in  with  them ; 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  never  knew  of  that. 

Senator  Overman.  Is  there  anything  else,  ^lajor? 

ilr.  Leonard.  I  will  say  that  the  program  and  the  spirit  of  the 
Bolshevik  party  i.b  directly  opposed  to  religion  and  to  what  we  know 
as  the  home. 

Senator  "Wolcott.  "What  is  their  argument  for  declaiming  against 
the  home? 

Mr.  Leonard.  They  say  the  home  does  not  give  the  children  a  fair 
chance.  They  have  not  had  a  happy  home  experience,  and  those 
who  have  lived  in  the  poorest  quarters  say  it  does  not  give  every- 
body a  fair  chance;  that  everybody  ought  to  start  e(jnal,  and  the 
children  ought  to  be  taken  and  put  in  government  institutions  and 
given  the  same  education.  They  say  this  has  grown  up  from  capi- 
talism :  that  true  love  does  not  enter  into  marriage ;  that  now  it  is  a 
sj'stem  of  barter  for  social  position  and  for  wealth,  and  all  of  that,  so 
they  are  going  to  have  love,  and  provide  for  the  children  in  govern- 
ment institutions. 

Senator  Wolcott.  That  is  to  say,  the  children  will  not  grow  up  in 
home  surroundings  * 

Mr.  Leonard.  No. 

Senator  AVoLcorr.  If  they  cari-y  out  their  program,  then,  the  future 
men  and  women  will  have  no  recollection  of  home  life  or  of  the  home 
fireside,  with  their  parents  there. 

Mr.  Leonard.  Xo;  the_y  are  opposed  to  that. 

Maj.  Humes.  The  theoi'y  is  that  the  children  are  to  be  taken  care 
of  by  the  State. 

]\Ir.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Xklson.  They  are  to  be  nationalized? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir. 

Maj.  HriiEs.  Yes;  nationalized  in  that  way. 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Xelson.  And  they  do  not  believe  in  marriage,  because  it 
is  a  part  of  the  creed  of  the  capitalist  class,  is  not  that  it? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Overman.  Are  they  in  favor  of  divorce? 

jMr.  Leonard.  It  is  very  easy  to  divorce. 

Senator  Overman.  They  do  not  have  to  go  to  Reno?  They  have 
no  Eeno? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Xo. 

Senator  Xelson.  You  do  not  have  to  go  into  court  to  get  a  divorce. 
The  man  just  makes  a  declaration  or  writing  to  the  woman  and  says, 
"'  I  divorce  you,"  and  that  is  all  there  is  to  it. 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir. 

vSenator  Overman.  Has  the  woman  the  same  right  to  say  that  she 
divorces  the  man? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Overman.  So  the  women  have  got  equal  rights  over  there? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes. 

Senator  Sterling.  Do  you  think,  Mr.  Leonard,  that  these  prin- 
ciples appeal  to  the  ordinary  Russian  peasant  very  much,  or  is  this 
the  doctrine  of  the  leaders  who  are  pre:iching  it? 


Mr.  Leonard.  I  do  not  think  that  it  appeals  to  the  Eussian  peas- 
ant ;  but  the  unrest  has  come  from  the  peasants  who  have  been  abroad 
in  the  industrial  cities  in  Eussia,  where  they  have  had  poor  surround- 
ings and  have  been  ill  paid,  and  where  "the  propaganda  has  lieen 
going  on  among  them  for  years,  and  they  have  been  taught  that  they 
are  the  degraded  class,  the  exploited  class,  all  of  them.  So  there  is 
where  the  ti^ouble  is  coming  from,  and  from  the  industrial  workmen, 
rather  than  from  the  peasants.  The  peasant  had  one  need.  The 
peasant  really  needed  land,  and  wanted  it,  and  when  he  got  land  he 
was  satisfied. 

Senator  Xelsox.  They  have  one  advantage  now,  that  they  do  not 
have  to  go  to  Nevada  or  any  of  these  western  cities  to  get  a  divorce. 
They  can  get  it  at  home. 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes. 

Senator  Overman.  What  about  the  churches?  Do  they  attend 
their  churches? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes ;  the  peasants  still  attend  the  churches.  But  the 
church,  of  course,  has  been  disestablished,  and  the  Bolsheviki  are 
carrying  on  an  endless  propaganda  against  the  priesthood,  against 
the  clergy,  and  they  are  playing  up  everything  they  can  against  the 
clergy,  and  they  publish  tliat  in  the  papers. 

Senator  Overiman.  Can  you  give  any  reason  for  that? 

Mr.  Leonard.  To  '  discredit  the  church  because  the  church  has 
been  a  department  of  the  state.  It  has  been  a  very  conservative  in- 
fluence and  has  not  given  the  spiritual  leadership  to  the  people  that 
the  people  needed.  They  call  that  party  opposed  to  the  church  the 
Black  Hundred. 

Senator  Wolcott.  I  supjDOse  they  recognize  the  psychological  fact 
that  if  thej'  can  destroy  the  faith  of  any  people  they  get  the  people 
into  a  condition  where  the}^  can  overthrow  anything  they  want  to 
overthrow  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes;  and  that  is  just  it.  The  peasant  did  not  know 
what  he  Avas  fighting  for  .in  this  war.  He  Avas  fighting  for  one 
reason,  because  the  Czar  told  him  his  duty  called  him ;  and  the  Czar 
and  the  church  were  very  closely  united,  and  when  the  Czar  was  over- 
thrown most  of  their  faith  fell  aAvay.  If  now  the  Bolsheviki  can 
discredit  the  church,  the  poor  peasant  is  absolutely  helpless.  He  has 
nothing  to  cling  to. 

Sena^tor  Wolcott.  He  is  driftwood,  so  to  speak? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  "Wolcoit.  He  must  move  the  Avaj'  his  leaders  Avant  to  move 

Mr.  Leonard.  Absolutely. 

Senator  Nelson.  The  Eussian  Church  Avas  the  backbone  of  the  old 
Government,  and  Avas  the  one  connecting  link  that  kept  the  peasants 
attached  to  the  GoA-ernment,  Avas  it  not,  to  a  large  extent? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes,  sir ;  to  a  very  great  extent. 

Senator  Nelson.  Has  the  church  lost  the  influence  that  it  had 
in  the  past  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  It  has  lost  its  influence  among  the  industrial  classes. 

Senator  Nelson.  But  among  the  peasants? 

Mr.  Leonard.  The  peasants  still  go  to  church.  Where  their  priest 
has  been  bad,  they  have  gotten  a  new  priest  there,  but  they  have  not 

85723—19 15 


turned  agiiinst  the  church,  and  even  as  hxte  as  August  there  was  a 
decree  gotten  out  i:)i-ohibiting  the  hanging  of  icons  in  any  public 
building  or  any  building  belonging  to  the  state.  Before  the  war 
with  Germany,  in  every  building  there  was  a  little  icon  hanging  up 
in  the  corner.  Down  in  the  department  of  the  Bolshevik  Cossacks 
they  still  had  all  their  icons  hanging  up,  because  they  said  they  were 
called  for.  The  soldier  commissar  tried  to  make  them  put  them  out, 
and  they  said  they  could  not  do  it,  for  if  the  Cossacks  believed  that 
they  were  anti-Christian  they  would  not  have  their  support  at  all. 

Senator  Xelso>'.  In  the  great  chaos  that  prevailed  after  the  death 
of  the  imbecile  son  of  Ivan  the  Terrible  there  was  an  interregnum 
of  29  years  in  Eussia,  and  it  was  through  the  church  that  they 
finally  gathered  themselves  together  and  elected  INIichael  Romanoff 
as  the  Czar,  supplanting  the  old  line  of  rulers,  and  it  was  through 
the  church  that  they  succeeded  in  rallying  the  new  government 
together.  Xow,  do  you  not  believe  that  in  the  pi'esent  emergency  the 
church  will  be  a  great  help 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  have  faith  to  belie ve- 

Senator  Xelson  (continuing).  In  the  rallying  and  gathering  to- 
gether of  tlie  Eussian  people  against  this  Bolshevik  system? 

Mr.  Leonard.  If  the  church  can  help  itself  and  produce  a  leader 
who  can  unite  Eussia. 

Senator  Xelson.  You  recollect  that  in  the  French  Eevolution  they 
attempted  to  destroy  all  religion,  and  the  church  altogether,  but  they 
failed  in  it ;  and  they  will  fail  here  in  making  war  on  the  Eussian 
Church.     Do  you  not  think  they  will  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  That  is  my  opinion. 

Senator  Nelson.  The  peasants  and  the  church  and  the  Cossacks 
and  the  conservative  element  will  get  together,  and  inside  of  six 
months  they  will  eliminate  that  Bolsheviki  crowd? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Once  the}'  can  all  get  together.    That  is  the  question. 

Senator  Overman.  ]\Ir.  Leonard,  hoAv  many  of  this  middle  class— 
the  bourgeoisie,  as  you  call  them — have  fled  Eu.ssia  on  account  of  this 
terrorism  ? 

■]\Ir.  Leonard.  I  could  not  estimate  it,  but  a  gi'eat  number.  These 
Scandinavian  countries  are  filled  with  them.  They  have  not  fled 
Russia,  but  fled  Bolshe-^ik  Eussia.  Kiev  was  crowded  with  them, 
and  Eostov.  and  the  territory  of  the  Don  Cossacks;  and  then,  to  a 
somewhat  smaller  extent,  the  northern  Caucasus,  after  the  anti- 
Bolshevik  forces  cleared  out  of  the  place. 

Senator  Oversfan.  When  you  left  there  what  was  the  difference  in 
the  population  of  Moscow  from  what  it  was  when  you  first  went 
there  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  do  not  know  about  ]Moscow.  I  was  brought  up 
under  guard. 

Senator  Overman.  How  about  Petrograd? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Petrograd  has  a  population  of  about  half  a  million 

Senator  Overman.  How  much  had  it  in  normal  times  I 

Mr.  Leonard.  Away  over  a  million. 

Senator  Overman.  It  has  been  stated  here  that  it  was  nearly 

Mr.  Leonard.  Yes. 


Senator  Nelson.  In  normal  times  it  had  about  2,000,000? 

Mr.  Leoxaed.  Yes ;  the  population  was  told  me  bv  several  men. 

Senator  Nelson.  At  Moscow  they  had  about  500,000  or  600,000  in 
normal  times? 

Mr.  Leonard.  I  do  not  know.  I  should  say  the  population  was 
lario'er  than  that. 

Senator  Steeling.  What  has  become  of  some  of  the  revolutionary 
leaders  there — the  leaders  in  the  Duma  at  the  time  of  the  breaking 
out  of  the  revolution — like  Miliukoff  ? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Miliukoff  was  down  in  the  Ukraine,  down  in  Kiev. 
One  was  down  with  the  Don  Cossacks,  with  Gen.  Krostoff.  I  under- 
stand they  have  scattered  around.  Another  remained  in  tlie  north- 
ern Caucasus. 

Senator  Overman.  What  became  of  these  great  generals? 

Mr.  Leonard.  Brussiloff  was  wounded,  while  lying  in  bed,  by  street 
fighting.    Alexieff  died  last  August,  and  Demetrius 

Senator  Overman.  What  became  of  Brussiloff?  , 

Mr.  Leonard.  He  was  wounded,  and  I  have  heard  the  rumor  that 
he  has  since  been  killed. 

Senator  Overman.  What  became  of  Korniloff? 

Mr.  Leonard.  He  was  killed. 

Senator  Overman.  Where  is  Kerensky? 

Mr.  Leonard.  He  is  over  in  England  some  place,  is  he  not? 

Senator  Overman.  How  about  Nicholas — what  became  of  him? 

Mr.  Leonard.  He  was  down  in  the  Crimea  when  the  Ukraine  was 
taken  by  a  force  of  Germans  and  Austrians.  I  think  he  is  still  in 
the  Crimea — still  in  Kiev.  The  Germans  said  they  were  going  to  take 
him  a  prisoner  of  war,  but  he  Avas  in  the  Crimea  at  that  time.  Since 
that  I  have  heard  nothing. 

Senator  Nelson.  Wliat  became  of  Nicholas? 

Mr.  Leonard.  The  grand  duke?  He  is  the  man  I  Avas  just  speak- 
ing of. 

Senator  Overman.  He  was  one  of  the  greatest  generals  the  war 
has  produced,  in  my  opinion. 

Senator  Nelson.  Yes;  he  was  a  great  general. 

Senator  Oatseman.  What  has  become  of  these  first  revolutionary 

Mr.  Leonard.  They  have  gone  down  to  these  other  regions  which  I 
have  named,  where  the  class  is  bourgeois.  Some  have  gone  out 
into  the  Scandinavian  coimtries,  but  very  few.  There  are  none  of 
them  in  power.    Many  of  them  are  in  Siberia. 

Senator  Overman.  The  banks  have  all  been  taken  over,  have  they 

Mr.  Leonard.  The  banks  have  all  been  nationalized,  and  all  the 
private  banks  have  been  reopened  as  branches  of  the  national  bank. 
When  I  left  all  bank  deposits  had  been  arrested :  and  then  for  a  time 
you  could  get  out  100  rubles  a  month  on  check,  which  was  later 
raised  to  about  a  thousand  rubles  a  month  by  check,  and  then  the 
people  objected  to  that.  Of  course  there  were  no  deposits  under  such 
conditions,  and  then  they  put  in  a  condition  that  of  any  money  you 
deposited  after  a  certain  date  you  could  draw  as  much  as  you 
wanted.  Then  people  deposited  money,  but  when  they  tried  to  draw 
it  out  the  banks  said  they  did  not  have  any  money,  which  was  the 



Senator  Overman.  I  suppose  everj'body  that  had  money  on  de- 
posit took  it  out  ? 

Mr.  Leoicakd.  Most  of  them  could  not  get  it.  The  turnover  came 
too  quick. 

Senator  Xelsox.  Tliey  commandeered  all  the  money? 

iMr.  Leoxaed.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Overman.  Did  you  hear  any  talk  there  about  doing  away 
Avith  all  money  and  not  having  any  money  at  all? 

Sir.  Lkoxard.  Xo;  but  they  might  as  atcU  do  something  like  tliat, 
because  the  present  money  does  not  amount  to  anything.  In  each 
little  district  there  are  a  dozen  making  counterfeit  money.  Some  of  it 
is  made  in  Austria,  some  is  made  in  Germany,  and  a  great  deal  is 
made  in  Eussia  itself. 

Senator  Xelson.  No  specie  circulates  there? 

Mr.  Leoxard.  Xo,  sir. 

ilaj.  Ht::mes.  Gentlemen,  I  have  here  for  the  record — I  do  not  know 
whether  you  want  it  all  read  or  not — an  excerpt  from  the  official 
Bolshevik  newspaper  detailing  their  state  budget  for  the  second  half 
of  the  year  1918,  showing  that  the  total  amount  of  expenditures  of 
the  republic  for  1918  is  estimated  at  48.000,000.000  rubles,  or  about 
$23,000,000,000.    Do  you  care  to  have  it  all  read? 

Senator  Overman.  No;  just  put  it  in  the  record. 

(The  matter  referred  to  is  as  follows:) 


The  work  in  connection  with  the  drawing  up  and  examinntion  of  the  budget 
of  the  Republic  for  the  second  half  of  1938  and  the  general  balancing  of  same 
has  been  completed. 

The  total  amount  of  State  expenditures  for  the  euri-ent  ha!f-vear  is  estimated 
at  29,000,000.(100  (17,000,000,000,  or  70  per  cent  above  the  previous  lialf  year). 
The  total  amount  of  expenditudrcs  of  the  Republic  for  1918  is  estimjitetl  at 
40,000,000,000  rubles. 

The  first  place,  in  proportion  to  the  amount  of  expenditures,  is  occupied  b.v 
the  military  rommissariat,  the  total  amount  of  the  expenditures  of  which 
!s  set  at  9,500,000,000  (7,700,000,000  ordinary  expenditures  and  1,700,- 
000,000  e>:tra(jrdinary).  Comparing  this  with  the  total  for  the  0rst  half-year 
(5,800,000.000).  the  expenditures  of  the  commissariat  increased  by  3,700,000,000, 
that  is  63  per  cent. 

The  second  iilaee  is  held  by  the  expenditures  in  connection  with  the  organiza- 
tion of  economic  and  trading  conditions  of  the  State  and  the  exploitation  of 
the  State  enterprises.  The  expenditures  are  distributed  among  the  depart- 
ments as  follows :  To  the  commissariat  of  ways  of  communication  and  the 
chief  management  of  waterways  is  apportioned  4.2  billion  rubles ;  to  the  com- 
mittee of  the  State  constructions — 1  billion ;  to  the  Supreme  Council  of  State 
Economics — 1.6  billions ;  and  800,000,000  for  operating  expenses  and  for  the. 
cover  of  excess  expenditures  in  connection  with  the  nationalization  of  enter- 
prises. The  total  amount  of  expenditures  of  this  character  entered  in  the 
budget  is  estimated  at  approximately  8,000,000,000  (27  per  cent  of  the  total 
amount  of  expenditures). 

The  following  place  in  the  budget  is  occupied  by  the  expenditures  for  edu- 
cational purposes.  In  comparison  with  the  first  half-year  the  apportionment 
for  the  commissariat  of  national  education  is  5  times  greater  and  is  estimated 
at  2.4  billions  (against  0.5  billion  for  the  first  half-year.)  In  general  the  total 
amount  of  expenditures  for  educational  purposes  reaches  12.5  per  cent  of  the 
total  budget. 

The  fourth  place  in  the  budget  (10  per  cent  of  the  budget)  Is  occupied  by 
expenditures  which  are  created  by  the  extraordinary  economic  conditions  of 
the  nation,  i.  e.,  expenditures  foi'  organization  of  food  supply.  For  this  pur- 
pose, according  to  the  estimate  of  the  commissariat  of  food  supply,  the  latter 


is  apportioned  for  the  current  half  year  3.1  billions — that  is,  two  and  one-half 
times  move  than  in  the  first  half  year. 

Especially  noteAvorthy,  in  comparison  with  the  budgets  of  previous  years, 
are  the  separate  estimates  for  health  conservation,  social  insurance,  regulation 
of  labor  and  insi'iranc«  of  same.  Are  insurance,  and  for  work  in  <M)nnection 
with  different  nationalities.  The  total  expenditures,  according  to  these  esti- 
mates, equal  1,000,000,000  (3.5  per  cent),  having  increased  five  times  in  com- 
parison with  the  amount  of  the  first  half  year. 

Other  departments  in  proportion  to  their  expenditures  are  as  follow.s :  The 
Coirmissariat  of  Finance,  1.2  billions;  the  Commissariat  of  Interior,  618,000,000; 
the  Commissariat  of  Justice,  236,000,000;  State  Control,  64,000,000;  the  Cen- 
tral Shitistical  Department,  48,000,000;  the  Commissariat  of  the  Property  of 
the  Kepublic,  40,000,000 ;  the  all-Russian  central  executive  committee  of  Soviets, 
32,000,000;  and,  final].>%  the  last  place  is  occupied  by  the  Commissariat  of  For-  Relations,  with  an  apportionment  of  5,000,000  roubles. 

AVith  all  its  advantages  the  budget  has  vital  defects,  namely,  its  deficit ;  the 
total  of  State  revenues  for  the  second  half  year  is  estimated  at  about  12.7 
billion  rubles.  Consequently  the  difference  between  the  expenditures  and  the 
revenue  is  above  16.000,000.000.  Takins  into  consideration  the  fact  that  out  of 
the  12.7  billion  rubles  of  the  State  revenue,  10,000,000,000  rubles  are  derived 
from  special  taxes,  that  the  ordinary  revenue  of  2.7  billions  Is  only  approxi- 
mately estimated,  and  that  according  to  the  first  half  year  the  income  does 
not  come  up  to  expectations  entertained  when  compiling  the  budget  of  reve- 
nues, the  deficit  of  the  budget  appears  to  be  still  of  a  most  serious  character. 


(The  witness  was  sworn  by  the  chairman.) 

Senator  Overman.  Where  are  you  from? 

Mr.  Storey.  Urbana,  111. 

Senator  Overman.  How  long  have  you  been  back  from  Russia? 

Mr.  Storet.  I  got  back  in  AugTist. 

Senator  Overman.  How  long  were  you  in  Russia? 

Mr.  Storet.  About  a  year  and  four  months. 

Senator  Overman.  What  position  did  you  hold  over  there  ? 

Mr.  Storey.  I  went  over  as  the  representative  of  the  American 
Young  Men's  Christian  Association.  I  was  in  European  Russia  for 
about  eight  months  and  in  Siberia  for  the  balance  of  the  time,  in 
charge  of  the  work  there. 

Senator  Overman.  Go  on  and  state  in  your  own  way  the  conditions 
over  there. 

Mr.  Storey.  The  impression  made  upon  me  when  I  went  into 
Russia  was  cumulative,  to  the  effect  that  we  were  entering  a  country 
which  had  been  very  seriously  worn  out  by  the  war.  The  condi- 
tions in  Siberia  were  not  so  bad. 

Senator  Nelson.  Did  you  enter  from  the  Siberian  end  ? 

Mr.  S'torey.  I  entered  from  Vladivostok. 

Maj.  Humes.  Where  were  you  with  reference  to  the  revolution? 
^Ya.s  it  before  the  Bolshevik  revolution? 

Mr.  Storey.  It  was  after  the  March  revolution,  yes;  but  as  you 
got  further  into  Russia  it  became  more  and  mere  apparent  tliat  you 
were  in  a  country  that  had  been  at  war  and  the  resources  of  which 
had  been  seriously  drained. 

Entering  Moscow  early  in  November,  I  was  there  daring  the  strug- 
gle between  the  cadets  and  the  supporters  of  the  Kerensky  regime 
generally  against  the  Bolshevist  movement.  The  fighting  there 
lasted  for  about  a  week.  It  wavered  back  and  forth.  Troops  which 
were  bronp-ht  in  from  the  outside  to  help  support  the  government 


were  in  almost  every  case  turned  to  the  support  of  the  Bolslievist 
group,  and  finally,  about  a  week  after  the  fightinp;  started,  and  after 
considerable  damage  was  done  and  perhaps  2,000  lives  had  been  lost, 
the  Bolsheviki  were  able  to  take  command  of  the  city. 

Senator  Steeling.  What  influences  were  brought  to  bear  on  those 
troops  to  win  them  over  to  the  support  of  the  Bolshevik  movements 

Mr.  Storet.  My  judgment  there  is  that  they  probably  had  been  won 
over  before  they  were  brought  into  reach  of  the  city.  Certainly  the 
morale  of  the  entire  Eussian  Army  had  been  thoroughly  rottecl  out 
long  before  any  American  visitors  reached  Russia.  Mj  own  judg- 
ment is  that  the  damage  had  already  been  done  before  the  first  revolu- 
tion took  place,  and  that  at  no  time,  probably,  after  the  fall  of  191(1 
was  there  any  expectation  that  the  old  army  could  be  rehabilitated 
and  made  into  an  effective  fighting  force  for  any  of  the  causes  or 
appeals  which  could  then  be  made  to  them.  Certainly  at  no  time 
after  the  Your.o,'  Men's  Christian  Association  became  active  in  the 
field  Mas  there  any  such  opportunity. 

Senator  SteeluvG.  That  disaffection  among  the  troops  at  that 
early  tirhe  was  clue  to  Bolshevik  propaganda? 

Mr.  Stoeey.  No;  it  was  not,  altogether.  It  was  due  to  the  circum- 
stances of  their  life.  They  were  poorly  armed,  poorly  equipped,  and 
they  did  not  know  why  they  were  fighting  or  what  they  were  fighting; 
for,  particularly  after  they  had  lost  confidence  in  their  leaders,  as 
the.y  did.  The  stories  of  corruption  of  the  old  regime  during  the  war 
almost  paralleled  anything  that  I  have  met  with  since.  The  fall  of 
Riga,  I  have  heard  it  said  many  times,  Avas  the  result  of  a  dicker  for 
millions  of  rubles'  worth  of  supplies. 

Senator  Steeling.  The  old  regime  having  fallen  and  the  Czar  hav- 
ing been  deposed,  did  not  the  troops  have  faith  in  Kerensky? 

Mr.  Storey.  No;  I  think  not.  At  one  time  it  seemed  as  though 
he  might  rally  them.  No  part  of  Russia  wanted  to  fight  after  the 
revolution.  A  certain  part  of  it  felt  under  obligation  to  do  so,  but  I 
have  not  encountered  any  enthusiasm  in  any  part  of  Russia  for  con- 
tinuing war. 

Senator  Steelixg.  Did  you  hear  anything  of  the  failure  of  Ker- 
ensky in  the  matter  of  discipline?  Did  he  not  relax  the  army  dis- 
cipline to  such  an  extent  that  it  aided  this  Bolshevik  sentiment? 

Mr.  Stoeey.  I  have  heard  two  sides  to  that.  One  was  that  the  pro- 
visional cabinet  was  responsible  for  that  famous  edict,  No.  1,  which 
did  relax  the  discipline,  and  the  other  was  that  it  was  a  spurious 
document  that  had  been  sent  out  and  which  they  did  not  have  the 
courage  to  combat  quickly  enough. 

Senator  Steeling.  The  soldiers  got  to  understand  that  they  did  not 
have  to  salute  their  superior  officers? 

Mr.  Stoeet.  Certainly;  that  was  true. 

Senator  Steeling.  Anct  claimed  that  they  stood  on  the  same  foot- 
iiif  exactly  as  an  officer  ? 

Mr.  Storey.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Steeling.  And  were  entitled  to  the  same  privileges  and 
the  same  accommodations  and  everything? 

Mr.  Storey.  They  did  not  go  to  that  extent  all  at  once,  but  that 
was  a  gradual  development  as  they  felt  their  power.  The  tendency, 
as  they  became  familiar  with  their  officers,  was  to  become  more  so. 


Senator  Overman.  It  has  been  said  here  that  the  Bolsheviki  had 
great  antipathy  to  the  Yoimg  Men's  Christian  Association.  AVhy 
was  that? 

Mr.  Storey.  Their  attitude  toward  the  Young  Men's  Christian 
Association,  I  should  say,  was  twofold.  I  ought  to  say  that  up  to 
the  time  the  Young  Men's  Christian  Association  definitely  allied  it- 
self with  the  Czechs,  it  Avas  tolerated  in  liussia  and  was  permitted 
to  do  considerable  work,  and  was  giA  en  some  facilities  for  its  work ; 
but  there  came  a  time  when,  owing  to  the  fact  that  it  was  working 
also  with  the  Czechs  who  were  fighting  the  Bolsheviki,  they  de- 
manded that  it  make  a  choice.  As  a  matter  of  fact,  I  think  that 
choice  never  actuallj-  had  to  be  made,  because  the  American  Govern- 
ment ordered  its  subjects  out  of  Russia;  but  certainly  the  association 
was  on  the  eve  of  having  to  make  such  a  choice.  The  two  reasons 
are,  in  the  main,  these,  that  owing  to  their  past  knowledge  and  con- 
ception of  Christianity  as  exhibited  in  the  Eussian  Church,  an 
instrument  of  the  old  regime,  they  were  anti-Christian.  To  them 
that  was  what  Christianity  represented.  The  second  reason  was  that 
they  were  suspicious  that  the  American  Young  Men's  Christian  Asso- 
ciation "was  in  Russia  for  the  purpose  of  assisting  to  keep  Russia  in 
the  war,  and  was  an  instrument  of  the  American  Government  and  the 
capitalistic  grou^js  who  supported  the  association  in  helping  to  re- 
store the  moi'ale  of  the  Russian  Army,  and  the  soldiers  did  not  want 
that,  nor  did,  of  course,  the  Bolsheviki  care  for  it;  and  I  think  it 
would  be  truth  to  say  that  the  utterances  of  some  of  the  association 
leaders  as  to  the  reasons  for  sending  men  to  Russia  and  for  sending 
men  to  make  the  effort  there  were  that  it  was  in  order  to  hold  the 
Russian  Army  on  that  front.  Whether  those  utterances  ever  reached 
Russia  or  not  I  do  not  know.  Certainlj'  we  had  that  to  combat 

Senator  Overman.  When  was  it  that  you  left  Russia  ? 

Mr.  Stoeet.  I  left  there  the  last  of  November. 

Senator  Overman.  After  the  signing  of  the  armistice? 

Mr.  STOiiET.  Yes;  after  the  signing  of  the  armistice.  I  was  in 
Siberia  the  latter  part  of  the  time  I  was  there. 

Senator  Overman.  Can  you  go  on  and  give  us  your  judgment  of 
the  condition  of  things  over  there,  the  terrorism,  and  so  on  ? 

Mr.  Storey.  In  the  main,  I  think  I  could  summarize  the  situation, 
as  I  looked  at  it,  substantially  as  follows.  May  I  preface  that  by 
saying  that  my  interest  was  rather  that  of  a  student  of  the  Govern- 
ment, because  that  has  been  my  teaching  field,  and  I  was  interested 
in  it  from  the  standpoint  of  politics  and  political  science  as  mudfi 
as  any  other.  During  the  time  that  I  was  in  Russia  I  spent  some 
time  in  Moscow,  some  time  with  the  troops,  and  some  time  in  Petro- 
grad.  I  was  in  Finland  during  the  revolution  in  Finland  and  dur- 
ino-  the  period  of  the  German  occupation  there.  I  was  back  in  Russia 
and  in  Petrograd  some  time  after  the  allied  embassies  left  it,  and  in 
Moscow  at  the  time  of  the  peace  conference,  and  have  been  in 
Siberia  with  the  Czechs  during  the  greater  portion  of  their  stay  there, 
and  was  there  prior  to  their  arrival  a.  short  time. 

In  my  dealings  with  the  Bolshevik  leaders  I  have  generally  had  a 
courteous  and,  I  should  say  on  the  whole,  a  frank  reception  and 
treatment.    There  was  that  satisfaction  in  dealing  with  them,  in  the 


main.  If  you  were  at  the  source  of  authority,  they  did  not  mince 
words  about  what  they  would  do  or  what  they  would  not  do.  One 
of  them  told  me  frankly  that  they  were  tolerating  our  activities 
until  they  would  be  able  to  take  over  that  kind  of  work.  They  did 
not  propose  to  tolerate  us  anj-  longer.  One  of  them  said  frankly 
that  they  were  anti-Christian,  and  said  why,  pointing  to  the  past 
history  of  the  Eussian  Church  as  an  illustration. 

I  think  this  is  a  reaction,  from  talking  with  them  and  reading  their 
pamphlets  and  their  papers,  and  hearing  them  speak.  They  aspire, 
undoubtedly,  to  a  world-wide  rule  of  the  proletariat.  They  do  not 
stop  at  means  which  it  is  necessary  to  employ  in  order  to  achieve  those 
ends,  but  on  the  other  hand,  there  is  this  to  be  said,  in  part,  for  that. 
They  have  lived  under  a  regime  which  knew  no  exceptions  to  the 
processes  by  which  it  attained  its  purposes,  either,  and  I  am  disposed 
to  think  that  a  great  many  of  the  excesses  and  the  outrages  which  un- 
doubtedly took  place  were  the  result  of  nervousness  on  the  part  of  un- 
trained and  ill-disciplined  soldiers,  or  of  armed  groups,  from  an  army 
many  units  of  which  were  disbanded  with  their  arms.  ^lany  of  these 
soldiers  wandered  about  over  the  country  for  weeks.  They  did  not 
know  where  they  were  and  did  not  know  how  to  get  to  their  homes. 
It  "was  also  true  that  a  great  many  of  the  men  who  took  up  with  the 
Bolshevik  movement  were  poor  adventurers,  unscrupulous,  and  went 
in  on  it  because  that  was  the  way  the  tide  was  running. 

Senator  Steeling.  Did  not  that  class  of  men  have  a  good  deal  of 
influence  among  the  poorer  classes  ? 

Mr.  Storey.  Undoubtedly.  There  were  some  very  clever  men 
among  that  group.  A  great  many  of  the  old  secret  police,  I  have 
heard,  were  actually  in  this  movement,  men  of  training  and  men  of 
influence,  although  I  know  that  a  great  many  of  the  men  who  are  in 
the  movement  are  idealists  of  the  most  sincere  type. 

Senator  OvEpaiAx.  Did  you  know  Trotsky? 

Mr.  Storey.  No;  I  did  not.  I  have  heard  him  speak.  I  do  not 
know  him  personally,  however. 

Senator  Overman.  What  was  the  character  of  his  speech?  What 
did  he  preach  ? 

Mr.  Storey.  Well,  he  was  making  an  address  to  a  company  of 
about  400  Lettish  soldiers  who  were  quartered  in  a  prince's  palace  or 
clubroom  in  Petrograd,  and  the  speech  was  largely  inspirational. 

Senator  Overman .  Is  he  a  fine  talker? 

Mr.  Storey.  Yes;  he  is  a  rather  striking  man  to  see,  and  certainly 
a  very  imj^ressive  speaker.  I,  of  course,  had  the  extreme  disad- 
vantage, which  a  great  many  of  us  had,  of  having  to  hear  him 
through  an  interpreter,  and  that  is  not  always  an  accurate  and  satis- 
factor}^  method  of  getting  the  substance  of  what  is  said. 

Senator  Steeling.  In  Avith  those  leaders,  Mr.  Storey,  and 
with  the  more  intelligent  of  them,  did  they  seem  to  have  the  idea 
that  they  could  form  a.  permanent  society  and  government  on  the 
class  principle,  in  which  the  proletariat  should  rule  alone,  without 
reference  to  what  thej'  termed  the  bourgeoisie,  the  tradesmen  or 
middle-class  people? 

]Mr.  Storey.  Their  conception,  of  course,  of  social  organization 
was  radically  socialistic,  and  while  I  got  the  impression  from  them 
that  for  the  present  their  attitude  toward  these  groups  was  uncorri- 


promising,  yet  in  theory  they  did  recognize  differences  in  ability 
between  men.  They  would  not  under  normal  circumstances,  I  think, 
have  objected  to  a  teacher  soTiet.  for  example;  in  fact,  they  had  one 
in  Vladivostok  when  I  reached  there,  and  it  sent  its  delegates  to  the 
assembly  of  the  city  just  as  did  the  ditch  diggers  and  the  factory 
workers,  and  other  groups  of  workers.  I  do  not  have  personal  knowl- 
edge of  the  facts,  but  I  understand  that  there  has  since  been  made 
a  classification  of  workers  which  recognizes  that  there  are  some 
people  Avho  must  do  inside  work,  so  lo  speak,  cluur  work — that 
is,  work  of  a  sedentary  character.  They  recognize,  in  other  words, 
brain  work,  although  it  is  not  permitted  to  claim  thereby  a  larger 
proportion  of  the  total  production  of  society.  Does  that  answer  your 
question  ?    I  think  there  is  no  question  that  they  had  that  idea. 

Senator  SteeliiSig.  The  three  classes  which  the  Soviet  constitution 
recognizes,  as  I  understand  it,  are  the  laborers,  the  peasants,  and  the 

Mr.  Storey.  Those  are  all  member's 

Senator  Steelixg.  And  they  further  declare  in  that  constitiltion 
that  no  one  belonging  to  the  bourgeois  class,  the  traders,  or  anyone 
making  a  profit  on  any  in^•estnlent  or  receiving  an  income  from  in- 
vestments, shall  participate  in  an  election,  or  be  elected  to  any 
position  or  office. 

Mr.  Stoket.  Substantially,  I  think  that  is  their  attitude  to-day. 

Senator  Sterling.  They  clo  not  say  that  their  government  is  a 

Mr.  Stoeet.  Oh,  no.  I  would  say  that  it  was  quite  a  shock  to  me 
that  I  did  not  meet  in  Russia  anyone,  high  or  low,  who  had  been  in 
the  United  States,  Bolshevik  or  non-Bolshevik,  who  cared  to  see 
American  civilization  duplicated  in  their  own  countiw.  There  was 
a  very  unfavorable  impression  as  to  our  Government  on  the  part  of 
Russians  that  I  met  with. 

Senator  Sterling.  They  really  do  not  believe  in  representative 
government ;  is  not  that  true  ? 

Mr.  Stoeey.  Their  objection  was  not  so  much  to  our  representative 
system  as  to  our  industrial  system. 

Senator  Sterling.  Well,  if  carried  out  into  government,  politically, 
they  did  not  believe  in  a  government  that  would  represent  other  than 
these  three  classes  ? 

Mr.  Stoeey.  Their  expectation  is  that  they  will  soon  reduce 
all  to  those  three.  They  are,  for  example,  achieving  that  purpose. 
Undoubtedly  certain  sections  of  the  middle  classes  are  having  to  sell 
themselves  to  the  Soviets.  Men  with  brains  and  wits  are  hiring  out  in 
order  to  live.  I  saw  officers  sweeping  the  streets.  I  have  seen  refined 
women  selling  newspapers.  Their  quarrel  is  not  with  the  ability,  but 
with  the  utilization  of  that,  as  they  feel  it  does  deprive  others  of 

Senator  Oveeman.  They  have  no  respect  for  the  educated  lady  of 
property  ? 

Mr.  Stoeey.  She  is  forced  into  this,  not  by  physical  violence,  as  I 
know,  but  by  necessity.  If  the  funds  of  a  doctor's  household  or  a 
lawyer's  household  run  out,  they  have  to  get  out  and  make  their 

Senator  Oveeman.  They  have  to  do  manual  Avork? 


Mr.  Storey.  Yes. 

Senator  Sterling.  Well,  if  they  desire  to  or  find  it  necessary  to 
utilize  those  who  are  educated  and  who  are  intelligent,  do  they  recog- 
nize any  proportionate  reward  for  services  of  that  kind  i 

Mr.  Storey.  They  would  claim,  I  think,  that  the  reward  >houkl  be 
substantially  equal. 

Senator  Wolcott.  Let  me  understand  that.  May  I  ask  a  question? 
I  can  understand  things  in  concrete  terms  better  than  in  any  other 
way.  Let  me  see  if  I  understand  that  proposition.  Is  it  this,  that 
some  lazy  fellow  who  is  just  driven  to  make  a  .slight  contribution  in 
the  way  of  work,  who  will  not  improve  himself  in  anywise,  who  does 
not  care  whether  he  lives  in  a  pig  pen  or  a  comfortable  home,  but  yet 
does  a  little  work. gets  as  much  for  it  as  a  hard-working,  eonseientitius, 
frugal  individual  ( 

Mr.  Storey.  Well,  in  practice  that  is  the  way  it  would  work  out. 
In  theory,  they  do  not  recognize  the  human  element  in  it. 

Senator  Wolcott.  They  go  on  the  theory  that  everybody  does  his 
best  and  everything  should  be  equal,  overlooking  the  fact  that  some 
who  are  forced  will  not  do  their  best,  but  will  do  as  little  as  they  can. 

Mr.  Storey.  I  have  heard  it  said  that  it  was  not  necessary  for  any 
man  to  work  until  his  back  ached;  that  enough  could  be  produced 
without  that.     I  have  heard  that  remark  in  Russia. 

Senator  Overtax.  I  want  to  ask  you  a  question  that  I  have  asked 
others.  To  what  extent  have  vou  noticed  anything  of  a  Bolshevik 
movement  in  this  country?  Have  you  observed  anything  going  on 
in  this  country  as  propaganda  ? 

Mr.  Storey.  I  have  not  taken  particular  notice  of  it  since  I  re- 
turned, because  I  have  been  here  on  a  rather  highly  specialized  mis- 
sion, and  have  concentrated  upon  that.  I  have  noticed  in  the  circn- 
lars  and  other  articles  a  keen  and  active  desire  to  know  about  it. 
Invariably,  wherever  I  go,  I  am  questioned  about  it.  As  for  evidences 
of  organized  activity,  I  simjily  have  not  encountered  it.  if  it  exists, 
probably  because  I  have  not  been  circulating. 

Senator  Sterling.  Have  you  seen  any  of  the  publications  made  by 
the  I.  "W.  W..  or  under  the  auspices  of  the  I.  W.  W.,  in  this  country, 
and  do  you  know  from  them  how  they  regard  Bolshevism  ? 

^Ir.  ST()Rf:Y.  Xo :  I  have  not.  I  met  a  former  I.  W.  W. — I  beheve 
in  Siberia — who  said  he  had  been  in  the  lumber  camps  of  the  West. 
He  was  apparently  not  as  extreme  as  some  of  the  gentlemen  who 
are  in  authority  over  him.  But  my  impression  about  the  relation 
between  the  I.  W.  W.'s  and  t-he  Bolsheviki  from  the  other  side  ^vas 
this :  The  Bolsheviki  were  appealing  to  all  discontented  elements  in 
other  countries,  irrespective  of  who  they  were.  Beyond  that  I  woidd 
not  be  able  to  make  any  direct  connection  between  them. 

Senator  Over^ian.  They  have  the  same  flag? 

Mr.  Storey.  They  recognize  in  them  a  protesting  element — some- 
thing in  common. 

Maj.  HtJ3iES.  ISIr.  Storey,  did  you  see  any  of  the  terrorism  in 
Russia  for  the  purpose  of  perpetuating  control,  at  any  of  the  places 
where  you  were  ? 

Mr.  Storey.  I  saw  two  sides  of  it.  It  was  equally  evident.  I  think, 
in  Finland,  where  the  reds  had  control,  and  on  the  other  side  of  the 
line  where  the  whites  had  control.     I  can  not  sav  that  I  have  a 


feeling  that  any  one  group  of  the  Russian  population  is  moi'e  fero- 
cious in  its  attitude  toward  the  other  than  another  group  is. 

Maj.  Humes.  In  other  words,  a  state  of  civil  war  existed? 

Mr.  Stoeet.  Yes. 

Maj.  HuMKS.  Everyone  is  armed,  and  they  are  fighting  ad  libitum. 

Mr.  Storey.  Russia  demobilized  7,000,000  men  within  a  short 
period  of  time,  and  those  men  took  thair  arms  with  them  in  a  great 
many  cases,  thousands,  tens  of  thousands  of  them,  and  how  much 
of  the  terrorism  that  exists  is  due  to  the  want  of  a  strong  central 
authority,  and  how  much  of  it  is  due  to  deliberate  planning,  I  can 
not  say ;  I  do  not  know. 

Senator  Overman.  We  want  to  hold  an  executive  session  for  an 
hour.    We  will  excuse  you. 

(Thereupon,  at  4.55  o'clock  p.  m.,  the  subcommittee  went  into 
executive  [secret]  session.) 

executive  session. 

The  following  testimony  was  taken  by  the  subcommittee  in  execu- 
tive session,  and  the  name  of  the  witnes.s  is  not  disclosed  because  of 
the  fact  that  the  lives  of  his  relatives  in  Russia  might  be  endangered 
thereby : 


(The  Avitness  was  sworn  by  the  chairman.) 

Maj.  Humes.  Mr. ,  suppose  you  go  aliead  and  state  the  con- 
ditions in  Russia  as  you  found  them,  and  especially  conditions  under 
the  soviet  government. 

Mr.  .  I  have  been  in  Russia  close  on  to  15  years.     I  was 

located  there  with  a  factory,  where  we  had  about  2,500  workmen. 
Our  factory  is  running  to-day,  and  even  last  year,  by  our  last  jJ'ear's 
production  we  filled  all  our  orders.  But  nobody  can  explain — I  could 
not  myself — just  exactl_y  how  that  was  done  or  why  it  was.  We 
seemed  to  have  unusual  control  over  the  men  there,  and  because  of 
the  fact  that  we  were  making  machinery  which  was  necessary  for  the 
country  the  workmen  stood  by  us  and  we  ran  through. 

I  have  heard  and  read  the  statement  that  the  present  government  in 
Russia  is  a  Avorkmen's  government  and  all  that  sort  of  thing.  In  my 
estimation  that  is  absolutely  false.  I  have  been  with  the  workmen. 
That  is  all  I  have  done;  I  have  been  with  the  workmen  and  peasants. 
I  never  met  Prof.  Dennis  there,  or  anj^  other  of  these  gentlemen 
here,  because  I  never  had  time.  I  was  always  with  the  workmen. 
The  workingmen  in  Russia,  in  the  factories,  are  not  Bolsheviki,  al- 
though they  do  not  dare  to  say  they  are  something  else. 

Senator  Steeling.  Do  you  mean  to  put  it  so  broad  as  that? 

Mr.  .  I  do  not  mean  to  say  that  there  are  no  workmen 

who  are  Bolsheviki.  I  am  taking  the  workmen  as  a  whole.  It  is 
the  worst  element  out  of  each  factory,  the  Avorst  element  out  of  the 
country,  that  has  come  to  the  top,  and  they  are  supporting  the  gov- 
ernment. They  are  supporting  this  government,  being  paid,  of  coui'se, 
large  sums,  and  being  given  the  privilege  to  loot  or  anything  that 
they  wish.  It  would  not  do  to  question  a  Red  Guard.  If  he  said 
something — told  you  to  do  something — you  would  not  dare  to  ques- 
tion it.    If  you  did  that  it  would  l)e  as  much  as  your  life  was  worth. 


And  now,  as  I  say,  the  government  over  there  is  made  up  of  the 
loafers  of  the  industrial  and  the  peasant  vrorld,  and  all  the  outsiders 
have  come  running  in  from  other  countries.  If  you  go  into  Moscow 
to  do  any  business  with  the  Bolshevik  governmtnt  and  you  come 
upon  any  of  the  people  higher  up  in  the  government,  j^ou  never 
meet  anybodj^  that  was  born  and  brought  up  in  Eussia  up  to  the 
date  of  the  revolution.  You'  meet  a  man  that  was  born  there,  prob- 
ably, and  went  out  and  came  in  from  the  outside  after  the  revolution 
was  on.  Those  people  are  supposed  to  be  worldng  at  salaries  that 
are  often  to-day,  I  believe,  below  what  the  workingman  was  getting, 
below  what  it  would  take  a  man  to  live  on,  a  decent  living  wage 
that  he  was  supposed  to  be  getting.  In  fact,  they  are  getting  much 
more  money  on  the  side  and  lots  of  them  are  making  fortunes. 

In  regard  to  the  industries  there,  when  the  revolution  started,  tlie 
Bolshevik  revolution  around  the  1st  of  November,  1917,  the  worlmien 
all  went  with  the  Bolsheviki.  They  were  all  Bolslieviki  then,  or 
nearly  all,  because  the  Bolsheviki  told  them  ''  Everji:hing  is  yours. 
Just  take  it.  You  have  been  opj^ressed.''  They  sang  such  songs  to 
those  men  that  it  certainly  did  turn  their  heads. 

Senator  Sterling.  But  since  that  time? 

Mr. .  Since  that  time  things  have  changed.     Three  or  four 

or  five  months  after  the  revolution  took  place  the  workmen  began 
to  open  up  tlieir  eyes,  and  saw  that  things  were  jiot  as  they  thought 
they  were.  Thej^  are  afraid  to  say  so.  You  will  very  seldom  get  a 
workman  to  say  tliat  he  is  not  a  Bolshevik,  but  he  Avill  tell  you  in 
secret  that  he  is  not  a  Bolslievik.  "  But  wliat  can  I  do?  "  he  will  say. 
"I  do  not  dare  to  say  anyihing.  I  can  not  do  anytliing."  They  are 
all  terrorized,  just  as  the  peasants  are. 

Maj.  Humes.  What  are  the  means  used  to  terrorize  them? 

Mr.  .  Shooting  them. 

Maj.  Humes.  Are  shootings  frequent? 

Mr. .  Yes. 

Slaj.  Humes.  Tell  us  any  incidents  of  that  sort. 

Mr.  .  I  can  tell  lots  of  incidents  of  jDeople  disappearing 

by  being  shot.  You  know  they  are  shot,  because  of  the  number  of 
persong  disappearing.  In  Russia  they  have  no  place  to  put  them  in 
jails.    Tliey  are  just  sliot,  that  is  all. 

Maj.  Humes.  "Was  there  an  eifort  made  to  seize  vour  factory? 

Mr.  .  Yes. 

Maj.  Hu:mes.  ^'\'hat  was  the  manner  in  which  they  undertook  to 
seize  it?    What  was  tlie  method  used? 

Mr. .  There  was  a  decree  put  out  that  all  factories  were  na- 
tionalized ;  that  the  factories  must  be  under  the  control  of  the  work- 
men's committees,  etc.  We  had  a  worl^men's  committee  in  our 
f actor3%  but  our  worlnnen's  committee  said  to  us,  "  We  do  not  want 
to  control  this  factory.  We  are  perfectly  satisfied  as  it  is."  Now. 
tliat  is  about  the  only  factory  in  Russia  where  they  have  acted  in  tliat 
way.  Why  it  is  I  can  not  tell  you.  It  is  possible  that  it  was  because 
of  this.  I  would  aslv,  '"  How  is  it  that  the  workmen  do  not  take  our 
factory?  Wliat  is  the  difference  between  the  other  factories  and  our 
own  case  ? ''  Tlicy  would  say,  "  In  the  other  factories  the  owners  do 
not  work.  They  jnst  come  around  occasionally.  But  here  it  is  differ- 
ent. You  are  on  the  job  before  I  am."'  They  would  say  to  me,  "We 
find  the  superintendents  on  the  job  before  we  are.    You  leave  after 


US."  In  that  way  we  had  their  confidence  and  we  were  able  to  carry 
the.  thing  through.  Xow,  it  wa,s  not  true  in  other  factories  in  Russia 
that  the  managers  were  ahvays  on  the  job.  They  were  sometimes 
never  onthe  job.  It  is  true  that  they  were  not  as  strict  as  we  were 
about  being  around.  Some  of  them  would  come  around  for  an  hour 
and  look  around  and  go  away.  So  they  took  those  factories,  and  ours 
they  did  not  take. 

Senator  Overmax.  Where  is  your  factory? 

Mr.  .  In  European  Eussia. 

Mr.  Dennis.  What  happened  to  the factory? 

Mr.  .  I  was  at  the  factory  in  September.     It  shut 

down — absolutely  shut  down. 

Senator  Steeling.  Those  were  not  the  factories,  were  they,  where 
the  committee  visited  the  manager  and  told  him  that  they  had  come 
to  take  over  the  factory,  that  they  were  the  owners  of  it  now,  and 
the  manager  just  said,  "All  right,  gentlemen;  I  must  pay  out  30,000 
rubles  next  Saturday.  Here  are  the  pajjers,  etc.;  take  them"?  And 
thev  replied  to  him,  saying,  "That  is  your  job." 

Mr.  .  Yes. 

Senator  Sterling.  And  he  told  them  in  reply  that  if  they  wei-e 
going  to  take  the  factory  they  must  take  the  responsibility. 

Mr.  .  Yes. 

Senator  Sterling.  And  that  changed  the  color  of  things. 

Mr. .  That  is  true  in  many,  many  cases. 

Let  me  tell  you  what  I  saw  at  one  factory.  The  factory  was  shut 
down.  They  had  a  lot  of  good  men  that  had  worked  for  years,  and 
I  tried  to  get  some  of  them.  I  was  sitting  with  the  manager  talking 
as  one  of  the  men  came  in  and  left  a  note  on  his  table.  He  said, 
"  Just  a  minute."  In  a  few  minutes  the  same  man  came  back  and 
said,  "  They  will  not  wait.  They  Avant  you  right  away."  He  said, 
■'  You  see  I  am  busy.  What  can  I  do?  "  "  It  is  the  committee."  "  I 
can  not  do  anything :  it  is  the  workmen's  committee  and  I  can  not  do 
anything  with  them."  I  said,  "What  is  up  now?  "  He  said,  "I  do 
not  know.  Let  them  come  in."  So  I  said  good-by  and  went  away. 
He  told  me  afterwards,  "  They  came  in  and  ordered  me  out  of  my 
house,  took  mj  household  furniture  and  everything,  and  I  am  out  in 
the  street."  He  was  cleaning  up  papers  and  things.  That  is  what 
happens  to  90  per  cent  of  the  factories. 

Maj.  Humes.  How  long  did  they  operate  that  factory? 

Mr. .  They  never  operated  it. 

Maj.  Hu3iES.  Just  closed  it  down? 

Mr.  .  Just  closed  it  down. 

Senator  Oa'erman.  What  became  of  the  operatives,  the  workmen? 
Did  they  go  into  the  army? 

Mr.  — .  The  workmen  just  scattered,  looking  for  food. 

Senator  Overman.  Looting,  I  suppose. 

Mr.  .  Yes. 

Well  I  will  say,  in  regard  to  why  our  factory  was  not  nationalized, 
that  the  workmen,  Avould  not  allow  the  government  to  nationalize 
it  sayino",  "  If  3^011  nationalize  this  factory  you  will  close  it  up  the 
same  as  the  others,  and  we  want  '  our '  factory  to  work." 

Senator  Sterling.  Because  of  the  goods  produced? 

Mr, .  Possibly.    And  we  had  kept  telling  the  workmen  right 

alono-,  "Do  not  jump  at  these  things.    Keep  back,  and  let  the  other 

238  BOLSHEVIK  propaga>:da. 

fe]lo\\-s  try  out  their  experiments,  and  if  it  is  good  perhaps  we  wil] 
do  it."  So  when  they  saw  what  the  other  factories  did,  that  they 
Avere  all  shut  up  in  a  week  or  two,  our  workmen  thought  that  they 
had  better  not  do  this.  The  government  sent  down  to  a  committee 
to  say  they  would  shoot  our  workmen's  committee  if  they  did  not 
take  over  our  factory,  and  oui'  workmen's  committee  came  to  us  and 
said,  "  "What  can  we  do '.  They  are  going  to  nationalize  the  factory 
and  shut  us  doAvn."  '"  Well,"  we  said.  '"  hold  on,  and  let  us  stand 
together  and  we  can  probably  do  something."'  We  fought  it  out  with 
the  government  and  the  workmen  said  that  they  would  not  work 
for  the  government,  and  that  if  they  touched  any  of  us  they  would 
go  out  on  strilve  and  woukl  not  work.  They  said  that  the  gov- 
ernment could  never  turn  out  a  macliine.  So,  in  that  way  that  affair 
blew  over.  AYc  went  into  that  matter  pretty  well  with  our  work- 
men's committee  and  found  out  what  the  cause  of  this  was.  and 
what  started  it.  It  had  gone  ^long  8  or  10  months  without  talk  of 
nationalizing  our  factory,  they  had  kind  of  gone  around  us.  but 
suddenly  it  came  uf).  After  we  went  into  it  we  found  it  was  about 
the  same  as  in  other  case-.,  somebody  looking  for  the  job  of  manag- 
ing the  factory.  When  they  find  a  factory  they  will  go  to  the 
Bolsheviki  and  say,  '"  Here  is  a  job.  Give  me  this  f  jictory  and  I  will 
run  it." 

Senator  Overman.  Does  he  run  it  or  not? 

Mr. .  Whether  it  ^-uns  or  not,  he  gets  his  pay ;  and  if  it  does 

not  run,  if  they  do  not  manufacture  anything,  the  government  gives 
him  money  to  pay  the  men  Avith.  I  know  an  instance  of  a  factory 
a  few  miles  fi'om  ours  where  the  gOA'ernment  spent  60,000,000  rubles 
to  run  the  factorv  for  three  months,  and  in  that  time  they  produced 
goods  Avorth  400,000  rubles.  Xoav.  if  it  took  60,000,000  rubles  to  pro- 
duce goods  Avorth  400,000  rubles,  that  explains  the  Avay  factories  are 
run  under  Bolsheviks. 

Senator  Overman.  What  sort  of  a  factory  Avas  it  I 

Mr. .  A  locomotive  Avorks. 

Senator  Sterling.  If  that  is  a  fair  sample  of  the  Avay  in  Avhich 
the  goA  ernment  runs  them,  nationalizing  them  is  not  an  entire  suc- 

Mr.  .  Yes:  they  have  failed  to  keep  the  workmen  satisfied 

and  they  have  killed  the  hen  that  laid  the  golden  egg.  In  order  to 
keep  the  Avorkmen  quiet  tliey  pay  them,  and  the  workmen  drink  tea 
and  read  newspapers  and  smoke  cigarettes  in  the  shops  instead  of 

Senator  Sterling.  What  about  the  value  of  that  money? 

]Mr. .  It  is  the  only  means  of  purchasing  they  have  got — that 


Senator  Sterling.  It  is  paper  money  representing  rubles? 

]Mr. .  Yes,  and  Avith  that  they  buy  AA'hat  they  can.    But  they 

can  not  buy  much. 

Senator  Sterling.  Has  not  that  money  been  depreciating  all  the 
time  ? 

^Ir. .  Certainly:  you  can  go  and  buy  something  to-day  that 

would  cost  30  rubles  and  to-morrow  it  Avould  co-t  80. 

Senator  Sterling.  Do  you  knoAv  Avhat  the  extent  of  the  deprecia- 
tion is  in  the  Eussian  ruble  ? 


Mr. -.  I  do  not  know.     Let  lis  take  it  this  way.     I  used  to  buy 

a  suit  of  clothes  for  60  or  70  rubles.  Now,  I  doubt  if  you  could  get 
one  for  2,000  rubles. 

Mr.  Dennis.  And  you  would  hare  to  hunt  for  it  to  buy  it  at  that. 

Senator  Steeling."^  Two  thousand  rubles  for  that  which  thereto- 
fore cost  60  or  70  rubles  ? 

Mr. .  Yes ;  almost  forty  times. 

Senator  Overjeax.  When  did  you  leave  Russia  ? 

Mr._ .  I  crossed  the  frontier  on  the  7th  of  October. 

Maj.  HiTMES.  What  experience  did  you  have  with  fines — as  to 
being  fined '. 

Mr. .  The  g'overnment  tried  to  fine  us  in  every  way,  shape, 

and  manner — that  is,  to  levy  taxes.  We  refused  to  pay.  The  govern- 
ment used  to  get  at  the  workmen's  committee  and  ask,  "  What  kind 
of  a  revolutionary  shop  are  you  running?  "  We  told  the  committee, 
"Do  not  be  hard  on  us  or  we  will  get  out."  In  most  cases  they  did 
just  the  opposite ;  but  they  tried  to  put  taxes  on  us  in  every  way. 

They  were  afraid  to  use  force  on  us,  and  our  committee  backed  us 
lip  by  refusing  to  do  what  they  wanted  it  to  do ;  and  then  we  had  300 
armed  men  at  the  factory.  We  had  300  men  fully  armed  and  trained, 
so  that  if  anything  happened  they  would  start  a  little  row.  It  is 
pretty  close  to  the  city,  and  they  would  not  want  anything  started 

It  went  along  for  a  long  time,  and  I  left  Eussia,  and  it  was  not  paid. 
None  of  the  taxes  were  paid.  One  tax  was  900,000  rubles.  In  one  of 
the  reports  that  has  been  made  since  I  came  back  one  of  the  men 
writes  that  they  are  being  pushed  pretty  hard  to  pay. 

Senator  Steeling.  The  taxes  were  imposed  by  the  Bolshevik  gov- 
ernment ? 

Mr. .  Yes. 

Senator  Overiman.  Nine  hundred  thousand  rubles  ? 

Mr.  .  Altogether,   about  four  and   a  half  million  rubles; 

that  is,  in  ordinary  tax.  If  they  think  a  man  has  anything  at  all, 
they  will  tax  him  for  all  he  has  got. 

Senator  Sterling.  Were  you  taxed  pretty  high  under  the  old 
regime  ? 

Mr. .  Xothing  like  that.    If  we  paid  a  tax  of  .50,000  rubles, 

we  thought  that  was  pretty  big.  The  figures  now  run  into  millions. 
Now,  if  you  pay  this  tax  to-day,  in  two  weeks  maybe  they  will  come 
around  to  collect  the  same  tax  again.  We  pay  that  into  the  local 
soviet,  but  we  do  not  know  Avhere  it  goes  to.    AVe  have  not  any  idea. 

Before  I  came  over  from  Eussia  I  tried  to  get  out  by  way  of 
Siberia  to  the  Czecho-Slovak  front,  and  I  was  in  Nijni  Novgorod, 
where  Prof.  Dennis  was.  I  even  called  to  see  him,  but  he  was  gone. 
I  had  about  a  month  going  from  door  to  door  with  peasants,  go- 
ing right  through  the  country,  just  knocking  on  the  door  and  asking 
them  to  let  me  in  at  night.  I  spoke  Eussian  well,  and  I  used  to  have 
some  pretty  good  talks  with  the  peasants,  and  I  tried  to  get  their 
idea  of  the  Bolsheviki  situation.  The  peasants  in  Eussia  are  abso- 
lutely opposed  to  the  Bolsheviki.  Before  they  would  let  me  into  the 
house  they  would  ask.  "Are  you  a  Bolshevik?"  And  when  I  told 
them  I  was  not  a  Bolshevik  but  that  I  was  an  American,  then  they 
would  open  everything  and  give  me  anything  that  I  wanted,  when 
they  knew  that  1  was  an  American.    But  they  Avould  not  let  me  in 


until  they  knew  that  I  was  not  a  BoLhovik.  They  treated  me  very 

Now,  as  to  elections  in  Eussia.  I  will  tell  you  of  an  election  that 
I  saw  in  this  town.  I  talked  with  a  man  that  participated  in  it.  At 
one  place  they  had  a  soviet  which  was  elected  just  at  the  beginning 
of  the  Bolshevik  revolution,  and  it  ran  along  for  a  whole  year.  Thev 
were  in  jDower,  but  the  Czecho-Slovaks  were  coming  up  and  the  peo- 
ple, the  peasants  all  around,  would  say.  "'  When  are  they  coming? 
Why  do  they  not  come ''.  ^Vhy  do  the  allies  not  come  I  The  allies 
are  right  close  up."  They  used  to  point  to  some  place  where  you 
could  say  that  the  allies  were.  I  do  not  know  how  they  used"  to 
find  it  out,  but  it  passed  from  mouth  to  mouth.  In  the  city  which 
is  the  capital  of  the  state  of  Xovgorod,  where  there  was  a  soviet, 
they  heard  that  the  soviet  in  this  town  of  Xijni  Xovgorod  was  not 
as  Bolshevik  as  it  should  be,  and  the  ]:)eople  around  there  were  pretty 
anxious  that  the  Czecho-Slovaks  shoulcl  come  in;  so  one  day  they 
sent  their  men  down  there,  three  delegates,  to  meet  and  talk  with 
them,  and  the  soldiers  rounded  up  as  many  of  the  members  of  the 
soviet  as  they  could  and  shot  some  of  them,  but  some  of  them  got 

Senator  Sterling.  Just  for  the  reason  that  they  were  not  Bol- 
shevik, they  were  shot? 

Mr. .  That  is  all.     Then  they  called  a  meeting  of  all  the 

peasants  who  were  elected  to  represent  the  diiferent  villages  around— 
this  was  a  county'  seat;  that  is  what  it  Avas. 

Senator  Steeling.  A  county  soviet? 

Mr.  .  They  called  them  in  to  hold   another  election  and 

one  of  the  men  told  me  this  story.  Here  are  the  very  words  that  they 
used  at  this  election.  They  called  these  peasants  in  and  one  of  these 
men  from  the  capital  said  to  them, "'  We  have  got  to  elect  a  new  soviet. 
This  soviet  is  going  to  be  Bolshevik.  If  you  elect  any  man  to  this 
soviet  that  is  not  a  Bolshevik  we  will  shoot  him.  Any  man  who  is 
here  that  is  not  a  Bolshevik  can  get  out." 

Well,  they  pretty  nearly  all  went  out.  A  few  stayed  around.  1 
do  not  know  whether  they  were  Bolshevik  or  what  they  were.  They 
had  some  elections,  but  they  did  not  elect  enough  men.  Whether 
they  could  not  find  enough  candidates  or  whether  there  were  not 
enough  If^ft  in  the  paity  I  don't  know.  So  one  of  them  just  went 
around  the  village  asking  who  were  Bolshevik,  and  they  went  over 
the  village  and  picked  out  men  for  that  soviet.  I  looked  into  the 
character  of  one  man  protty  well  and  I  found  that  he  was  a  drunk- 
ard, had  never  owned,  you  might  say.  the  shirt  on  his  back;  just  a 
thug.  He  was  one  of  the  representatives.  He  was  called  in  there 
and  put  in,  and  told  "  You  are  elected."  That  is  the  way  they  car- 
ried on  the  election  there,  and  I  think  you  will  find  that  that  story  is 
typical  of  how  they  elect  their  Soviets  all  over  Eussia. 

Senator  Sterling.  How  are  those  members  of  the  soviet  appor- 
tioned among  the  population ;  what  is  the  ratio  ? 

Mr. .  TJiat  I  have  forgotten.     I  think  it  is  1  to  every  ^.I.OOO 

workmen  and  1  to  every  42.">,000  peasants.  There  has  been  a  com- 
plaint about  it  on  the  part  of  the  peasants. 

(Thereupon,  at  .5.30  o'clock  p.  m.,  the  subcommittee  adjourned 
until  to-morrow.  Friday,  February  14,  1910.  at  2.30  o'clock  p.  m.) 


FRIDAY,  rEBRTTAKY   14,   1919. 

United  States  Senate, 
Subcommittee  of  the  Committee  on  the  Judiciary, 

Washington,  D.  G. 
The  subcommittee  met,  pursuant  to  adjournment,  at  2.30  o'clock 
p.  m.,  in  room  226,  Senate  Office  Building,  Senator  Lee  S.  Overman 

Present:  Senators  Overman  (chairman),  King,  Wolcott,  Nelson, 
and  Sterling. 

Senator    Overman.  The    committee    will    come    to    order.     Maj. 
Humes,  will  you  please  call  the  next  witness? 
Maj.  Humes.  I  will  call  Madame  Breshkovskaya. 


(The  witness  was  sworn  by  the  chairman.) 

Maj.  Humes.  When  did  you  leave  Eussia? 

Mrs.  Breshkovskaya.  I  left  Russia  two  months  ago. 

Maj.  Humes.  When  you  left  Eussia  what  was  the  condition  of  the 
schools  in  Eussia  ?     Were  they  in  operation  ? 

Mrs.  Breshkovskaya.  We  had  no  schools,  we  had  no  teachers,  we 
had  no  pencils,  no  inks.  Even  when  I  was  in  Moscow,  for  months 
we  could  not  get  ink.    When  you  did  get  it,  it  was  very  bad. 

Maj.  Humes.  Do  you  know  whether  the  schools  are  in  operation 
in  any  part  of  Eussia? 

Mrs.  Breshkovskaya.  There  were  schools  last  year,  but  now  they 
are  empty.  The  teachers  were  thrown  out  by  the  Bolsheviki,  and 
many  had  nothing  to  do,  because  they  had  no  furniture,  no  materials 
to  teach  the  children.  There  were  also  no  books.  I  was  asked  by 
my  teachers  to  come  to  America  and  to  pray,  and  pray  very  deeply, 
to  bring  some  millions  of  books  back  to  our  peasant  children,  for  we 
had  no  books. 

Maj.  Humes.  When  you  loft  Eussia,  were  any  of  the  factories  in 
Russia  running? 

Mrs.  Breshkovskaya.  Perhaps  you  have  read  in  your  papers  and 
perhaps  you  have  learned  from  your  own  people  in  the  Eed  Cross 
and  the  Young  Men's  Christian  Association  in  Eussia  that  there  is 
no  clothing,  no  food,  and  no  goods.  Even  our  cooperations  have  noth- 
ing to  sell  to  the  peasants,  for  we  have  no  industry  now  at  all.  The 
factories  are  destroyed,  and  there  are  no  importations,  for  we  have 
no  transportation ;  no  railroads  for  transportation. 

Eussia  gives  the  privilege  to  every  American  to  come  there,  and 
it  is  our  custom  and  habit  to  give  preference  especially  to  the  Ameri- 
85723—19 16  241 


can  people.  For  many  years  we  were  accustomed  to  treat  the  Ameri- 
can people  as  our  friends.  Up  until  this  time  the  Russian  people 
were  fond  of  the  American  people,  and  they  were  not  afraid  of  their, 

Industry  is  quite  destroyed,  and  we  have  no  furniture  for  the  use 
of  our  schools.  We  have  no  machines ;  we  have  no  tools,  no  scissors, 
no  knives,  or  any  of  such  things.  We  have  here  many  merchants  who 
came  to  beg  something  for  Russia,  some  goods ;  but  nothing  is  running 
to  transport  them. 

Senator  O^^erman.  Where  is  your  home,  madam  ? 

Mrs.  Beeshkovskata.  My  home,  sir,  is  Russia. 

Senator  Overman.  What  part  of  Russia? 

Mrs.  Breshkovskaya.  All  over.  I  have  no  home  of  my  own;  no 
house,  no  home. 

Senator  Nelson.  What  part  of  Russia  were  you  born  in  ? 

Mrs.  Beeshkovskata.  You  know,  perhaps,  that  half  of  my  life  I 
spent  in  prison  and  in  Siberia. 

Senator  Overman.  How  long  were  you  in  prison  ? 

Mrs.  Beeshkovskata.  Thirty-two  years. 

Senator  Overman.  Thirty-two  years  in  prison  ? 

Mrs.  Breshkovskata.  Yes;  in  prison,  in  exile,  and  at  hard  work, 
altogether,  in  the  hands  of  our  despotism,  for  32  years ;  that  is  all. 

Senator  Overman.  What  is  your  age  now  ? 

Mrs.  Beeshkovskata.  Seventy-five. 

Senator  Wolcott.  For  what  were  you  in  prison  ? 

Mrs.  Breshkovskaya.  For  socialist  propaganda  among  my  people. 
We  have  had  a  dynasty  of  moiiarchs,  who  were  terrible  despots,  in 

Perhaps  you  have  all  heard  that  15  years  ago  I  was  in  America, 
and  I  told  all  that  to  your  citizens. 

Senator  Overman.  How  does  the  condition  of  the  Russian  people 
to-day  compare  with  the  condition  when  you  first  came  over  here? 

Mrs.  Beeshkovskata.  We  Russian  socialists  and  revolutionists 
were  so  happy  to  see  Russia  free  two  years  ago,  and  we  hoped  when 
we  got  quite  free  to  get  excellent  laws  for  her  freedom  all  over 
Russia,  under  the  government  of  Kerensky.  We  got  political  free- 
dom and  personal  and  social  freedom,  and  we  hoped  to  begin  to 
build  the  Russian  State  on  a  new  form.  We  could  do  it,  for  the 
government  was  in  the  hands  of  the  people,  and  all  the  peasants 
and  all  the  workmen  and  all  the  soldiers  were  together  and  accepted 
those  laws.  We  hoped  to  get  land  for  all,  and  the  Kerensky  govern- 
ment wrote  many  times  in  the  papers  and  announced  that  the  people 
ATOukl  get  the  land,  but  that  we  should  wait  until  there  could  be  a 
national  assembly  which  would  confirm  all  these  new  laws.  So  I 
say  that  for  six  months  the  Russian  people  were  free,  and  had  in  their 
hands  every  possibility  to  have  order  and  to  have  freedom,  and  to 
have  land. 

Senator  Overman.  Have  you  freedom  there  now? 

Mrs.  Breshkovkaya.  Perhaps  you  know,  sir,  that  many  years 
ago  the  German  Government  sent  her  spies  over  to  Russia  and  pi'e- 
pared  this  war ;  and  not  only  the  Germans,  but  many  Russians  who 
were  abroad.  When  the  revolution  Avas  on  and  everybody  was  free, 
and  Russia  was  about  to  have  a  constituent  assembly,  out  of  Germany 


came  Lenine  and  Trotsky  with  their  group,  and  all  these  traitors  of 
Russia  came  to  begin  their  propaganda.  Perhaps  you  will  say  it  was 
the  fault  of  our  provisional  government  not  to  take  them  and  put 
them  into  prison.  Perhaps  you  will  say  it ;  but  the  government  was  so 
liberal  and  hoped  to  see  our  people  so  happy  with  new  possibilities, 
that  it  would  not  make  any  arrests.  It  was  too  liberal.  And,  as  vou 
will  remember,  it  was  a  time  of  war,  and  Russia  was  weary  of  this 
war,  and  there  were  20,000,000  Russians,  grown  up  boys  and  men,  who 
were  sent  to  the  front,  and  for  three  years  Russia  was  forced  to  work 
only  for  these  20,000,000,  making  nothing  for  herself.  The  people 
were  tired  and  weary,  and  our  soldiers,  when  they  got  the  propaganda 
from  Germany  and  from  the  Bolsheviki  who  came  into  Russia,  were 
very  glad  to  hear  it.  They  believed  that  the  German  population  were 
brothers  of  our  Russian  soldiers,  that  the  German  soldiers  and  the 
Russian  soldiers  were  brothers,  so  they  had  no  reason  for  continuing 
the  war. 

Then  Lenine  and  Trotsky,  with  the  aid  of  German  money,  over- 
flowed Russia  with  their  propaganda. 

We  also  have  now  many,  many  millions  of  paper  money  printed 
by  Lenine  and  Trotsky,  and  it  is  a  great  misfortune  for  Russia.  All 
the  people  who  served  our  tyrants  in  Russia,  the  old  bureaucratic 
class,  the  gendarmes,  all  those  of  the  old  regime,  became  Bolsheviki, 
and  they  made  a  large  company  who  would  overthrow  the  regime  of 
Kerensky  in  Russia. 

After  October  of  1917,  when  we  saw  that  the  Kerensky  govern- 
ment was  overthrown,  with  all  faithful  servants  of  our  people  we 
immediately  addressed  our  hopes  and  our  prayers  to  our  so-called 
allies.  I  myself,  14  months  ago,  wrote  a  letter  to  the  ambassador  ot 
America,  Mr.  Francis,  exposing  to  him  all  that  was  done;  that  we 
had  no  national  assembly  in  which  people  could  express  their  views ; 
that  it  was  overthrown  by  the  Bolsheviki,  and  instead  we  came  under 
two  gendarmes,  Lenine  and  Trotsky.  Our  people,  believing  perhaps 
at  first  that  they  would  do  some  good,  even  listened  to  them.  Lenine 
said  himself,  "  Nothing  will  be  of  us.  There  will  be  another  czar 
after  the  Bolshe^'iki.    But  a  legend  will  remain  in  Russia  after  us." 

But  now,  these  days,  all  say  Russia  is  in  fault.  I  wrote  to  your 
embassy  in  Russia  that  if  you  would  be  so  good  as  to  give  us  some 
support  (from  50,000  good  soldiers  of  your  armies)  the  Bolsheviki 
would  be  overthrown.    Yet  I  got  no  answer. 

Meanwhile  in  Siberia,  and  over  all  Russia,  the  criminals  were  set 
at  liberty,  and  after  the  Brest-Litovsk  peace  we  got  in  Moscow  two 
mighty  rulers,  Lenine,  and  Gen.  Mirbach  from  Prussia.  He  was 
there,  and  he  was  all  over  Russia.  He  asked  to  get  all  the  Germa.i 
and  Magyar  prisoners  to  be  gathered  and  armed,  to  malce  new  troop.i 
against  Russia.  He  asked,  too,  to  disarm  at  once  the  Czecho-Slovaks, 
who  forced  their  way  to  Vladivostok  to  get  to  France.  Lenine  obeyed 
these  orders  and  sent  troops  to  do  it.  The  Czecho-Slovaks  had  no 
more  desire  to  remain  in  Russia.  They  wished  to  go  to  France.  Rus- 
sia, after  the  Brest-Litovsk  peace,  could  not  use  their  forces,  so  that 
they  tried  to  get  to  Vladivostok,  and  their  little  army  of  80.000  troops 
were  dispersed  over  the  Volga  and  awav  about  Siberia.  Mirbach 
understood  that  this  was  so  much  good  for  those  soldiers  to  j::3i  "> 
France  and  come  back  against  Germany,  so  he  gave  the  order  to^ 


disarm  them.  The  first  troops,  who  were  nearest  to  ^Moscow,  were 
disarmed.  Yet  they  left  some  arms  with  them.  Then  IMirbach 
ordered  to  disarm  tliem  all — every  Czecho-Slovak  soldier. 

Then  came  some  Eed  Guards  from  the  part  of  the  Bolsheviki  out 
of  Moscow,  with  some  oificers,  and  they  asked  the  Czecho-Slovaks  to 
be  disarmed.  The  Czecho-Slovaks  understood  that  if  disarmed  they 
would  be  as  prisoners  and  left  in  Siberia,  and  that  Mirbach  would 
make  of  them  all  he  wished ;  so  they  decided  not  to  go  to  Siberia  and 
not  to  he  disarmed,  but  to  turn  toward  the  west,  and  they  began  to 
fight — these  gallant  soldiers. 

First,  they  took  the  town  of  Nicolaievsk,  and  then  Omsk  and  then 

All  the  time  Lenine  and  Trotsk}'  and  all  the  so-called  Bolsheviki 
were  entertained  and  given  support  from  Germany  by  the  German 
Kaiser  and  liis  Government.  I  do  not  know  if  the  German  people 
were  in  this  complot.  Certainly  German  soldiers,  many  of  them, 
were,  for  they  would  make  show  of  their  brotherhood  to  our  soldiers. 

After  disorder  grew,  after  all  our  factories  and  mills  were  de- 
stroj'ed  in  Moscow  and  Petrograd,  all  our  depots  and  supplies  which 
had  been  provided  by  our  zemst^'o,  by  Kerensky's  government,  all  that 
was  given  to  the  Germans.  The  Bolsheviki  could  not  oppose  in  any 
wav.  They  were  quite  dependent  on  the  German  Government  and 
Mil-bach  and  the  other  German  generals,  for  we  had  no  army,  and  he 
would  have  the  support  of  the  German  Government. 

Senator  Steeling.  Were  German  soldiers  helping  the  Bolsheviki 
against  the  Czecho-Slovaks  ? 

Mrs.  Beeshkovskata.  Help  themi  Against  the  Czecho-Slovaks? 
Certainly,  and  the  Czecho-Slovaks  combated  vtry  well  with  the  Ger- 
man people  and  the  Magyars.  They  hated  them,  yes.  Now  they  are 
entirely  for  themselves,  and  as  they  have  their  own  republic,  they 
would  go  back.  Now  Russia  will  be  left  quite  alone.  Yes ;  if  we  had 
our  own  forces ;  the  Russian  forces  against  the  Bolsheviki.  We  had  no 
organization  to  fight  with  them.  The  Bolsheviki  grew  and  grew  in 
forces.  Idle  men,  who  did  not  have  any  work,  for  all  the  factories 
were  shut,  nolens  volens  became  Bolsheviki,  too,  because  there  was 
nothing  to  eat.  The  industries  were  all  gone.  The  factories  were 
shut,  and  there  was  no  material  to  work  on  and  no  desire  to  work  on 
the  part  of  the  workers.  They  said  all  the  bourgeois  had  to  be  over- 
thrown, and  the  workmen  would  work  alone  to  make  our  industries. 
Not  so  many,  but  a  few,  of  the  Bolsheviki  gave  the  example  of  giving 
the  factories  into  the  hands  of  the  workmen.  In  one  or  two  months  it 
all  was  destroyed.  Nobody  worked,  and  they  could  not  continue  be- 
cause they  were  inexperienced  in  these  matters. 

Our  peasants  alone  are  working  in  the  villages.  There  is  not  any 
industry  since  then.  For  instance,  take  the  coal  mines;  it  is  so  easy 
to  use  them.  But  they  could  not  use  them.  You  must  feel,  yourself, 
the  need  of  the  Russian  people. 

We  ask  you  for  everything.  We  ask  you  to  give  us  paper,  to  give 
us  scissors,  to  give  us  matches,  to  give  us  clothes,  to  give  us  leather  to 
make  boots.  We  ask  everything;  not  because  we  are  so  poor,  but  all 
our  riches  are  under  the  ground.  Russia  is  destroyed  in  industry  and 
husbandry.  There  is  no  industry  at  all.  What'we  need  is  to" have 
handicrafts  in  Russia,  to  have  schools,  and  to  spin  and  weave,  and  to 


make  boots;  because  we  are  naked.  I  am  ashamed  to  expii^ss  myself 
that  we  are  like  mendicants  now;  that  ^^'e  must  ask  everything,'  ever 
things  like  this  [indicating  a  penholder],  but  it  is  so.  Vou'know 
when  you  send  your  Eed  Cross  you  send  your  medicines  and  (•vi>r\ 
sort  of  necessity.  If  you  came  without  your  own  medicines  and  othei 
things,  without  your  clothing,  you  would  do  nothing,  because  there  if 
nothing  to  work  with.  ' 

Also  I  assert  that  the  Bolsheviki  destroyed  Enssia  and  divided  h 
and  corrupted  the  people  of  Russia.  They  turned  loose  on  the  peo- 
ple all  the  criminals  that  were  out  and  in  the  prisons.  They  are  mm 
with  the  Bolsheviki.  They  have  ne\-er  a  yoA  ic-<  com|:0£;:;;l  ^,J  all  h ,.:.  ji 
people.    They  are  the  refuse  of  our  people  in  Euasia. 

And  now  you  ask,  how  does  the  people  support  such  conditions '( 
Dear  me,  our  people  supported  for  300  years  our  desj^otism,  and 
when  15  years  ago  1  was  here  in  America  I  was  asked  ''  If  youi 
despotism  is  so  bad,  why  do  you  people  stand  it?  "  Our  peoi^le  arc 
illiterate.  Our  people  never  had  access  to  the  government ;  never  hac 
sense  to  deal  with  the  political  questions;  ncA-er  were  pei'mitted  tc 
read  papers  where  was  stated  the  truth.  Our  people  are  like  children 
There  is  a  person  here  who  has  spent  three  years  in  Russia,  ami  he 
■says  to  me,  "  Oh,  yes ;  to  understand  the  psychology  of  your  people 
one  must  understand  the  psycholog}'  of  children."  They  are  good- 
hearted  and  openhearted,  and  they  ha^■e  confidence  in  everv'.ue 
especially  in  those  who  after  so  many  hundreds  of  cycles  of  repres- 
sion and  poverty  and  suffering  will  promise  them  to  ha^o  peace,  as 
did  the  Bolsheviki ;  to  have  bread,  to  have  schools,  to  have  everything 
They  did  believe  it.  Now.  they  do  not  believe  anyone.  But  thcic  i; 
nothing  now  to  have.  And  after  that,  I  do  not  hope  that  any  of  oui 
allies  will  be  so  generous — I  will  say  so  bold — as  to  give  us  armed 
help.    I  do  not  hope. 

I  see  everybody"  is  so  much  involved  with  their  own  affairs  and  in- 
terests, that  Russia  is  left  alone.  Yet  the  Russian  people  woidd  be 
raised  up  by  those  who  would  give  them  help,  Avho  would  give  them 
tokens  of  their  friendship  not  only  with  words  and  not  only  with 
promises,  but  with  real  help ;  to  secure  our  railroads,  for  instance;  tc 
have  for  us  school  books ;  to  have  for  us  merchandise  and  several  sorts 
of  machines;  for  our  peasants  began  to  be  accustomed  t"  have 
machines  out  of  Germany  and  out  of  America.  Now,  we  have  none 
at  all.  All  that  wc  had  before  is  used  up,  now.  For  five  years  we 
have  not  been  working  for  ourselves;  for  five  years,  three  years  with 
Germany  and  noAv  two  years  in  civil  war.  Lenine  and  Trotsky  prom- 
ised to  make  peace  and  to  have  peace  in  Russia,  a'^d  after  their  peace 
with  the  Germans  in  Brest-Litovsk  they  said.  "  We  will  rec-.niSLruct 
Russia  ";  and  when  German  troops  came  into  west  Russia,  and  made 
every  sort  of  disorder,  then  Trotsky  exclaimed,  "  We  shall  have  a 
crusade  against  Germany:  "  yet  in  tw,o  weeks  Lenir.c  made  a  decla- 
ration, "  We  are  not  so  "foolish  as  to  begin  again  to  make  vrar  with 
somebody,  for  certainly  otherwise  our  efforts  to  deepen  and  dcoi)en 
the  revolution  would  fail,"  and  instead  of  beginning  to  make  war 
with  the  German  people,  they  began  to  make  civil  war  in  Russia ; 
and  instead  of  having  one  front,  between  Russia  and  Germany,  we 
have  now,  I  will  not  say  five,  but  I  will  say  hundreds  of  fronts  all 
over  Russia,  for  everywhere  we  have  gangs  and  bands.     Now.  the 


people,  being  starving,  being  naked,  they  will  go  and  serve  Trotsky 
or  any  leader  or  any  general,  who  will  make  them  brigands.  Here 
they  turn  around,  and  Avith  Germans,  and  others,  prisoners  of  Russia, 
all  Eussia  is  robbed,  and  all  Russia  has  nothing  now,  and  all  Russia 
will  fight,  perhaps,  for  many  years  among  themselves,  before  they 
get  out  of  this  boiling  pot,  and  will  find  out  an  issue  for  themselves. 

1  will  not  say  anybody  is  in  fault,  no;  but  we  are  left  alone,  and 
we  do  not  now  hope  to  get  any  support  from  any  side.  It  will  be 
very  hard  for  us  to  fight  in  our  own  countiy  for  five,  six,  I  do  not 
know  how  many  years,  before  we  begin  to  be  reasonable  and  strong- 
minded,  and  understand  our  own  interests. 

Yes,  the  people  is  depressed,  morally  and  spiritually  depressed ;  and 
it  is  not  so  fresh,  you  know,  not  at  all.  Depressed,  the  people  is.  And 
now  bolshevism  will  not  be  finished  in  Russia  so  soon,  for  we  see  now 
that  it  spreads  more  and  more  around  Russia.  When  I  was  talking 
to  one  member  of  our  elected  government.  Gen.  Boldoreff,  he  said, 
"  See.  in  some  years  we  are  going  to  give  help  and  restore  order  in 
Europe."  Certainly,  Russia  shall  help  herself,  and  have  rest  and 
order,  and  then  it  is  quite  sure  that  this  venom  of  Bolshevism  will  die 
out.  You  in  America,  you  mix  together  Bolshevism  and  socialism.  I 
have  been  a  socialist  for  50  years,  and  1  wished  to  get  my  people  free, 
and  have  all  political  rights  in  Russia;' and  when  two  years  ago  we 
got  them,  then  I  would  say  to  myself,  '"  Now  we  will  construct,  and 
not  destroj\  We  will  construct;  we  Avill  raise  our  people  and  build 
and  construct  and  create,  to  make  a  beautiful  place  out  of  Russia." 
And  the  Bolsheviki  are  now  saying,  "  We  must  destroy,  and  destroy, 
and  destroy." 

I  have  a  letter  from  one  of  m}''  young  partners  who  brought  his 
wife  from  Petrograd  to  ^Vladivostok.  Everywhere  where  the  Bolshe- 
viki are,  there  are  no  intelligent  people;  there  is  no  intelligence;  all 
killed  or  hidden,  for  they  destroyed  not  only  our  factories  and  our 
mills,  and  not  only  our  schools,  but  they  destroyed,  they  killed,  all  the 
intelligent  people,  the  best  professors,  the  best  professional  men,  the 
best  men  we  had  in  Russia,  hundreds  of  them;  and  I  myself  was 
hidden  for  two  months  in  Petrograd,  and  for  six  months  in  Moscow 
before  I  left  it.  Thousands  of  old  socialists,  revolutionists,  are  killed 
by  the  Bolsheviki  as  being  reactionary  and  counter-revolutionists. 

Senator  Overman.  Why  did  you  hide^ 

jMrs.  Breshkovskava.  Oh.  dear  me !  I  was  illegal  in  Eussia.  I 
have  friends  who  hid  me.  I  expected  to  live  in  Russia,  in  this  part 
where  there  are  not  Bolsheviki,  and  to  work  with  my  iDeasants.  Our 
peasants  aie  everywhere;  and  evcrj'  peasant  is  so  tired  of  tlie  Bol- 
shevism that  he  only  says. "'  If  only  some  good  people  would  come  and 
rescue  us !  "  Very  oiten  I  have  said,  "  For  shame  !  You  ask  help  of 
them,  and  you  ask  the  American  people.  Why  do  you  not  help  your- 
selves? "  "  Oh,  we  are  so  tired;  and  we  are  disarmed."  You  see,  the 
(yerman  Government  was  so  clever,  had  so  much  foresight ;  and  all 
our  soldiers  who  were  discharged  were  disarmed  before  this  coup 

Senator  Sterling.  So  that  the  peasants  had  no  arms '. 

Mrs.  Beeshkovskaya.  \o  ?rnis,  no  powder.  They  were  without 
anv  arri-s.     And  the  Bolsheviki  have  all  things. 


I  will  finish  my  speech  by  repeating  what  I  have  said,  if  you 
Americans  could  help  us  and  aid  us  to  have  in  Eussia  a  national  con- 
stituent assembly,  it  would  appease  all  the  people.  When  it  is  said 
that  you  Americans  do  not  know  how  you  can  act,  it  is  not  essential,  to 
my  mind.  You  could  act ;  and  in  Eussia  you  can  not  understand  how 
it  is.  It  is  quite  simple.  We  are  an  original  people,  perhaps; 
but  we  need  what  all  other  people  need.  We  need  order ;  we  need  to 
work ;  we  need  political  freedom ;  we  need  all  that  is  due  to  every  free 
nationality;  a  quite  democratic  government;  not,  as  they  claim,  any 
Lenine  and  Trotslcy,  but  a  government  elected  by  the  people. 

We  must  have  good  transportation.  We  have  now  none.  Also,  we 
must  have  schools. 

Maj.  Httmes.  Which  government  treated  the  i^eople  of  Eussia  the 
best,  the  old  regime  government  or  the  Trotsky-Lenine  government  ? 

Mrs.  Bkeshkovskaya.  Ah,  perhaps  many  people  are  now,  espe- 
cially among  the  peasants,  calling  for  the  Czar  again.  They  were 
denied  paper  and  newspapers  and  education,  but  they  could  work; 
and  that  is  now  impossible.  Everywhere  we  have  fighting  fronts,  and 
everywhere  the  people  are  persecuted,  and  everywhere  we  have  Sov- 
iets, and  the  Soviets  are  composed  of  people  sent  out  from  Petrograd 
and  Moscow,  that  rule  the  district.  Certainly  the  mindful  would 
never  have  a  tsar  again;  never,  never!  Even  the  most  of  the 
people  never  would  have  him  again ;  and  we  will  fight  until  we  have 
a  democratic  government.  But  when  we  compare  this  view  with  the 
conditions  under  Lenine  and  Trotslcy,  if  it  would  endure  twenty 
years,  for  instance,  Eussia  would  be  dead.  The  people  would  be  kept 

Senator  Nelson.  Do  you  believe  that  Lenine  and  Trotslcy  were  the 
tools  of  Germany  ? 

Mrs.  Beeshkovskaya.  I  do  not  believe  it ;  I  am  sure  of  it,  sir. 

Senator  Nelson.  Do  you  believe  that  they  received  German  money  ? 

Mrs.  Beeshkovskaya.  Yes.  They  also  make  this  paper  money  and 
flood  Eussia  with  it.  Every  pood  of  our  rye  bread  now  costs  500  or 
600  rubles. 

Senator  Nelson.  Do  you  believe  that  the  bolshevik  government  of 
Lenine  and  Trotsky  is  a  tyranny  and  a  danger  and  a  menace  to 
Eussia  ? 

Mrs.  Beeshkovskaya.  It  is.  But  more  than  a  danger,  it  is  destroy- 
ing Eussia.     It  is  on  the  verge  of  being  quite  destroyed. 

Senator  Nelson.  Do  you  believe  that  this  government  will  be  de- 
tructive  of  the  liberties  of  the  Eussian  people  ?  _ 

Mrs.  Beeshkovskaya.  Alrea,dy  we  have  no  liberty  in  Eyssia.  No 
newspapers  except  the  bolshevik  newspapers  are  permitted,  sir,  and 
therefore  you  read  only  bolshevik  newspapers.  There  are  no  universi- 
ties no  colleges,  and  no  schools.  All  of  them  are